1. Barack Obama; 2. Nancy Pelosi;

[speak easy]

3. Chuck Schumer; and 4. Harkem Jefferies.

I don't care what you think are the odds of Joe Biden dropping out, but if you think these Democratic heroes are in the pockets of billionaire donors, we have to part ways.

[orangecrush]

1. Trashed

[speak easy]

4. Of course you do.

[Frasier Balzov]

2. Have you heard of any preference Obama may have?

I understand why it would probably be more difficult for him than anyone else in leadership to be frank yet supportive.

[BannonsLiver]

5. FWIW, his relative recent silence could be interpreted as him weighing in without weighing in.

If he doesn’t think Joe should continue I believe that would be something he would tell him face to face and in private rather than humiliating him by issuing a statement or doing an interview where he says that he should step aside. They’re both in a very select club that comes with certain protocols. All that being said I don’t think anyone really knows what Obama is thinking.

[sheshe2]

10. Agreed.

Obama would talk to him in person. They developed a very solid and binding friendship during the eight years of his presidency. He would never say anything to harm the man or his friend.

[Self Esteem]

3. If Schumer & Pelosi had only one choice: win the Senate/House or the Presidency, what do you think they'd choose?

Yeah.

They're beholden to donor money. Don't kid yourself - if the millionaires, even if they're Democratic millionaires, start threatening them by saying they'll withhold money for congressional/senate races if Biden stays in, they're going to absolutely panic.

We're being extorted here, folks.

[Bettie]

8. Exactly, they will choose

mega donors every time.

It's all about the money and we (the ordinary people) don't have enough of it to matter in the process.

And it seems as if the donor class is flexing their muscle to ensure that everyone knows that THEY are in charge, not any of us.

Our votes mean very little if the money people want something else.

[DaBronx]

9. Is there an argument to be made

That they are pragmatic, realizing that they are up against Elon musk and GOP donors?
I am supporting Biden until Joe himself tells us otherwise.

[Seeking Serenity]

60. I think that argument is plausible. Another way of looking at it is

That they're fearing (or hearing or seeing) that the big-money donors that their members absolutely depend upon will withhold their donations to the DCCC, DSCC, and other Democratic PACs that could directly affect them, especially Schumer and Jeffries re: congressional majorities and their leadership of them.

[Hekate]

17. Their long, long records of Democratic Party public service speak for them...

Last edited Thu Jul 18, 2024, 03:50 AM - Edit history (1)

So you feel “extorted”? Is this your way of saying “both parties are the same”?

Do tell. Spit it out. Don’t be shy now.

Named in the OP:
1. Barack Obama; 2. Nancy Pelosi;
3. Chuck Schumer; and 4. Harkem Jefferies.
I don't care what you think are the odds of Joe Biden dropping out, but if you think these Democratic heroes are in the pockets of billionaire donors, we have to part ways.

[Self Esteem]

25. Who's being shy?

I thought I was pretty clear but let me reiterate: I think multiple parties are conspiring against Joe Biden and the 14 million people who voted for him in the Democratic Primary.

I have zero appreciation for any of them. I could give a rat's ass how many years they've been in the party or served. What they're doing right now to our president is shameful.

How's that?

[Hekate]

26. Yup. You just carry on with the ol' bothsiderism.

[Self Esteem]

27. Weird reply.

I mentioned nothing about the other side.

Calling out Democrats who are kneecapping the current DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT is not both-siderism lmao what a bizarre take.

[claudette]

34. The thing is

many things have changed since the primary which cause doubt.

[Self Esteem]

43. The thing is

I don't care.

There's inherent risk to everything. In the summer of 2004, it became apparent that maybe John Kerry wasn't the strongest candidate to run vs Bush. Imagine if the party decided in July, after Kerry won the nomination, that they were going to force him out because his polling vs Bush wasn't good?

Or if in 1992, they did the same with Clinton? In June, 92, despite wrapping up the nomination, Clinton was THIRD in the polls behind Bush and Perot.

Things have changed specifically because some in the party decided to stab Biden in the back because of one bad debate performance. Biden has done everything right since the debate but continues to be undermined by his own party. They are plotting to sabotage him.

Had they united around Biden instead of throwing him under the bus, who knows what the last few weeks would look like. Certainly the narrative wouldn't be a party in chaos.

[claudette]

44. I don't care either

My vote goes to President Biden or any other Democrat on the ticket

[Self Esteem]

45. Cool.

I voted Biden in the primary. If the Democratic elites decide my vote doesn't matter, well they shouldn't ask for it this November.

[claudette]

46. But think of it

Any “non-vote” for a Dem president in November is a vote for the orange felon. Vote Dem

[orange jar]

55. Not voting in November if Biden isn't the nominee is reckless.

Just as reckless and self-defeating as not voting if Biden remains. The goal is to defeat Trump, not arrange a marriage.

[yardwork]

58. Shades of 2016.

[orange jar]

61. Very much so.

[yardwork]

57. I think that's a disgraceful way to speak of Democratic leaders.

I can't believe some of what I'm seeing here. We are not in a cult worshipping one man. I love and admire Joe Biden but I'm not going to start bashing every single other Democrat over this.

That's ridiculous. Listen to yourself.

[betsuni]

31. Thank you.

[Klarkashton]

6. Where where they when there were doubts last year?

Now here we are with our bvds wrapped around our ankles and the press is trump trump trump.
JFC with all of this.

[Hekate]

14. The persons mentioned in the OP have been working hard all along. If you had been paying attention...

…instead of waiting for a chance to pile on in the smear campaign, you would have seen it.

Thank you for your input, though.

[standingtall]

7. I just saw an ad on Youtube last night of Barack Obama raising money

for Biden/Harris 2024 so I highly doubt he is part of the Biden must resign crowd.

[peggysue2]

50. Saw the same ad

So unless we think Barack Obama is lying his ass off, the man is on board and ready to fight like hell.

[AkFemDem]

11. I don't think any of these individuals

Are suspect. I am sure they know and see much we do not. I will continue to campaign for President Biden as long as he’s on the ticket but I won’t demonize party leaders who suggest another way either.

All that said, Obama is someone who very carefully and judiciously offers his commentary when it comes to anything that might interfere with current party politics. He doesn’t just show up on cable news every night opining away. I read nothing in his silence right now other than his normal precaution and wish to stay out of the way of the current administration and I am sure he is weighing the words he will eventually share very carefully.

[betsuni]

12. Democrats beholden to wealthy donors, billionaires and corporations are old Both Sides All Government Corrupt insults

with no evidence to support it. It's ridiculous.

[Mister Ed]

15. No evidence but the donations.

Massive amounts of money are donated to campaigns and PACs. Are the recipients and beneficiaries of big donations really uninfluenced by them?

[betsuni]

16. How have Democrats changed their positions depending on donations?

[Mister Ed]

21. I am not privy to their thoughts, nor their private discussions with donors.

It certainly strains my credulity to think that none of them would ever lend a sympathetic ear to their largest donors.

I'm not speaking of wholesale corruption here, though the Menendez trial proves such corruption exists (and provides a specific example of the sort you've demanded). I'm merely speaking of influence.

I consider myself a strongly ethical person, but if a wealthy donor helped me gain office and then came to my door to talk politics, what would I do? Spit in their eye and slam the door in their face?

Of course major donors have some influence on the recipients of their largesse. Of course they do. And it's not necessarily dirty or unethical. It's only natural.

[betsuni]

22. What are examples (there must be many!) of Democrats changing their policy positions or votes depending on donations?

[Mister Ed]

24. Well, I already gave you one,

although the Menendez case is an example of extreme corruption, and not just everyday influence.

But, having provided an example for you, I now ask you: is your position that politicians remain wholly uninfluenced by their donors, and wholly unreceptive to their opinions on issues?

[betsuni]

30. "massive amounts of money are donated to campaigns and PACs" -- assuming all

donations are about bribing Democrats to adopt right-wing policies? Where is the evidence for that?

Donations give one access, not automatic influence. How would that even work? How would anyone do what all donors want? Otherwise there would be plenty of evidence that Obama, Biden, other Democrats change their positions.

Al Franken:

"Campaign contributions don't buy votes, what they buy is access. That's why lobbyists write campaign checks. They're not bribes. They're grease. ... They may have donated to you not in order to buy your support going forward, but because you've been supporting their good cause all along. And more often, you're not meeting with them because of a check they wrote, but rather because you're on the same team. You're strategizing together how to move the ball forward, and trading useful information about how to achieve a shared goal."

[Mister Ed]

32. That's a colossal strawman.

You're really going to pretend that I've said all donations are about bribing Democrats to adopt right-wing policies?

If you're going to presume to stuff such words in my mouth, then I must bid you goodnight.

[betsuni]

33. Well then, what's it about? Maybe somebody else can explain.

[Dan]

52. I wish I had the links...But Clinton gave the big donors bedroom rights.

[Hekate]

13. You are putting the case very, very politely, & I thank you for it

DU is being snowed under an avalanche of trollery and panic. Any moment now a Gish-galloper will be along to make our joy complete.

[betsuni]

18. A feeding frenzy!

Opportunity to bash Democrats.

[Hekate]

19. It's hard to keep up, but we shall try

[wackadoo wabbit]

20. Then I guess it's time for us to part ways ... n/t

[speak easy]

28. Good for you.

Throw ém under the bus. gotcha.

[Straw Man]

23. If the Democrats didn't have wealthy donors ...

... they wouldn't stand a chance against the heavily-bankrolled Republicans. Is there any reason not to believe that the major concern of donors is a sincere belief that Biden can't win?

Note that I said "belief." Their opinions are no better than anyone else's, but that doesn't mean that their motives are corrupt.

[BootinUp]

29. The point is, we are going to get Hubert Humphreyed because of this late second guessing bullshit. nt

[speak easy]

35. The point is -

Obama, Pelosi, Schumer and Jeffries are likely to be better judges of the situation than us. The idea that they are selling out to billionaires is nonsense.

[BootinUp]

36. People that have not been involved in the campaign are not the best judge. It is this lack of trust in Biden

that is SO INFURIATING

[speak easy]

37. ur " People that have not been involved in the campaign"

I have no boat in this race, but if you wanna trash the leader of the Senate, and our leader in the House, then yes I have something to say: Back off.

[BootinUp]

38. Do your worst because I am definitely pissed off and dgaf.

[speak easy]

39. and vote for our nominee in November,

that is the best we can do.

[BlueTsunami2018]

40. Now who's being naive?

They might be Democrats but they’re still career politicians. You don’t get to be the leadership without being beholden to those sons of bitches. None of those people are pure and holy, in it only for the good of the People.

Let’s be real.

[betsuni]

41. All career politicians are "beholden" all corrupt? What evidence?

Bernie Sanders? Elizabeth Warren? Jim Clyburn? Elijah Cummings? John Lewis? Al Franken? Nancy Pelosi? Kamala Harris? Hillary Clinton? Joe Biden? Barack Obama? Al Gore? Paul Wellstone? John Fetterman? AOC? What evidence? Choosing a career in politics makes one corrupt? What is this?

[BlueTsunami2018]

42. You don't get to the leadership positions without being beholden to someone.

Bernie is an Independent, he has the luxury of going after corporate interests and being a populist. He also gets absolutely nothing passed. He’s one of the few who aren’t beholden but no one of consequence is afraid of him either. Fetterman and AOC just got there, I’d hope they remain true. Franken is gone. Gore has been gone for 25 years. Wellstone is dead.

I think it’s a bit naive to act as if the others don’t have someone holding their leashes. Just look at some of the important votes. Iraq war, bankruptcy, bailouts etc.

That doesn’t mean they haven’t tried to do some good but they aren’t paragons of virtue.

[betsuni]

48. Not the point.

[SharonClark]

49. Isn't Biden a career politician?

[democrattotheend]

51. Yes, exactly

And he himself was the beneficiary of somewhat similar behind-the-scenes maneuvering by the party elite in 2020. Those bashing Obama now didn't seem to mind when Obama came to Biden's aid four years ago after South Carolina by gently encouraging Buttigieg and Klobuchar to drop out of the primaries and throw their support to Biden to prevent Bernie from getting the nomination.

To be clear, I am not alleging that the 2020 primaries were rigged and I didn't even support Bernie in 2020. His campaign people admitted that they had no plan to win a majority of the delegates and were relying on more centrist candidates, including Biden, splitting the vote.

But in light of how 2020 went down, and the fact that Biden has been in Washington for decades and is well-liked and well-respected by so many elected officials makes these claims that the establishment is out to get him for nefarious reasons a little ridiculous. It's possible some donors have turned on him because he's been more progressive economically than they expected, but I think it's more likely they are genuinely concerned about either his actual health or the perception of his health being fatal to his re-election chances.

[BlueTsunami2018]

62. He is.

And he did the work of the credit card companies and other corporate entities in Delaware when he was Senator.

[Wingus Dingus]

47. I agree.

[Faux pas]

53. Left On speak easy!!!!!!!

[Zeitghost]

54. Well said

We can disagree on what the best path to victory is.

Anyone claiming that our longest serving and highest ranking party leaders are being controlled by Netanyahu or Billionaires wanting tax cuts is engaging in slander against our party.

[yardwork]

56. I'm with you.

I actually don't particularly like or trust Schumer, but I greatly admire Nancy Pelosi. I doubt that all these leaders have suddenly been bribed or blackmailed by Democratic donors.

I'm ready to wait and see how things unfold. I'm not going to have hysterics or join in the Democratic Party bashing.

Whoever's on our ticket come November I will fight like hell to elect them.