General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFirstRead: Republicans Ready to Fold?
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/05/15698744-first-thoughts-know-when-to-holdem-know-when-to-foldem?lite
I am a little bit concerned (and please note my post count and length of membership here if you think I am a troll) that we could win the battle but lose the war here. If the president gets the middle class tax cut without the cut for the top 2%, what is to stop the Republicans from then extorting either the cut on the top 2% or big cuts to entitlements when the debt ceiling is due to be raised? I have been reading David Corn's book, and while the president's willingness to accept an eventually 2 year hike in the Medicare eligibility age and changes to the COLA format are disturbing, the Republicans wanted far larger and more fundamental cuts. What is to stop them from extorting either one?
I am starting to think that a deal to avert the "cliff" that includes raising the debt ceiling is a better option, since the president arguably has more leverage now, with the tax hikes and defense cuts scheduled to hit if he does nothing. If they send him a bill that cuts taxes for the middle class and restores the defense cuts, it kind of puts him in a box, because if he signs that he gives up a lot of leverage for the debt ceiling fight.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Just as the fiscal cliff will be blamed on them, failing to increase the debt ceiling will also be blamed on them.
If I'm Obama, I take a lesson from the last go around and continue in campaign mode regardless. Push people to force the GOP to increase the debt ceiling, pointing to the loss of AAA status on our debt the last time they did this.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)With the middleclass cuts off the table, the gop frame will be: "We gave you tax cuts; but we can't raise the debt ceiling without you making significant cuts to 'entitlements' ... It's all about the deficit, remember?"
And many on the right will fall in line.
I'm hoping, in the debt ceiling talks, the President Obama administration re-visits his Jobs Plan, as in "America needs the gop to raise the debt ceiling so that we can get people back to work."
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Said so today, in fact.
So the fight is on.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)is a outcome of all the meetings with CEOs and romney folks.
It would make sense that President Obama would go to "the Markets" and tell them, "I anticipate a fight over raising the debt ceiling. We all remember the effect that the previous fight had on market certainty ... Well, I want to remove that uncertainty, and here's how you can help ..."
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I may have called it!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/05/top-two-percent-tax_n_2245596.html?utm_hp_ref=politics
Livluvgrow
(377 posts)where is the word Bluff
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)What would you suggest the president do? Tell the America people he changed his mind on supporting the current bill that Rep Pelosi is trying to force to the floor?
Also, giving up something today on the idea (or promise) that there is a better deal later has not work yet. The president is negotiating with terrorists.
I say take what you can get now and when they try to extort, force their hand and make it clear to the America people what's going on.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)But couldn't he refuse to cancel the defense cuts until they raise the debt ceiling? I am still a little murky on how this works.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)hold tight. They know that they're in a death spiral, and the leadership will be deposed. The problem is we don't know what will come next.
daa
(2,621 posts)I am 64 and my wife is almost 60. Where the fuck do we get another 2 years of money for health care? We paid, we earned, and planned retirement accordingly. Frozen pensions by corporations and now getting it stuck to us by dems is too much. So much for a mandate?
Compromise? Where was the compromise of the defense bill? To see who could raise it the most.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The question is will it happen soon enough to get Obama's offered deal passed before Xmas? Or do we go off the "cliff"? I don't think there is any chance at all that the Republicans will get themselves together enough to come up with a real alternative bill.
wandy
(3,539 posts)But you see Teapublicans are not smart poker players. They will look at that 'vegetable soup' hand, look at their corporate masters and convince themselves that the Democratic party can't possibly have a better hand.
They will just double down.
Sure it might cause them some trouble. It might even cost them the next election. Still, disobeying their masters WILL cost them their next election.
To their pimps, one empty Teapublican suit is as good as any other. As long as their bidding is done.
What was it lord Grover said. Just needs five fingers and can work a pin.