General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums‘Famous’ Wolf Is Killed Outside Yellowstone
Yellowstone National Parks best-known wolf, beloved by many tourists and valued by scientists who tracked its movements, was shot and killed on Thursday outside the parks boundaries, Wyoming wildlife officials reported.
The wolf, known as 832F to researchers, was the alpha female of the parks highly visible Lamar Canyon pack and had become so well known that some wildlife watchers referred to her as a rock star. The animal had been a tourist favorite for most of the past six years.
The wolf was fitted with a $4,000 collar with GPS tracking technology, which is being returned, said Daniel Stahler, a project director for Yellowstones wolf program. Based on data from the wolfs collar, researchers knew that her pack rarely ventured outside the park, and then only for brief periods, Dr. Stahler said.
This years hunting season in the northern Rockies has been especially controversial because of the high numbers of popular wolves and wolves fitted with research collars that have been killed just outside Yellowstone in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.
full: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/science/earth/famous-wolf-is-killed-outside-yellowstone.html
niyad
(113,581 posts)femmocrat
(28,394 posts)I'm sure there are many wolf-lovers who are saddened at this news.
When the wolves were first introduced, I "adopted" one. She too was killed.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,715 posts)sasha031
(6,700 posts)the hunters are barbarians, wolves should of never been taken off the endangered species list.....
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,715 posts)I do agree with you. They should have remained on the list.
CanonRay
(14,118 posts)Payback is a bitch.
Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)I have lost almost 50 sheep this year to a very intelligent and beautiful (gosh darn it!!!!) coyote and his/her family. All of my bottle fed lambs and one ewe's side was completely removed by one who took her lamb- I spent 3+ months cleaning and treating the wound for the skin to grow back.
I feel for ranchers, but guardian dogs are the answer, not killing the predators.
I rescued a livestock guardian dog this summer who is outside right now barking and barking at them. The coyotes have moved farther away. It is down to 2-3 kills/month vs 2-3 kills per week. I need more dogs, but each takes time to settle in. Dogs protecting the livestock is the way to go. The next one is coming in a few weeks and I am trying to get everything ready for her.
A lot of organizations paid to purchase these dogs for the ranchers in that area. How sad that they have choses to go this route.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,715 posts)I firmly believe, however, that the idiots killing the wolves do it because they hate the wolves. It is a shame.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)because they like to kill. It's their adrenalin rush. If it's a collared animal, that's just another notch up on their megalomaniacal feeding. If they could get away with it, they'd kill anything.
I think for us to think that hunters have a business interest at stake is short sighted; that is the reasoning used to get away with it. It's part of the human sickness from thousands of years killing, and it is imperative that we evolve toward understanding and cherishing all life we share this planet with.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,715 posts)I agree too with what needs to be done over the long haul, but what do we do now?
It breaks my heart to see these magnificent animals with their superb social structure being murdered by "humans."
AnneD
(15,774 posts)Has a coyote problem. He accepts a certain loss but he is training some pit/heelers now. He has some local farmers ready to buy the pups. Good work dogs are a blessing.
dangin
(148 posts)I applaud your methods but wolves and coyotes are quite different.
However, we have rampant deer kills by snipers in our area of eastern Kansas each year now because otherwise the deer will both destroy our vegetation and still starve.
We don't have wolves but we have cougars and coyotes.
Are the deer pops not overly large up there? If they are then this shooting was criminal since domesticated livestock losses would be both minimal and insurable if deer and elk are overly plentiful. If deer aren't overrun there like they are here, why not? Is the predator prey ratio in balance? I truly don't know.
AldoLeopold
(617 posts)There's no way that it can be unless you count humans and by my reckoning wildlife management rarely gets it right in the numbers. Good that you know the term though. In fact, you seem to be quite educated on this subject.
Perhaps the state should file a civil suit in federal court claiming an inbalance caused by Wyoming.
Tell me, do the deer eat your crops?
Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)I heard it was because there was some sort of rodent explosion. A neighbor lost 3 calves- and they have never lost one in 60 years- to coyotes. Others, like me, lost their season's lambs.
My problem is that I have the sheep because I love animals in general, I love that these sheep are helping make topsoil and bringing health to all of my soils. I love their wool. I love watching them. I learn something from them every day, it seems.
But this coyote is a magnificent animal, too. Way larger than most and very bold. When the guardian dog first chased him out of the pasture he was on the other side of the fence yiping at us as we walked up to our side of the fence. It was though as he was saying to me "who is this huge dog taking away my sheep?" Now , since my first dog makes life uncomfortable for them around here, they have moved their families farther away. There really are plenty of rodents and I am grateful that the coyotes catch so many of them. I just want them to leave my sheep alone!
arikara
(5,562 posts)to keep the wolves and other predators away from the livestock. I've seen it standing guard over the sheep, it takes its job seriously.
creeksneakers2
(7,476 posts)but its true!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guard_llama
arikara
(5,562 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)used to own a farm and had a couples herds of sheep and cattle. Towards the latter quarter of his farming career, he had a llama as a guard against coyotes (as there were no wolves in Missouri at the time).
leftyladyfrommo
(18,871 posts)I had a friend who was losing lambs - coyotes would come clear up in his yard. Got a guard dog and he quit losing lambs.
But just one dog won't work against wolves. You have to have several so they can really defend themselves. Otherwise the guard dog will get killed by the wolves.
Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)but it is taking me time to get them settled in.
And people say you have to protect your dog with these terribly scary looking collars.
I tried llama, but they would jump my fences and stand in the highway......
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)If these wolves share the 'celebrity status' that the article claims, than there is little doubt in my mind that this individual knew.
It's too bad that shooting a wolf with a research collar isn't an illegal offense.
MFM008
(19,820 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)how much tissue damage was done. Maybe it was run down with a helicopter until it was exhausted and then killed by someone that thinks that makes them a real man.
Marinedem
(373 posts)I doubt doubt that the type of round used and the effects of the terminal ballistics is being discussed though, as such knowledge is important to ensure that the animal didn't suffer further undue pain. Greater damage/spread of round = less suffering.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)AldoLeopold
(617 posts)Because I'm about to get profane
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKMOTHERFUCKINGPIECEOFSHITHUMANFUCKINGASSHOLES.
FUCK
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)sasha031
(6,700 posts)Why were these beautiful creatures taken off the endangered species list in the 1st place.
This country has gave the green light to hunters, they can now kill anything in sight.
pscot
(21,024 posts)name and address.
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)First, I am glad that this news has come to DU. It's important that the general public be apprised of what is happening in the northern Rockies and the upper Great Lakes regarding wolves and predators in general. This is just the archery and gun huntin' season... trapping has just begun. If you think the gun killing part is gruesome, check out what's going on the trapping scene. For one, a number of dogs have been maimed by traps illegally set too close to areas used by the general public already. Some states are also considering the use of dogs to hunt wolves, this is foolish as the dogs are more likely to get killed than not.
The wolf in the article is actually the seventh or ninth wolf that inhabits YNP to be killed in this year's hunt. A whole pack being studied was taken last time there was a hunt. What these brave hunters have been doing is sitting on the park border with calls that mimic wolves or other animals in distress and the wolves go to check it out, they are curious animals and if it might be a wolf, they are darn sure to go see what's up as they have strong family ties.
Now wolf advocates argued for buffer zones around the national parks to avoid this but the F$G patsies were too beholden to the ranching and hunting interests and declined to write such an option into the hunting rules, and they have allowed trapping this year too. Wyoming is the worst as there is a "shoot on sight" year round policy for about 70- or 80% of the state and around the park it's call "trophy hunting" where there is a long but specific season. One of the main arguments for these hunts was to let the wolf haters blow off some steam by letting them kill some... wrong. It only rewards them. ID and WY want to reduce the wolf populations down to about 100 per state, which would be massive killing and much of the damage has already been done. Wyoming is allowed to count the park wolves as part of the overall population in the state... so they want all their wolves to stay in the parks.
There are two lawsuits filed at present against the state of Wyoming but Idaho is about the same in it's level of hatred toward wolves and Montana isn't much better. I'm not so sure about the particulars on the hunts in the Great Lakes states but I do know that suddenly authorities are concerned about hikers, their dogs and others getting shot, pierced by arrows or caught in traps after they have allowed the hunt to proceed, and they're arguing about dogs involved in hunting.
I urge everyone who cares about this to educate yourself and start screaming. This is a keystone species and they are vital to a healthy ecosystem and biosphere, if we wipe them out again, we have only ourselves to blame when the fecal matter hits the fan.
The human species is looking particularly ugly lately in these parts.
If you really want to get the lowdown on a lot of this, a good source is:
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/
which has a searchable history and news updates offered by participating bloggers. I highly recommend checking in to that site from time to time or often if you like since it has a great reputation as a news source on wildlife and issues surrounding them. If you participate, there are moderators since the topics can be controversial and conversations can get a little dicey at times... cussing isn't acceptable. But do check it out, there's a lot to learn and a lot of the info and leads can be found there.
And I laud the sheep rancher, above for the input about guard dogs, thank you for posting that! There are a number of techniques and tools available to keep wolves and other predators away from your livestock, guard dogs is but one of those.
The reason that there are so many elk and deer is because the F$G depts. "manage" for over abundance so the hunters have a reason to hunt so the depts. can make money and one reason they kill the natural predators of the "game" animals.
Folks need to pay attention, this is the new range war of the 21st century.
On edit... posting hunter's names isn't a good idea, it's happened before and it became a big fight about legality and distracted from the main argument about hunting wolves v letting them be... many death threats were issued. Redneck jihadis if you will. It's not a good thing to initiate, if you lived in the region, you'd know why. Now if a person posts gory stuff on a personal website themselves, then they are fair game.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Esse Quam Videri
(685 posts)flvegan
(64,416 posts)former-republican
(2,163 posts)"Many ranchers and hunters say the wolf hunts are a reasonable way to reduce attacks on livestock and protect big game populations"
That doesn't make any sense , that's what wolves do , they hunt they eat.
Or do they want people to go out and hand feed them....
kickysnana
(3,908 posts)2naSalit
(86,798 posts)radio telemetry isn't hard to come by, some hunters use the devices for their hunting dogs and finding a frequency for a wolf isn't hard to guess if you have a decent receiver. They also get to use "calls" so that helps to lure a wolf out of a safe zone. Trapping season has just started so that will be even uglier.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)this story would weigh in occasionally with those few of us who routinely take on DU's NRA-squad, the so-called "pro gun progressives." They truly make this site suck.
Folks, this is gun culture. It's not hunting for food or sports shooting: the same right-wing culture that says shooting a wolf for sport is good fun is that same culture that insists we can do nothing about the human victims of the far-too easy availability of handguns and assault rifles on our city streets. It's all of a piece.
Thanks for your patience; sorry for the rant.
Back to the OP: it is awful. Wolves shouldn't be off the endangered species list.
sasha031
(6,700 posts)"DU's NRA-squad" makes me more than ill. I can't tell you the number of times that I'd accidentally respond to a post, coming from a gun control perspective. Then find myself in arguments with the progun nuts.
I don't know why man has this need to kill everything, to me it is so wrong.
Life is sacred and we should respect & cherish everything on this planet.
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)aka, fetishism and a sick sense of payback toward the gubbamint who put them varmints out there... feeding on hatred.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I don't know a single hunter who sport hunts. Only those who hunt what they will eat. This is a crappy attack on fellow DUers. My husband hunts but like others on this site I had adopted a wolf also that was killed. I have been a member of Defenders of Wildlife and EarthJustice both who use the courts to try and stop these hunts for years and years. I have written countless letters to the last administration and to this one. Obama appointed that damn Salazar and things went downhill from there. It is not all of a piece.
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)have Rep. Raul Grihalva appointed SOI...
Please sign it.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/appoint-congressman-raul-grijalva-51st-secretary-interior/p6Sc2HLv?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl
Salazar is a shill and a disgrace.
Thank you.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I will be willing to change my mind if you can provide some peer reviewed scientific literature that backs your claim. I am a pro gun progressive and wolf supporter as I posted before. Only a sociopath would hunt wolves just for sport in my opinion.
apocalypsehow
(12,751 posts)Uh-huh.
"Only a sociopath would hunt wolves just for sport in my opinion"
And that's precisely what the sociopath with the gun in the OP's linked article did: hunt a wolf for sport.
love_katz
(2,584 posts)The last time I checked, humans don't eat wolves.
The killer of the wolf is unlikely to make use of all of the wolf. And I highly doubt that the killer needed the wolf's pelt to keep warm this winter.
Obviously, the killer is incapable of "thinking like a mountain" (thanks to Aldo Leopold's book, A Sand County Almanac, for the concept).
I find this kind of slaughter to be sickening, disgusting, and heart wrenching.
Real hunters only take a creature's life to provide food. These days, most of us don't need to do that. And, if it is done, ALL parts of the creature need to be put to good use.
I think the killer of this wolf is such a low life that they would suck ditch water. No words can convey the depth of my disgust for such a creep.
Marinedem
(373 posts)Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)murder is killing anything for no reason.
love_katz
(2,584 posts)are an inspiration, providing an example of the way we need to go. Kudos to you, Tumbulu.
We need to find ways to work with Nature, not against the Earth. Like the Sioux, we need to learn to love and respect ALL of our relations, not just the human ones.
Murderers of wolves...be gone!
Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)we all do need to do this. We really do not have much time left for this type of behavior.
I second your: Murderers of wolves....be gone!
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)glinda
(14,807 posts)The emotional and psychological issues of the people that have forced through the back door these hunts (who are a minority) is beyond the pale. There is anger and hostility in these murders. We must find the way to stop them all over the Country.
life long demo
(1,113 posts)and it's only going to get worse. What can we average citizens do to stop this?
Esse Quam Videri
(685 posts)Fuck these asshole hunters just lying in wait for these beautiful animals to step foot outside the park.
2naSalit
(86,798 posts)Omaha Steve
(99,730 posts)liberal N proud
(60,346 posts)This is a crime against nature.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)individuals that do this. F'en fools. Yep, it takes a real man or woman with advanced weapons to take down a wolf.
Tyrs WolfDaemon
(2,289 posts)I can only hope that Odin's wolves, Geri and Freki, haunt these peoples' dreams and afterlife.
May this wonderful wolf find her way across BriFrost to join our waiting family in the Wild Hunt.
Perhaps one day the Wild Hunt's prey will be these 'people' that insist that our brethren be hunted.