"I just don't like Hillary..."

[MineralMan]

So, how did you like Trump, because that's what you caused?

How come you're not answering my question?

Crickets, eh?

[bluestarone]

1. Sometimes it's really hard to understand how some people decide things.

REALLY HARD!

[Think. Again.]

2. I wonder if DU should update this rule...

From the terms of service:

"Don't keep fighting the last Democratic presidential primary
Regardless of whether you supported a winning candidate or a losing candidate, do not prolong the agony of the last Democratic presidential primary by continuing to pick fights, place blame, tear down former primary candidates, bait former supporters, or do anything else to pour salt on old wounds.

Why we have this rule: Most of our members want this to be forward-looking, friendly community that is focused on creating a better future for our country. Continuing to rehash old fights that have already been resolved is divisive and counter-productive."

[brooklynite]

6. What does the OP have to south Primaries

Nb : 2016 isn’t the “last Primary”

[MineralMan]

7. Not talking about the primary.

Anyway, we won the last election, if you can remember that. Joe Biden won, not Trump.

So, never mind.

[Tansy_Gold]

41. In spite of everything, Hillary won in 2016, too.

Enough of us liked her to give her more votes than TFG. In a sane democracy, rather than the electoral college controlled monstrosity we have, she would have been our 45th president.

I'm not fighting the last election; I'm just making a point.

[MineralMan]

43. We have the system we have. With just a few tens of thousands of

more votes, Hillary would have been inaugurated as President. Enough votes were cast for Jill Stein to have shifted the election to Hillary in three key states. I'm not fighting the 2016 election, either. I'm pointing out the historical statistics.

We have the electoral system. To win the White House, we need 270 electoral votes. Hillary did not have 270, but she could have had.

Perhaps your memory is not as good as you think.

And, by the way, you keep mentioning the "last election." The last election was in 2020. Joe Biden won. You might remember that one, as well.

Facts are facts. History is history. Our system is our system.

That is all.

[Tansy_Gold]

61. I mentioned "the last election" because

it is referenced as part of the DU rules and in the thread. I stated in the subject line that she had more votes in 2016, not 2020. I'm quite well aware who won in 2020, thank you very much. And yes, I know we have the system that we have. It's still a monstrosity, imho.

[MineralMan]

63. We can change the electoral system,

But only if we can get 2/3 majorities in both houses of Congress. Until then the system is what it is. So, we have to win using it.

[yardwork]

15. You joined DU in 2023. What are you talking about the 2016 primary?

Which the OP isn't even about, anyway.

[betsuni]

20. Does the word "last" have a new meaning now? Not even about the primary anyway.

[Think. Again.]

22. A grouped reply to all of the above posts;

You are all correct, the TOS only speaks of "the last primary", that's why I suggested an update.

[betsuni]

34. Why forget such an important and fascinating year in history?

"The fact is that we should be 'relitigating' the past all the time. It's called examining history. It's called exposing mythology and unearthing truth. It's called speaking truth to the power that was -- and that still, unfortunately, is. So, media pundits: Please stop shutting up those of us 'relitigating' the election. Be worthy of your profession. It's not your job to decide when the past is a closed book. It's not your job to recycle lazy narratives. Do your jobs, even if it mean owning your own failures." Susan Bordo

I find 2016 extremely important and interesting and will never forget it. Have never seen such vicious hate and anger!

[William769]

38. You are so right, also I am looking for rats that are still creeping around.

Last edited Sat May 4, 2024, 01:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Never forget.

[Think. Again.]

39. You would have to take that up with the admins.

[betsuni]

40. ...

[Permanut]

26. The OP is not about the last Democratic primary.

[Cha]

28. Why Would you Think the OP is About a "Primary"?

It Clearly is Not.

[revmclaren]

75. Exactly. Its obviously about the general election.

[intheflow]

86. I agree.

I believe this language was crafted after 2016. The language is ambiguous in that the last time we had a contentious primary was 2016. Maybe something like, “Do not keep fighting previous primaries.” Because I do think most of us prefer to be forward facing, understanding the past but not dwelling there.

[Arthur_Frain]

93. First rule of the TOS

Is you do not talk about the TOS.

[Think. Again.]

96. Lol! Thanks for that.

...but seriously, the only reason I brought it up is because we do tend see a lot of out-of-the-blue, gratuitous bashing of people who are probably not trump supporters, and I feel we are going to need those votes this year.

Besides, it does get tiring seeing that kind of bitterness bubbling up for no reason. Like the TOS says:

"Why we have this rule: Most of our members want this to be forward-looking, friendly community that is focused on creating a better future for our country. Continuing to rehash old fights that have already been resolved is divisive and counter-productive."

[MrsCoffee]

117. For no reason?

Way to pay attention.

[Think. Again.]

119. Yes, OPs popping up without anything prompting such...

...contentious sentiments, it's weird, and very negative.

And as I mentioned, I don't think it's a very good idea to scare away possible Biden and down ballot votes this year by being unnecessarily hostile. As I hope everyone here realizes, this is an extremely important election and every vote will count.

[Aristus]

3. That's No. 2 on my list of phrases I loathe that are related to Trump supporters.

Number 1, now and forever, is "I just voted for Trump to shake things up!" Most colossally stupid thing anyone has ever said, or ever possibly could say.

As if democracy needed "shaking up".

I noticed that none of those brain-free, drooling fucksticks ever said what exactly "shaking things up" meant, or what it was supposed to accomplish.

[yardwork]

16. They're dumb and bored.

[Aristus]

21. Tractor pulls and monster truck rallies not enough for them anymore?

Government is supposed to be boring. It's supposed to be effective, efficient, beneficial to the populace, and boring.

The old Chinese saying "May you live in interesting times" was intended as a curse, not a benediction.

[wryter2000]

24. Where does this one rank?

“I’m just not excited about Biden.”

[Aristus]

32. I'm not sure that one even deserves to have a numeric ranking.

Spoken as it is by people who think that Presidents have to be glitzy, and colorful, and exciting, and attention-getting in order to be good at the job. Trump may be attention-getting, but that didn't save him from being the most blisteringly incompetent head of state in the entire Galaxy. He makes Zaphod Beeblebrox look like George Washington.

[Cheezoholic]

56. Oh, I do like a good Hitchiker's reference lmao n/t

[LoisB]

31. For my ex-neighbor, it was "he tells it like it is". She would never explain "it".

[Aristus]

35. Of course not. They're just babbling what they hear the babblers on the TV say.

And are completely oblivious to the irony when they have to say "He didn't mean that!"

[Mr.Bill]

52. I heard those exact words from almost every Trump voter I knew.

They don't talk about it much anymore. I feel like most of the ones I know, know that they fucked up but won't admit it. Living in California, they really didn't help Trump anyway. They knew that, too.

[Aristus]

54. It's difficult for smart people to admit when they're wrong.

It's absolutely impossible for stupid people to admit when they're wrong.

[Mr.Bill]

65. That's a good one.

I'll have to remember that.

[brooklynite]

4. Who are you asking?

Plenary of non-white supremacists voted for Trump and may not have liked his personal antics but thought that economics worked out well during his Administration

[MineralMan]

9. Whoever said that. Whoever said that

and voted for, say, Jill Stein, for example.

[Autumn]

5. A lot of people who did not like Hillary still voted for her. Did those people cause Trump?

[MineralMan]

8. If they voted for her, I have no brief with them.

If they did not...well...

[Autumn]

11. Well... just expect crickets cause that's all anyone is going to put in the pot.

[MineralMan]

12. OK, then.

[Tree Lady]

10. Former Bernie follower who voted Hillary

many of us did.

And your right let old stuff go. Bad enough I have lefty friend on FB who doesn't like Joe. Thank god she is in CA so not worried. I notice a lot of her friends are telling her off. I just ignore that stuff don't get political there, have for family reasons.

[MineralMan]

13. "Biden is too old." Same thing.

Exactly. What that thing is ends up being another question. I think I know.

[W_HAMILTON]

59. Did they shit on her all throughout 2016 while doing so?

If so, yes, even if in some small part.

"No single rain drop thinks its responsible for the flood."

[Autumn]

69. Pure hyperbole. You are never going to find a Democratic or Republican candidate that everyone

adores in a primary. Preferring someone else in any Democratic primary is not shitting on one or the other. That's how a primary works. Democracy is grand. 2008 comes to mind.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

14. Lawrence: SCOTUS justices of 3 GOP presidents ended Roe. 'Your vote lives after you.'

The fate of Roe v. Wade and control of the SCOTUS was on the ballot in 2016. The fate of Roe was also on the ballot in 1988 and 2000 when each of the Bushes were elected.  

Link to tweet

I voted for the Democratic candidate in each of the 1988, 2000 and 2016 Presidential races. Those voters who did not vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 are responsible for the overturning of Roe v. Wade.

[MineralMan]

19. Exactly!

[calimary]

36. Damn right.

I doubt they think that far ahead, though.

Plus, they're probably THOROUGHLY grounded in the belief that their mindset is the way most Americans think.

[betsuni]

17. The fictional Hillary monster is the one they thought they didn't like.

If someone wants to buy something they take the time to shop around to find the best price and quality, but won't spend five minutes to Google something political, believe conspiracies and lies about Democrats.

Midwestern Methodist liberal do-gooder who probably always did extra credit in school, valedictorian speaker, remembers everyone's birthdays and writes thank you notes, first job was for the Children's Defense Fund, spent whole career championing women and children's rights, first one you'd call if you needed help organizing something (like she did with the Flint water crisis).

But no, she's a monster or vaguely unlikeable or untrustworthy just because people heard it over and over again.

Republicans have no problem voting for Trump without "liking" him.

[Quixote1818]

18. She was certainly not my first choice but I voted for her eagerly over Trump!

Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2024, 03:39 PM - Edit history (1)

I was stunned when she lost.

[Think. Again.]

23. I was stunned also...

...right up until the race was called, the pundits (and polls) kept saying Clinton was ahead.

The first word out of my mouth the next morning was "f*ck."

[Mariana]

84. The polls right before election day said she had about a 2 in 3 chance of winning.

She was ahead, sure, but it was far from a sure thing.

[Think. Again.]

85. Yes, they said she was ahead, I think I mentioned that.

[Aristus]

33. I was so stunned, I had to go home sick from work.

Mrs. Aristus and I spent the day consoling and comforting each other. It was like the end of the world.

[Polybius]

25. I wanted her so bad in 2008

If she won in 2008 (and picked Obama as her VP) and got re-elected in 2012, Obama would have almost certainly ran again in 2016.

[Chainfire]

27. It is good to learn from history but it is useless to try to beat it to death.

[betsuni]

37. Talking about history is beating it to death?

I find 2016 extremely fascinating and am disappointed there are not more books about it.

[Srkdqltr]

29. more people voted for Hillery in that election. period.

[MineralMan]

47. Hillary, please.

[Srkdqltr]

72. Thank you so much.

[Fullduplexxx]

64. That doesnt matter that's not how we elect presidents

[Srkdqltr]

66. Yes i know, its stupid

[Fullduplexxx]

71. Oh i completely agree ...nt

[Mike Nelson]

30. Well...

... the people liked her much more than they liked Trump. I thought Hillary was a great candidate! Unfortunately, the Electoral College voted for the minority candidate. The Media has elevated his following to "The American People" as a whole, "Half the Country," and other nonsense. His fans are rabid, though, and his name makes news.

[ismnotwasm]

42. It was the demonizing of Hillary for me.

I don’t care about the claims of voting for her later.

The damage was done way before the election. The implications that she was a corrupt, greedy corporate shill, that she was a war-wonger, that she didn’t want a solid healthcare plan for the US, that she ran a shitty campaign, the she was a liar, I could go on and on and on and on.

The damage was done in bad faith arguments, one at a time. It was a terrible time.

I remember all of it. I remember who. I remember why.

Even the clear danger of Supreme Court couldn’t dissuade those who despised Hillary from trashing her as often as possible.

They know who they are. I’m not talking about DU exactly—it was a much bigger problem. Viral misinformation.

Coincidentally, My husband is rewatching the debates between Hillary and Trump. There was a clear choice. Too many people choose wrong and here we are.

[MineralMan]

45. Yes, exactly.

When the facts are laid out, some people simply divert the conversation to hide that.

While Hillary won the national popular vote, that is not how Presidents are elected in this country. She lost the electoral vote, and by just a few tens of thousands of votes in three states. If you look at the number of votes for third party candidates, the explanation is simple.

Some of us remember the actual numbers and the actual history. Some of us either don't, or pretend not to.

We are facing another crucial election. I suggest we get together and make sure Joe Biden gets another term. We can do that. If we WILL do that. Let's not repeat November of 2016, please.

[NanaCat]

87. What's even more appalling

She lost the electoral vote, and by just a few tens of thousands of votes in three states. If you look at the number of votes for third party candidates, the explanation is simple.

In some of the states the number of berners voting for TSF were enough of a difference for her to lose the state, regardless of the third party votes. IIRC, Michigan was one of those states that had more berners voting for TSF than TSF won the state.

I despise them more than I do the GQPers. At least they're honest about their contempt for women and minorities.

[betsuni]

49. This is the fascinating thing! How did so many people be so stupid to believe the BS?

I mainly blame one person. At least an opposition party member has a reason to demonize Democrats.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

73. Yeah, the Obama campaign was pretty rough on her.

[ismnotwasm]

80. lol

[Autumn]

89. I could never understand why. She's likable enough

to quote President Obama She had to have been, she was SOS for4 years

[pfitz59]

44. In 2016 I grew so frsutrated

with Dems and Independents who wouldn't vote for Hilary because they didn't 'like' her. They didn't like Trump either but refused to see the danger he posed. They all have buyer's remorse.

[Patton French]

46. Something tells me that many, if not most, of the petulant people who did that

really don’t care.

[MineralMan]

48. You are correct.

The rest of us need to care enough to bring the numbers.

[GiqueCee]

50. Too many men used such personal animus...

... to mask their innate misogyny. There has never been a more qualified candidate in my lifetime – and I'm OLD! – than Hillary Clinton. She checked even more boxes than Joe, and he's GREAT!
Whatever. There will be a reckoning. I just hope I'm alive to see it and gloat. Schadenfreude can be delicious.

[MineralMan]

58. Yes.

[jaxexpat]

51. Their response is, predictably, seething psychosis.

[MineralMan]

60. Yes.

[Model35mech]

53. I know people who didn't like Hillary but still voted for her

I have no idea how common that might have been, but I've had neighbors tell me just that.

[MineralMan]

55. Yes. Just not quite enough.

[PortTack]

57. Ding ding ding!

[mcar]

67. And now some of these geniuses are

trying to blame Roe's demise on Biden.

[Martin Eden]

68. I voted for Trump because of HER EMAILS

But seriously, are there any true DUers here to answer your question as to why they didn't vote for her in the general election?

[MineralMan]

70. There are none here who

would admit to that.

[Martin Eden]

74. Silence of the ....

Crickets

[Hope22]

76. As far as I know there is a rule against saying you don't like Hillary.

But what is your point in asking this? Do we have a huge influx of people who don’t support Biden? What are you driving at?

[JoseBalow]

88. There is a rule against saying you don't like Hillary?

[AllaN01Bear]

77. i just love it when they cant give u an answer.

[GreenWave]

78. We have just seen how media poisoned voters away from her.

I know why they did it. I know they were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt their reason and rob them of their common sense. Fear got the best of them, and in their panic they turned to the now immune from prosecution, Donald Trump. He promised them order, he promised them peace, and all he demanded in return was their silent, obedient consent.

[Jilly_in_VA]

79. Well, I DO like Hillary

and I despise James Comey for what he did to her, HE lost the election for her. How's that?

[lindysalsagal]

81. Sadly, this year the "Biden's old" whine proves we are useless children

Even with a menace like tsf, complainers will concoct something. I don't know who they imagine is better....Biden's better prepared than any previous potus.

[Autumn]

94. Biden IMO is better than any other POTUS. He always has that calm I've got this

bearing. When he didn't run after Obama IMO that was a loss to the world.

[Ligyron]

118. Well, it was Hillary's "turn" so ...

[Autumn]

120. No one is entitled to a turn as President. That's for a monarchy.

[NanaCat]

125. Only the terminally stupid and divorced from reality

Anti-Hillary traitors were telling that lie about it being her 'turn.'

Everyone else was living in reality and busting their hump to get her into office.

[progressoid]

133. Not so sure about the everyone else "busting their hump to get her into office" part.

I've volunteered for a lot of campaigns (presidential and otherwise) and I was taken aback by the lack of interest in helping the Clinton Kaine campaign. At least on this local level it was a rather lackluster.

[NanaCat]

127. Oh FFS

The reason why he didn't run was never a secret, unless one refused to listen to the man. Even if you couldn't be arsed to listen to what he had to say about it, you could have at least tried to pay attention to the numerous people who set people straight when they dragged out this hoary old chestnut about why they couldn't understand his bowing out of 2016, because literally thousands of people have debunked that ridiculous 'query' right here on DU.

But since you missed all of those many explanations and debunkings, into the breach I go, yet again:

Biden didn't run in 2016 because his eldest son had just died of bloody fucking cancer, and he was devastated from the loss.

And if that's not a good enough reason for you, well, tough. It doesn't matter why he didn't want to run. He has 100% the right not to run, for any bloody reason he wants, without consulting anyone else about it.

[Rob H.]

130. Where did ahe say she didn't know why Joe didn't run?

Where did ahe say she thought he should’ve run regardless of what was happening in his life at the time? She only said it was a loss that he didn’t run.

[Autumn]

132. Anyone who has been paying attention for a month would know Democrats are well

acquainted with Joe's tragic loss.

[Autumn]

131. OFFS yourself. It was a what if. Your rage doesn't change the fact that had he as Bidens VP

ran for President he would have won and Trump would not be a fucking issue. Everybody know why he didn't run but it sure fucked things up when Trump won.

[jalan48]

82. I saw an interview with Bill Clinton several years ago and he was asked this question.

As I recall, he said he and Hillary were aware of the hate but he said he didn't know why it persisted.

[SYFROYH]

83. Do you imagine those voters wringing their hands in regret?

Cause they are not.

[MineralMan]

91. No, I don't imagine that.

In fact, I imagine that many of those who said that were pretenders in the first place.

[czarjak]

90. You just couldn't break rank and not vote R because?

Please proceed.

[betsuni]

92. Yet many Trump voters said they didn't like him but voted for him anyway.

Idiots acted as though they had to marry Hillary and live with her every day forever. Morons.

[MineralMan]

95. People often act strangely.

The thing about elections is that there are always only two candidates who have a chance to win. Voting for minor party candidates does not send a message. The only message you send is that you don't really care. It means that you don't play a role in who gets elected. It makes no sense to allow Trump into office if you could have done something to help the Democrat win. No sense at all.

[peacebuzzard]

97. The electoral college is a difficult explanation

when asked about US elections when overseas. It is confusing and stunning to citizens of foreign countries where the popular vote determines the President. Another interesting note is that many countries give their citizens the day off: election day.

[MineralMan]

99. I agree, but it is a constitutional issue.

So, changing it would require an amendment to the Constitution, something that is very difficult to achieve. Such a change would require a supermajority in both houses of Congress and control of enough state legislatures to get it ratified.

So, there it is, for the time being. We're stuck with it, as difficult as it is to understand. Originally, it was put in place to prevent states with high population numbers from overwhelming less populous states in presidential elections. Has that worked? Well, not too well, really.

[peacebuzzard]

102. It is difficult to explain

to some citizens of other countries. They regard it puzzling and conceding.

[MineralMan]

103. No doubt. However, there is an explanation.

[AllaN01Bear]

98. same thing w bill. same thing with jimmy. same thing w obama. i remember it well thank you very much.

[Kennah]

100. Politics is the art of the possible

2000 - Dubya or Gore
2004 - Dubya or Kerry
2008 - Obama or McCain
2012 - Obama or Romney
2016 - Trump or Clinton
2020 - Biden or Trump
2024 - Biden or Trump

[Azathoth]

101. I didn't like Hillary. I voted for her.

Most like me did the same. A handful voted for Trump as a protest in 2016, like voting for the Chewbacca candidate.

But I don't know anyone who voted for Trump in 2016 based on a principled dislike of Hillary who voted for him in 2020.

[DFW]

116. Did you ever meet her?

I always thought she was much better on a one-on-one than she was with crowds, but then, I was afforded the chance to find out, which most obviously were not. When the media wasn't around, listening for gotcha moments they could exploit, Hillary is warm, funny, relaxed, smart (as hell), and just a joy to interact with. It's unfortunate that she never acquired Bill's ability to project the same aura whether the cameras were rolling or not.

[Azathoth]

123. Saw her in person a few times over the years, shook her hand once I think

But was never in a position to sit down and speak with her.

Your description of her fits with what I've heard from others who got to know her personally. In fact, as far as I can remember, I've never heard anyone who didn't have a political axe to grind claim she wasn't pleasant and knowledgeable in person.

But being a smart and charming in one-on-one social situations is not the only thing most people look at when considering presidential candidates. I won't rehash all the serious policy and ethical debates regarding her, as they're in the past and truly insignificant compared ro Trump's unprecedented crime orgy clown show.

But since you concede that she didn't have the charismatic ability to connect with voters through mass communication that her husband did (something that once was impossible to say about her without being accused of Ted Bundy-levels of misogyny), I'll point out just one of the myriad issues that bugged me (and others) about her in 2008: she started her elected career on third base. Yes, lots of millionaires and billionaires attempt to do the same thing, and most of them end up doing nothing but wasting a lot of their own money (*cough* Bloomberg *cough*). But Hillary didn't use her own money, she used her husband's political achievements. And she only ran for two offices: a US Senate seat in one of the bluest states in the Union while her husband still President and controlled the entire national Democratic campaign infrastructure (a win that her supporters read *way* too much into), and the White House (which Hillaryworld had pretty openly admitted was the actual goal from the start). She skipped the part where she first ran for State Assembly, then Congress, then became a governor somewhere, etc. This is important, because not only was the first potential female president on the ballot solely because her husband had gotten her to a place where she could do so (not really a great icon for the history books), but she had also circumvented the natural weeding-out process that keeps people who don't have certain talents from rising to high office (or at least forces them to learn skills to overcome those deficits).

Take AOC. She got swept in as a freshman Congresswoman as part of a wave. And she was a disaster. She didn't have the communication skills, the knowledge of government or policy, or the basics of charisma or good optics for connecting with people outside of a very narrow ideological zone. But now look at her. She's boned up on her knowledge, she has gotten significantly better at delivering interviews and speeches and media stunts, and her penchant for giving Charles Manson-smiles for cameras has suddenly disappeared. She may never be President, but by starting out small and working up she has acquired valuable skills that would be necessary should she try to get elected to higher office. Hillary assumed that because she was smart and knowledgeable and had watched Bill do all this for decades, she could just step in and do it just as well as he did. She couldn't. And while her time as SoS definitely burnished her credentials and added additional gravitas to her candidacy, the nature of the job was not one that helped her strengthen those weaknesses. And by the time she ran again in 2016, the cake was already baked. No one was listening, one way or the other.

[DFW]

124. That's taking the dimmest view.

She was doing diplomacy, health care, social issues even while WJC was governor of Arkansas, and she was anything but idle as Senator and SoS. Obviously, she would not have won the popular vote by 3 million against a more serious Republican opponent in 2016. But I still think she would have won the popular vote, and the Republican candidate, had it not been Trump, might not have been perceived to be as malleable as Trump, and therefore maybe not received the crooked assistance that put him over the top. I still consider it undeniable that she would have been a competent-to-good president, better than anyone else in the Democratic primaries. That the country got fucked six ways to Sunday by the Trump presidency is a given for me, and I do not lay the machinations that brought that about at her feet.

[NanaCat]

129. And? So?

How many prior offices did TSF? hold before running for POTUS?

GWBush?

Reagan the Traitor?

Eisenhower?

Herbert Hoover?

Woodrow Wilson?

George bloody Washington?

I have a news flash for you, mate: Many of our POTUSes had little experience before running for the highest office in the land, but it didn't become a major issue for any of them...when they were W-H-I-T-E M-E-N. Suddenly, it becomes a huge problem when it's the W-O-M-A-N running. Oh, and the B-L-A-C-K M-A-N, too.

Telling, really, what people consider 'problems' for candidates who aren't white men, and then find it no big deal when the candidate is a white male.

[NanaCat]

128. It was more than a handful of the 'I Hate Hillary' crowd

Who didn't vote for her.

The berners alone voted for TSF instead in high enough numbers that she would have won some of the swing states if they hadn't been butt hurt misogynistic prats.

[Baltimike]

104. You're not giving PUTIN enough blame. Nt

[MineralMan]

105. Putin?

Fuck Putin!

Different issue.

[Baltimike]

122. Not different...absolutely related

TSF was PUTIN office and Pecker helped.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

134. I agree, completely.

Putin absolutely contributed to installing that asshole.

Paul Manafort and his stupid ugly ostrich coat. Maria Butina, the mediocre "honey pot," who apparently was hot enough to hook up with most of the inadequate male RNC, and conned them into believing there is a Russian "second amendment." (They probably believed everything she said after she played with their dinky ding dongs.) Thus the Russian money laundering through the NRA into MAGAt politicians' pockets.

That bloated Russian ambassador who yukked it up with *rump and other bloated pasty Russians in the Oval Office two seconds after *rump cosplayed taking the Oath of Office. Photo taken by Russian "journalist," and no US media allowed.

Konstantin Kilimnik, who happens to be wanted by the FBI, offering a $250,000 reward:

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/counterintelligence/konstantin-viktorovich-kilimnik

And on and on and on and on and on.

Putin IS the issue of 2016, IMO. Everything the gaseous asshole did was for himself, and Putin. He's installed THREE corrupt US SC Justices. He hated (and probably still does hate) Hillary, as she was Secretary of State when Congress passed the Magnitsky Act, Prez Obama signed it into law, and John McCain co-sponsored the bill. Hm. Seems to be a pattern.

Just a note, it always bothered me when news people (including Rachel) minimized the Russian meeting in *rump Tower June 9, 2016, as a discussion about Americans adopting Russian orphans. Putin had stopped the adoptions in retaliation for the Magnitsky Act, so discussing the adoptions was *rump, Kushner, Butthead, Jr., etc., and their Russian buddies negotiating Russian sanctions!

Background refresher on the Magnitsky Act:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act

Anyone with a strong stomach:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Tower_meeting

[MineralMan]

107. Me? Yes

I voted for her. I campaigned for her. Why do you ask? Who are you? I don't think we have met.

[GP6971]

109. Spreading rumors again I see. Enjoy!!!!

[hlthe2b]

112. Was that LG? I was just started to read all about their supposed Jill Stein CT against Hillary and 'poof'

[GP6971]

113. Yes it was.

[MineralMan]

114. Seemed familiar...

[GP6971]

115. Very familiar...long term resident troll.

[Niagara]

111. Thank you MIRT for taking out the trash

[Polybius]

121. I don't like her

I love her.

[Stardust Mirror]

126. Here in the prison labor camp

The "I Just Don't Like Hillary" club has quite a few members