Regarding violence- When do we start discussing mistreatment of children?

[Gregorian]

These people repressed their emotions as infants in order to survive, and then later used surrogates as their targets for rage.

We are seeing people acting out their emotional traumas. This is not about guns. Or knives. Or fists. This is about damaged people who are acting out their infant survival tactics, and other things, with those who are other than their parents. We saw it in George Bush, Romney, Saddam Hussein, Ceausescu; In those who commit crimes. As children these people were mistreated. AND they had no one to console and understand their suffering.

Child abuse is not confined to physical brutality. It is also mistreatment emotionally. It occurs in the earliest stages of life. It can be extremely subtle.

Has anyone here read Alice Miller's books? They should be required reading for everyone. http://www.alice-miller.com/books_en.php


I believe this to be the single most important issue on the planet today. If one studies the story of Hitler's youth, they'll see clearly what happened, and why he went on to do what he did. It is partly why we ended up in Iraq.

We can ban guns, and we'll still have evil politicians. We will still have rapists. We will still have drug addiction.

The problem we must address is emotional health. And this only comes from discovering and healing from the scars inflicted on all of us. Not just those who were physically struck.

[Harmony Blue]

1. First you make obtaining such tools difficult (ex. guns)

then you slowly dismantle the worship of violence and then work on mental health of our country. Universal health care is paramount for any civilization moving forward, but we as a nation must learn the hard way.

[Gregorian]

6. In a world where we are healed from our emotional traumas, guns could be stockpiled without troubles

It is not about the method. This is all about emotional traumas that are unaddressed.

I mentioned Alice Miller for a reason. She petitioned many world leaders, and the pope, to get them to bring child abuse to the forefront. They refused.

This is a topic that went nowhere for Alice Miller, and I suspect will go nowhere on this forum. And only those who have read her books will understand why.

We're all upholding the 4th Commandment. Yet we need to break this barrier down and discover what our parents did to us. This topic gets nothing but resentment and resistance. It's crucially important, especially with this many people walking around now.

[Brickbat]

2. It's all connected.

Any discussion about gun violence absolutely needs to encompass mental health, poverty and the cycle of violence.

[Gregorian]

8. Even poverty is addressed by this topic. No humane politician would allow unequality to that extent.

All of the things we discuss on this forum boil down to this subject of becoming conscious, and then growing out of our repressed childhood traumas. Freud was wrong. The parents do need to be blamed.

Fuck the 4th Commandment. It holds people back from pointing the blame at those who did the damage. And this is precisely why this subject is so resented by almost everyone.

[get the red out]

3. We need both

I agree that as a society we don't seem to have any sort of grasp of what it takes to raise an emotionally healthy child. But countries who have very strict gun laws seem to do a lot better than we do regarding violent deaths, even when they are somewhat culturally similar.

[Wait Wut]

4. Prevention of child abuse/neglect is one part of the solution.

We also need to address the lack of funding for mental health issues and the stigma attached to the mentally ill.

Thank you for your thread.

[ananda]

5. Everyone should read Alice Miller's ..

The Untouched Key

[Gregorian]

7. I have read that one yet. I'm still on The Truth Will Set You Free.

Thank you for your reply. If ever there were a topic I felt should make it to the greatest page, and hopefully enlighten people, it's this one.

I'm clear now that this is the only way we're going to find peace in the Middle East, civil rights for women, an end to drug abuse, war...

[Lionessa]

9. You've got a very good point. I think that folks who have essentially no family unit

or a truly dysfunctional, abusive one have a really hard time in the world today. Due to our kneejerk reactions compared to how "most" folks handle things, we tend to have few, if any, friends and have to face nearly all our issues either alone or within the debilitating arena of the damaging and dysfunctional family unit. With this nearly entire lack of quality relationships, it is easy to become aggressively and irrevocably disheartened and angry in our emotional and social and psychological isolation. Add to that the further weight society puts on folks now to be "normal" at all costs or have everyone angry at you and telling you everything is your problem, not societies, and grow up about that child abuse issue......

Being one, and having spoken to many others, it's a rare day I don't think of murder of either myself or one of my offenders, and I haven't been exposed to my offenders for decades, not even by phone or mail or on-line. Apparently this is one of the places I differ from most, in that I cut all ties for myself and my children, therefore the abuses stopped entirely. Most however still allow those same abusers in their heads, tweaking their daily perceptions about life, love, and themselves.

Of course I have to live with nearly everyone not in the know telling me what a heel I am because I won't deal with anyone in my family at all, how I should give my parents and relatives a chance and blah blah, and particularly at Xmas.... And of course, even when I let people know I have PTSD due to all the bs, still can't have a moment's consideration for the fact that I have no heart. All my progressivism comes from my logic, my mind, not my heart, as I have none, I do not now or ever, not even for my own children, do I feel love. Though I am often the first to step into situations to end violence, fighting, etc, I am entirely un-empathetic, it was the only way I could survive, and it is the only way I will survive in the future. If I allowed myself to feel for anyone else, I'd have to feel for myself, and that would be way too much to handle.

And as already mentioned, this time of year, everyone is encouraging the whole forgive, forget, love your families, hope your families love you.... It's a very stressful time of year for those of us who know better. I'm not surprised people break. We don't get the help, our disabilities are invisible but our reactions and responses due to our disabilities are further demonized by those we attempt to connect with, and as mentioned above we are usually recommended by professionals and stander-bys alike to continue to be immersed in the dysfunctional family and somehow learn to handle everything without help or support.

With all that said, there is no way to end child abuse, none. And since as a society we still can't even find what we need to embrace and welcome back our soldiers with clear and evident PTSD and reasons therefore, I doubt we will ever care to embrace those who've suffered abuse behind closed doors for at least 2 decades of childhood, have PTSD, but who have no uniform to explain why we are not "normal" to your way of thinking and behaving.

[Gregorian]

10. You've GOT to read Alice Miller's book(s). I think it will shock you.

The healing that can begin by knowing what she has discovered is incredible. Such a simple set of things she lays out.

One example is that one of the worst things one can do is to forgive their parents for abuse. That one goes against almost everyone's concepts of civility.

Abuse does happen, but we can undo the damage if we know how.

There's so much to gain from what she has written. Take a look at the testimonials on that link I posted. She has years of letters written to her. Believe me, I was hopeless. I thought I would never break out of the rage. Even yesterday I discovered yet another way in which my parents SUBTLY damaged me. I wish I could take more time here.

What bothers me is, as expected, you can see just how seriously this thread is taken by this forum. As in, not very much. It's a sensitive subject. We're still in the dark ages. But you and I don't have to be. I think you will find some real happiness in her books.

[yodermon]

11. Thanks for the Alice Miller reference. Not enough mention of her on this forum.