Mr. President, please pardon Gov Don Siegelman so he can have Christmas with his family. nm

[rhett o rick]

[HowHasItComeToThis]

1. and INVESTIGATE ROVE AND ALEC UNDER RICO ACT

WHAT THEY DO IS ALMOST TREASON

[rhett o rick]

22. I agree. But let's start with a pardon. That should be easy, unless I am missing something.

Gov Siegelman is a political prisoner railroaded by a corrupt Bush administration. The Pres could partially rectify this with a pardon.

Putting Rove in prison for treason is equally important but seems to be "off the table".

[joeunderdog]

82. It can be as easy as saying Scooter Libby.

See how easy?

[rhett o rick]

84. Technically Scooter never got a pardon. Bush commuted his prison sentence.

So poor Scooter. He took the rap and Bush gave him the finger (no pardon).

[sabrina 1]

87. I would prefer that the conviction be rescinded. A pardon would mean he did something

wrong. We all know who was behind that political witch hunt. Holder did it for Republican Stevens, why not for a Democrat who was pursued and lied about at the instigation of Karl Rove. And after they rescind the conviction, then investigate those who lied, including the crooked judge, to get that conviction.

It's not as if they do not have witnesses. A Republican who has stated that Rove ordered her to follow Siegelman around to try to find evidence of him cheating on his wife, eg. Rove tried to contradict her, but she was feisty and basically called him what he is, a liar.

Considering that both Republicans and Democrats have condemned that prosecution, I do not understand why Holder has not acted on this long ago. He showed no such hesitation when it came to Stevens, who actually did do wrong. Although I agreed with the decision because of corruption in the process.

[rhett o rick]

88. I am not familiar with the "rescind" process. How does that work? nm

[sabrina 1]

89. Well, in the case of Republican Sen. Ted Stevens, Eric Holder asked a Judge

to drop all charges against him because of allegations of prosecutorial misconduct. The judge did so.

Stevens was convicted on seven counts of ethics violations. He claimed that the Prosecution failed to turn over papers to his attorneys. Holder agreed and got the conviction over-turned. At the time, Holder was praised for taking the trouble to look into the case and many hoped that he was setting a standard of being on top of prosecutorial misconduct. It was also expected that he would do the same for Don Siegelman where the misconduct was far more egregious, including that of the judge.

But, he never did so. I do not know why he was so willing to help a Republican, who was most likely guilty of the charges. I listened to some of the testimony in that trial although I do agree that once a trial is tainted, you have to err on the side of the person most affected. They could have tried him again, but chose not to. But it appears he was not interested in the Siegelman case for some reason.

[rhett o rick]

94. What judge does he have to get to agree to drop the case? nm

[sabrina 1]

95. That I don't know. Maybe there are legal experts here who might. Probably a judge

that has jurisdiction over the case. Hopefully not one in Alabama, although it probably would not be the presiding judge who is accused of corruption himself.

[former-republican]

25. no argument there

I would throw in Timothy Geithner on that list also.

[Unknown Beatle]

50. Hear, Hear!

And while we're at it, throw in Ben Bernanke too.

[Octafish]

47. Not 'almost.' It is treason.

Last edited Sat Dec 8, 2012, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)

"Corruption in public office is treason." -- Adlai Stevenson, Jr.

[navarth]

77. typo?

Pardon me but I am honestly confused: is 'reason' in this quote a typo or was Stevenson being sarcastic?

[Octafish]

79. Thank you! Good catch!

Stevenson believed public service to be a great trust. Those who betrayed it were not mere crooks.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/57563234

[navarth]

86. Glad to be or service, Honorable Octafish. nt

[Vincardog]

2. And investigate and prosecute war crimes

[northoftheborder]

3. Yes yes yes

[jonthebru]

13. Is your last name 'Bruce?'

That is the Bruce Tartan, is it not?

[Loki]

4. Why is this man in jail

and Tom Delay isn't? Why don't we have an attorney general that is worth a fuck?

[theaocp]

9. Cheers to that. n/t

[Tuesday Afternoon]

5. K&R

[Zorra]

6. Yes. Highly recommend. nt

[blaze]

7. Amen! nt

[navarth]

8. agreed and kicked. end the travesty.

[DavidDvorkin]

10. His wife and children are Jewish

So maybe that's not the right appeal.

[jonthebru]

16. That does not mean we can't give them a gift.

http://donsiegelman.org/

[DavidDvorkin]

19. Sure

It does mean, though, that talking about him being with his family for Christmas is inappropriate.

[rhett o rick]

20. How in the world can it be inappropriate to want him OUT OF PRISON???????? nm

[DavidDvorkin]

56. Inappropriate to link it to being with his family for Christmas

That's what I said, not that it was inappropriate to want him out of prison.

[rhett o rick]

60. Good grief. How do you know that he doesnt appreciate Christmas? Esp if he is free. nm

[DavidDvorkin]

63. The Christian provincialism of some of these reactions is astonishing.

[rhett o rick]

65. I think you are over reacting. I am not religious. I just thought it would be nice for him

to be home during the holidays. And somehow you take offense. THis isnt about you. THe man is in prison as a political prisoner.

[DavidDvorkin]

66. Of course it's not about me. It's about the fact

that not everyone is Christian and sees the world in Christian terms. In this case, his wife and kids aren't Christian.

[rhett o rick]

69. Christmas is an event in December. One can speak of it w/o advocating Christianity.

I think you are attacking the wrong windmill.

Have Peace in your life and a Happy Holiday season.

[DavidDvorkin]

74. A Christian event in December

What I'm attacking is the narrowmindedness and provincialism of those who put the pardon in Christian terms when those don't apply to this family.

[rhett o rick]

75. And you know that they dont recognize Christmas how? Interesting that you

would call me narrow minded.

Did you understand that I am not Christian?

[DavidDvorkin]

81. I don't know, and I didn't assert that

I pointed out that because his wife and children are Jewish, an appeal to having him home by Christmas was perhaps not a wise approach. The default assumption is unwise.

[Harry_Scrote]

32. For

Hannukah then?

[DavidDvorkin]

57. Better to just leave religion out of it

There's no need to make that association, especially given that his family is of mixed religions.

Just keep asking Obama to pardon him.

[Ken Burch]

90. OK...Chanukah, then...or just "The Holidays".

n/t.

[DavidDvorkin]

96. Just "The Holidays" would be a big improvement.

[arthritisR_US]

11. Nothing would make me happier!

[ReRe]

12. K&R

Christmas is the time for pardons. Mr President, please pardon this man this Christmas. Have DOJ arrest KKKarl Rove and his cohorts who perpetrated the real crime. They can take Siegelman's spot in prison. Thank you.

[upi402]

15. Oooh, noice sig line

Did Abe really say that?

[ReRe]

18. Si, Senor...

... I highly recommend everyone get a volume of Abe's actual writings. You will be flabbergasted at how brilliant that man was. His words as relevant today as they were then.

[upi402]

14. Obvious - YES!

No brainer.

[femrap]

21. I still

have the letters that Mr. Siegelman and I exchanged while he was in prison.

It was all KKKarl....who should be the one dressed in orange. I still hope that will be the case.

[Blue Owl]

23. And please serve up a nice, fully cooked canned ham

If ya know what I mean.

[KamaAina]

29. Sounds yummy!

[former-republican]

24. Is he guilty ?

Sorry no sympathy even if the money was used in other ways.

Comparing him to other republican corrupt officials doesn't give him a pass on what he did.

A person gained a powerful position because of a huge donation.

All elected officials have to be held accountable .
He knew exactly what he did and that it was illegal

[rhett o rick]

34. I understand why Republicans want him in prison. He was a popular and powerful Democrat.

Therefore I see why Republicans have no sympathy.

I could go thru the nuances of his case but somehow I doubt it would phase you.

The law should be meted out equally. It wasnt in this case.

He is a political prisoner.

[DeeDeeNY]

35. He is NOT guilty and did nothing illegal

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mimi-kennedy/don-siegelman_b_1851909.html

[former-republican]

39. interesting

I have not followed the case as close as some here .

[rhett o rick]

70. Please watch the video.

http://www.donsiegelman.org/

[former-republican]

80. I just watched the quick 13 minute one

What the hell "Rove" was involved in this.
I'm going to watch the entire 1 hour one tonight.

thank you for the link

this is crazy

[oldhippydude]

59. add to that... it's nothing compared to what has been happening since Citizens United n/t

[PufPuf23]

61. Not only was Siegelman innocent and railroaded

but the election where he lost the Governorship of Alabama to Bob Riley is fishy.

The election loss was another one of those close elctions where one went to bed with incumbent Siegelman projected a narrow winner but the next AM Riley was the winner.

[morningglory]

78. He wasn't even impolite, or out-of-line in any sense of the

word. He didn't sing off key. Didn't forget to put a coin in the parking meter.

[sabrina 1]

91. No, and if he was, then every politician on both sides of the aisle belongs in prison

with him. He took no money, this was a Karl Rove driven political prosecution and they have witnesses, Republicans, who have already testified to the corruption that went on with that prosecution. Rove had tried several times to get him convicted of something and didn't stop until he succeeded. The judge is also corrupt.

Holder got Republican Ted Stevens conviction overturned because of prosecutorial misconduct. Compared to what happened in Siegleman's case, the Steven's misconduct, and there was in his case, was minor. But I agreed with that decision even though I believe that Stevens probably was guilty.

That whole prosecution should be thoroughly investigated. A Republican witness has already stated that Rove had ordered to follow Siegelman around to 'get something on him. She did, and could not find anything. He denies, or lies, about this, but she has been adamant about it.

It is one of the worst travesties of justice I have seen and both Democrats and Republicans have written letters to the DOJ asking that they investigate this case. But so far, no one has.

He should not be pardoned, the conviction should be thrown out and Rove should be thoroughly investigated for his role in this.

[DeeDeeNY]

97. Your last sentence

Exactly right.

[AzDar]

26. K & R

[WillyT]

27. HUGE K & R !!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Chanukah

After that you have it right.

[sellitman]

30. Liberal War on Xmas!

[smokey nj]

31. According to wikipedia, Don Siegleman is Roman Catholic.

His wife is Jewish and his children were raised in the Jewish faith, but Don himself is Catholic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Siegelman

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. And you think if they were raised in the Jewish Faith

St Nick comes to them? And hey, a Hanukah miracle is just as symbolic.

[smokey nj]

40. I don't know what they celebrated or how they celebrated, I just pointed out that Don Siegelman

wasn't Jewish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. And from interviews In places like Raw Story

Christmas was not it.

Regardless..with the lousy pardon rate, and political capital, doubt it.

[smokey nj]

42. Can you provide links to those interviews?

I've searched Raw Story and done a Google search and can't find anything that mentions what December holiday the Siegelman family celebrates.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. They implied the family was raised Jewish

Inference and logic work here.

You even cited wiki...

[smokey nj]

45. Mixed-faith families often celebrate both traditions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Really? Ok

Whatever...like it really matters. (No it does not)

But family was raised Jewish has a nice implication...but whatever, they also celebrated Qwanza and a slew of other traditions for all I care.

[smokey nj]

48. Yes, really. Mixed-faith families often honor both traditions.

Did the Siegelmans? I don't know and honestly I don't care. You're the one who claimed to know and said you had a source.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Whatever, have a good life

Bye

[samsingh]

36. has anyone actually approached the President to do this? what's the delay?

[rhett o rick]

38. I would also like to know what the delay is. I believe more than one petition has been submitted to

Pres Obama.

[DeSwiss]

37. With a paltry 2% pardon rate.....

...I wouldn't get my hopes up.

- K&R

[neffernin]

43. Pardon rate of what?

The general population? lol

[trof]

49. I live in Alabama and I know the story. K&R

It's complicated, but trust me, Siegelman was railroaded.
He deserves the pardon.
Do what you can.

[OldDem2012]

64. +1000. nt.

[dmr]

51. This should have never happened, & freeing him is long over-due.

Jail the asshats that did this to him.

[liberalmuse]

52. Better yet, let Rove take his place. n/m

[Bozita]

53. Amen!

[hack89]

54. Usually Presidential pardons are granted only after the sentence is completed.

the President really does not have unlimited powers of pardon - the DOJ has regulations governing Presidential pardons and an entire office to review and make recommendations to the President.

The Department's regulations require a petitioner to wait a period of at least five years after conviction or release from confinement (whichever is later) before filing a pardon application (28 C.F.R. § 1.2).

http://www.justice.gov/pardon/petitions.htm

Don Siegelman deserves a pardon but the rules are stacked against him.

[rhett o rick]

62. Didnt Nixon get pardoned before serving any time?

If memory serves me George HW Bush pardoned a few Iran-Contra conspirators before they were tried.

[hack89]

67. There are exceptions but they are rare. nt

[rhett o rick]

68. Well let's make Gov Seigelman an exception since it is possible. Dont you agree? nm

[hack89]

71. I think he should be pardoned.

I just don't see it happening right in the middle of negotiations on taxes and entitlements.

[rhett o rick]

72. I dont see any connection. nm

[hack89]

73. Obviously the President does

I doubt this issue is even on the President's radar - it should be but there is no indication that there is much public interest in the matter. All Americans, however, care very much about the results of the President's negotiations with the repukes.

[rhett o rick]

76. It's not about only doing what the American people care very much about. It's about righting a

terrible wrong. The two are not mutually exclusive.

By-the-way: Go Seahawks.

[former9thward]

55. He won't pardon.

Justice Kagan, who Obama appointed, argued against Siegelman's appeal at the Supreme Court when she was Obama's Solicitor General. The best that can be hoped for is a commutation of the sentence.

[dballance]

83. I wouldn't hope for any action until the last days of his term

From all that I've read Siegelman was railroaded by corrupt judges and prosecutors in his state and then the Republican judges at the federal level supported them. It's very much a "good 'ole boys club" of black-robed people.

Though a pardon would be great exoneration would be much better. However, for Siegelman's sake I'd go with commutation of the sentence or a pardon to get him out of jail where he does not belong. But don't expect Obama to do that any time soon just because he was reelected and won't run again. He's not going to start any fight right now that might give the Republicans ammunition to slander him even more than they already do. Especially with the budget and debt ceiling negotiations going on.

Siegelman's best hope is an 11th hour pardon at the end of Obama's term in my opinion.

[rhett o rick]

85. This is a tragedy that Pres Re-elect Obama could fix. But sadly, I think you are right. nm

[Ken Burch]

92. Actually, I can't figure out why Obama hasn't pardoned Siegelman already.

It's not as though we're likely to carry Alabama anytime soon(maybe any time in the next few decades)and we're never going to get the votes of people who think Siegelman is guilty.

Did the prez ever really have ANYTHING to lose from springing Siegelman?

[rhett o rick]

93. I dont see that the Pres has anything to lose pardoning Siegelman. I believe the more he does to

piss off the Republicans the more they will look like crybabies. Attack and stay on the attack.