General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsUnless all the polls are wrong, this is going to be a very close election. Yesterday WSJ, NY Times, and others were
reporting that for the first time in 30 years more people were identifying as republicans than Democrats,:
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/2024-election-republicans-democrats-id-b2626829.html
https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/more-americans-identify-as-republican-than-democrat-heres-what-that-means-for-the-election-150e12ae
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/us/elections/party-identification-democrats-republicans.html
and in Pennsylvania republicans are registering more new voters than Democrats
https://www.axios.com/local/philadelphia/2024/08/27/pennsylvania-voter-registration-republican-democratsd
https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2024/09/pennsylvania-voter-registration-2024-election-democrat-republican-independent-harris-trump/
The Cook Political Report analysis of the polls indicates that while African Americans and Latinos are supporting VP Harris over trump, but that number is significantly less than the 2020 support for Biden.
Here are the bullet points from the Cook Political Report:
"Analysis by Amy Walter based on the following bullet points:
1. Republicans have narrowed Democrats voter registration advantage.
"First, Democrats voter registration advantage has been drastically diminished. According to a recent study from SpotlightPA, Democrats in Pennsylvania have their weakest voter registration advantage compared to Republicans in recent decades. Indeed, Democrats now have a 325,000 registered voter lead over Republicans, down from 686,000 in November 2020 (when Joe Biden carried the state by 1.2 points) and 916,000 in November 2016."
2. Democrats are bleeding votes in Philadelphia, especially in Latino areas.
"Even so, Republicans have been making serious inroads into places where Democrats once ran up solid margins such as the city of Philadelphia, specifically in working-class Northeast Philadelphia."
3. Can Harris match Scranton Joes margins in Northeastern Pennsylvania?
"Even so, some of the House district polling weve seen from this part of the state suggests that Harris is holding her own and remains close to Bidens 2020 performance"
4. Harris suburban opportunities
The pundits love to use the 2016 election as an example where the polls under-represented republican support, but conveniently ignore what happened 11 days before the general election when Comey sent the letter to republicans in congress saying they were looking at another laptop for additional information and the MSM falsely reported that the "email investigation was reopened", parading every republican pundit across their outlets pushing that LIE non-stop for the next 7 days.
2016 is not a valid example that republican support was under-represented in the polls, because of the Comey event in the final week of the election.
Another consideration is that before 2020, the majority of U.S. voters cast their ballots in-person at a polling location, usually on election day. More than 58%.
In 2020 the most common method of casting a ballot was by mail.
https://www.npr.org/2023/07/03/1185843074/mail-voting-is-still-pretty-popular-even-without-the-pressure-of-the-pandemic
It seems we need in the African American and Latino communities at least the same support they had for Biden for VP Harris or it will be tough.
No one should underestimate the polls, especially since they all are saying that this will be a close election.
FarPoint
(13,695 posts)Essentially, they are obsolete overall.... There is no accountability for the product report they provide, no standard they all comply with and many are GOP funded polls...
Accessing the population for a poll in a fair methodology using phones just is inadequate... The legacy media uses them, polls, because they want a neck to neck race for views, clicks, and ratings...not information to serve the country....
So, dump the polls in my opinion....
gab13by13
(25,368 posts)Magats need polls to show TSF is ahead for 2 reasons;
1. to discourage Democrats from voting.
2. To use as an argument that the election was stolen after TSF loses.
Magats use polls for propaganda.
TheRickles
(2,453 posts)bdamomma
(66,713 posts)to Keith's whole show. Polls the propaganda machine on full tilt, just VOTE.
They want to manipulate voters, that is their scam.
CrispyQ
(38,540 posts)DiverDave
(5,019 posts)Utterly and totally.
A close race makes MONEY.
So, they lie. Predictable.
JohnSJ
(96,798 posts)big guns, Obama.
DiverDave
(5,019 posts)Are saying.
$$$$$$. That's the bottom line.
displacedvermoter
(3,194 posts)tail end of the national campaign, that is no indication of a close race. But you know that I think.
Rebl2
(14,920 posts)Lonestarblue
(11,972 posts)My big hope is that the polls are underestimating the younger voters who may not have voted in the past. I wish Taylor Swift would appear with Harris and encourage her fans to vote. She may be encouraging them to vote already, but a live appearance would be great.
a kennedy
(32,284 posts)Normal Repubs really want this orange ignoramus to ever be president. *keeping my fingers crossed
misanthrope
(8,292 posts)Right after the DNC, it was being circulated that both Barack and Michelle were lending their efforts to the cause leading to election day.
Ocelot II
(121,374 posts)Every candidate in every election I can remember had party big shots campaign for them, especially in the last weeks. This is SOP.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)dollars and winnin down ballot is essential too.
Aepps22
(330 posts)A close race is just fine with me as long as we do the work. We all have to ask ourselves what we are doing on the individual level to push Harris across the finish line.
JohnSJ
(96,798 posts)newdeal2
(1,121 posts)The polls have been wrong many elections in a row. I don't put much faith in them.
RJ_MacReady
(448 posts)Polybius
(18,272 posts)Or it the polls are just 2 or 3 points off, it could be 300+ Electoral Votes for Harris or Trump.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)We will win this election.
Polybius
(18,272 posts)Does Harris win 280 EV's? 300? 310?
The Madcap
(553 posts)I guess I might as well break out the passport and buy a plane ticket to anywhere in western Europe.
If they elect it, it is The End.
obamanut2012
(27,879 posts)kansasobama
(1,540 posts)Please do not just dismiss anyone with concerns. We are not a MAGA like cult.
Concern is valid. Yes, Dems have lost some advantage in PA but they can still win with a smaller majority. The same is true in MI and WI. Also, I am sorry to say some in the country have lost their marbles. They are anti-NATO, want US to not support Ukraine, are okay with a fascist man? It is mind boggling.
All I want the campaign to do is to not cut any slack. If he is a dictator, say it is. People need to fear a Trump Presidency. It will be the end of our way of life if Trump wins. Senate is going to be GOP. That bodes bad for us. We dont want a dark legacy.
On the other hand, look at Harris. Freedom, prosperity, part of the world. We are not going back. Joy.
I am shitting the bed as you are. I only wish I was in a swing state. But, I am doing what I can. Let us just do that.
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,409 posts)Some of it can be explained by the Rep pollsters but The NY Times and other reputable pollsters? Like all of the polls?
LeftInTX
(30,488 posts)Often we only hear negative stuff about Trump on DU. (He only had 500 people at his event, he's incoherent etc)
But his campaign must be doing some sort of something.
Cosmocat
(15,047 posts)What Republicans do works.
They turn everything to shit and overwhelm people with bullshit and MANY people are not like us, they are vulnerable to the hatred and shittiness.
It's absolutely close.
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,409 posts)which she tried to do. When shes done interviews, the knives come out for her - partly because she is a women. Its why some women in past days (and sometimes present days) used to pretend to be dumb to attract some insecure men.
Bluedawgbill
(27 posts)She absolutely did well in the debate, and I don't think her gender has anything to do with her interview problems. I think she doesn't have enough interview experience and it's probably not her strong suit. I can tell you from experience that sitting down for an interview is a very different thing than debating or simply having a discussion. My usual ability to articulate is definitely inhibited with a microphone, a camera, and someone asking probing questions in my face.
Take her answer on The View to what she would have done differently than Biden. That was a gimme. She could have listed half a dozen things she would have changed slightly without throwing him under the bus, hell, she has the benefit of hindsight. Instead she said nothing and gave Trump a campaign ad.
I wish she had started doing the media blitz right off the convention. The stumbles would have been long forgotten and absorbed into the wave of post convention popularity and she would be much more practiced and polished now at crunch time. Hindsight is 20/20.
displacedvermoter
(3,194 posts)things she would have done differently, did that occur to you? I can't think of many mistakes Biden has made, in one of the most successful single terms in history. So-called missteps -- Afghanistan the most obvious -- were more often than not the result of piss poor planning by the Trump clown show that preceded him.
Trump has given her a hundred campaign ads, a new one every day. And I don't know about you, but I don't know a single serious California politician -- Newsom, Schiff, Porter, Pelosi, Boxer, or Kamala Harris who isn't proficient in handling an interview.
Are you serious, the former Attorney General of California lacks "interview experience"?!? I don't think you are serious, really. I think you are nitpicking for the sake of picking nits.
Bluedawgbill
(27 posts)You don't think there's anything to be improved upon when the incumbent has an approval rating in the 30s and low 40s? I would think that's a clear indicator that the electorate isn't thrilled. She's running for election in a tight race, not talking to her base.
I have no other explanation for her performance than lack of experience. I can't remember the last time I saw any state AG sit down for a tough national interview. So, yeah, I think she isn't used to being put on the spot. Not a judgment, just an observation.
displacedvermoter
(3,194 posts)anything more than the product of a significant share of the electorate who would have told whichever pollsters that Biden was doing a lousy job even had he found a cure for cancer AND arranged peace in the Middle East, combined with the inflationary impact of COVID which was a worldwide phenomenon. The media did their part by interviewing a string of red state diner patrons and running their thoughts on page one, along side anonymous quotes from disgruntled so-called insiders. So again, I think it very possible she might not have done, would not have been able to have done, much different from what her boss did in his term in office.
I imagine you had good ideas that would have helped Biden overcome these realities.Too bad you weren't in a position to help him out.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you discuss her interview performance. From what I have seen she was poised, pleasant voiced, knowledgeable on a range of issues, and stepped on no rakes. I think she is able to think on her feet, as an experienced prosecutor. She kicked Trump's ass in the only debate opportunity, I don't see many missteps.
And by the way, you skipped over -- as I did -- her time as a US Senator and her time spent on the Judiciary Committee, during some of the most contentious SC confirmation hearings ever held. I recall her being in front of a microphone and talking to the Sunday gasbags week after week, and seemed to hold her own then as well.
Don't know what you want or expect. She seems pretty impressive to me, and well prepared for the challenges ahead.
kansasobama
(1,540 posts)It is not that Harris is messing up. It is just that Trump is energizing misogynist. That is his success. Is that good for the country? No. Doom talk is not about Harris. It is about the crazy MAGA who get sane washed by the media.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)like he's winning so when he loses,they can have their insurrection excuse.
LeftInTX
(30,488 posts)The Madcap
(553 posts)Breaking out the passport might be the only option to avoid the idiocy to come.
BannonsLiver
(18,191 posts)Doomery is not valid.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)don't demoralize others with hand wringing panic. And is always the same folks...heard the same thing every recent election and we won.
Elessar Zappa
(16,068 posts)Its all we can do. Big turnouts always favor Democrats so thats what it will come down to. But we can only control so much. If Trump wins, he wins and Ill know we did everything we could. Im not going to let his presence in the WhiteHouse destroy my mental health. Being scared and worrying wont change a thing so Ill take the zen approach if the worst happens.
JohnSJ
(96,798 posts)onandup
(701 posts)Odd.
LeftInTX
(30,488 posts)However, he was bleeding support from the left.
A good chunk of Latinos are just plain old conservative. I live in a suburban on the edge of urban, Latino community. I'm a block walker. Too many of them are GOP. Abortion and church are factors etc. Others are just pro-police, pro-law and order types etc. They were before Trump.
Spencer Martin
(24 posts)Particularly those who have lived in the USA for generations and no longer speak Spanish at home see themselves as white.
A fifth-generation Tejano who owns a successful HVAC company, drives a brand-new Ford F-350, with son in the Marine Corps and two daughters at Texas A&M will have no sense of shared solidarity with a migrant agricultural worker from Honduras.
And, yes, these Latinos are often Trumpers.
LeftInTX
(30,488 posts)Daughter went to A&M.
People would ask if she was Asian..LOL She got sick of it..LOL
Rstrstx
(1,573 posts)LudwigPastorius
(11,027 posts)Misogyny
The softness in support for VP Harris among minorities is primarily from men.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/12/us/politics/poll-black-voters-harris-trump.html
https://apnorc.org/projects/kamala-harris-is-viewed-more-positively-by-hispanic-voters-than-donald-trump/
SWBTATTReg
(24,304 posts)negative type of reporting? I think it does a disservice to a lot of us here on DU, and my point is, that we need to keep things upbeat, have a positive view on everything, and don't let downbeat crap get us down. A PEP rally. And this talk of 'don't underestimate the polls, blah blah blah'.
I leave that sole function for the repugs to cast a bad light on our people, and not us ourselves shooting ourselves in the foot, beating ourselves down, etc. Good grief.
Apparently, some take polls w/ religious fervor, and believe them to be the holy grail.
Remember the last set of elections where the repubs were expecting to pick up seats in an off year election? THEY DIDN'T. And the same environment, same stuff is still underlying this election too, tRUMP is still there, running. tRUMP is undermining everything.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)They took over the House.
SWBTATTReg
(24,304 posts)Not the wipeout that they were predicting.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)It is not the Senate.
SWBTATTReg
(24,304 posts)1 seat advantage does sometimes make a difference, but a lot of times, that one seat difference won't make a difference. I refer to the matrix that if you get 100 people in a room, you're going to have 100 different opinions, and trying to get them to all agree, well, sometimes you can't, as the house minority and majority leaders will tell people. Those agreements do, believe it or not, do happen still, despite the lopsided margins on one party vs. the other party.
An example, of both sides somewhat working together, despite the difference in numbers of democrats vs. republicans is when a poison pill amendment was introduced (the SAVE Act which caused H.R. 9494 to fail on September 18), with the Democratic party opposing the act.
The SAVE Act would have required individuals registering to vote in federal elections to provide documentation proving their U.S. citizenship. The House Freedom Caucus, which Brecheen is a member of, had previously put out a statement that said a spending bill should include the SAVE Act, which required voters to prove they are citizens when they register to vote, and continue government funding for six months.
Rep. Stephanie Bice (R-Oklahoma City) voted in favor of the bill and said in a statement that while the bill is imperfect and not what she would have preferred, the clock had run out and she could not in good conscience vote to shutdown the government.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)former9thward
(33,424 posts)Always has been, always will be.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)would have won. It was a historic showing and here you are acting like the Mid Term was bad for us...why? You know what they call the midterm...the red mirage...red wave which the polls did predict you know... never happened.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)The legislative priorities of what became a one-term president cut in half.
Bluedawgbill
(27 posts)You would rather be blindsided on Election Day? Trump is more popular than he has EVER been. Pretending that we're cruising to victory won't change that. Trump lost the EC by something like 40,000 votes in 2020. That isn't even a drop in the bucket. Kamala has to spend the next 20 something days dazzling everyone, hitting every mark perfectly. Missing lay ups and getting tripped up is not an option.
And the Republicans gained 9 House seats in 2022. Just because we avoided a massive red wave once in a midterm means nothing today.
RJ_MacReady
(448 posts)He is thr least popular ever. Stop this doomsaying it's ridiculous.
displacedvermoter
(3,194 posts)How is she being tripped up?
I am sorry, but you are are echoing Trump talking points being made by the Tom Cottons and Chris Sununus of the airwaves. You want her to trash Biden because the GOP, at Trump's command, killed the border bill? Who do you want her to sit down with, Hugh Hewitt or Magyn Kelly, think she would dazzle them and their audiences?
As for the fact that the GOP picked up only 9 seats two years ago, well you conveniently overlook a string of Democratic wins ever since, up to and including the recent mayoral win in Trump supporting Alaska.
I am not sure but that you had someone else in mind as your candidate, and missed the opportunity for the Carville "mini primary" media circus so someone else could be dazzling people now. You don't really have any solid criticisms, just think she should somehow do better.
Bluedawgbill
(27 posts)Anything short of childlike adoration is echoing Trump talking points? Of course the opposition is talking about it. They would be daft if they weren't.
Her answer to the "Netanyahu not listening" question that 60 Minutes aired in their promos was painful and verging on nonsensical. That certainly isn't an isolated incident and it's not confidence inspiring to average people. There's you a solid criticism.
I got nothing but love for her, but I'd really like to win this, too.
ETA: I don't consider local and even state elections to carry the weight of national elections. People are much more likely to vote for a different party in those elections. Any indicators those lower elections give tend to be murky at best.
displacedvermoter
(3,194 posts)LudwigPastorius
(11,027 posts)I just get tired of being called a doomer, or worse yet, being accused of trying to suppress the vote for pointing out that this is going to be a very close election.
kerry-is-my-prez
(9,409 posts)Ill never forget how it felt when Clinton lost. Its bad for your psyche to have your hopes way built up - only to have the rug pulled out from under you. Better to be aware and know what might happen.
SWBTATTReg
(24,304 posts)positive emotions, just as Kamala and Walz are providing us ... I want the joy. Nothing else will work, especially after the nonstop tRUMP BS that we see and hear on virtually all of the airwaves.
dalton99a
(84,818 posts)ProfessorGAC
(70,490 posts)I don't think it's going to be as close as the polls suggest.
A few reasons:
1. The manipulation of sampling strata doesn't appear to be based on fact, but on assumptions not supported by the 2020 or 2022 data.
Despite their torturous explanations of the decisions to oversample here & undersample there, I find them marginally, at best, scientific or statistically sound.
2. Party affiliation is not relevant as the elections are won in the middle. Any "independent" that decided to register R at this point (with 8 years of data), they were going to vote for TFG whether they were a registered R or not.
3. When statistical outcomes change, an assignable cause needs to be identified. What has Harris done to lose support she already had? What has TFG done to gain support?
If these questions can't be answered, it suggest statistical noise, and since the population being sampled can't change that fast, the noise is very likely to be caused by flaws in data acquisition.
Hence, I have little faith the numbers represent much more than the opinions of those doing the sampling.
bob4460
(252 posts)Fla Dem
(25,849 posts)There are a lot of people who are Republicans who will be voting for Harris but vote Republican down ballot.
That maybe why there are so many registering. Maybe in the past they didn't bother to register; too busy, not really interested etc. But this is a different time. The future of the US is on the line and many Republicans do not want to see Trump in office, so registering to vote for Harris, but still stay a Republican.
I hope that's the reason.
TlalocW
(15,631 posts)For the last several election cycles? I think we're in a new Dewey Beats Truman situation. Not that Trump is doing well in the polls, but instead of only rich people having phones slanting polls in the 40s, now the older you are (and presumably more conservative and republican you are), the more likely you are to have a landline and/or answer a mobile phone showing a restricted number or an id for a polling company. Or just answer a phone in general.
Mark.b2
(490 posts)I want a clear and convincing win by one of them. I dont think our country can stand another nail-bitter. I want the loser-hopefully Trumpto be thoroughly vanquished, knowing they legit got an ass whoopin!
I cant decide if this one feels more 2016 or 2022. In 2016, I was ignorantly bliss; Trump winning wasnt even on my radar. In 2020, I went to bed around 11 PM with the understanding Trump had won again. The glee the next morning was as great as Ive ever felt!
Last week, we decided to skip the country for the first half of November. One, I can hopefully be occupied around Election Day. Two, I can recover for almost two weeks post-election should it be necessary. Living in a red state, I dont want to be around should the worst happens!
appmanga
(961 posts)...criminality, misfeasance, corruptions, ineptitude, racism, bigotry, misogyny, psychopathy, and ignorance put forward by this person, the country was lost already.
I continue to not believe, knowing what we know, and seeing what we've seen, the country would go back to this fucking arch-criminal. Anyone with a semblance of rationality knows we won't survive as a democracy should this man retake the presidency.
JohnSJ
(96,798 posts)electoral college.
ColinC
(10,909 posts)And from what Ive seen, Democrats are dominating the ground game.
Self Esteem
(1,759 posts)I also think Harris banking a lot of early votes will help the campaign allocate resources better down the stretch run since they'll have an idea of where they need to hit specific target numbers. Trump is going to bank on a lot of same-day vote - and let's be clear: he'll get a lot anyway. But his ground game is worse today than four years ago, and the party resources in places like Michigan and Pennsylvania far less developed and supported than they were in 2020 and 2016.
ColinC
(10,909 posts)They could put wayyy more resources into GOTV of low propensity Dems and dem leaning folks.
Blaukraut
(5,920 posts)This American experiment. We can't fight against half of our fellow citizens who think what Trump is selling them is worth it. It would be one thing if he forced his way back into power. But these fools are eager to hand him a victory on a silver platter. Part of this is the media's fault. But mostly the people who saw Trump's first run and decided they want more where that came from are walking into this with their eyes wide open.
WarGamer
(15,705 posts)Thrill
(19,310 posts)May be the ones that let Harris down, like they did Hilary. Hope Im wrong. Im not optimistic
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)Just like the shitty polls most of which don't even ask about Roe, you are out of touch with women...roe roe and roe your boat.
Demovictory9
(33,936 posts)alarimer
(16,640 posts)Nobody I know answers phone calls from people they don't know and almost no one has a landline anymore.
Doodley
(10,452 posts)Jilly_in_VA
(11,067 posts)They have let us down time after time. They are basically tools of the MSM. Screw 'em.
LeftInTX
(30,488 posts)Patton French
(1,179 posts)Its no more complicated than that. Of course, that doesnt mean the pukes wont try to steal it.
iemanja
(54,881 posts)and who needs evidence anyway?
Patton French
(1,179 posts)And it happens to be the truth. You have seen the enthusiasm for Harris and the floundering of Trump, right?
iemanja
(54,881 posts)320? 350?
Patton French
(1,179 posts)iemanja
(54,881 posts)fingers crossed.
Patton French
(1,179 posts)Brainfodder
(7,181 posts)HTAF can clown convict be in this at all?
I for 1 am not buying CLOSE at all.
Cadfael
(1,342 posts)Freethinker65
(11,160 posts)Married to a reliable Republican voter (not registered for either party) that will for a third time not be voting for Trump.
Freethinker65
(11,160 posts)I have many friends in Utah that are registered Republicans that have never voted for Republican in the general elections.
Demsrule86
(71,033 posts)arlyellowdog
(1,429 posts)Identify as Republican or Democrat, right? OK, now ask anyone under 40, Are you a Republican or a Democrat? I can guarantee they will say, I dont identify by political party (or religion, or maybe even by gender). Now ask young voters if they even know what the Wall Street Journal is (or NY Times for that matter). I realized this when getting some young people to register. No they did not register as Democrats. Yes, they are voting for VP Harris.
SalamanderSleeps
(680 posts)Charlie Cook.
Hocky Game.
3rd Period.
Asshole.