Damn, People! So the bond was reduced and has another 10 days to come up with the dough.

[mobeau69]

The judgement still stands. In the end he will lose. In fact, he already has lost. He’s Donald Trump. Everyone he would like admiration from hates his guts. He has a lock on the worst president in history. Who would trade places with a traitor? Not me.

[Ocelot II]

1. Why is there all this weeping and wailing about the reduced appeal bond requirement?

He's still on the hook for the entire judgment, $450M with interest accruing at $111,000 per day. We don't even know yet if he'll be able to get a bond in 10 days. If he does, the state gets the money if he loses the appeal (and he will) without having to go through the protracted and complicated procedures involved in attaching assets in that amount, and he's still liable for the rest of it. If he doesn't get the bond, the AG can go ahead and execute on the entire judgment. In ten days he'll owe another million bucks because of the interest. Even if the appeal takes a year (not likely, but possible), that's another $40 million.

He's not in a good place. I'm not bothered by this development at all.

[onenote]

3. Right. And the judge shaming around here is despicable.

Last edited Mon Mar 25, 2024, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)

I've seen several posts speculating that the judges are federalist society pawns, have been bought, are republicans ( because, it is asserted, all judges are "pro-republican" ), that they should be impeached. And so on and so forth.

These are the five DEMOCRATS that issued todays order, all appointed by DEMOCRATIC governors.

Presiding Judge Dianne Renwick, a Black jurist who previously served as a staff attorney for the Legal Aid Society.

Anil Singh, a judge born in India who immigrated to the US, went to Antioch Law School, and prior to becoming a judge worked for another judge who started out representing criminal defendants for the Legal Aid Society.

Lizbeth Gonzalez, a Latina judge who previously served as Visiting attorney for the Puerto Rican Legal Defense & Education Fund and as a
Senior attorney for MFY Legal Services (aka Mobilization for Justice, an organization providing legal services to low-income New Yorkers).

Bahaati Pitt-Burke, a Black jurist who previously worked for the Legal Aid Society.

Kelly O'Neill Levy, previously served as a principal law clerk to the late Judge Rose Rubin, one of the first women to become a New York judge and also served on the Board of Directors of the Women’s Bar Association and the Board of Trustees of the Community Service Society of New York.

[Think. Again.]

8. They will need to release some very realistic and inarguable explanation...

...as to why they would reduce any amount of money that a man FOUND GUILTY OF FRAUD needs to put up to secure he doesn't skip out on the judgement somehow, if they expect people to respect this decision.

That's what the bond amount is for, to secure the judgement, because he is proven to be untrustworthy AND A FRAUD.

[Ocelot II]

11. He wasn't convicted of anything. This was a civil trial in which he and his company

were found liable to the state of New York for fraudulent business practices. If a choice has to be made between securing part of the judgment vs. securing none of it, wouldn't it make sense to secure some of it?

[Think. Again.]

16. There is no choice...

...he can obviously secure the full judgement even it takes selling everything he has and garnishng future income.

Edit add: I changed "convicted of" to "found guilty of" if the semantics matter so much.

[Ocelot II]

18. It's not a matter of semantics. There's a very significant difference between

guilt in a criminal case and liability in a civil case, and too many people don't seem to understand that difference.

[Think. Again.]

22. This is a chat board and I am just bitching. No, it doesn't matter if I mistakenly said convicted.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

44. Yeah. It does matter.

[Think. Again.]

48. Oh stop! really! you're making me blush! hee-hee! (my words don't matter against that major fraudster).

[Think. Again.]

62. Ha! for a moment I thought I was in a Law School chat room by mistake!...

...so, let's be who we are, civilians discussing a public court case, and not pretend we're Judge Judy.

Also, could you supply a link to where you found that 40-60% info please?

[Ocelot II]

10. Thank you! These occasionally hysterical screeds

about judges who did something we, the hive-mind, disagree with, perceiving that thing to be for the benefit and possible behest of, and maybe even as a payoff by, Trump, are discouraging. But be prepared to be dragged and called an apologist for a corrupt system if you speak in defense of any result or procedure or judge that seemed to give Trump an advantage, even if it didn't. Like this one, which will make little difference in the long run, and will at least provide some security for the judgment where there was none previously.

[Think. Again.]

23. But there was security previously...

$467million worth of it.

Sure, it would have to be collected but there are working class people who have jobs that do that.

[Ocelot II]

26. There's the same amount now as there was previously. The only difference

is that Trump couldn't get an appeal bond for the entire judgment, which was therefore completely unsecured, so the AG would have to commence proceedings to execute on the judgment by seizing properties. A reduced appeal bond, assuming he can get one, means that the $175M amount of the bond would become immediately available to the state in cash if (when) he loses the appeal, and the AG would have to chase only the remaining amount.

[Think. Again.]

29. Yes, commence proceedings to collect what's owed...

...it happens every day.

Securing only 1/3 of what a person found guily of FRAUD owes is irresponsible at best.

[Ocelot II]

30. So if no surety company will issue even the reduced bond, what happens then?

AG James will go ahead and commence the process of seizing assets, just as she was intending to do starting today, is what will happen. Nothing changes.

[Think. Again.]

34. So why bother reducing it? Leave the security bond at the amount owed....

....why bring any other amount into it?

[Ocelot II]

36. Because he couldn't get a bond for the full amount.

He might be able to get one for $175M, and that amount, at least, would ensure that the state would immediately recover that amount instead of having to chase his assets. There seems to be a lot of confusion about the reason for an appeal bond, which is to protect the ability of the winning party to recover the judgment they won at trial while the losing party appeals. It benefits the loser only to the extent that he doesn't have to deal with post-appeal proceedings in aid of execution, which would be the AG taking more depositions and basically suing him to get his property. But he still has to pay up at the end one way or the other; the bond only means that if he doesn't, the surety pays the state - but then the surety comes after him, and they have better lawyers and deeper pockets. No matter how this shakes down, Trump hasn't won anything.

[Think. Again.]

39. So what if he can't get a bond for it...

...that's why the state of NY has the option to seize.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

46. Thank you for that

thorough explanation.

[Think. Again.]

50. Seems more like a ruse to me, not an explanation of anything.

[TwilightZone]

73. The explanation was quite clear.

It's $175 million less that the state has to go after if the appeals fail. I'm not sure why that's seemingly so difficult to understand.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

45. And called...

...a cheerleader.

[bdamomma]

20. Wow

very impressive credentials.

Thanks for posting.

[yellowdogintexas]

7. I think we are all just exhausted and frustrated with everything related to this

abomination.
I am having one of those days when I would like to be somewhere without media.

[Aristus]

38. Definitely.

We all are. Every time I scroll through Facebook, even when Trump is not the subject, all the comedy memes and non sequiturs are about how tired, exhausted, and without hope everyone is. It's been this way for years. I'm convinced our national ennui is due almost entirely to the existence of that chuzzlewit, and everything his elevation to the White House has meant for us as a nation.

We seem utterly without hope or optimism.

And I think that would heal rapidly starting the day he dies.

Let that be very soon...

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

54. Damned hamberders been slackin' on that cholesterol production

You fuckers better start gettin' results or when I hear 'National Hamburger Day' next year, my impulse will be to spit.

[BlueKota]

77. I don't drink alcohol because of my BP and depression drugs,

but I plan on busting out the 🍾 on that day and having a few sips.

I also might sing ding dong the bastard's gone.

[Alliepoo]

31. Ocelot- I'd give you a big ((HUG)) if I could!

Last edited Mon Mar 25, 2024, 05:42 PM - Edit history (1)

I really needed to hear that. It made me feel very much better. I didn’t understand all of it and was feeling pretty darn defeated. I’m so sick of that nasty orange lump evading justice. Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate you!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

47. Agree!

I send hugs, too!

[marble falls]

2. I guarantee TFG's lawyer had two checks in their satchel. I for $500k and another for $175K.

[sop]

33. Knowing Trump, he may come back in ten days and try to renegotiate a lower bond amount.

I recall reading a Trump interview years ago (don't have a link) where he bragged about doing just that: agreeing to a deal, then coming back days later and renegotiating.

[Voltaire2]

4. Perhaps because the stinky sick fuck keeps getting special treatment?

[republianmushroom]

5. Just more delays. The name is trump, donald trump.

38 months and counting

[Ocelot II]

13. Delay is not his friend in this case. Interest is accumulating at the rate of $111K per day.

In the ten days he was given to secure the bond he will owe another $1 million in interest.

[angrychair]

76. Delay is always his friend

Even the courts have their limits to deal with certain people.
In Maddow's podcast/book "Ultra" she tells the real life tale of just that. The accused created so many delays and so much chaos in the courts that one judge actually died from the stress and the replacement judge became increasingly overwhelmed and it eventually ended it in a mistrial.
Texas AG Ken Paxton had 10+ year delay in his trial that appears to be ending in a plea deal.

I think trump will relentlessly hammer the courts with motions and appeals and drag this out for years. I mean we are still months away from even the juy selection phase and everything I've read have said it could take several months or more to empanel a jury. Then there are likely more opportunities for delay in there as well. I would not be surprised if the criminal trials eventually end in mistrial. I even doubt the NY appeal for that civil judgement will happen this year. He will figure out some way of delaying it.
Delays are very much in his favor.

[FarPoint]

6. It does not bother me ...

Every minute he is accumulating debt...lawyer fees, other business loans, cost of his property care and management, payment to employees ..etc. DEBT.....the bond was lowered but does not decrease the ultimate $475 million he still owes... I myself want the trial to stay on schedule now ..

[Think. Again.]

9. And every day that the working people of the U.S. watch him flying around....

...to his estates and golf courses builds the opinion that justice is B.S. and there's no reason to be a good citizen.

[a kennedy]

42. Justice for a privileged white fat ass mother fawker..........and sorry, JMHO.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

51. That's ridiculous

Anyone "watching" him sees he is a worthless sack of traitorous shit.

If that compels anyone to commit crimes, they can go to prison, too.

[Think. Again.]

52. Yes, everyone should think just like you.

[BlueKota]

79. And still be allowed to run for President, and who has six people who still might grant him absolute immunity.

[Torchlight]

12. His world is slowly squeezing him into nothingness

and there's not much he can do except throw embarrassing fits of child-like rage.



Though the consistent, flaccid non-sequiturs regarding his eventual and absolute victory on this does get almost (almost) as annoying as his voice.

[0rganism]

70. Key word: slowly

Frankly the 10 days worry me more than the bond reduction

[jimfields33]

80. Deep.

[Caliman73]

14. Until that 10 days is up and he asks for another 10 days and less money...and possibly gets it

and then again, and again...

Justice delayed is justice denied.

People are responding because a nominally rich person, who is a significant threat to democracy (not because he is so smart and capable but because he is being propped up by an entire network of rich people with power), continues to delay justice.

If he didn't have the money or status that was given to him, he'd have already been in prison many times over. People are frustrated that we have a tiered justice system (and not in the way that idiot Conservatives say). People with money and power are WAY less likely to be put into prison, or face any significant consequences for crimes that would lock away middle class and working class people for decades.

That is the frustration.

[appmanga]

17. This indicates the Court of Appeals...

...is already inclined to reduce the amount of disgorgement, but it's insane to do it by half prior to any hearing. Maybe the judge issuing the order has dreams of becoming one of Orange Mussolini's federal judges.

[Caliman73]

19. I think there is more to it than that...

There may be some thought about the appeals process and having the matter overturned based on excessiveness or something. The problem is that it still speaks to how people with perceived wealth and status are considered at every step where people like us are often railroaded into stiffer sentences because we cannot afford attorneys who can use every loophole and argument to delay the process.

[onenote]

25. Try reading post # 3 and then think about reconsidering your comment about the judges issuing this order

It's judges, not a single judge. Its five judges, all first elected to be trial level judges running as Democrats and defeating Republicans and then getting appointed to the appellate division by Democratic governors. Every single one of them has impeccable credentials.

[appmanga]

32. As someone who grew up, lived, and cut some teeth in New York politics...

...and knowing how malleable these folks tend to be, the only reconsideration I have is it was a panel.

[Ocelot II]

28. It doesn't change the amount of the final judgment, and it doesn't mean

the court of appeals is likely to reduce that amount. Check out post #3, above, and then tell me these judges are in Trump's pocket.

These are the five DEMOCRATS that issued today's order, all appointed by DEMOCRATIC governors.

Presiding Judge Dianne Renwick, a Black jurist who previously served as a staff attorney for the Legal Aid Society.

Anil Singh, a judge born in India who immigrated to the US, went to Antioch Law School, and prior to becoming a judge worked for another judge who started out representing criminal defendants for the Legal Aid Society.

Lizbeth Gonzalez, a Latina judge who previously served as Visiting attorney for the Puerto Rican Legal Defense & Education Fund and as a Senior attorney for MFY Legal Services (aka Mobilization for Justice, an organization providing legal services to low-income New Yorkers).

Bahaati Pitt-Burke, a Black jurist who previously worked for the Legal Aid Society.

Kelly O'Neill Levy, previously served as a principal law clerk to the late Judge Rose Rubin, one of the first women to become a New York judge and also served on the Board of Directors of the Women’s Bar Association and the Board of Trustees of the Community Service Society of New York.

[appmanga]

15. It may be a small thing...

...but it makes me cringe every time (and it happens a couple of times nearly every day) someone making a wonderful point spells "loose" for lose.

[mobeau69]

21. Thanks. Fixed it.

[Kennah]

24. Dark Brandon in a future ad

"Trump couldn't pay the $464 million bond, even though he said he had over $500 million in cash. The appeals court reduced it to $175, and he still could not pay it. Bill Gates, one of the founders of Microsoft, and a real billionaire, has donated billions of dollars to charity. Not a joke. Bill Gates is the real deal. Donald Trump is a fake."

[Shermann]

27. I have to believe NY didn't really want the headache of seizing property

That's just really messy compared to getting a check, to say nothing of the optics. Maybe less is more here.

[Think. Again.]

35. Nonsense, there are people whose jobs are to do that every day.

[Shermann]

37. There are also people whose job it is to clean sewage spills and put out dumpster fires.

That doesn't mean we want them putting in any overtime.

[Think. Again.]

40. You're really going out on a limb....

....a person has been found guilty of fraud for a certain amount, that amount needs to be secured if they want to appeal or collected if they don't.

Period.

Securing anything less than the judgement amount against FRAUD is irresponsible at best.

[Shermann]

41. So, these five Democrat judges have gone rogue and are acting against NY state's best interests.

That or they worked out a prudent compromise.

Who's out on a limb exactly?

[Think. Again.]

43. Being a Democrat doesn't bestow sainthood (Joe Manchin?)...

The guy was found guilty of massive, ongoing, financial FRAUD.

You think the court should just trust him to pay his debt???? The full amount of the judgement should be secured or paid.

[onenote]

56. If you knew anything at all about these five judges, you wouldn't compare them to Joe Manchin.

I hope.

Presiding Judge Dianne Renwick, a Black jurist who previously served as a staff attorney for the Legal Aid Society.

Anil Singh, a judge born in India who immigrated to the US, went to Antioch Law School, and prior to becoming a judge worked for another judge who started out representing criminal defendants for the Legal Aid Society.

Lizbeth Gonzalez, a Latina judge who previously served as Visiting attorney for the Puerto Rican Legal Defense & Education Fund and as a
Senior attorney for MFY Legal Services (aka Mobilization for Justice, an organization providing legal services to low-income New Yorkers).

Bahaati Pitt-Burke, a Black jurist who previously worked for the Legal Aid Society.

Kelly O'Neill Levy, previously served as a principal law clerk to the late Judge Rose Rubin, one of the first women to become a New York judge and also served on the Board of Directors of the Women’s Bar Association and the Board of Trustees of the Community Service Society of New York.

All five got their start by being elected by the people of New York City, as Democratic Party candidates, to be lower court judges. Subsequently, each was appointed to the appellate division by a Democratic governor.

[Think. Again.]

58. I did not compare anyone to anyone...

...I pointed out that being registered as a Democrat does not bestow sainthood, and used Joe Manchin as an example of my opinion that he is not exactly respectable as a Democrat. That should be clear from statements.

I feel I'm being hounded for nothing more than stating an opinion upthread related to the OP.

Please stop.

[TwilightZone]

68. Why would anyone bother to learn anything about them?

When we can just lump them in with judges like Cannon?

They're all the same, aren't they?

I am, of course, being facetious. Looking at context isn't exactly a popular activity around here sometimes.

[Think. Again.]

61. I can't seem to verify your assertion that NYS appeals bonds are standardized at 40-60%...

...can you supply a link please?

[mcar]

67. How about you give us some excerpts?

Many of us don't have time to check out and verify your assertions. It's kind of up to you to do that with not only links, but some actual facts.

Thanks.

[mcar]

71. Still need to see some proof of that, thanks. nt

[Ptah]

74. Here:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/mar/22/donald-trump/trumps-454-million-bond-for-new-york-fraud-case-is/

James’ office sent PolitiFact examples of companies in civil litigation cases in a variety of jurisdictions posting bonds of $1 billion or more on appeal. They include a $1 billion bond for Samsung in 2014, a $1 billion bond for Cox Communications in 2021, and a $1.3 billion bond for SAP, a German software company, in 2011.

-snip-

A closer example is Marvell Semiconductor, a company that manufactures computer circuits. Its parent company has $5.5 billion in annual revenue, and it posted a $1.5 billion bond in 2014 over a patent infringement lawsuit brought by Carnegie Mellon University.

[Xolodno]

49. I'm not surprised.

And I also fully expect the judgement amount will go down later on appeal.

Coughing up a half a billion bond from a surety company wasn't going to happen. And seizing assets can get messy and complex, not to mention costly. Particularly if you have to return some. He probably has the collateral for the latest amount.

I know many here wanted to him squirm and cry while watching police taking furniture out of his NY condo, but that was too much of a pipe dream. Ages ago, Pepsi somehow missed a lawsuit and the judge awarded full damages and then some when they didn't show up for court. It got appealed and eventually settled for much less. Just how it works.

[Aussie105]

53. It is what it is.

Adjust your expectations and keep watching.

Like most here, I'd like to see Trump demolished without possible recovery, but it's a slow process.

My expectations?

I'd prefer to have seen him dragged off to jail a long time ago, and all references to him in the media permanently stilled and past references deleted, but yeah - expectations, patience, and that sort of thing.

Things may feel better and more balanced when all this plays out.

[pecosbob]

63. The Court overturned the ban on Trump and his boys from doing business in NY.

Few here seem to have noticed this. The bond reduction and grace period don't bother me, but overturning the ban does bother me.

[onenote]

64. They stayed it from going into effect during the appeal. They did not 'overturn' it.

[pecosbob]

65. That's what I was looking for...media reports are light on substance at times.

[republianmushroom]

81. Yup, and another 10 day delay.

And equal justice for all.