General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNeal Katyal made a really good point last night
He said that cheato (a former POTUS for God's sake), was found guilty of contempt of court yesterday and that was not even the headline. Everyone just yawned. Of course it was mentioned, but it should have been the focus. It was the real news of the day.
Another example of this freak being normalized. This attitude by the corporate media does influence the public, whether we want to admit it or not.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,242 posts)If for some reason they fail at this, they will make sure good people like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and others are unable to do anything productive.
Harming us is their goal. But hey, we had to hold our nose to vote for Hillary and make sure EVERYBODY KNEW we were because she would not guarantee Medicare for All
onecaliberal
(33,381 posts)Right this minute there are anti government congressmen/women working to overthrow the government everyday while the justice department fiddles.
Marcuse
(7,622 posts)EDIT: It was Matthew Whittaker who patented the Masculine Toilet.
unblock
(52,869 posts)Anyone here recall the media telling us how the Hilary email thing is no big deal unless maybe if she gets convicted and even then only maybe?
Ha!
They insisted the investigation into a non-crime resulting in a grand total of zero indictments was massively important, and they sunk Hillary's campaign over it.
But here they are propping Donnie up after rape and defamation findings, 4 trials in the works and 88 indictments. Meh, boring news, ho hum.
senseandsensibility
(17,563 posts)They bury the lead (he was in contempt of court!) with hundreds of excuses and predictions about how none of it matters. So obvious when you realize what they are doing.
Silent Type
(3,489 posts)Wednesdays
(17,743 posts)Silent Type
(3,489 posts)birdographer
(1,447 posts)but Tiedrich says " but heres a fun fact: by being held in contempt of court in the New York trial, Donny is now technically in violation of the bail agreements of his other three trials."
But of course nothing will be done about it.
senseandsensibility
(17,563 posts)and he is not being treated the same as others. Everything should be framed around that.
onenote
(43,239 posts)The US Code is absolutely clear on this. Section 3418 sets the bar very high for a federal judge to revoke bail and in Trump's case the conditions for revoking bail haven't been met.
See post #11 for a more detailed explanation.
birdographer
(1,447 posts)I shouldn't assume he has checked his sources...
onenote
(43,239 posts)It's rare that they approach issues the way a thoughtful judge, like Judge Chutkan or Judge Merchan would.
onenote
(43,239 posts)I love all these experts that don't bother to discuss the actual statutory and case law that applies when someone is accused of violating a bail agreement, particularly bail granted by a federal court.
First, whether the contempt finding in the New York state court violates the condition of some or all of Trump's bail agreements is an unsettled question. To the extent those agreements condition bail on Trump not committing a crime while on bail, there is the issue of whether a violation of Judiciary Law 750, which is the provision Trump was found to have violated, is a "crime," as contrasted with a violation of Penal Law 251, which is a separate provision that makes criminal contempt a misdemeanor, which Trump was not charged with violating. The case law and legal scholars have indicated that the former is not a crime, while the latter is. Even if the distinction is deemed not to be relevant, and its enough that Trump broke a "law," judges have broad discretion in treating breaches of laws and violations of bail agreements. For example, one can break a law by littering, but no judge would treat that as an actionable violation of a bail agreement. And while contempt obviously is more serious than littering, under NY law, a violation of Judiciary Law 750 is not characterized as either a felony or a misdemeanor.
Finally, and most important, as a matter of federal statutory law -- 18 USC 3418 -- the bar for revoking a bail agreement is set pretty high. Specifically, that provision expressly provides that in order to revoke bail, a federal court judge must find "that there is no condition or combination of conditions of release that will assure that the person will not flee or pose a danger to the safety of any other person or the community" or that "the person is unlikely to abide by any condition or combination of conditions of release."
Given that Judge Merchan, the judge that handed down the contempt order, hasn't yet revoked Trump's bail, no federal judge is going to do so based on Merchan's contempt order.
Now, if Tiedrich, or Kirschner or any of the other experts so blithely declaring that anyone else in Trump's shoes would have had their bail revoked wants to address the statutory issues and relevant case law, I'm listening.
LetMyPeopleVote
(147,275 posts)Donald Trump is now the first former president in American history to be held in criminal contempt. The question now is what he'll do in response.
Link to tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/judge-merchan-finds-trump-contempt-happens-now-rcna150085
The judge presiding over Donald Trumps hush money case on Tuesday held the former president in criminal contempt over a series of posts on Truth Social that he said violated a gag order barring any attacks on jurors and witnesses. ... Judge Juan Merchan ruled Trump in contempt for nine violations of his gag order, with a fine of $1,000 for each instance.
As my MSNBC colleague Jordan Rubin explained, the jurist also ordered Trump to remove the seven offending posts from his Truth Social account and the two offending posts from his campaign website by 2:15 p.m. Tuesday.
Team Trump did, in fact, comply ahead of the deadline......
Well now see whether the presumptive GOP nominee intends to back up this rhetorical chest-thumping with deliberate violations of a judicial gag order. I have a hunch Trump will find it far easier to simply comply.
As for the bigger picture, its worth pausing to emphasize that while the former presidents jury trial is a long way from being over, its now fair to say that Trump has already suffered an important defeat. Its also history in the making: The Republican is now the first former president in American history to be held in criminal contempt.
orangecrush
(19,889 posts)SupportSanity
(313 posts)But contempt of court and a slap on the wrist is a big yawn. No matter if he set another (bad) record or not.
Farmer-Rick
(10,391 posts)But there are restrictions in a criminal trial on how much you can fine for contempt of court. Unlike in civil cases where there are more options for the judge.
"In his written order, Merchan said that criminal contempt is punishable by a maximum fine of $1,000, and jail time of up to 30 days. The judge also warned Trump that the court will not tolerate "continued willful violations" of the gag order and he would consider "incarceratory punishment" for future violations."
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-jail-gag-order-judge-merchan-trial-1895948
I wonder if they will put their pet monster in jail?
SupportSanity
(313 posts)Contempt without punishment is as good as impeachment without conviction.
These findings only work on people with shame.
Magats are shame free. The usual punishments have no affect.
LymphocyteLover
(5,751 posts)let's hope the outrage comes back, because this is all fucking outrageous
Katcat
(255 posts)But I have just realized that I went I want news I dont visit the news sites first anymore. Now I go directly to DU, DK, RS and a few others.
I can read the news myself or I can sit and listen to some news person reading someone elses version of the news.
Katcat
(255 posts)But I have just realized that I when I want news I dont visit the news sites first anymore. Now I go directly to DU, DK, RS and a few others.
I can read the news myself or I can sit and listen to some news person reading someone elses version of the news.
elocs
(22,764 posts)but I'm prepared to be disappointed.
flying_wahini
(6,854 posts)In reality tho, Trump would be a washed up hot mess if they just jailed him for 3 days.
Can you imagine his meltdown mode within a couple of days?
I wish he would jail him.
msfiddlestix
(7,302 posts)I have noticed one or perhaps two du'ers do not share our concerns Katyal's observations , butthey are the elite outliers and content with media's status quo in the enabling and therefor promoting the wanna be fascist psychopath's campaign to return to the White House.
young_at_heart
(3,791 posts)It seems all they care about is ratings.....how about they start caring about the country they live in!!
republianmushroom
(14,631 posts)39 months and counting (includes foot dragging)