To ban or not to ban? More people believing declawing is animal abuse

[The Straight Story]

To ban or not to ban?
More people believing declawing is animal abuse

The first time I met animal lover Joyce Smith she told me how horrible it is to declaw a cat.
...

Plus, according to an information sheet on the Second Chance website, declawing cats may just shift the problem of scratched furniture to another one altogether. Paw sensitivity resulting from the operation may lead to litter box avoidance, meaning they may use furniture or carpets instead.
...

I've read on numerous websites against declawing that it is 10 different amputations equivalent to cutting off a human's fingertips. Ouch.

"The public is not educated on how harmful and abusive this procedure is," said Deidre Wilson, founder of Mississauga-based Adopt Me Canada Cat Rescue.

...
Since June the group has collected 3,000 signatures through an online petition and have nearly 1,000 members in an application called "causes" on Facebook.

http://www.durhamregion.com/community/petsanimals/article/1282553--to-ban-or-not-to-ban

[FSogol]

1. My sister works for a vet out in rural VA. They won't declaw animals. n/t

[ProfessionalLeftist]

2. Many veterinarians won't perform the procedure anymore. n/t

[HockeyMom]

3. While I don't like, or have ever, declawed my cats

I do cut their nails to take off the sharp points. They still have nails, just not razor sharp ones

[Gormy Cuss]

23. Yes, and if claw trimming is done when they're kittens they don't even protest that much.

My adopted-as-an-adult cat hates it but he's learned that it doesn't hurt and he gets a treat after I'm done trimming. He barely squirms anymore.

Another alternative is SoftPaws.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. Same Here

Actually i don't trim any more using cutters. I use a Dremel tool with a little barrel shaped grinder. EVen if they reflexively pull away they can't get hurt. The first couple of times they didn't like the noise or the feeling, but they barely react to it anymore.

Also, it's really good to use it on the big dog. He's strong enough that if he wants to, he can pull his paw away from me. This tool is WAY safer.
GAC

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

94. I should use a Dremel on my cat

I'm sure it'll work just as well as using the hair dryer or vaccuum cleaner.

[Dorian Gray]

51. clipping and declawing

are two totally different beasts. I clip my cats nails every few weeks. She doesn't mind at all, actually. Probably because she gets brushed afterwards, and she loves that. But declawing? No way! I don't know how much it hurts, but claws have a physical purpose. Even though my indoor cat doesn't need them all that much, I believe it would be a psychological (on top of physically) painful loss for her.

[HockeyMom]

54. You have to cut their nails, especially indoor cats

If for no other reason than for safety. Yes, they will try to bite their nails, but clipping works better. If you don't, they will use the furniture, rugs, etc., to dull their nails. If they have sharp points they can harm themselves when scratching, or their housemates in play, whether human or feline.

They need clipping for safety and comfort.

[GodlessBiker]

4. NYC's Animal Medical Center, a premiere animal hospital, told me that ...

while they would declaw my cat's front paws, they would not declaw the back, as those nails are in much deeper and are more vital to a cat. They believe declawing the back nails is cruel and they convinced me not to do the back, though I did do the front.

It is a serious operation, taking days to recover. I have not seen any adverse effects, including litter box avoidance, though I'm not the cat.

[cilla4progress]

5. Not a good time to answer the question

Right now, my new kitten is tearing around the house...and up and down the couch

[IADEMO2004]

6. Is owning a pet animal abuse?

[ret5hd]

8. for some people, yeah.

[The Straight Story]

10. Well, if it is, people should just open up their doors

And those folks at Cat Ranch rescue are really in big trouble...

[matt819]

7. Does everything on the planet need to legislated?

I seem to working toward a baker's dozen cats and dogs, and there's no way I would do this. But does it really require legislation?

[tammywammy]

9. There's no reason to declaw a cat

Provide a scratching post and trim their nails.

[cthulu2016]

11. But chopping out their gonads is a caring gesture.

Just noting the obvious. In an environment where we almost require neutering the argument gets weird.

I grew up with declawed cats who were happy creatures and prodigious hunters and tree-climbers. I loved them. In my house would not have had cats if they had claws.

My own cats, as an adult, I did not declaw because I don't care about furniture. On the other hand, once they started going into heat they were not fit company, even though they were strictly indoor and would not have gotten pregant.

Yes... I got them fixed to stop the continual howling.

That sounds very cruel, to cut out a cat's innards to modify her behavior. But I would be applauded for paying for that particular operation by almost everyone.

[Warpy]

16. The problem is us

We don't boot our pregnant cats outdoors to let Mother Nature take care of any overbreeding. We provide the cat with a nice warm house so all her kittens will survive. Four litters of six year after year gets problematic. Eventually the community hits the saturation point on cats.

Were we utterly heartless, we'd put them outdoors where the kittens would die of exposure and predators.

[ZombieHorde]

26. I agree cutting off an animal's nuts is pretty fucked up.

People who advocate it don't truly have the animal's best interest in mind, they have their own interest in mind.

[ProfessorGAC]

28. Disagree

Strenuously.

[ZombieHorde]

31. Cutting the nuts off non-human animals doesn't benefit them anymore

than cutting them off a human. We do it for our sake. We do it make them more viable as pets. People want to own dogs and cats, so our neighborhoods are filled them, and they breed like crazy. We don't want them to breed like crazy, so we "fix" them. We don't have to fill our neighborhoods with dogs and cats. It is all about us.

[The Straight Story]

32. Simple Solution:

Hire kids at the elementary schools to cut off their nuts (after their janitor jobs are done), cook em, and feed the homeless.

Less wild animals running about eating birds/etc, kids can make money doing real stuff (instead of learning in school), and people get to eat.

Yeah...I stole it all from Newt.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. You'd need an awful lot of cat testicles just to feed one homeless person.

[Zalatix]

88. Awww MAN, you had me going for a second. Jonathan Swift eat your heart out!

[ProfessorGAC]

60. And?

I already said i disagree with you. Repeating yourself isn't going to make me change my mind.
GAC

[ZombieHorde]

67. I thought you may have wanted to back up your opinion with critical thinking.

My mistake.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. O K

First, you didn't. You merely repeated yourself. That's hardly critical thinking. That being said:

You're entire premise is flawed. The very notion that spaying and neutering is done solely for the benefit of the pet owner is an opinion with no basis in fact. The sheer numbers of pets that must be euthanized each year suggest that spaying and neutering reduces the number of animals that MUST BE KILLED! Are you capable of understanding the value of reducing the number of animals that must be expunged?

Secondly, there are hormonal urges that pets undergo that make being homebound much harder to take. There is a calming psychological effect when the pets don't undergo hormonal swings they can't possibly be made to understand.

Now, i know there are some words that may be beyond you and some lines of thinking you are willfully avoiding, but i thought it abundantly clear that i disagreed with EVERYTHING about your post.

And, it strikes me that you have quite the hubris to assume that you're the only one who KNOWS that spaying and neutering is a bad idea when virtually every animal welfare group and vet organizations encourage the practice.

Happy now?

[ZombieHorde]

83. "reduces the number of animals that MUST BE KILLED!"

Unless we lack all free will, we don't have to kill them. The only reason we do kill them is to alleviate our own suffering. We don't like seeing them starving in the streets, so we round them up and kill them. They don't want to be killed.

"Are you capable of understanding the value of reducing the number of animals that must be expunged?"

Are you capable of understanding the difference between subjectivity and objectivity? All value is subjective. The animals we are killing don't value the number reduction the way we do. They wouldn't sacrifice themselves for this goal, but we will sacrifice them for this goal.

"Secondly, there are hormonal urges that pets undergo that make being homebound much harder to take. There is a calming psychological effect when the pets don't undergo hormonal swings they can't possibly be made to understand."

They don't want to be homebound, but we want them to be homebound, so we operate on them to change them to conform to our will. This is obviously for our benefit. We don't have to have pets, we just want pets very badly. We could treat them like deer or squirrels, but that would make us sad, so we bring many into our homes, and we kill many others.

And, it strikes me that you have quite the hubris to assume that you're the only one who KNOWS that spaying and neutering is a bad idea when virtually every animal welfare group and vet organizations encourage the practice.

I'm the first to admit "bad" is a value call, and therefore completely subjective. However, since having pets is completely optional, and as you have pointed out, many pets don't want to be homebound, the operations and the killings are strictly for our benefit. We created the current situation for our benefit, and we perpetuate the current situation for our benefit.

When we feed starving people, there is mutual desire. We don't want to see people starve, and starving people want food. Both parties involved fully agree to the situation. This is not the case with castrating animals. They don't want to be castrated to prevent the abandonment of future generations, we want them to be castrated to prevent the abandonment of future generations.

[ProfessorGAC]

91. Critical Thinking, Huh?

Really? Saying the same thing 3 times is not evidence of critical thinking. And since i don't care to write a novel about this issue, we will continue to completely disagree.

[ZombieHorde]

93. I have addressed your arguments. You have failed to address mine.

You cannot address my arguments, because you would have to admit that I am right.

The truth I am pointing out is fairly obvious.

[Zalatix]

89. Next they'll be doing it to humans.

That's not much of a leap, ya know.

[jsmirman]

29. Second the outrageousness of this

to advocate against spaying and neutering is to be a huge, pom pom waving fan of animal suffering.

If you're really that gung ho about it, why don't you get some pom poms and post a picture of yourself posing in front of a sign that says "I am a HUGE fan of animals suffering!"

[cthulu2016]

35. Doh!

My bad. I thought you were replying to me.

Carry on.

[jsmirman]

43. Oh - just saw your edit

So these are just some general thoughts on the situation:

How can I heap the love and affection I do on my own little guy and not give a shit about the suffering of homeless animals and the crushing constancy of the millions of cats and dogs that are "put down" in this country every year?

The Humane Society estimates that FOUR million cats and dogs are "put down" every year in this country.

This would mean that approximately every EIGHT SECONDS a cat or dog is killed in this country because they are unwanted or inconvenient or pose a danger to the public health.

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/pet_overpopulation/

This link suggests that spaying and neutering actually IS positive for the animals involved: http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=667

Sure, I would be pretty darn opposed to someone cutting my nuts off, but the animal overpopulation issue is real, it is out there, and it is only going to get worse every day. Any claims that this is about us wanting pets is to close one's ears and pretend that the catastrophic current situation doesn't exist. It seems like sophistry over actual compassion.

[cthulu2016]

50. I support spay and neuter

As my post says, I have never had a cat declawed and I have had two cats fixed.

I do, however, find the level of complaint about declawing to be strange because spaying and neutering is considered a good thing.

My initial response (which I apologize for) was because I misread the connecting lines and thought that you were saying I am an anti-spay advocate, though my post says the opposite.

I am all for it.

[jsmirman]

58. Supporting spaying and neutering

is a-ok in my book.

[Ohio Joe]

34. It may not be in the best interests of the animal it is done to but...

It is almost certainly in the best interest of the other animal it might get pregnant.

[ZombieHorde]

38. Perhaps according to our mindset, but the other animal probably wanted to produce offspring.

"Overpopulation" of cats and dogs was created by our desire to have awesome pets. We created the situation to satisfy our own desires, then we deemed the situation bad, so we decided to start hacking balls off. We force their flesh to conform to our will.

[Ohio Joe]

42. Well... Yes

But I'm on the side of the fence that thinks having pets is a good thing... My last cat had me as a pet for over 18 years

[ZombieHorde]

47. When I get out of school, and get a real job, I will probably get a dog and cut his nuts off.

Well, I won't cut them off, but I will pay someone else to cut them off. I just know it's more about me than him.

[uppityperson]

87. Had a vet give my dog a vasectomy yrs ago. Took the dog in for neutering, vet asked why.

Taken aback, i told him because I didn't want him making puppies. Further questions came as to did I want to change the dog's behavior otherwise. For instance, if he was aggressive, neutering would make him be less aggressive, fight less. Was he a leg humper or did he do other things that getting rid of the hormones might change.

To be honest, he was the most wonderful dog I've ever known and I didn't want his behavior changed at all. We decided that avoiding puppymaking was the goal, so he got a vasectomy and came home.

The aftermath was humorous. I told the guy I was living with he got a vasectomy, like people do. He was adamant that nothing had happened since the dog's testes were still there. I explained again, just like people get. He thought that a man getting a vasectomy involved cutting his nuts off.

Then there was the issue with getting him licensed. I finally got a note from the vet explaining yes, he was unable of making puppies and got the lower rate pet license.

I haven't heard of another vet mentioning this as an option.

[jsmirman]

46. So you would just prefer we pretend that the current situation doesn't exist

what the heck good is your argument IN THIS CURRENT PRESENT?

The only thing that seems relevant, as I posit above, is that 4 million cats or dogs are killed every year in this country because of the animal overpopulation problem - meaning about ONE IS KILLED EVERY EIGHT SECONDS.

In the amount of time it took me to type this post, four or five cats or dogs just got "put down."

What the heck good is your sophistry? It sure seems like a lack of compassion.

[ZombieHorde]

53. We kill those animals for our benefit, not theirs.

We generally say it is for their benefit, but that is a lie. We don't like the idea of their suffering, but we don't want to give up our pets, so we kill a bunch of them and sterilize them.

What the heck good is your sophistry?

My argument is not false, it is very true, and it is only good for those who wish to be truly honest with themselves. There is a violent side to our pet ownership. We kill and brutalize the animals we love so we can feel good.

It sure seems like a lack of compassion.

I am just pointing out one truth about our society. The only thing I am advocating is recognition of the truth.

[jsmirman]

59. How does this make any sense?

I am the caretaker of a lovely and loving cat. He is, of course, a found cat - thus, I have removed one animal from the overpopulated ranks of cats and dogs. My cat was neutered, and so I contribute zero animals to animal overpopulation. He is extremely happy and leads what I think any fair judge would say is a pretty excellent life.

The animals that are already left out there, if left to their own devices, will continue to increase the overpopulation numbers to ever more catastrophic levels:

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/pet_overpopulation/

http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=667 (this link suggests that spaying and neutering actually IS positive for the animals involved)

Please explain the glorious scenario that you believe your thinking will lead to.

What you are advocating is turning a blind eye to the animal overpopulation issue, and allowing those animals to suffer with increased numbers leading to competition for the already meager resources that "sustain" them (their lifespan is woefully short and is, more often than not, filled with suffering and privation).

"Your argument is not false" - your argument is a fucking argument. Me? I favor actually trying to do something about the situation because I *do* care about both the animals that are out there and the animals that will be born in the next minutes and hours and will enter an increasingly cruel world.

[ZombieHorde]

62. I am only advocating that people see the truth of pet ownership.

I have already said that I when I get a dog, I will have it castrated. However, the castration is for my benefit, not his. I don't want to see the animals suffer, but I still want a dog. So I will have that dog hurt to satisfy my sensibilities, not the dog's sensibilities.

We created the overpopulation problem because we like to own pets. This whole situation is our doing.

We don't sterilize deer, or kill them, when their numbers grow beyond their resources; we just let them starve. Why is this?

"Please explain the glorious scenario that you believe your thinking will lead to."

People not lying to themselves about sterilizing their animals and the nature of pet ownership.

(this link suggests that spaying and neutering actually IS positive for the animals involved)

That is a human opinion, based on other human opinions. "Suffering is bad" = human opinion. It is one that I hold, but it is still an opinion.

[jsmirman]

68. I can't take this any further

I just can't.

The last thing I'd say is you put forth: "We created the overpopulation problem because we like to own pets. This whole situation is our doing."

The situation exists.

That seems far more important than whatever mental exercise you're engaged in.

I also don't get who this "we" is. And I don't get why, whatever this "we" is, that "we" should not be attempting to meet a problem that exists. This problem would not go away - here, in 2012 - in the slightest if "we" decided to stop loving pets.

And if you want to get into the deer situation, you could expand this "debate" endlessly. I will say that a great deal of the deer tragedy is the result of HUMAN overexpansion, as we've eaten into so many of their natural habitats. But I'm out of time to string this into an endless string of subject-diverting arguments. I do also wonder if you are aware of how many cats and dogs who are homeless and suffering are animals that were once pets and were callously "discarded." Don't see a lot of pet deer. Not trying to be speciesist, just noting why their might be a different level of responsibility to one than the other. What has happened to deer thanks to destruction of their habitat sucks, as well. And when it comes to abandoning a pet, that is one "we" I will insist you not group me in. I can't even fathom being such a blackhearted excuse for a human being.

[ZombieHorde]

69. You are concerned about the plight of dogs and cats, so you want them sterilized.

Dogs and cats don't want to be sterilized, humans want them to be sterilized. Humans do it for their own benefit. Humans do it so they can decrease their numbers, and feel better about the situation.


If the dogs and cats wanted to be sterilized, then the feeling would be mutual, and the sterilization wouldn't be strictly selfish.

I am not trying to accuse you of abandoning pets. I think most pet owners are very loving and appreciative of their animals, but sterilizing them is still for our benefit. We do it because seeing them suffer makes us sad.

[Drahthaardogs]

79. Your hypothesis on the cause of deer problems is the opposite of the truth

Deer are overpopulated because modern agriculture produces unlimited food supply so a very important ecological limiting agent has been removed.. in 1900 there were about 500,000 deer, in 2012 there are 20 MILLION!!. Human expansion and habitat loss is NOT the problem. We created MORE habitat by planting field and windbreaks.

[sendero]

78. Your position...

... is a knee jerk reaction and not thought out.

Neutering cats and dogs saves untold numbers from death from exposure or euthanization in shelters.

Comparing it to declawing is fallacious.

[ZombieHorde]

85. I didn't make the comparison, I posted a reply to someone's story about sterilizing pets.

My position is only that we recognize the fact we sterilize animals for our benefit, not their benefit. We don't have to have pets. We don't have to kill unwanted pets anymore than we have to kill unwanted deer or squirrels. We do these things because not doing them makes us sad.

I am not asking people to change behavior, I am asking people to recognize the truth about ourselves.

[rox63]

12. I would never do it, and my vet won't do it

I think it is cruel. I just trim my kitties' claws every couple of weeks, and they have learned to use scratching posts. They don't scratch my furniture at all

[Warpy]

13. More and more vets are refusing to do it.

I have to admit that the only time I'd ever do it as a vet is if the alternative would be to have the cat put down because the owner was having a hissy fit over destroyed antiques.

I was around cats during my own childhood and always sported a scratch or two, it was no big deal. My mother always crabbed about the (secondhand) furniture, so the cats and I spent most of our time outdoors.

I've tolerated scratch marks on furniture and my looms because I didn't want to see the cat in pain. It's one of those things I would never do to an animal. However, I've seen cats post declawing and they seem perfectly fine, still going after the furniture as though their claws were still there.

So it would be a last resort, probably after a cat behaviorist was called in and all education of the owner had been attempted. And I would do it very, very reluctantly and make sure the poor cat had plenty of pain medication afterward. And I'd strongly suggest the antiques owners get a little fussy dog the next time.

[kestrel91316]

17. Post-op declawed cats absolutely delight in rubbing furniture without being reprimanded.

I have never liked the idea of constantly discouraging a cat from engaging in perfectly natural behavior.

[kestrel91316]

14. I did it only very rarely, when I felt it was the only appropriate solution. I averaged 2/year.

Now, of course, I am legally barred from doing it unless there is medical justification. The city of Los Angeles passed an ordinance banning it. So people who want declaws just go down the street a ways for it.

Cities and counties are now banned by state law from regulating the practice of veterinary medicine, so we won't see any additional localities trying to tell me how to do my job.. I support that change.

Properly performed declaws DO NOT cause any permanent physical or psychological harm to cats. We have really good pain meds for use in cats in the immediate post-op period. That said, I always considered it a LAST resort and absolutely never a first choice, and never to be done for frivolous reasons. I lost MANY clients over the years for refusing to do them on demand and instead only when I felt all other options had proved fruitless. Oh, and I always refused 4-paw declaws.

I managed to piss off everyone. Not only those many people I said no to, but also the folks who oppose them under all circumstances. Cest la vie.

ETA: I have been in practice 31 years, 21 of those in an exclusive feline practice, and I have never seen litter avoidance develop post-declaw. When litter avoidance occurs, it is invariably due to husbandry issues or it's breed-related (Persians are noted for this).

[Warpy]

18. Yeah, it's a fine line to walk

and we can't go through life without getting some bunch of folks pissed off at us.

Thanks for doing them so infrequently. What do you think about Soft Claws? They've worked wonders for some cats I know, but I was wondering about side effects like some of the nasty infections we've seen in women who wear false fingernails.

[kestrel91316]

61. Soft Paws work for some people. The main problem is, you have to dick around with the cat's paws

so much, and so often. If you have a cat that gets violently aggressive when their paws are messed with (as is often the case, since the owners can't usually clip the claws either), SP simply isn't going to be an option.

AND when the claws grow, if the cat tries to use them on something with an open-ish weave, they can get caught and serious injury can result.

[Occulus]

22. I had to have one of my cats declawed; it was entirely my fault

At the time I got him (he was given to me a tad too early, I think- kitteh was palm-sized) I didn't have a lot of friends and he wasn't properly socialized early on, so he definitely has his own ideas now, ten years later, about who gets to touch him. Had I left him his front claws, he'd have sent people to the hospital for stitches because of how hard he swats when he doesn't like someone.

He did that to me once, very recently. I was suffering a severe sinus headache (really, a sinus migraine), and my moaning and crying was freaking him out. Instead of running and hiding, he came up to the bed, made a small, hurt noise, and swatted me on the shoulder. HARD. It actually stung.

I was so surprised and, well, touched, that I forgot the headache. He really is a sweetie.

Oh, and I won't ever declaw a cat again. That was the last time. He really would have seriously injured certain people if he had them, though.

[yellowcanine]

15. Only if the cat owner agrees to have their fingernails removed.

That would probably put a stop to it. Goose....Gander.

[kctim]

19. Banning declawing

would only lead to back alley declawing with plyers.

Education, not legislation.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. I think it's cruel.

[ceile]

21. I think most vets these days are against it.

I'd vote for a ban.

[benld74]

24. We have 4 cats, 2-14 year olds and 2-9 month olds,,,,

The first 2, we DID declaw their front paws. Only afterwards did we read about what actually occurs. We FELT SO BAD!
The last 2, we are NOT declawing them. We have had our share of scratch etc, on the way to losing a chair in the basement, but the guilt is not there!

Oh and by the way, the youngsters DO NOT have ANYTHING over the old gals! All the old gals have to do is hiss at them, and the youngsters high tails it outta the way!

[Archae]

25. Years ago the Learning Channel had a show about cats, they showed a kitten being declawed.

I was horrified.
Still am.

When I found Lucky, my b/w girl, she had already been declawed.

I trim Charlotte's claws myself, with a fingernail clipper.
She complains and squirms, but she gets a treat of catnip after.

[Yooperman]

30. The cat I adoped from the pound had it's front paws declawed.

I can't say I would do it if I was the original owner but with that said... having had cats in the past destroy furniture of mine... it is a relief that this isn't a problem anymore.

My present cat is very affectionate... loving (call him a lap cat as he loves to be held and petted, even from complete strangers) and has zero problems with his box.

He had been found skinny and dirty b4 he was brought to the animal shelter. I can only imagine that his hunting skills were greatly diminished from not having front claws. Although he has caught a half a dozen mice since I adopted him.

[Ruby the Liberal]

33. I absolutely refuse to declaw a cat

Not when they can be trained, and yes, it takes patience.

I have had declawed cats in the past and never had any issues with them when it comes to litter. I also didn't take the time to train them when it came to where to scratch or not, because it never mattered, so they were allowed to exercise on the carpet and the couch.

My biggest recommendation is to find a substance (like sisal) that the cat enjoys and stick with it. People who buy 'cat scratching toys' made of some kind of fabric or carpet are often surprised when the cat doesn't see the difference between their designated scratching thing and the regular furniture or carpet. Doh! Choose something like sisal and then don't have anything else sisal in the house (including plant containers). Kitty will glom onto that, learn that if its sisal, its his and there ya go.

They also make sprays that encourage/discourage scratching on various specific items (depending on need). I haven't had to do that, but its good to know they exist.

My little beastie is a good girl. She will wake from a nap and walk across the house to her sisal to start her stretches and scratchings. I trim all 4 paws about once every 10 days. We call it a mani-pedi spa day and she gets a good girl cookie afterwards.

[Yooperman]

37. What a beautiful cat!!

I love the markings and color. How old is she in the photo?

[Ruby the Liberal]

45. She came to me about 4.5, so that is 6?

She was a rescue and very very sick. She will be 7 in March, so probably about 2 pounds heavier.

Thanks for the kind words. She is truly a princess.

[SharonAnn]

41. OOOh! She looks like my Bengal.

Mine was already declawed when I got her. She was three years old and seems to be pretty independent and pretty untrainable. She only learns not to do certain things when I'm in the room.

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. Yay for Bengals!

She is an F4, so had the advantage of being trained for a few years by a breeder before she was put into her first home. They couldn't handle the excess amount of energy that is inherent in the breed, so I got her in a rescue. Poor thing was really sick when I took her in, but she is adjusting well.

Training them on scratching is so temperament driven and some really require a lot more patience than others. What I did in the beginning was to have sisal everywhere,, removed anything even slightly reminiscent of sisal, and encouraged her to claw away at will. Over the next year, I was able to introduce wicker-type things back into the house and remove the excessive sisal and now she sticks with 2 pieces. Probably couldn't have done this if she was too much older (or healthier!). I think nursing her back to good health probably played a role in the bonding and training acceptance (wanting to please). Had she been fully healthy when I took her in, I don't think I would have gotten as far due to that independent streak you mentioned.

[JesterCS]

66. beautiful cat. n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

74. Thank you kindly on behalf of her.

[hardcover]

72. What a beautiful cat!

Just beautiful.

[Ruby the Liberal]

75. I appreciate the kind remarks.

They are a beautiful breed, but quite the handful. LOL!

[davsand]

36. I do not like the idea of declawing cats. Having said that, I did have one declawed years ago.

She was a rescue, and she was, to be blunt, a vicious cat. I lived for a year with that cat and my hands and arms looked like hamburger. It came down to the point that she was so aggressive I was either gonna have to have her put down or else have her declawed. The local shelter would not have even tried to adopt her out and I knew that a surrender was a death sentence. After one especially brutal attack, I took her back to the vet and her vet was very blunt with me that he felt there were no other alternatives.

Tillie(You Bitch) was a beautiful medium haired tabby that had the most amazing green eyes you have ever seen. Sometimes she could be a most loving cat, sometimes she would attack me as I walked into a room. She had been horribly abused as a kitten and never did recover fully. I was able to bring her back to physical health but her relationship with humans was damaged terribly. I could not feel right about having her euthanized--I figured she'd been betrayed by humans enough already.

I hated it at the time, still feel bad about doing it, but it was the only thing I could do. She lived with me for 17 years until her kidneys failed.



Laura

[The Straight Story]

39. Sounds like you did the right thing, but you could have tried medical pot (and some pics)

[davsand]

55. Was the pot for me or her?

Just asking cause I want to be clear about the subject...




I think that if I was facing that same situation now, there are probably more options available than there were back then. Dunno for sure, but it seems to me like things like soft paws and even phermone sprays were just not around at the time. I'm pretty sure that if they had been, her vet would have suggested it and I'd have tried it. Her vet was the chair for the local animal shelter board and he provided free care for the critters while they were in the shelter. I chose him as her vet for that very reason. He understood what she had been thru and he had experience with other animals like her.

Literally, that cat was in a place where I either took her or they were gonna kill her. She was a kitten, badly abused, malnourished, flea covered, and full of worms. I took the cat--in spite of being in a "no-pets lease"--figuring I'd be able to find somebody that would take her. Her physical condition was so poor that none of my friends could afford either the expense or the time it was gonna take to re-hab her.

Literally, I think maybe I was that cat's last chance and I just could not let her die. I still miss her even if she was a complete bitch.



Laura

[AtomicKitten]

40. The cruel practice should be outlawed.

so sayeth me

[Ter]

48. Scratching my couch is people abuse

I have an indoor cat that I yell at daily. I say "Stop sharpening your claws! There are no wild animals coming in this house that are going to harm you." Despite 7 years of peace, he still sharpens his weapons daily.

[Ruby the Liberal]

52. Have you tried to find him an alternate target?

They make these cool little 's' shaped cat scratcher things that don't take over a room like a stand/tree and really let them get the aggression/exercise out.

[davsand]

56. They are stretching when they do that--did you know that?

Think of it as a form of isometric excercise for kitties cause that is exactly what it is.

If he's gonna scratch anyway, you might want to consider getting a sisal wrapped post for him to use. Rub it down with catnip, and keep it covered with catnip for a while, and he'll soon figure out it is "his."

Look at it this way--you got your furniture and he probably would like his own.



Laura

[Skip Intro]

57. Ban it. If you can't have a cat wihtout declawing it, don't have a cat. nt

[MadrasT]

63. ^^^ This ^^^

It's horribly abusive and should be outlawed.

[graywarrior]

64. Ban it

It's barbaric.

[JesterCS]

65. I had my cat declawed and fixed.

more to protect our other cats and himself from expensive vet bills for lacerations and such. Plus furniture doesnt like cats. I personally don't see it as wrong, but my cat doesnt go outside, so he hasnt a need for his claws.

Plus have you ever had a cat jump on your stomach in the middle of the night and start kneading your stomach with claws.... ow. lol

[Skip Intro]

76. As long as it's all about you. nt

[JesterCS]

82. lol

why does everyone have to attack a person just because they hold a different view on something minor?

[Skip Intro]

90. Because the mutilation of an innocent, defenseless animal lies in the balance. nt

Last edited Sat Jan 21, 2012, 10:50 PM - Edit history (2)

[JesterCS]

96. well

my cat doesnt seem to mind. He's missing his tail to ( though that was since birth )

Granted I'm sure it was painful and hurt and all that, got it down as a kitten. Not much different from getting circumcision. I don't even remember that pain. and I'm only 30.

But I can see people's point.

[pansypoo53219]

70. poppycock.

all my cats have been declawed. they are hostages + never go outside. the do everything but climb screens or drapes. and they never saw a 20 year old cat w/ it's paws stuck in a rug. they have no memory of claws. + the way my current pair fight, maybe saved me some vet trips.

[flvegan]

71. Like any cosmetic alteration (declawing, ear cropping, tail docking), absolutely animal abuse.

[a la izquierda]

73. My vet will not declaw or perform any cosmetic procedures.

I think declawing is abhorrent. When I had a cat, she was not declawed. It was her survival mechanism if she got out or if our dogs messed with her too much.

[justiceischeap]

80. Declawing sucks!

And for all those complaining about your furniture... maybe instead of getting the cat declawed, you should have thought about your love of furniture before acquiring said companion animal.

My cats have all their claws and sometimes I see them scratching the furniture... they know better because as soon as I say, "Nuh-uh" they stop. I then gather them up and trim their nails. I find it's their way of letting me know, that I've been slacking as their caretaker.

[Mumble]

81. Owned 3 declawed cats and 1 not declawed over the years

No behavior problems from any of my 3 declawed cats. Acted pretty much normal for a cat. Had males and females. Keep all three indoors. The one cat that was not declawed was an indoor/outdoor every day cat. Had to protect the furniture form her. Sooner or lated a clawed cat will get at your furniture. Too much trouble dealing with that issue if you want to protect your furniture. Cat owner for 30 years. Don't see any problem with declawing if you want to go that route. The cats I'm sure would rather fine a home and be declawed that be destroyed at the shelter because nobody would adopt them for fear they would have their furniture destroyed. And don't give me that business of you should train your cat with a scratch post. It's nearly impossible to train any cat to do anything.

[tammywammy]

84. I have two cats, both with their claws and fully intact furniture

Apparently you can teach them to not scratch furniture, because neither of mine do. I do trim their nails, but they use their scratching posts.

[polly7]

86. My cat wouldn't be here if he'd been declawed.

Neighbour's dogs have chased him up trees more times than I can count. They've already killed the semi-wild rabbits that used to hang around. I understand that a lot of people have no choice in keeping their cats inside, but I'm lucky enough to have a big yard and he never leaves it. Declawing him would be taking away his only defense. I just think it's cruel.

[zipplewrath]

92. Alot of hyperbole

I understand folks don't like declawing, and I understand why. But the hyperbole shouldn't be needed to make the point. FRONT claws don't result in any long term permanent issue, and really these days the pain the animal experiences is virtually non-existent. They're drugged for about a day and even at that they can be fairly playful, even with the bandages on.

That said, one does have to make the decision "early". Get it done when the animal is "Fixed". The animal should grow up without them, not have them removed at 2 years or something. Furthermore, one is obligated at that point not to expose them to hostile predators, which basically means "indoors".

As a few people have suggested, this is predominately a moral issue associated with pet ownership at all, and with what minimum living conditions one thinks is morally required to have them. After that, the question then extends to what medical procedures are considered morally consistent.

I've seen 3 legged dogs. I've known of dogs getting chemo. The animal can't understand what is happening and chemo is bad enough for someone who does understand what's going on. I'm always curious what the decision process is behind these decisions.

[Ruby the Liberal]

95. "Basically" means indoors?

[zipplewrath]

97. Can't know every situation

People here have very large outdoor screened areas (around pools and such) and one could argue if they are indoors or not. I've also seen rather extensive "cat runs" built which are long screened tunnels that protect them from predators, but expose them some what to the "out of doors".