General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow exactly is Israel supposed to stop Iran from sponsoring terror attacks against them without violence?
Surely with all the outrage at Israel striking against the country sponsoring terror attacks against them someone must have a solution other than "suck it up".
ck4829
(35,087 posts)TexasDem69
(1,821 posts)You havent been paying attention.
NickB79
(19,258 posts)Ace Rothstein
(3,183 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,363 posts)Weathering well would be not having your country invaded, attacked and murdered .. But then we know how people feel about THOSE things as it pertains to Israel.
MOMFUDSKI
(5,629 posts)had to steal more. Nuff said.
ripcord
(5,510 posts)They took Gaza from the Egyptions and the Gohlan from Syria after both countries repeatedly used those areas to launch full on wars of aggression against Israel.
But back on subject what can Israel do about decades of state sponsored terrorism from Iran?
Bucky
(54,053 posts)obamanut2012
(26,112 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,376 posts)So you either posted about something you dont know about, or you dont care that its not true.
MarineCombatEngineer
(12,423 posts)that is just plain false as noted in a reply to you, so either you're totally ignorant of the actual facts or you just plain don't care about the truth, which ever it is, you should grab a history book and learn the facts, or don't and keep repeating this false info.
madaboutharry
(40,219 posts)Zeitghost
(3,867 posts)Israel took control of Gaza, the West Bank and The Golan Heights in wars in which it was attacked by it's neighbors.
They attempted to later give most of that land back and Jordan/Egypt refused it and renounced the citizenship of their citizens who lived there.
JI7
(89,262 posts)Patton French
(771 posts)But it explains a lot.
David__77
(23,486 posts)Happy Hoosier
(7,376 posts)That the Muslim Palestinians wanted an Islamic state where Jews and Christians were powerless subjects?
The "evil" British rejected that plan.
brooklynite
(94,719 posts)wnylib
(21,586 posts)chose war in 1947 instead of accepting the UN proposal of two independent states. Shameful and immoral that they have put all their energy into hatred and attacks on Israel since 1948 instead of using that energy to build a government for themselves.
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate Israel." - Golda Meir
ChazII
(6,205 posts)If Israel gave an inch they might be surprised what good it does
Eko
(7,342 posts)That are attacking Israel.
ripcord
(5,510 posts)Even if Israsel wipes out the current crop of terrorists Iran will just switch support to other groups. Iran doesn't deserve a pass on their announced goal of driving the Jrws out of the Middle East, they are just as much a part of this war as Hamas. If you want to kill a snake you cut off its head and in terrorism in the Middle East that is Iran.
Eko
(7,342 posts)Israel attacks Iran, exactly how? Israel could have air-superiority vs Iran's fighter jets, that is a given. Iran has a large anti-air missile system though so while Israel could take out Iran's fighter jets they would lose a lot of theirs and only achieve air-superiority after a massive loss of their jets and bombers if they do. Israel has less troops, tanks and IFV's than Iran though Iran's are older and not as good. That being said Israel would have to travel through other countries or use ships and that would take time leaving them open to being discovered and being shelled by artillery. There are also the proxies Iran has right on the border of Israel that have over 300,000 missiles and rockets. Iran sent 300 and some of them got through, I don't know how well they would do with ten's of thousands at one time. Neither of them have a navy to speak of. So, you tell me how this would work.
ripcord
(5,510 posts)Instead Israel should passively accept the terror attacks, in silence. While the UN and the rest of the world looks on, in silence.
Eko
(7,342 posts)See post 4.
ripcord
(5,510 posts)Eko
(7,342 posts)I don't do that. I believe in an exchange of ideas. I have no one on my block list, look for yourself.
Eko.
Eko
(7,342 posts)Thanks for at least responding back. I appreciate that and I'm sorry you got alerted on. I don't think you deserved that. Nothing you did seemed to warrant an alert. I'm just tired of people putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. That I believe was wrong, but did not need an alert. Just me saying so.
Eko.
Eko
(7,342 posts)But I will get over it. People tend to get pretty heated on the Israel, Hammas, Gaza, Iran thing. It is a terrible thing so it is to be expected. I try my best to look at it from a analytical view as well as a humanistic view. I've had pro-Israel people tell me I support Hamas and I've had pro-Palestinian people tell me I support Zionism. All these people keep putting words in my mouth, and I'm fucking tired of it. I support the Palestinian people not being dead, I support the Israeli people not being dead. I support Hamas being dead. These seem to be simple things but are somehow so complex for people that they just cant wrap their head around it. So I am against what they are for no matter my words according to them. My motives are questioned despite my clear words. Here, on DU where I have been for 13 years. No name change, the same one for the entire time. All my posts good and bad easily searchable. My motives are,,,,, suspect. I have to admit though now that I have been found out. 13 years ago I came to America from Iran through quite a few countries. Hard to trace. Our intelligence services gave me papers to get through all the customs and get here. My mission was to join DU and infiltrate it till this very moment, spewing pro Iranian propaganda to upset the power balance here and thus achieve world domination!!!!!!!!.
If this is what we are reduced to, not being able to have intelligent discussions where information easily searchable and given in response to a question and the response is just more straw man and doesn't even address the information given,, then I will just have to keep doing that.
Eko.
PS, the Iranian thing was sarcasm, I can trace my lineage all the way to the dude that said, "Give me liberty or give me death" and I take that pretty seriously.
Bucky
(54,053 posts)Oh brother...
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)Iran just might be able to take down a small number of Israeli aircraft - but even that is not a given. The disparity in systems and capabilities is comparable to that which resulted in hundreds of Iranian missiles/drones resulting in virtually no damage at all. Iran has a handful of modern anti-air units, but nothing that could result in "massive loss of their jets and bombers"
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)However to carry the big stuff (penetrator bombs) they would have to carry those outside the plane so the IDF would have to do some Wild Weasel SEAD ahead of the strikes, also doable.
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)Syria has them too... yet hasn't seen much luck
It's certainly possible for an S-300 to take out an F-35... but only a bunch of things go wrong. As you point out - there would be missions to degrade air defenses. "Massive losses" on Israel's part are unlikely.
Eko
(7,342 posts)Do you think we should do it?
Happy Hoosier
(7,376 posts)Where Iran funds generation after generation of young Palestinians to die at their behest. Great plan.
Eko
(7,342 posts)EX500rider
(10,849 posts)I'd cut out the middle man and go for the instigators, otherwise it goes on forever
Eko
(7,342 posts)Hezbollah has over 150,000 missiles and rockets and is right on the border with Israel. Iran sent 300 and 1.6% got through. Lets see 150,000 x 1.6%=2,400. That is a huge threat and getting rid of some of them seems like a really, really good idea. Especially since Israel can target them and Iran can say they weren't theirs. Israel can target a couple of the bigger sites and leave the rest alone. The chances of escalation are smaller than attacking Iran, it helps to get rid of the closer and immediate threat and leaves Iran a way out so that they don't do anything else. Now one can say that Hezbollah my react and fire at Israel. If Israel attacks Iran Hezbollah will do so anyways. That would open a multi-front war for Israel, Gaza, Hezbollah, Iran and the rest of Iran's proxies. What you are calling for will put the ME in a regional war. It will also pull the US and other countries into it.
0rganism
(23,967 posts)I very much doubt the problems of violent ideologies will be resolved through violence.
Perhaps there is a middle path that minimizes violence and restricts its use to specific individuals who stand in the way of peace while respecting the lives of innocents.
Whatever the answers, I remain hopeful for leadership from capable diplomats.
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)I'm not advocating for them... but they could seriously degrade Iran's ability to export crude oil and natural gas... which make up close to half of the government's revenue (far more than offsetting the amount they spend on their proxies).
0rganism
(23,967 posts)...replacing it with direct state violence from Iran itself. Perhaps that's a desirable alternative, which it might be in the sense of Iran being a more-reliable negotiating partner than, say, Hezbollah. It comes at a price, naturally -- escalation towards all-out war, imperiling shipping through the Persian Gulf, a big spike in oil prices globally, and the sticky wicket of eventually arriving at a sustainable peace agreement to reduce large-scale destruction and re-enable shipping. At which point we're basically back to where we are now, with a fresh glob of causus belli spread around the region and Iran resorting to loosely-affiliated proxies for sufficient levels of violence to keep up its appearance as a strong anti-Israel Islamic state.
Point taken though, the state-sponsored terrorism is at least deferred for a year or two.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)as well as their ports and they at least will have to make some hard resource choices.
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)Posts like this would get us all killed. Strike first you say?
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)Iran has zero reach to the US
Earth-shine
(4,044 posts)As if they couldn't strike in the US with terrorism.
Please enjoy that safe feeling that you have being away from all the fighting.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)maxrandb
(15,349 posts)What's been tried for the past 1,000 years hasn't worked.
Voltaire2
(13,127 posts)sarisataka
(18,757 posts)"Occupied territories" means Israel
Voltaire2
(13,127 posts)Meanwhile the 50 year occupation is clearly a catastrophic failure.
sarisataka
(18,757 posts)You are bothered with what is done by Israel but not what is done to Israel. It really isn't about stopping Iran or the terrorists.
Most people are not so forthcoming
Voltaire2
(13,127 posts)FBaggins
(26,757 posts)The question was how Israel stops Iran from attacking them (directly of through proxies). You (fairly ridiculously... but you do you) say they should give Iran what they want (since appeasement worked so well in the past?).
It was pointed out that what Iran wants is the destruction of the state of Israel.
Meanwhile the 50 year occupation is clearly a catastrophic failure.
Presumably judged only by what you care about.
Israel continues to exist as the only free and democratic nation in that part of the world despite being surrounded by far larger populations that want to destroy them. But hey... somebody on the internet has a poor opinion of them! Catastrophic failure!
Happy Hoosier
(7,376 posts)... but if you think that withdrawing from the West Bank and Gaza would end this, you are kidding yourself. Hamas and MANY Palestinians will not be satisfied until every Jew in the region is dead.
Voltaire2
(13,127 posts)However we won't know until we try. What we do know is that the 50 year occupation is a disaster and is feeding the extremists groups like Hamas. Continuing a disastrous policy because the obvious alternative 'might not work' seems stupid to me.
Happy Hoosier
(7,376 posts)I favor a two-state solution, which neccessitates a withdrawla from the OT's. including removing settlements in the West Bank. But we'll see if that ever happens. The right wing in Israel is still pretty strong.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)in the first place.
Israel has been far kinder and gentler than what was on offer to them.
Those handwringing about the 67 borders should not have waged genocidal wars to erase them and have done so repeatedly.
👍😊
Redleg
(5,830 posts)They are in a difficult situation and I think that all diplomatic options should be explored first.
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)Last edited Thu Apr 18, 2024, 11:07 AM - Edit history (1)
IOW - The war is already "widened". Striking back doesn't change that.
More importantly. The reason that Iran previously only attacked Israel through proxies - was because a direct conflict with a powerful nuclear power would be too dangerous to them personally. If Israel doesn't strike back - that calculus changes. Why wouldn't Iran do it again?
The key is for Israel to strike back in a way that maintains the "don't be stupid enough to attack Israel directly!" calculus without justifying yet another attack.
Not an easy line to walk.
Voltaire2
(13,127 posts)Iran responded to a direct attack by Israel on Iranian territory, its consulate building in Syria.
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)One - consulates are not the territory of the foreign power.
Two - the war was well underway at that point. Launched by Irans proxy.
Oh
and 2.5 is that the war wasnt just from Gaza. Iranian proxy Hezbollah had attacks from the north as well.
Redleg
(5,830 posts)There aren't many good options here, just least bad ones.
RandySF
(59,167 posts)atreides1
(16,093 posts)If this tit for tat thing continues, the US will be in it up to their necks...because at some point either the Iranians directly or through a proxy group will go after the two largest US military bases in the region, the US base in Qatar and the 5th Fleet HQ located in Bahrain.
Attacks on either of those bases will bring the US into direct conflict with Iran.
claudette
(3,587 posts)do it. Talk might
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)claudette
(3,587 posts)Better than more death and destruction
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)"And maybe stop chanting DEATH to ISRAEL & AMERCIA! at all your rallies?"
Im done. Im sure diplomats would have better ideas than your sarcasm. Bye
Ping Tung
(651 posts)Yet we humans consider ourselves to be the very tip top of evolution.
The blockheads on both sides lack the wisdom to reach a non-violent solution.
PCIntern
(25,577 posts)EX500rider
(10,849 posts)...I mean it was only 110 IRBM's, practically a pat on the back, right?
RandySF
(59,167 posts)Israel is only allowed to combat terrorism with a hand tied behind his back.
Aussie105
(5,429 posts)Centuries of smiting your enemies with bigger and bigger weapons has been going on, it is popular in that part of the world.
Smiting shall continue until large parts become uninhabitable and one side cries enough.
The answer to stop it now is . . . mumble, mumble . . .
Yeah, nah, I got nothing.