AOC gives the perfect answer for progressives mad at Biden because of Palestine.

[Nevilledog]

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AOC responds to Mehdi Hasan's question: "What do you say to a young progressive or an Arab-American who says to you, 'I just can't vote for Biden again after what he's enabled in Gaza.'?"


Last edited
9:09 AM · Apr 19, 2024

[Celerity]

1. K & R

[Srkdqltr]

2. What did she say?

[Cha]

4. She basically said that

to her Democracy is our most important issue.

[Earth-shine]

5. She gives a long, rounded answer about the value of democracy. I'd give a different answer.

Biden is the only thing standing between Bibi and the total destruction of Gaza.

If Trump wins, Gaza (and Ukraine) are done.

[PortTack]

6. Exactly!

[Mr.Bill]

7. Correct.

The aid we give Israel looks like we support everything they do in Gaza. The fact is, if we cut off all aid we would lose what leverage we have. It's a fine line for Biden to walk and it's easy to be wary of how he is handling this, But I trust the path he is taking. He knows what he is doing.

[RandomNumbers]

41. Yeah, I really didn't expect AOC to say that. And to be fair (or something) -

the people who think this is about "lesser of two EVILS" and that Biden is EVIL because of Gaza - if AOC even tries to point out what you say (which is true), those people just write her off and call her a sellout. She would lose any chance of getting them to think rationally even on the angle she presents.

Obviously I don't know if she thought of it that way. However, despite my disagreements with her on some things - she's frequently quite smart.

I think her argument presented has some chance of being effective with her target audience. I'll take it.

[Earth-shine]

43. AOC sounded like a typical politician.

Welcome to the establishment AOC.

She's a fine human being and leader.

[Cha]

3. Yeah, our Country & Planet are the Most

Important issues of our lifetime.

Those who "can't vote for Pres Biden" have no idea what would happen if TSF gets in again.

Just like in 2016 when Stein Spewed Lies in the Swing states about Hillary & TSF.. they didn't give a Shit about the SCOTUS Are they sorry now?

I'm glad she got that out there.

TY

[Quixote1818]

8. Tell this to the F__ing Young Turks. Nt

[Crowman2009]

16. Or as I and many others call them : The Young Terfs

Given how anti-trans they have been lately.

[comradebillyboy]

38. The Young Turds

[peggysue2]

9. AOC has become an impressive legislator

I initially thought she might turn into a flash in the pan with all the social media presence.

I was wrong.

She has proven herself as a thoughtful, informed and solid Democratic team member.

One of those times I’m truly happy to be wrong.

😉

[LiberalFighter]

11. I was having doubts about her.

[Traurigkeit]

18. She had/has/will DO much for NY District 14 that can be done for all other Districts across US

[GB_RN]

10. Biden Doesn't Have Bibi On A Leash...

FFS, this is getting ridiculous. The Gen Z-ers who think we can just somehow make a phone call or flip a switch and Israel magically does what we want, are delusional. My son wasn’t in that crowd, but I spent a LONG time explaining the history of modern Israel and how this isn’t some black/white issue.

These kids don’t understand that there’s only so much that we can do to pressure Israel/NuttyYoohoo to back down. Should we maybe have held back military equipment? Possibly. But I want one of them to please tell me what in the wide, wide world of fucks we could do, short of putting troops on the ground as peacekeepers, to actually get this dialed down?

And then, tell me what the actual odds are of Israel or the Palestinians/Hamas/Hezbollah actually backing down, even with us in the middle - assuming of course, that we don’t get attacked outright by all sides as foreign invaders.

Inability to think critically, a lack of understanding of historical context and not knowing just how much (little) actual influence we have over Israel is a huge problem here.

[LiberalFighter]

12. If there were easy solutions

[GB_RN]

13. Exactly.

Not many things are like a First Person Shooter video game where you can solve the problem with the push of a button. 💥 And problem solved.

[Traurigkeit]

19. Dark Brandon would prefer to terminate Bibi but in the actual world Biden has limitations

[pansypoo53219]

20. yeah. not president biden they are fighting but netanfuckyou.

[Martin Eden]

24. "Should we maybe have held back military equipment?"

Not maybe; ABSOLUTELY. If we had done that months ago, I don’t think we'd be having this conversion about young progressives witholding their votes from President Biden.

[David__77]

33. Correct.

[Deminpenn]

35. IMO, there is something the US can do

and that is to make it clear to the Israeli government that US foreign policy toward them is first, last and always about putting US interests ahead of theirs. While our mutual interests are mostly aligned, they aren't always. What Netanyahu and his government are doing is clearly not in the US' interest and hasn't been for awhile. Had that always been our policy, Israel's government would understand that meant US aid might become conditional, reduced or withheld altogether. Maybe Israel's government would have thought twice about some of the provactive actions like expanding settlements they have taken.

The US unconditional support for the government of Israel has enabled rather than restrained it because the Israeli government knows that when it comes down to brass tacks, the US will do exactly what they are doing now, being publically critical, but continuing to provide military and other foreign aid.

[Mountainguy]

14. She's going to get herself

kicked out of the squad.

Which would probably be the best political gift she could be given.

[cstanleytech]

15. She is very articulate.

[DoBW]

17. You can't always get what you want

but if you try sometimes, you can get what you need

[betsuni]

21. I hope the "Genocide Joe" idiots listen to her.

[PCIntern]

22. I apologize. I can't find Palestine on a map newer than 1948

[Celerity]

23. look harder

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

Palestine (Arabic: فلسطين ) officially known as the State of Palestine (دولة فلسطين ) is a country in the Levant region of West Asia. It is officially recognized as a state by the United Nations and numerous countries. Palestine shares borders with Israel to the west and north, Jordan to the east and Egypt to the southwest. The state comprises the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. The population of Palestine exceeds five million people, and covers an area of 6,020 square kilometres (2,320 sq mi). Jerusalem is its proclaimed capital and the official language is Arabic. The majority of Palestinians practice Islam while Christianity also has a significant presence. Gaza is the largest city, while Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital, with Ramallah serving as a current temporary administrative center.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012. As of 4 April 2024, 140[clarification needed] of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine.

Embassy of the State of Palestine in Sweden

https://palestineembassy.se/embassy/

[PCIntern]

30. What a joke...

[Celerity]

32. yes, I agree, trying to erase the State of Palestine is a joke

[David__77]

36. Some people deny Palestinians are a people.

[Celerity]

40. yes, I have seen it claimed here on DU in the past

There are some here who buy into (all or some) the extremist RW Israeli stances that there is no such thing as Palestinians, that Israel has the right to all the land in Gaza and the West Bank, that all the RW Israeli settlers/squatters and their towns are valid and legal, that Israel has the right to do anything they wish in re the Palestinians, and anyone who disagrees with Israel having an unfettered hand and/or speaks out against the deaths of ten of thousands of Palestinian civilians is an open antisemite and/or a Hamas lover.

I have seen all of that pushed here, including before October 7th.

[PCIntern]

39. Have a nice day!

[maxrandb]

25. Funny, I can't find Israel prior to that date either

Although there is a brief description in a book about an invisible sky wizard.

[PCIntern]

29. That's right...

Because it didn’t exist. Like Palestine doesn’t, and never will, exist again.

[David__77]

34. Your statement cannot erase the Palestinian people.

[XorXor]

47. Any reason why not?

I mean, let's say the Palestinian people come to the realization that Hamas is not a good look, and they come to the realization that they need to compromise and coexist with Israel without violence. On the flip-side Israel comes to a similar conclusion. Is your opposition to that ideal world, or is your opposition here more about that you do not think Palestinians will ever come to such conclusions?

Given the rhetoric I've been seeing, I don't have much faith in their ever being anything that will bring peaceful coexistence. There is too much animosity, some justified, some not. So, I would understand if your reasoning is similar to my latter explanation.

[Martin Eden]

26. I don't think her answer will convince anyone rejecting Biden over Gaza

She didn't speak about the fate of Palestinians at all, and "democracy" is too nebulous a concept in the face of mass slaughter and famine going on right now.

The best answer, at least to me, is straightforward:

The next president will be Joe Biden or Donald Trump. Your vote will help determine that outcome.

Regarding the fate of the Palestinians, Trump is downright hostile to them. He moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, has no interest in a 2 state solution, and would cut off all aid to Palestinians. He would encourage and support what Netanyahu is doing, rather than exert diplomatic pressure to call a cease fire and ramp up humanitarian aid.

Setting aside that conflict, please consider every other major issue you care about:
Catastrophic climate change;
Civil rights for LGBTQ people;
Women controlling their own bodies;
Racial and economic justice;
Democracy vs fascism.

Joe Biden is on our side on every one of those issues, whereas Donald Trump and the Republican Party are NOT.

Your vote matters, and this election will shape the world in which we will all live.

If Donald Trump becomes president again, it may very well be the last election.

[RandomNumbers]

42. Except she DID. (talk about the fate of Palistinians)

In the beginning she gives the example of a Palestinian-American who has had their family killed, and says she isn't about to lecture them.
Then starting about 1:10:
"I think about what conditions do I want to be organizing under in the next 4 years. You can look at both of these individuals oppositionally as well ..."

okay I am done transcribing, you either get it or you don't.

Her point is even if you DESPISE Biden's approach to the IP conflict, AND it is the biggest issue for you - you are in a better place to change it for the better, if Biden is elected than if Trump is.

To me it is quite plain. Perhaps she needs to spell that out a little more clearly though?

Edit to add: okay re-reading your post (Martin Eden's post), I think you wanted to hear more about how much WORSE Trump would be for Palestinians. Fair point. But I think if someone is so blind / duped to think Trump would somehow be less bad for Palestinians - I'm not sure how she or any of us could break through that fog.

[Martin Eden]

45. I listened to it again. After saying she wouldn't lecture a Palestinian whose family was killed

She did not specifically address the situation in Gaza again. She spoke in general terms about democracy and organizing, with a swipe at Trump towards the end.

Don't get me wrong. I like AOC and wish we had more young Democrats like her.

My entire reason for posting in this thread is the necessity to change the minds of those who intend to withhold their votes from President Biden because the USA continues to provide Israel with bombs that kill civilians in Gaza.

Do they actually believe the Palestinians would be better off with Trump as president? I doubt they believe that. My impression is they are so outraged, they simply can't bring themselves to vote for Biden. It's an emotional response, not a rational consideration of the binary choice in this election.

[Think. Again.]

27. Here is another thread on this....

https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18877999

[Hotler]

28. Democracy or fascist dictatorship, choose wisely. nt

[Bucky]

31. She's so so right here. Nuance is so a rare in politics today

I support the pro-Palestine, anti-war protests. They have a right to raise a stink about a critical and moral issue in our republic.

They're doing exactly what Obama asked of Americans 16 years ago. "You have to hold my feet to the fire" (some of you whippersnappers don't know it, but he was paraphrasing Harry Truman). People who just sent and must speak out and must speak out in a way that they get heard.

It's a little silly to say silence your voice and silence your dissent cause we're trying to save democracy here. If we want to get their votes for Biden, we're gonna have to earn it. That's how democracy should work.

[dalton99a]

37. Kick

[XorXor]

44. That was a good response.

[Ping Tung]

46. Well done. I will vote against the war and vote for Biden.

I would be happier voting for him if he was stronger about pursuing a two state solution but he seems to be moving that way and applying pressure on both sides to stop the killing and madness.

Such hope for a realistic settlement with Trump in charge is impossible.