Just putting this thought out there regarding tugboats and big ships

[Stinky The Clown]

Tugboats most usually get a big ship out away from the pier and on its way out under its own steam.

The tragedy in Baltimore shows how this works well . . . . until it doesn't. Two tugs pulled Dali off her berth, turned her 180, cast off and tooted buhbye. Had they continued on for another 15 or 20 minutes, yesterday might have been a slow news day., with the worst case maybe being a very local story about a big ship run aground

How about we require tugs for ships over some certain size (determined by the individual ports) to get the ship out into open water before they cast off.

Given what we now know about the Key Bridge disaster, it is quite likely had the tugs stayed with the Dali they would have prevented all this.

Given the number of containers on the Dali, this added cost would be pennies per imported TV or car, or any other item of freight. Assuming more or less standard rates, a two tug tow for a ship like the Dali could be $60-70,000. A single tug assist for a much smaller ship might be $4-5,000.
https://www.morantug.com/Customer-Content/www/ports-and-operations/Files/Moran_Baltimore_Schedule_of_Rates_Terms_and_Conditions_07_15_23.pdf

Making greater use of tugs and making them mandatory might be a good was to minimize to some degree the danger of these behemoth ships in ports that were never designed for them.

[elleng]

1. 'about we require tugs for ships over some certain size,' you mean REGULATION???

Thanks for the suggestion; won't be the first or last; fairly large part of what made this country what it is.

'The Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) was a regulatory agency in the United States created by the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887. The agency's original purpose was to regulate railroads (and later trucking) to ensure fair rates, to eliminate rate discrimination, and to regulate other aspects of common carriers, including interstate bus lines and telephone companies. Congress expanded ICC authority to regulate other modes of commerce beginning in 1906. Throughout the 20th century, several of ICC's authorities were transferred to other federal agencies. The ICC was abolished in 1995, and its remaining functions were transferred to the Surface Transportation Board.' >>>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Commerce_Commission

[Upthevibe]

6. elleng.......

The first thing I thought of was "but that would mean regulations." The policies that would make us all safer and prevent crises but nooooooooooooooo......those horrible regulations.

I think the keep the government our of my business mentality has kind of lost its "credibility" since the overturning of Roe V Wade.

[elleng]

8. Yes and more than that case,

enabling unlimited $$$, and enabling lies/untruths 2 that cross my mind.

[LiberalFighter]

33. If they don't want government regulation.

1) Find a business that doesn't require government regulation.

or

2) Go someplace else that doesn't require government regulation.

[RainCaster]

2. That's not a bad idea

Of course it would be different for every port, but if each port would review all the potential "what if" scenarios, that could work.

Similar arrangements are already made for ships pilots.

[OAITW r.2.0]

3. Talking with my bro last night. We can't understand why the tugs don't stay with the ships through a bridge like this,

[Kennah]

11. I'm betting money is the answer

[2naSalit]

19. That was...

Probably my first thought. Where were the tugs?

It rally makes sense with such a busy port to have a more secure manner for them the traverse the bridge underpass as well.

[amerikat]

4. This is NY State canal tug.

But I love the name.
?w=490

[SnarkSavant]

5. Skeptical until more is learned.

Big ass ship moving is a big ass ship moving and it's a big ass body in motion. It ain't a car that you slam the brakes on. Would love to know the speed, weight and displacement before I would speculate on what ifs.

[elleng]

9. 8 mph, for one thing.

[Thunderbeast]

36. Speed is required in order to navigate

[Hassin Bin Sober]

16. Two tugs plus the ship's power plant means three power plants to rely on.

Did I hear the big ship only had one screw?

Seems like more redundancy around this critical infrastructure would be warranted.

[2naSalit]

20. That's what I heard....

On a video of a harbor watcher who was analyzing the event right away. He started with a description of the vessel and I recall the he said it had a single prop.

[FBaggins]

28. Common for large cargo vessels

Fuel efficiency

[Marcus IM]

35. Tugs don't pull from the bow nor push from the stern. They control the direction after the docks. They steer big ships.

Maybe in narrow canals they pull and push from the bow and stern, but large container ships in a harbor, no.
There's lots of harbor tug vids around.
You'll see that they attach lines to the big ship to control the direction of forward (or backward) motion by pushing or pulling from the sides. The container ship propels itself forward. The harbor tugs have extremely powerful twin engines to steer the ships attached by ropes.

This is done at the direction of the harbor pilots who are aboard the ship.

Only very large open ocean tugs directly pull ships across the water. They are not the same as harbor tugs.

[Ptah]

7. If only the professionals had consulted you.

You could have prevented this by telling them.

[Marcus IM]

12. Which ones? The bottom line professionals? n/t

[Ptah]

13. The people that have sailed under that bridge for forty years.

[cachukis]

10. Modernity. Ships are now guided by computers.

My nephew designs software for robotic ships.
Even had tugboats released the ship after it had passed the bridge a power failure in an incoming tide would be the conversation.
We have a zillion vehicles transporting a zillion things.
The accident rate is negligible.
This one was spectacular.
Safety response, overall, was topnotch.
The real test will be in the resolution.
This is the big time that will resolve any competence issues in the administration.
Impressive was the response today in front of the press and the world.
The world will be watching.
Mayor Pete needs to be doing daily and then weekly updates like the Covid response.
Remember Ted Koppel. We all do.

[FHRRK]

18. Great post

The real test will be in the resolution.

So far the response has been great by the Biden Admin.

But damn, we need to get people to focus. (and the Media is our enemy)

The root cause will be determined, the proper corrective action will be the issue. With that, Repugs will fight it every step of the way.

[Bev54]

14. The tugs did their job by getting the ship out of port and into the shipping lane, where the pilot

takes over. This is the same in most countries.

[Marcus IM]

34. Nope. Harbor pilots board outbound ships from the dock. Most harbors require tugs all the way to the harbor exit.

Harbor pilots exit outbound ships at the harbor exits in most cases.
Baltimore is an exception.

Also, Harbor Pilots don't run nor maintain the engines.

[mopinko]

15. could station a tug or 2 near the bridge. there if there's a mayday, or if they're needed farther in.

prolly a plum job for some crony’s kid, but i’ll allow it.
let em troll for trash if there’s nothing to do.

[AkFemDem]

31. What would that have accomplished?

There was 90 seconds from Mayday to full collapse, a tug or two near the bridge wouldn’t actually do anything except possibly be another casualty in an event like this. They’re not going to rig tow lines and gain control of the vessel and steer away in 90 seconds.

[FHRRK]

17. Far from a knowledgeable person on this, and Far is not representitive, it is Far, far, far, far, far, far. With that

I believe in the Port of Long Beach and Los Angeles the 'pilots' take them out past the breakwater to open seas prior to turning the ship over.
Not sure if that would have helped having a local take them under the bridge, but it seems logical that a local is more familiar and more experienced in navigating the ports and would be more responsive to emergency situations. For example the shit hits the fan and you have trained a couple dozen locals on emergency procedures compared to generic procedures in multiple languages for thousands of Captains.

Btw, I believe these port 'pilots' make over 200k per year. Could see some Execs being pissed off that some HS Graduates are getting paid to guide the ships out of the Ports. Damn bonus on their 2 million dollar salary was impacted by the uneducated takers.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

21. good idea

[Hermit-The-Prog]

22. How about protect the foundation of the bridge with concrete bumpers (dolphins)?

[mopinko]

38. it has them, but minimal number.

this hit at an odd angle, hit the corner of the support. few places have a barrier at the corner. usually they just protect the sides.
suspect there will b a minimum required going forward. like 8. no exactly a mission to the moon.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

39. I think the Sunshine Skyway should have been enough warning...

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/key-bridge-dolphins-fender-protection-3LZVAL7HDVHBXAEF4G5LBFWZHE/

https://www.tampabay.com/news/pinellas/2024/03/28/sunshine-skyway-baltimore-bridge-collapse-dolphins-barriers/

[Emile]

23. In the Navy we used tug boats to bring our

larger ships in and out of Mayport Naval Station. One time coming back from Guantanamo Bay, Cuba the captain not wanting to wait on a pilot and tug boats thought he could pilot the ship into port. He ended up grounding the ship on a sand bar at the mouth of the St. John's river. We had to wait hours for high tide so tug boats could pull us off the sand bar and guide us safely into port. I think the captain got into a lot of trouble over that.

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Our captain hit the pilings in the degassing range in Charleston harbor

He broke two pilings and put the range out of commission for a while.

Meanwhile we returned to our berth with a huge scar across our port bow numbers. Lots of pointing and laughing.

[Omnipresent]

27. That's strange..

The ship didn’t have sonar to know how deep the water was, it was traveling in?

[Emile]

32. I'm sure it did. But a large ship 530 foot long

where was the transducer located? It did happen.

[Stinky The Clown]

40. Do you know what a degassing range is?

[Fla Dem]

25. I know nothing about tugboating even though my cousin was a TB Captain in Boston on the Mystic river.

But I agree, it would make so much sense for the tugboats to maintain control on a huge ship until it clears all possible obstructions and is in clear water ahead.

[Omnipresent]

26. I just assumed large ships like this would have tug boats.

It’s like cargo ships were never given a second thought, when it comes to regulating them for operation near ports or bridges.

[FakeNoose]

29. Every harbor provides tug boats to assist those big-ass container ships

... also the tugs accompany the smaller ships too. But when the large ocean-going vessels have power issues, and that's the case here, the harbor's tugs are pretty helpless.

In fact the Dali should have never left the dock until its power issues were resolved. But who has the authority to prevent them from leaving? Not the Baltimore harbor patrol.

[eallen]

30. Am curious, in this case, what you mean by "open water"

Past Ft. Howard and into the Chesapeake proper? Past Annapolis? Past Virginia Beach and into the Atlantic?

Chesapeake bay is quite long. If you require tugs the whole trip, I suspect that is enough cost to make shippers think Baltimore is an expensive port, and they should prefer others.

[RobinA]

37. Good Point

The Key Bridge wasn't exactly the Gateway to the Atlantic. As the crow flies it's about 169 miles from Baltimore to Norfolk, with several twists, turns and bridges. And considering the number of gigantic container ships I've seen hanging out just outside the Chesapeake, it does seem that it would require a lot of tug time.

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Outside theKey Bridge is considered open water

[eallen]

42. Yet transits another bridge on way to Atlantic

[Conjuay]

43. while everyone is playing 'Wack-a-Mole'...

Does anyone remember that NOAA put out a warning that March 25, 26, and 27th would experience possible electronic disturbances? Could it be that a poorly shielded electronics system scrambled the ships computer?
Could a solar flair (a lesbian DEI solar flair, if you must) be a factor?

[Model35mech]

44. Booyah for Tugboats, But let's still build better bridge fenders

I am not opposed to Tugboats, but they are an active defense against ship collisions with obstructions in a port. Active means they need a crew, they need to be available for use and 'in contact' with ships needing assistance. They can't perform in severe weather (granted the Key-bridge crash wasn't in bad weather) or if the crew is on strike. A bad contract negotiation can stop a tugboat.

I am wondering about more passive defenses, such as bridge fenders. A bridge fender is a large(!!) heavy, concrete pier or artificial island of gravel with concrete margins. The job of a fender is to STOP a ship from hitting the piers of a bridge. These things are passive structures. Once built they are there doing their job 24/7/12 months out of the year until it is badly damaged by a collision, or until the size of ship traffic get so large that in order to remain protective, they must be replaced with even larger fenders.

Looking at the aerial views of the Key Bridge prior to the collision it is clear that there are far too few fenders and those fenders are woefully small to stop a supersized container-carrier cargo ship.

Whose responsibility is it to keep the harbor safe? Is it a federal issue? A port authority issue? A city issue? Private port maintenance issue? I don't know. I'm from farm country in the midwest. We don;t have seaports. Though, we can recognize the importance of these protective things, we have no idea about the structure of the authority involved in building and maintaining them.

Booyah for tugboats! But, lets still build better bridge fenders.