There was nothing wrong with the Democratic message

[Quiet Em]

The problem is the sickness permeating our society that has been emboldened by Trump and creepy social media influencers.

VP Harris is extremely knowledgeable, experienced, compassionate, and had a message and proposals that would lift everyone up. As an added bonus she is acutely aware of how to even the playing field for women and minorities and lift us up as well.

Trump is a rapist, a con artist, a liar, and a maniac hellbent on revenge. He's not about lifting up or making anyone's life better except the wealthy and himself.

Our message was not the problem. Our current society is the problem.

[Irish_Dem]

1. Our message is fine yes.

But we have not faced the reality of how sick our society has become.
And how much election interference and outright rigging of the election there was by our enemies.

[Quiet Em]

2. Absolutely.

Total agreement.

[Irish_Dem]

39. None of this means anything if the PutinGOP is cheating to win.

Last edited Tue Dec 3, 2024, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

And the relentless Russian propaganda has turned American brains to mush.

I think you are quite naive and cannot face reality.

Having four numbers after your name and typing in all caps doesn't help either.

[Quiet Em]

45. Didn't even spell the Vice President's name correctly,

[Quiet Em]

47. You seem to use the word "woke" in a derogatory way

Republicans do that as well.

[SnoopDog]

3. Our message can always be improved...

But the most important thing is that the Democratic Leadership needs to delivery that message.

The Dem Party doesn't have any media. We can't rely on the MSM because they are the media for the wealthy.

So let's make sure we articulate the problems and the solutions and then... Freaking Do It.

It's the Dem Party Leadership (or lack thereof) that lost this election.

[rich7862]

26. We have no media for the Democratic Party,. That is why we lost.

70% of the media is owned and controlled by the 'trump political party". When we try to obtain more media the Conservative Party is in power and makes it impossible to obtain and run media news. This trump party has broken newspapers, news channels and radio through out America. The trump maggot oligarchy own the news . Democracy cannot survive in the dark without the honest input of news.

[ProfessorGAC]

4. Seems Self-Contradicting

If society has devolved to a point where good ideas can't be sold, it would seem changing the product would in order.
If we're still selling the old product in an environment where there are insufficient buyers, there is, by definition, a messaging problem.

[Quiet Em]

5. Half of society is cheering on the cruelty and boorish behavior

That's not a messaging problem. That's *not a message we should think about making to appease these types. The problem is that half of society. Perhaps they need to learn the hard way, but they will learn. This is not a healthy environment for anyone.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. Then We Disagree

That's ok. There's no scripture to be followed here.
I'm still not buying that the "nose-holders" that voted for a felon who says he'll lower prices were motivated by hate.
I don't don't think all of that 49.8% that voted for are included, and a more aggressive tax relief (with raises to the upper & investor classes) would have convinced some of them to not hold their nose, and just vote for Ms. Harris.
If you can't provide empirical data to support that half of all voters were motivated by hate, I will remain unconvinced.

[Quiet Em]

9. Just a quick glance at any election comments on social media

should suffice as evidence of "hate", although I used the word cruelty.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. That's Not Remotely Quantitative

You're not going to convince me without hard data. Perusing social media is not hard data

We should just drop this.

[Quiet Em]

11. OK, then explain to me how running against, DEI, transgender people, women being treated as

equal human beings who deserve to be treated in medical emergencies, Black lives mattering and the other issues Trump ran on are economic and not cruel.

I don't need hard data. It was there for everyone to see. Everyone who wanted to see it, anyway. Those who ignore it or shrug it off don't get a pass. Sorry.

[BaronChocula]

18. Well said

"I'm voting for the 'they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats guy' because his desperate lies suggest he's better at helming the economy."

I'm not buying that.

[markodochartaigh]

17. Well,

I think that it is about 25% who are "cheering on the cruelty" although there are probably some of these that are not happy with the boorish behavior. Very many reich-wing religious people relish violence against the ones they hate, but do not like cursing or sexual innuendo at all.

I think that there is another 5% or so who are fine with the cruelty, as long as it means that they are in charge. Trump's approval rating in the Republican party has generally been about 80%. It dropped after the unsuccessful coup attempt (not because of the coup attempt, but because it was unsuccessful, in my opinion). But within a few months his approval rating was back around 80%. I think that this shows how many Republicans are authoritarian followers vs. wannabe authoritarian leaders.

I think that about 33% can't be bothered to care one way or another as long as they get their hamberders and sportsball.

And I think that about 33% detest the cruelty.

[lame54]

6. The war on reality

[uponit7771]

8. Real Wage Index is lowest in 70 years so telling some one the economy is great while ...

... Have to spend 33% less on food is all kinds of fucked up.

https://images.app.goo.gl/RhbaNaUGXvi3uUKS7

I didn't notice till after election otherwise I would've been screaming to all I know to change the message.

Benedict Donald can't fix this in less than a year, that's when we pounce with all we got.

[BumRushDaShow]

13. I know Reddit doesn't let you hot link images

but I found someone had X'd the same graph -

[yardwork]

14. I heard Harris focus on the economy, including increasing taxes on the wealthy.

Maybe we need to get louder and more direct, but honestly, Biden is the first President to begin turning around Reaganomics, which is the right direction.

[Self Esteem]

19. It's hard to craft a winning message when you're the party in power.

It's not fair but voters absolutely are going to say, "then why didn't you do this the last four years?"

The Democrats just had a tough environment to win in...simple as that.

[uponit7771]

50. Yep, their message now should be to hold Trump to a higher economic standard then they had knowing

... he's not going to solve any problems

[questionseverything]

55. Addressing the high price of groceries could of been as simple as

Expanding who receives food stamps and expanding the amount received for the lowest income folks

Food stamps create a higher gdp, for every dollar in fs $1.79 in GDP is created

[Self Esteem]

56. Sure. But again, when you're the party in power, the next logical question is the same...

"Then why didn't you do it?"

Even though Harris wasn't Biden, she was part of the administration.

[questionseverything]

57. She should of pushed the idea while campaigning

Said, “ call your reps, let’s do this now!”

[hay rick]

12. Have you learned nothing from our media?. We're supposed to blame ourselves when assholes vote for an asshole.

[Abstractartist]

15. Hmmm disagree

Our message was obviously not enough, or we would be seeing Madam President in January. My personal opinion is we do not address the Red State Mentality. That is the red states a just used to being poor and just believe what their repressors tell them about democrats. I live in a red state and the main statements on the campaign trail are democrats are liberal users who want to tax and spend, keep “illegals” here by paying them for nothing, and transgender people are going to rape children in the bathrooms. I think it’s time to really get a red state outreach going to show them that being poor, having terrible education for your children, and shitty healthcare is not needed to be commonplace.

[PortTack]

16. I disagree...you can't reach ingrained racist sexist ppl, rich and poor alike that will never vote for a WOC, or any woman

[Self Esteem]

20. Harris did worse among minorities than both Biden and Hillary.

Black and Hispanic men especially.

Black men supported Hillary by a margin of +69 points.

Black men supported Harris by a margin of +56 points.

That's a swing of thirteen points since 2016.

Are we suggesting Black men are racist against Black women? After all, they supported Hillary by a large number. So, it can't be a sex issue (in fact, Hillary did +9 points better than Biden among Black men.

Hispanic men supported Hillary by a margin of +31 points.

Harris actually lost Hispanic men by a margin of ten-points.

In 2020, Biden was +23 with Hispanic men. So, like with Black men, he did worse than Hillary.

White men?

In 2016, they supported Trump by a margin of +31 vs Hillary.

In 2024, they supported Trump by a margin of +22 vs Harris.

That means Harris did nine-points better than Hillary vs Trump.

She did one-point better vs Trump than Biden did (Trump was +23 vs Biden in 2020).

Harris lost because she lost ground among Black and Hispanic voters.

She did worse than Hillary among Hispanic women too.

Hillary was +44 with Hispanic women in 2016.

Harris was only +19.

That's a huge difference.

Even Black women supported Hillary by a wider margin than Harris, albeit the shift was marginal.

In 2016, she won Black women by a margin of +90.

Harris won Black women by a margin of +85.

That five-point shift is still significant, tho.

In the end, white people shifted more toward Harris. People of color shifted more away from Harris.

I'm not sure it's smart to call Black men sexist (especially when they voted more for Hillary in 2016 than Biden) or Hispanic women racist. That is not going to resonate with these groups and it certainly won't win 'em back.

Data:

2016: https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls

2020: https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/exit-polls/president/national-results

2024: https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/0

[Justice matters.]

29. So, less Black and Hispanic voters voted for a woman of color.

Was it because of "the price of eggs" (and the price of almost everything)?

Was it because those among them who voted for the convicted felon instead of for a WOC did it because they wanted to show their "anger" to the Democratic ticket in place since 2021? Or was it because they had a child credit check for a year and then no more checks?

Could well be. (In part.)

Well, if that's the case, good luck with the convicted felon's idiotic tariffs... (maybe they WILL regret their vote?)

[Self Esteem]

49. I think this will be an election where a lot of people cut off their noses to spite their face.

[Jk23]

52. Hold on. No one requested actual facts.

It hurts the outrage and the story we are telling ourselves.

[questionseverything]

54. We need to concentrate on the swing states

It actually upsets me that she wasted time in Texas

As Obama said, “ we have to beat them in overwhelming numbers, so there is no doubt “

[LilElf70]

21. This is probably

the best explanation I've read to date for what went down. Even though it's all over now, I and many others, still feel like shit. Especially knowing that the con man gets another chance when he should clearly be in jail. What a fucking mess.

[questionseverything]

53. I had lots of repubs say, " he didn't do anything wrong or Biden would of put him in jail "

[Quanta]

22. Not JUST that

They cheated. Trump spent tons of money and time pursuing the "rigged" angle. They learned how to do it, buttressed it with packed courts and brainwashing/gaslighting with the help of the media. We've all been played.

[ColinC]

23. The sickness can only be cured by a specific message and policies

Until that specific guininely economic populist and policies are implemented, that sickness driven largely by obscene wealth gaps, is only going to get worse.

I complete agree with you that there was nothing wrong with the general democratic message. Unfortunately right now it wasn't quite the cure to the ever worsening sickness... and soon not even my proposal will likely be enough.

[iemanja]

24. Right, let's keep it up

Make absolutely no changes so we can keep on losing. Way to go!

[karin_sj]

25. 100 percent correct

It's really sad, but so true

[Beakybird]

27. Wrong IMO

Harris should have aggressively told the American people that Biden did a fantastic job with post-Covid inflation - that USA outperformed all major economies on so many metrics. She blamed inflation on price gouging alone. She could have used inflation as an ASSET. High? Yes. Lower than the EU, Japan, China? Yes - because of Bidenomics.
She should have pressed why does Trump get a mulligan for Covid unemployment but Biden doesn't get a mulligan for post-Covid inflation?
She should have fessed up that Dems took too long to work on the border, but Republicans aren't serious. She just delivered the second half of this message.

[kelly1mm]

28. Somehow I don't think our takeaway (well, if we actually want to win elections) should be 'the voters suck!' nt

[Six117]

30. Agreed.

I guess for some, it's hard to come to terms with the idea that half of the country is on board with the cretin -but they are. They've shown us who they are. Believe them. I'm looking forward to us turning the page and strategizing ways to protect ourselves and our loved ones in an authoritarian kakistocracy (our new reality). What is resistance and fighting back *effectively* going to look like?

[valleyrogue]

33. Not "half the country." A huge number of people never bothered to vote.

I am sure there was mass purging of voter rolls and other such crap the right wingers are so good at.

[Cosmocat]

36. IMO

Our 1/3 is the only portion of the country that cares about honor, decency and democracy.

Their 1/3 knows what is coming and eagerly voted for it.

The 1/3 that didn't vote are willing to accept it.

The choice was W A Y too binary to see it any other way.

And, that is what I see out there w people.

[valleyrogue]

32. Kamala Harris ran a flawless campaign.

There was nothing wrong with the "messaging." It is just that too many people stayed home or didn't bother to vote, and those who voted for the felon were not about to ever vote for a woman, much less a Black woman.

[Shrek]

43. If the campaign was flawless then she could not have won under any circumstances

Are you suggesting that someone else should have been the candidate?

[betsuni]

34. Correct. Blaming, creating Democrats as fictional enemies. The key is "establishment." Only FDR isn't establishment,

and yet he was the MOST establishment, and SO WHAT, why so many magic buzzwords demonizing Democrats? Who resurrected this "establishment" "elite" "corrupted" purity test business to run for president? The subject is taboo.

Why did and do so many believe a fake populist who doesn't know anything and his complete revision of history? This hasn't been studied except for Stephen Stoft's "Ripped Apart: How Democrats can fight polarization and win." Whole thing's available to read online Google Books. Nobody listens.

Cynicism, stupidity, negativity only helps Republicans. Think for yourselves.

[J_William_Ryan]

35. "Our message was not the problem. Our current society is the problem."

Spot on.

A society of fear, ignorance, and stupidity – a post-truth America where facts are the enemy and the political process is hobbled by the firehose of rightwing disinformation and lies.

[MaeScott]

37. This is the result of decades of continuous..

RW propaganda. AM radio, small town tv stations, and so on. Pushed and played to American divisions relentlessly and this is the result. They had a looooong game and now have all the levers of power. Hunker down. Our message could not match Elmo ‘s outright pay to politic, and he desire to have the results we see too. . Despicable.

[Jit423]

38. THANK YOU for posting.

THANK YOU!!!

[Emile]

41. Stupid and wilfully ignorant people are the problem.

[Asa13]

42. You can only take that argument so far.

You can say oh the country is nothing but facists, racists and misogynists but the fact that the democratic party lost ground in pretty much every demographic and the fact that registered democrats stayed home says something about the message failed to connect with voters.

[ThePartyThatListens]

44. Go on offense

Democrats have been on defense too long

[videohead5]

46. The 3 reasons that the Dems lost

People just did not want a woman as president. Most people blamed the administration for inflation which was BS, and the media would not go after Trump like they should've.

[RandomNumbers]

58. #4, 5, and 6 - racists, misogynists, and idiots

Your #3 (the media would not go after Trump like they should've.) would not have mattered except for my 3 - and especially #6.

I didn't fucking need the media to tell me what a horrible person Trump is.

Remember when he mocked the disabled reporter? THAT should have been IT.

He said lots of crazy shit in this campaign and it was reported. It wasn't harped on but JHFC it was out there for anyone with the sense and decency to bother to look. Who the fuck votes for someone for President of the U.S. without putting in a little effort to read news from different sources? #6, that's who. (4 and 5 speak for themselves. They KNEW, and they WANTED that.)

Our society is indeed sick.

[alarimer]

48. Well, clearly they didn't buy what we were selling.

Some of that is the firehose of propaganda coming from the right in online spaces and the Democrats have no answer for that. So you are right in that sense. And they had no good counter for that (despite being correct in the particulars, that inflation and crime are actually DOWN, not up, and that many fewer people are crossing the border illegally, in part because Mexico is helping out). So you cannot counter lies with the truth; it simply DOES NOT WORK. And that is what Democrats usually try to do. I don't know the answer for this.

[standingtall]

51. There is a problem with our message

The volume isn't turned up high enough.

[dawg]

59. Yes there was.

It was too truthful.

Most American votes prefer lies.