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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis Easter, let's not try to pretend Jesus was a 'Palestinian Jew'
Easter marks the resurrection of Jesus, but this year the holiday comes with a twist: Jesus resurrected as Palestinian. Never mind that Jesus was born and died a Jew in Judaea. From the pronouncement of a member of Congress to the pages of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, Jesus is now heralded as a Palestinian or, more delicately, as a Palestinian Jew.
Jesus made an appearance on social media as a Palestinian around Christmas, and the meme has flourished since then. The gambit casts 1st-century Jews in the role of an occupying power and Palestinians as their victims. Just as Herod, the king of Judaea in Jesus time, persecuted the Palestinian holy family of Jesus, Mary and Joseph, so, too, goes the claim, is modern Israel an occupying power persecuting Palestinians today.
So caught up were these advocates in their own spin that they mischaracterized reality. In a Christmastime post on Instagram, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) condemned modern Israelis as right-wing forces violently occupying Bethlehem. But Bethlehem has been administered by the Palestinian Authority since 1995. Once a significant majority there the Christian population plunged from 86 percent in 1950 to less than 12 percent in 2016.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/03/28/easter-jesus-not-palestinian-jew/
What would happen today if Mary and Joseph went to find an inn in the West Bank so Mary could have her baby? 🤔
SamKnause
(13,108 posts)Thank you. Its beyond pathetic that people still talk about magic and deities and sky wizards as if theyre real.
Modern people really think an undead carpenter from the Roman-occupied Judea of 2024 years ago is hovering around in the clouds and deciding what happens to people on this one little planet amongst trillions? Its mind-boggling to me.
LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)Igel
(35,320 posts)PJMcK
(22,037 posts)CincyDem
(6,363 posts)LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)Hrithik Roshan to enact Jesus Christ
https://www.boloji.com/articles/7213/hrithik-roshan-to-enact-jesus-christ
(Zee News ; Mumbai, June 09: With his Greek god looks, fervent temperament and a physique toned to perfection, Hrithik Roshan has stirred many comparisons with international hotties. But now the actor's look in his upcoming flick 'Kites' has left Hollywood buzzing with comparison between the actor and Jesus Christ.
Ever since the multi lingual film 'Kites' was showcased at the Cannes Film Festival, Latin American distributors are astounded by the actor's resemblance to the Lord.
Story goes that the foreign distributors, who saw the fist look of 'Kites' at Cannes were much too amazed by Hrithik's look in the film. So much so were they smitten by Hrithik's bearded avatar that they started to comment on the uncanny resemblance between him and Christ.
A daily even quoted a source as saying "Western distributors were reportedly taken up by the searing intensity in his eyes, his lithe frame and Adonis-like tan. Some of them were heard commenting that Hrithik would be the ideal actor to play Christ in a western production".
______________________
Note: The first time I saw Bollywood actor Hrithik Roshan, I thought, "This guy looks like a European portrait of Jesus", so I googled "Hrithik Roshan looks like Jesus". Hrithik never portrayed Jesus, but I thought the buzz was funny.
We will never know what Jesus looked like because there is no description of his appearance.
Towlie
(5,324 posts)So this Easter, let's not try to pretend it originally had anything to do with Jesus.
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)2 different things
is a jew born in america a jew or american or both
LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)ColinC
(8,301 posts)LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)"West Bank" is a term invented in the 20th Century.
ColinC
(8,301 posts)That makes sense
Igel
(35,320 posts)He was born in the Romance province of Palestina.
Arabs were present, but mostly as traders and in a small minority. Nabateans to the east were Arabs, of a sort. Bedouins were moving in from the SW to the extreme south of Palestine.
Iisus was born in Palestina. He was Palestinian. It's just a homophone with modern the modern idea of "Palestine".
Geographic names tend to be conservative. And weird.
I've been told--but have trouble verifying--that if you were speaking as an educated adult in 1925 in the US and referred to "Palestinians," you'd almost certainly mean Jews that lived in Palestine; Arabs were referred to as "Arabs." At the time Arabs from Amman to the Mediterranean were "Jordanians." Or just "Arabs."
Now, I'm fascinated by ethnogenesis--how a population tends to cut itself off from a larger population and regard itself as a separate ethnic entity. It's devilishly hard to find anything reliable because since this has become a topic it's become ideologized. In other words, it's clear that Slavs at some point stopped being just "Slavs" but became srbove and hrvatske, for example. But this happened in the background. As it happens in real time issues of oppression, social justice, yada-yada all come to the fore and mask the facts, processes, etc., that are happening because it's all overlain with Big Issues of Justice and Righteousness. When it all boils down to, I think, ultimately, "They're not like us, we don't want to be--ugh--like them ... yewwww! ... and we're sure they don't want be like us!" Maybe I'm wrong, but you slather 8 inches of fiberglass over what's going on and all you see is fiberglass.
Still, it's fairly clear that Palestinian ethnogenesis is recent, in the last century, and still not nearly as complete as, say, Scottish versus English or even white American versus Black American ethnicities.
LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)Palestina was on the coast when he was alive
I think Arabs were more or less known by the tribal names. Around that time, the Palestina region had a fairly high European population due to sea trade.
The Romans got mad at the Jews and eventually renamed Judea, Israel and Samaria: Syria/Palestina, but that was after the temple was destroyed.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)under Herod, ie pre 4 BCE; Luke says he was born in Bethlehem after Quirinius/Cyrenius had become governor of Syria, ie 6 CE or later, by which time it had become the Roman province of Judea; and Mark and John don't mention Bethlehem at all, just saying he grew up in Galilee (as the other 2 say too), ruled over by Herod Antipas. Galilee didn't become part of a Roman province until 39 CE.
'Palestina' would not have been called Arabic then; 'Arabic' meant those on the east coast of the Red Sea. The ethnic origins of the Philistines, from where the name 'Palestine' comes, are unclear; perhaps from both Canaanite (which covers the whole region - the Hebrews had Canaanite roots too) and Aegean roots.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)Who is from Italy - says its okay to eat lasagna on Easter.
EarnestPutz
(2,120 posts)dembotoz
(16,808 posts)LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)Where, then, did the name Palestine come from? From a foreign imperial colonizing power: Rome. Judeans revolted twice against the Romans. The first revolt, from A.D. 66 to 73, reached an awful climax with the destruction of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Still, Rome kept Judaea as the regions designation. But in A.D. 132-135, the Jews again revolted. By that point, Rome had had enough. The empire changed the administrative name of the region to Syria-Palestina a full century after Jesus death. It was a deliberate way to de-Judaize the territory by using the throwback term for the coastal Philistines.
dembotoz
(16,808 posts)LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)In 1895, the Holy Land region was known as Palestine.
However, the map appears to locate ancient areas and clearly Philistines are on the coast. Jerusalem and Bethlehem are in Judah.
ColinC
(8,301 posts)Mosby
(16,319 posts)His hebrew name:
ישוע בן יוסף ומרים
Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary.
Sibelius Fan
(24,396 posts)sarisataka
(18,663 posts)The Bethlehem in Judea, however, had been around for at least 1300 years.
ColinC
(8,301 posts)And it took another 600 years before Muslims controlled the region.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)To the existence of the village of Bethlehem during the timeline of the New Testament.
Fichefinder
(167 posts)After that, it's anyone's game
GreenWave
(6,759 posts)Igel
(35,320 posts)Apparently a few say they knew him, but otherwise ... All we have is hear-say and innuendo.
Few make Socrates' existence an issue because it doesn't matter, not really.
That's an important difference.
Bucky
(54,027 posts)Iggo
(47,558 posts)Aussie105
(5,401 posts)just to straighten out the folklore surrounding his existence.
But for most people Easter is about a few days off work, going somewhere in that free time, eating chocolate and hot cross buns.
And a vague feeling that you don't really know what this Easter thing is all about, and that one day you may seriously look into it.
Xolodno
(6,395 posts)....would you want to come back if the instrument of your death was on every church?
Bucky
(54,027 posts)Frankly, he'd be a fool not to come back and cash in
Sky Jewels
(7,111 posts)in religion that makes zero sense. Christians think that Jesus enters their internal organs, namely, their hearts. So it follows that if JC does that, hes already back on Earth, right? So whats the deal with the Second Coming?
And dont even get me started on the Jesus is actually his own father weirdness! I mean what the actual fuck?!
Even as convoluted mythology, Christianity is a twisted mess of nonsense.
Jirel
(2,018 posts)Those fictional characters are used as hand puppets to stand for murdering LGBT folks, destroy womens lives and bodies, maintain slavery as a national institution, and much much more. So if someone wants to say Palestinian Jew, so be it. Their take is much less harmful than many. Plus, anything goes in fanfic.
IrishAfricanAmerican
(3,816 posts)Sibelius Fan
(24,396 posts)First clue- people dont come back from the dead.
Lancero
(3,003 posts)LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)Autumn
(45,107 posts)if someone says they were bad guys. They were. Bunch of religious control freaks and these fucks today that admire that shit want women to go back to that place.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)Those who dies 2000 years ago don't care but Jews alive today care when it is a group slander used to justify violence against them.
Jewish deicide is the notion that the Jews as a people are collectively responsible for the killing of Jesus, even through the successive generations following his death.[1][2] A Biblical justification for the charge of Jewish deicide is derived from Matthew 27:2425.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_deicide
The notion arose in early Christianity, the charge having been made by Justin Martyr and Melito of Sardis as early as the 2nd century.[3] The accusation that the Jews were Christ-killers fed Christian antisemitism[4] and spurred on acts of violence against Jews such as pogroms, massacres of Jews during the Crusades, expulsions of the Jews from England, France, Spain, Portugal and other places, and torture during the Spanish and Portuguese Inquisitions.
In the catechism that was produced by the Council of Trent in the mid-16th century, the Catholic Church taught the belief that the collectivity of sinful humanity was responsible for the death of Jesus, not only the Jews.[5] If one were to claim that only the Jews were responsible for Jesus' death, the logical corollary to this would be that Jesus' redemptive suffering, death and resurrection was for the sins of Jews alone and not all of humanity, as is taught by the Church. In the Second Vatican Council (19621965), the Catholic Church under Pope Paul VI issued the declaration Nostra aetate that repudiated the idea of a collective, multigenerational Jewish guilt for the crucifixion of Jesus. It declared that the accusation could not be made "against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today".[1]
Most other churches do not have any binding position on the matter, but some Christian denominations have issued declarations against the accusation.[
As for the religious control freaks that want to control women, that would be the Islamic fundamentalism Hamas wishes to impose on Palestine.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)Come on. You are here today you don't see that? That pope sounds a bit crazy too. As you can see I'm certainty not a believer in that historical religious "stuff". None of them can prove anything and people who have been dead for 2000 years can not be offended nor do their bones feel guilt. That is a fact. Science beats woo every time.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)I was referring to Israel/ Gaza. Israel is a very liberal country AFAIK and there is equality. There are of course the ultra-orthodox who would like to see the situation change.
Hamas plan for Palestine is to have strict Sharia law apply to everyone.
I note you skipped over how the accusation of deicide is used to justify modern antisemitism.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)I skipped over nothing. Since my post had nothing to do with Israel/ Gaza, I saw no need to address that bullshit. As for what is or is not anti-Semitism the words of some dead catholic pope mean as much to me as a living or dead pope being the final word on pedophilia.
sarisataka
(18,663 posts)is a reality. It still exists and is still used to persecute Jews.
That a "dead catholic pope" said there was never any sin and to hold Jews accountable for the Crucifixion is wrong may be meaningless to you but it was quite the reversal for the Catholic church. The declaration meant that the 1000+ years the Church held Jews at fault was wrong and the many persecutions and pogroms were also wrong. For the largest sect of Christianity to say "we were wrong" is not a small deal. Does that make the Church perfect or absolve anyone- no, but it is an important step.
I could address what I believe your opinion of what is and is not antisemitic, but I will do the courtesy of not putting words in your mouth.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)my opinion is on anything but religion.
So thank you for not addressing what you don't know about?
RockRaven
(14,972 posts)the contemporaneous geographical adjective is way down the list.
JustAnotherGen
(31,828 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(607 posts)at least according to FAUX news
Iggo
(47,558 posts)madaboutharry
(40,212 posts)Jesus was not Palestinian, we need to dispel that myth forever - opinion
Trying to erase Jewish connections to the land
The term Palestine derives from Philistia after the land of the Philistines, a people originally from the Aegean coastline (modern-day Greece and Turkey). Goliath was defeated and the Philistines disappeared centuries before Jesus was born. After Imperial Rome defeated the third Jewish uprising, Roman forces massacred and expelled massive numbers of Jews from Judea and renamed it: Syria Palaestina. This was in 135 CE, over a century after Jesuss death (sometime around 27-33 CE).
The new name was to minimize Jewish identification with the land and punish the rebellious Jews by naming the country after their biblical enemies.
As evidenced by the Romans, the erasure of Jewish memory, identity, and culture from Israel has become a mainstay tactic for antisemites over millennia.
What would Jesus now say about Palestinian-American activists such as comedian Amer Zaher, BDS supporter Linda Sarsour, and even Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who in recent years have depicted Jesus as Palestinian?
Speculation abounds, but the motive for Jewish erasure deserves quick mention, given its dangerous implications.
In October 2023, Hamas terrorists invaded Israel, massacring 1,200 people. Hamass charter clearly seeks to distort and deny Jewish history in Israel, presenting Jews as foreign colonizers.
https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-779313
Xolodno
(6,395 posts)And Jesus was a Galilean Jew...also an arbitrary area that refers to dirt.
But I find it rather interesting they are trying to claim him, as they would also have to acknowledge that they themselves are very likely to be converted Jews to Islam. Of course, if you say that to a Muslim or Jew in that area, it would be like calling a Persian and Arab, you'll wake up in the hospital from a coma.
LeftInTX
(25,372 posts)Xolodno
(6,395 posts)...he died the first night of Passover. But that changes every year based on the lunar calendar. This year it falls on....dang, late April.
Easter was just a pagan fertility holiday, hence the symbolism with eggs and rabbits. The Catholic/Orthodox church just gave in and "converted" it for all the gentiles.
And of course, Palestine is just a "territory" and there are maps that separate Judea, Samaria and Galilee, plus Jesus was a citizen of Gallilee where his mother was from. And he lived in Nazareth (also Galilee), the verse "Can anything good come from Nazareth?" is actually a joke. It was basically like Compton in its not so glorious years.
So he was technically a Galilean Jew. And when the Romans expelled everyone in Jerusalem and nearby areas, it was only in the area known as Judea. Samaria, Galilee, etc. were left largely intact. Of course, most of those Jews would later convert to Islam due to similarities at that time, Muslims were also protecting them from those damn blood thirsty Christians.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,034 posts)This was after the time of Jesus,
Bucky
(54,027 posts)They were a Phoenician people, proto-Carthaginian, if you will.
But literally none of this is relevant to the problems in Gaza.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)Bucky
(54,027 posts)I really detest these threads using historical minutiae in order to make it easier for war crimes supporters to sleep at night.
elocs
(22,582 posts)Response to Mosby (Original post)
Lasher This message was self-deleted by its author.
republianmushroom
(13,616 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)and those in Gaza descend from Jesus and others living from that time.
Also Adam is the first Muslim.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)JI7
(89,252 posts)and turn away from it . That's why when someone converts to Islam they refer to it ad "reverted" to Islam.
Cha
(297,309 posts)Why try to take someone else's?
Jilly_in_VA
(9,983 posts)in the Roman province of Judea, which is in present-day Israel, which is also the former British colony of Palestine and was part of the Ottoman Empire before that, when it was known as ?????
In the Orthodox Church, whatever branch, icons always show him as dark-skinned and dark-eyed, as a person from that area likely would have been.
Beastly Boy
(9,375 posts)Regardless of how you look at it, calling Jesus a Palestinian Jew is fiction at best.
And, my own two cents: since it is fiction, the only significance of calling Jesus a Palestinian Jew has to do with cultural appropriation in the service of propaganda.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)the claim that Jesus was divine and was a failed messiah. That map has changed so much over the last 2000 years what does it matter.
Beastly Boy
(9,375 posts)and claiming that Jesus was a Palestinian Jew goes against this narrative. It doesn't matter whether he existed or not, or who claims him to be divine or a failed messiah, or how much the map has changed over the past 2000 years.
What matters is that his name and his cultural background, fictional or not, is being appropriated today, in contradiction to the established narrative, by the people who invoke his name in the service of their propaganda.
Thar was what I said in my post.
Autumn
(45,107 posts)fucking time. Blond hair blue eyed Jesus, who has spent hours in a gym getting buff doesn't seem to bother anybody. So if someone says that a Palestinian could have been involved being mentioned during a pagan celebration that's just too far over the line!!
I bet there some crossover somewhere if someone could find his DNA.
Beastly Boy
(9,375 posts)As far as appropriations go, sure, I agree 100% A blond blue-eyed Aryan Jesus is an even more ridiculous conception than a Palestinian Jesus.