General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust watch a story on the CBS Nightly News about a family making $64,000 -&100,000 being so upset
over the rise in Taxes. I am sorry, some of their argument is lame. My family had to live off welfare after my mother got sick and my father broke his back on the job trying to pay my mother's health bills. He literally broke his back and it took 7 years to get the settlement for wrongful firring, but that is another story.
$600 dollars a month was what we had to live off of. That is why I was determined to get an education.
However part of the grip for this family was about the inability for one of the kids to keep piano lessons.
Since it was just aired, I haven't found the link yet. Will add when i find it. Or if someone else can find it before me please post!
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)The proposed increase is ONLY on the marginal rate ABOVE $250,000.00. There will be no increase on the first $250,000.00 for anybody. If this family makes $100,000.00 they will not be affected AT ALL.
People are so damn dumb sometimes....
liberal N proud
(60,336 posts)They believe the bullshit lies and repeat them.
southernyankeebelle
(11,304 posts)Springslips
(533 posts)If we go over the cliff.
Of course, we can then cut middle class taxes and make it retro-active.
Did CBS make this distinction clear on the show? If not, they suck at journalism.
PS: Their first world problems give me a bad taste too. Even if their taxes go up, this would be a good lesson for the children to make choices: piano lessons or less toys for Christmas? Believe it or not, sacrificing one thing, say extra toys, will make piano lessons more valuable. Would also do a lot to stifle narcissism and entitlement.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I think that is supposed to go up if nothing is done and that will affect a lot of people.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)0rganism
(23,957 posts)That's the tax most of us are going to feel more than anything else, especially people making under $100000.
leftstreet
(36,109 posts)Because you had to?
Working class solidarity - ya gotta love it
Selatius
(20,441 posts)Take the family's griping that they won't have the extra cash for piano lessons.
When I learned piano as a kid, for instance, I did it on my own without paying money to a tutor or spending it on classes. My mother wouldn't allow for such expenses having had to raise my sister and I on her own without the aid of a deadbeat husband.
That family cited is still in a great financial position even if the United States reverted back to the Clinton-era tax rates. Quite a lot of people, on the other hand, don't even have a job or a home. Yet they're worried about losing the little things?
Ideally, we wouldn't be in this situation. If the Repubs were reasonable, they'd be open to keeping the tax cuts for income earners under 250,000, but they seem dead set on keeping all the cuts for the rich.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)That is exactly what I mean.
The worst part is that they are on the news acting as if it is a disaster!
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Guess they should look for other jobs?
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)AlexSatan
(535 posts)abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)The complaining family can still afford the piano lessons. They are just misinformed.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)It is just the mindset of poo-pooing things that might be important to others just because it is not important to you (not you specifically, but the poster) that bugs me.
Thanks though!!
frylock
(34,825 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)that would be a huge disappointment for her.
So because it's possible to survive on very little, everyone should survive on very little? Sounds like the neo-cons.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)The point is that for those who do have to live on much less, and are expected, to put it bluntly, to do so without complaining about it, this kind of whining rings tinny and false upon the ear. Indeed, it rings false and tinny, and ought to ring false and tinny, to anyone with much economic awareness or liberal sympathies.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)We don't need to help the Republicans with this talking point that "people can survive on less, so you don't need what you have." Wages should be increased. We don't need a race to the bottom.
Better yet, read post #33.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)That does not address the point at hand here, though, which is that people will generally be unmoved when persons whose income is two or three times their own complain of straightened circumstances. It is unreasonable to expect otherwise.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)The news programs are asking people of various incomes and situations what it will mean to them so they show a cross section of the country. This family is just telling their story.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)"I felt badly that I had no shoes, until I met the man who sold them."
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I think that's an unfair characterization.
News program comes and asks you, "If you have $3,000 less a year, what will you do?" You answer truthfully, just to answer. That isn't a complaint. It is just answering the question.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)I do not think either of us have seen the program, I have not, certainly. The O.P. may not have characterized the matter correctly.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)Please define "Real Suffering"
American "Real Suffering" or world-wide (3rd-world) "Real Suffering".
AlexSatan
(535 posts)because you don't count on that income from them or don't value them for your kids rings of a race to the bottom and you getting to choose what activities and professions are important.
As the other poster said, sounds like you are support a RW talking point.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)Hang in there with that 'you're supporting a right wing talking point' line, and I will even spot you a 'you must think you're better than everyone else' refrain, just to keep things going....
AlexSatan
(535 posts)It just kills me when people say "I didn't have that so you don't need it" forgetting that there is often a middle-lower class person's job behind that thing they are willing to sacrifice or discounting that some people have different abilities than other wrt teaching themselves things like piano.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)If you cannot keep me entertained, there is no reason for me to continue any interest in engaging you; I do have other amusements readily available, one or two of which have dead-lines....
AlexSatan
(535 posts)are within the next minute, you have plenty of time....
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)That is the question you are failing to provide any compelling answer to....
AlexSatan
(535 posts)You will become a better person for merely interacting with me. (Awesomeness is dusty and often rubs off)
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)However, if anyone I know were to complain that they could not afford one my first thought would not be to worry over the livelihood of commode platers. Playing at "Devil's advocate" can be a useful tool, but in this case it falls flat.
Apt username for the debate style though!
AlexSatan
(535 posts)but it is your right to believe some are not worthy of keeping.
leftstreet
(36,109 posts)As we're flung into the Austerity Abyss, who determines which of our labors are excessive or frivolous?
I take your point that to a homeless or jobless person these complaints may sound unreal. Sadly, that's often the intent of these articles and stories found in the OP. Divide/conquer. And it's just going to get worse.
frylock
(34,825 posts)leftstreet
(36,109 posts)um...not sure of your point?
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)I am not seeing it.
Although, one might suspect that you think all taxes should go up on January 1st.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)Selatius explains it better than I did/could.
Lightbulb_on
(315 posts)... is that since he suffered, anyone who has more than X has no right to complain.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and even then, they'll most likely fix the problem retroactively for the under $250K families.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)It was as if the the cliff was already on them. The whole thing did not not make as much sense as it should have when in comes to reporting.
Selatius
(20,441 posts)You can paint a false picture and yet still not technically be guilty of lying. At most, you could be accused of an oversight but little more.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)...a song which puts everything in perspective. It's called "First World Problems"- e.g. the 'problems' one faces living in a first world country. Of course, even in my own little town, there are people who are ticked off an angry because their wi-fi signal is cutting out, while others are similarly depressed...because they have no where warm to sleep tonight.
PB
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)Fuck 'em.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)So they say FU to your family and their excesses.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Bet you have a Black friend, too.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)And yes, I am the self-appointed spokesman of my poorer friends. But I probably didn't do a good job since they don't seem to hate everyone who makes more than them or begrudge families who pay for piano lessons for their kids.
But we all know I made my point and that is all that matter.
But for the record, I have quite a few.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So until we are all so poor that we are all dying of starvation, fuck all of us.
This is how our masters manage to get the peasants fighting over the crumbs. Austerity is imposed on us by getting us to fight each other of which of us gets more of the shaft.
This cliff, this mother fucking cliff, doesn't even exist. There is no cliff. It is a fiction that congress can do away with tomorrow. It is being used to bludgeon us into accepting cuts in medicare, cuts in social security, increases in taxes on working people, and little or no effective tax increases on the elites who have enjoyed an unprecedented 30 year ride on our backs.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)There is no cliff and we don't need to use their false "cliff" scam to chase each other down to lower wages.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)As for the cliff not existing, try explaining that to all of the middle class DoD contractors who will not have jobs come 1 Jan.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)There will be a resolution at the last moment that pushes the edge of the cliff out. That will then become institutionalized as are continuing resolutions for the budget and resolutions to raise the debt ceiling. This is a game being played to convince us to take the medicine.
AlexSatan
(535 posts)but by claiming there is not cliff, it takes away the urgency/need to come to a resolution.
Frankly I thought they would come to a resolution long ago so the sequestration wasn't even a possibility.
If the Rs completely refuse to give any, do you support the Ds giving in? If not, the cliff may indeed happen because I really can see the Rs refusing to raise taxes as is needed.
leftstreet
(36,109 posts)Nicely stated
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)I want to take you home and stuff you full of cookies and milk.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)FredStembottom
(2,928 posts)It's easy to live on that. Easy. You just don't get a 8000 sq ft McMansion with a 3car garage to put the speed boat in.
That's all.
surrealAmerican
(11,362 posts)Surely they could put off taking a vacation or eating out or something. It sounds like their priorities might be screwy.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)"If my taxes go up, I'm going to take it out on my child! So there! Plus, I'll make her hold her breath until she turns blue!"
So the kid will suffer and it will be all our fault. We're supposed to feel guilty. It didn't have that effect on me, I just think they're shitty parents if that's the first thing that comes to their minds.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If the taper is put the wrong way, water won't drain properly.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)None.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Your concern is noted.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)"People survive on $20k. Why are you complaining about having your salary cut from $35k to $25k. You're doing better than lots of people."
We don't have to do their work for them. We should be demanding better wages for people, not agreeing that people have the ability to live on less, therefore they should.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)The Bush tax cuts will expire, then the wealthy and everyone else will pay more taxes. This family will pay about 3k more **if the only action that happens** is the Bush tax cuts expire.
That is why today President Obama keeps asking Americans to push Congress into signing a new tax break for people making their first 250k a year.
The new tax bill is needed from Congress so anyone making less than 250,000 will have the same income tax as today.
When you read the story this family expressed what 3k in more taxes means to them..it means cutting out a family luxury like piano lessons. personally if I needed to cut 3k from a family budget fast cell phones and cable TV would go first. That's more than 3k a year for most families.
Mariana
(14,858 posts)They have to have priorities, you know.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Mariana
(14,858 posts)I don't have cable, or any equivalent thereof, and I can't get Fox News on my teevee. When my parents visit me, I swear my dad goes into withdrawal. There is a Fox network channel, but it isn't the same thing at all.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)to stand.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)Of the tax savings and the less you made the less it benefited you. Like enough for one pizza per week for middle income workers.
It was tens of thousands for the really rich bastards.
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)to keep it. Perhaps the more we have the more we think we are entitled to keep. Greed and selfishness are not restricted to the uber-wealthy. We all need to take a step back and realize that one child's piano lessons may pay for another child's food. All "things" look different in perspective. What this family would sacrifice with the loss of 2K is not the same as one making less, but to them it seems large. I'm sure they didn't mean to sound petty. Nor do I think the poster meant to sound as if we should all be struggling on $600. But we do all need to put "things" in perspective.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Really? You think we need to tax middle class families so they can't afford piano lessons, to pay for other children's food? No comment on the ultra-rich. Nice.