Sanders Tells Progressives to Abandon the Democrats

[Peacetrain]

https://politicalwire.com/2025/03/20/bernie-sanders-tells-progressives-to-abandon-the-democrats/

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) “has a message for his fellow progressives: Why don’t you shed the Democratic label and run as an independent, the way he does?,” the New York Times reports.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

We need this sh*t starting up again like we need a hole in the head. I went to see him a couple of weeks ago.. I realize he is an independent.. fine with all that.. but we do not need the party being pulled apart.. so disappointed in him right now..

____________________________________________________________________________________________-

edit to add.. so glad Walz in out there..

[Ocelot II]

1. Bernie, you are not helping.

[stoned]

39. At least he's doing SOMETHING

Meanwhile Obama, Kamala, and Biden are off the grid?

[Hekate]

126. No he certainly is not

[dalton99a]

2. Yeah, move to Vermont

Independents don't win elections except where he lives

[al bupp]

177. There's an independent in Maine, too

[SheltieLover]

3. We do not need this shit!

[Emile]

183. Agree, the last thing we need is a Centrist Hit Piece

with a misleading headline.

[senseandsensibility]

4. It sounds to me like he's saying run your own campaign

If he's telling Dems to run as an independent like "he" does (assuming that's trump), trump does not run as an Independent. He just runs his own campaign in his own way, but he is still an R. So Dems could conceivably do the same thing.

[intheflow]

19. "like 'he' does" - is talking about Sanders, not Trump.

There are a lot of places where a Dem can't win, but an Independent might. Then they can caucus with the Dems. This is sound advice.

[senseandsensibility]

28. Yeah, I think you're right

And although I am a Dem with no intention of leaving the party, an Independent might be our only hope in some places.

[EdmondDantes_]

191. I'm not sure the independents in the places where we currently can't win would reflect Sanders' positions

Currently a Democrat has a roughly zero percent chance in say Mississippi. If an independent to the left of the Democratic party ran, they wouldn't do any better. An independent running to the right of the Democratic party but left of the Republican might do better, especially if there wasn't a Democratic candidate running. But that said, it's generally harder as an independent because you don't have the benefits of a party structure. And not to disparage Sanders, but no individual politician is enough to fully replicate the benefits of a party. Even Trump with his cult of personality needed the Republican party

[Autumn]

42. That's what I think too. If people who don't identify with Democrats running Independents will help

get those votes. Independents will caucus with Democrats not Republicans. A lot of young people identify with Progressives, not moderate Democrats.

[musette_sf]

47. 👍

[Greyhead]

64. IMO Bernie would of beat TSF

Hillary had so much baggage from Bill. The right had a hard on for the Clintons.
I think that if Hillary had won she would have been an excellent President. Much better than Bill.

I don’t understand why the gop hated the Clintons so much. Bill had got bills passed that the gop had tried to get into legislation but failed under raygun and bush 1. Don’t ask don’t tell, 3 strikes, Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1996 and NAFTA(sometimes identified as a milestone in a rightward shift for the Democrats).

I still think Bill was a good President but even though he started the tilt to the middle of the political spectrum.

But Bernie didn’t have that baggage. There would be no “Lock her up” or the supposed email scandal with Bernie. And besides he was and still is more progressive than she was. And most Democrats.

Besides what is wrong in being an independent? Both Senators that we have caucus with us, most of the time. I was surprised that King went with Schumer.

I think that if we had more than 2 parties political parties it would be good for the country. Instead of either left or right as we have now the parties would have to work together to form a coalition to get things accomplished.

[Hekate]

128. So why did Kamala not win? All the baggage from being mixed-race? Or was it misogyny?

I don’t know how old you are, but I watched Hillary (not Bill, Hillary) get the crap beat out of her by the GOP for over 30 years for having the nerve to be a woman with a mind of her own.

The GOP just used whatever mud came to hand at any given time: Bill’s bimbos, Hillary’s faithfulness to him, Hillary being a Lesbian, Hillary insulting the women of America by saying she didn’t plan to stay home and bake cookies (she graduated at the top of her Law class for God’s sake), Hillary insulting the parents of America by making Family Law her focus (especially children’s rights not to be abused) and becoming a leader in her field. How dare she?

The GOP will still be using Hillary Clinton as a punching bag long after she is in her grave.

[Quiet Em]

136. Amen.

Thank you for saying this.

[Hekate]

143. Any time, believe me. Any time.

[elocs]

155. Both. Misogyny, but being mixed race was the clincher for enough

to simply choose not vote for her at all when usually supporting Democratic candidates.
Perhaps that accounts for the 6 million votes that Biden got in '20 that never went to Harris in '24.

[Hekate]

157. Just one name: Barack Hussein Obama

Male

[betsuni]

158. Women are automatically doubted, untrustworthy, hiding something, liar.

People were suddenly "We don't know her" -- how can they trust her? -- about Kamala.

I think Elizabeth Warren was surprised when it happened to her. Everyone was all "We'd vote for a woman, just not THAT woman" in 2016 but when Warren announced her presidential run the former enthusiasm for her faded. And then you-know-who calling her a liar and we saw her say "I think you called me a liar on national TV."

[elocs]

163. Yes, and being male made all the difference. n/n

[Greyhead]

175. I agree with you on both points about Hillary

I turn 79 on 4/2
My grandfather always said I was almost a fool. Sometimes I think he was wrong.

[Hekate]

181. We're close enough in age, you & I, to have seen a lot of things change, & to be optimistic about the future...

From the first time trump was “elected” the optimism has just bled out from me steadily.

When Obama came on the scene I really loved that guy — aside from his natural gifts of charm and finely honed intelligence, he was born in my home state, his parents were at my university several years earlier than I — wow. I did not believe for a second that racism in the US was over, but I thought his election meant we were growing up.

Then came the stunning backlash, and the uber-powerful people ready willing and able to take advantage of the backlash.

[bdamomma]

257. Hekate

I thought we were "growing up" when President Obama won for the 1st time too. The 2nd time was when you heard racist heads blowing up. Too bad for them.

[NH Ethylene]

255. What I kept seeing is her being equated with Biden.

And Biden being deeply unpopular thanks to nonstop denigration in his last year or so, and absent or impotent kickback to that message.

[brush]

137. Nah, Bernie had that socialist label and would've gotten swamped by the magat

[Hekate]

144. Bernie proudly wears the socialist label, tho he sometimes hems & haws over the definition...

…and the fine details of socialist vs democratic socialist. So yes, he would have been road kill as the Dem nominee.

[brush]

145. Absolutely.

[Greyhead]

174. But the maggots weren't as entrenched as they are now

Besides all the Bernie Bros didn’t vote for Hillary, they went to the pos we have now.

Bernie had massive crowds then and now. And we can’t elect a woman as president. The two we ran both lost. Hillary won the popular vote but that fucking electoral college continues to fuck things up.

[58Sunliner]

201. Do you not remember the people Bernie hired to run his campaign?

How it was run? Bernie is great at grandstanding but failed as a candidate for president for real reasons.

[Greyhead]

218. What reasons?

Explain yourself.

[Bmoboy]

6. Or we could...

Maybe we should start auditions for our own Marshall Petain from the senior Democratic Senators who have so nobly been defending our democracy.

[FalloutShelter]

7. Shocker... Bernie is dividing the Democratic Party...

AGAIN.
This is where I got off the Bernie Bus last time.

[LisaM]

34. He can't seem to help himself.

It's very unfortunate.

[FalloutShelter]

97. Thanks for the clarification.

[W_HAMILTON]

116. That's arguably even worse.

[Hekate]

129. Yes it is

[Scrivener7]

229. I can't believe he's pulling this shit again.

[JohnSJ]

8. What a jerk.

[SSJVegeta]

93. .

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2025, 11:11 AM - Edit history (2)

This is what he said: “If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

On edit: he also said "that." I was incorrect

[Oopsie Daisy]

194. What a steaming pile! Nobody is preventing anyone from becoming a Democrat.

Hell, even Bernie "runs as a Democrat" in Vermont then switches back to being an Independent. Nobody is keeping him out of the party.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[Hekate]

258. Joe Biden should have been the answer to Bernie and "the workingmen's" prayers then

Nobody was ever as supportive of unions and workers than Joe Biden — and he included working women and our particular needs without being begged to do so, either.

So why weren’t Bernie and his followers shouting that from the rooftops? Hm?

[SSJVegeta]

265. Bernie was almost literally shouting from the rooftops

Almost all Bernie supporters did not want Biden replaced.

[stillcool]

9. if he's speaking in a red state...it makes sense to

run as an independent for any election. Local, State to get your foot in the door.

[usonian]

10. There's an IF clause. If the Democrats don't reach out then people will be running as independents

https://archive.ph/AHv8J#selection-1141.0-1141.284

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party,” he said. “If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

I just heard Bernie and AOC speak in Las Vegas and the only slight on the Democratic party was that it has some rich oligarchs backing it, like the other side. And the influence shows.

Unless the party adopts the working class and labor focus, and calls out the rich as "addicted to greed" as Bernie and AOC just id, then it will lose support of young people, as it is doing.

[Tootbsb]

57. So much tone deafness. The monied class is not you if you're working everyday.

They know nothing about your struggle and moreover, don’t give a rip. But, keep hoping they’ll do something. I guess the beatings will continue.

[bob4460]

11. The people want somebody that will fight for them

And the Democrats just keep rolling over, and everybody is tired of it.We do need new leadership at the top of the party some real progressives not this corporate lead party we have now.

[Oopsie Daisy]

14. Who is "rolling over" ... how are they "rolling over".

What would you do differently?

[MorbidButterflyTat]

29. Wondering same

[Oopsie Daisy]

33. Thank you! I'm sick and tired of these baseless accusations and nonstop shitting on Democrats.

[Prof. Toru Tanaka]

62. Uh....Chuck Schumer?

And I agree about progressives running as independents in red areas.

[Oopsie Daisy]

84. Really? How did he "roll over" .... what would you have had him do instead?

I presume that your answer will be that he should have NOT voted for it... but have you thought through the consequences of doing that?

[betsuni]

37. What does "corporate lead party" mean exactly? Who has changed policies because of corporations?

Examples? Any Democrats running on raising taxes for the wealthy and corporations and then backing Republican tax cuts? No? If corporations lead the Democratic Party why were there zero votes for Trump tax cuts? Are the corporations, billionaires and oligarchs beholdening them wrong?

Or do you just mean Democrats are capitalists, like FDR, and not fake socialists?

[Oopsie Daisy]

51. Performative buzz words. Where's my BINGO card?

[Hekate]

131. We sure do -- like Joe Biden did every day of his presidency. Really odd how Bernie chokes on the words ...

… to enumerate Biden’s huge accomplishments on infrastructure (JOBS) and everything else.

[Oopsie Daisy]

12. Why would he want to sabotage, divide and weaken the Democratic party?

That serves no good purpose at all. I'm afraid I cannot support that idea, and neither should anyone here. This is a gathering spot FOR Democrats who also SUPPORT the Democratic party and our Democratic leadership. This isn't "Independent Underground" or "Green Underground" or "Nader Underground" or "People's Party Underground" or "No Labels Underground"

Bad move, Bernie. It's time to unite, not divide, not separate. Stop it. Do better.

>> Peacetrain writes:
>> but we do not need the party being pulled apart.. so disappointed in him right now..

You are correct! We don't need this anti-Democrat and anti-Democratic party bullshit. I wish he'd STFU.

[Magoo48]

185. Why all the contempt for an old man who is on the road fighting against Oligarchs and fascists

I also believe running independents in red states might work. If we can survive and recreate a post Trump world,
much will need to change. Post Orange will also require post billionaire controlled vulture capitalism and corporate oppression. Is someone who fights against these things and happens to be an independent, but sees the things which must evolve in much the same way as a progressive Democrat, not an ally.

Perhaps we’re better served when we save our figh for the true villains in this battle.

[Oopsie Daisy]

193. "Contempt"?? Oh good grief! Spare me! It's absurd characterize it that way... as if it's "personal" *

* and that simply by being "virtuous" or simply by "fighting" hard enough we can "evolve" and overcome. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but in the real world, we have a de facto two-party system.

In national elections, the winner will be EITHER at Democrat or a Republican. This is guaranteed by the Electoral College process. If a "third party" or "independent" candidate gained enough votes to deny the Republican or Democratic candidates the required 270 votes, then it will go to the House. I can guarantee you that they will NOT choose the third-party or independent candidate.

Why do you perceive my reality-based words as little more than "contempt" for an "old man"?

Elsewhere (in this thread or perhaps another similar topic) there was someone who tried to boil it down to a sarcastic summary of "Oh, I see, party over country, eh?" And that would be wrong too. Again, in a two-party system... it is indeed the DEMOCRATIC PARTY that must be strong enough to defeat the GOP. Bernie's idea of fracturing and dividing and marginalizing and diminishing the importance and unity of the Democratic party is FUCKING DANGEROUS.

He needs to stop. What I'm expressing here has nothing to do with "contempt for an old man" (as you suggested) but instead is about what a dumb and dangerous idea it is. I live in a reality-based world and the notion that a divided and watered-down Democratic party will be able to defeat the GOP is pure fantasy.

[Magoo48]

195. I'm a lefty liberal, progressive. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean shit unless I act like one.

Just being a liberal or an independent or a Democrat is just a tag unless they step out and claim the label with their actions.

[Oopsie Daisy]

198. Oh, I see. So am I to understand that "voting one's conscience" is more important than actually winning?

That was a refrain that we heard often in 2016. People like Michael Moore, Jane Sanders, Nina Turner, Cornel West and Susan Sarandon promoted that idea in defense of those who voted for Jill Stein.

And for "lefty liberal, progressives" who want to "act like one" (to use your words) then they should ONLY vote for or support candidates who are "perfect" rather than the candidates who actually have a chance of winning? This type of virtue signaling and performance voting is what gets us in the situation we're in today.

It's the same thing that happened in 2016, and a similar thing happened again last year with the "Uncommitted" movement who felt that Biden wasn't "good enough" and so they voted for Trump (to send a message) or the didn't vote at all (to punish the Democrats).

That's not very smart. It's emotional. It's impulsive. It's selfish... but it's not very smart at all.

[Magoo48]

211. yet, with all the "Smart", here we are.

[Oopsie Daisy]

212. Yep... lots of people still defending voting third party and splitting the liberal/progressive vote-count *

* and giving the win to the GOP. It doesn't take being "smart" to figure out the math. What it takes is someone actually caring more about winning (ie: defeating the GOP) than they are in engaging in ridiculous purity tests, or virtue signaling by "voting their conscience" even if it means NOT supporting Democrats.

[Magoo48]

235. In our system, voting third party is a loser and a waste.

What I promote is a broader highway. The acceptance and inclusion of a more expensive-range ideas heading towards the same destination. we should give our party the flexibility to change as new ideas come along in order to suit our needs instead of trying to mold our needs into the rigid formats of the traditional ways of our party.

[Oopsie Daisy]

236. It is often intriguing to observe criticisms directed towards the Democratic party from external sources rather than *

It is often intriguing to observe criticisms directed towards the Democratic party from external sources and non-members rather than from within. Meaningful change typically originates from active participation and contribution to the party's growth and evolution. Constructive engagement, support for Democratic initiatives, and active involvement in recruiting voters, volunteers, and candidates are vital components of fostering the desired transformations.

Mere criticism without tangible involvement can be likened to reciting a list of grievances without taking concrete steps towards resolution. To effect genuine change, one must be prepared to engage in the hard work internally, rather than perpetually claiming exclusion from the process. Allegations of Democratic party corruption or assertions that both sides are indistinguishable, or that party leadership is lacking in courage and competence, are unfounded and counterproductive narratives.

Promoting such fallacies not only serves as a form of unproductive complaint but also inadvertently aids in voter suppression, ultimately benefiting opposing political factions. Opting for a stance of neutrality, supporting third-party candidates, or abstaining from voting altogether can inadvertently strengthen the position of political adversaries.

The portrayal of the Democratic party as narrow, exclusive, or inflexible is not only inaccurate but also serves to discourage voter participation. It is imperative to foster a more inclusive and constructive dialogue to facilitate progress and unity within the party.

[Magoo48]

239. We are at an impasse, but we vote the same way.

[Oopsie Daisy]

240. There exists a distinction between merely voting for Democrats and actively supporting the party through meaningful *

There exists a distinction between merely voting for Democrats and actively supporting the party through meaningful engagement. While casting a vote is relatively straightforward, true dedication and effort are required to contribute effectively to the party's growth and development. It is easy to voice grievances, but enacting tangible change demands diligent work and commitment.

Encouraging individuals to pursue independent and third-party paths outside the Democratic party is counterproductive. It is essential for those offering guidance to lead by example, demonstrating a willingness to engage within the party structure to foster improvement and progress.

A poignant analogy likening this scenario to individuals declining to participate or volunteer with a school prom committee, yet critiquing its music and decorations, underscores the importance of active involvement and constructive contribution to bring about desired changes within a group or organization. It's easy to be a malcontent thorn or squeaky wheel, but it takes hard work and dedication to actually make a meaningful difference.

[adam_vermont]

13. Propaganda by Bernie haters

My God, get over yourself and your bitterness because Bernie has been right all this time. Mr Schumer has done more in the last week to divide Democrats than Bernie has ever done. At least he is standing up and not knuckling under. I'm proud of my senator.

[Cha]

27. Take your own advice.

[mcar]

98. Well said

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

109. Bernie IS A FIGHTER! AOC is a FIGHTER

Like Bernie A LOT

Like AOC A LOT.

While the centrist Democratic members of Congress
have let Democratic voters down over and over again.

I , like most Liberals, Progressives and Democratic voters —

WE WANT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TO RAISE HELL !!!
GET MAD AS HELL AND START FIGHTING THIS SOB ADMINSTRATION
FULL OF RACISTS AND FASCISTS

“Making Deals With The Devil” has PISSED OFF the VAST MAJORITY
IF NOT ALL OF VOTERS WHO VOTED FOR HARRIS

FIGHT BECAUSE WE WANT TO SAVE OUR DEMOCRACY FROM TRUMP DICTATORSHIP

[W_HAMILTON]

122. I want someone that actually accomplishes something...

...not someone that merely """fights""" for decades and decades, all the while everything they purport to be fighting for drifts further and further away.

Clinton, definitely Obama, definitely Biden -- my life was directly made better by all of them. And they all would be called centrists by Sanders and most of his supporters.

Give me practical progressivism over the kind that """fights""" and """fights""" and yet their list of progressive accomplishments for everyday Americans is as long as a Republican's...

[Nixie]

124. I'm finding it very odd and damaging that Bernie doesn't

tout Biden’s infrastructure jobs. Very good jobs for the working class, but Bernie stumps that Democrats have shut out workers. Huh?? I can’t figure out why he still misrepresents accomplishments.

It’s been 10 years of his shadow messaging about our party, and the party ratings are at an all time low. Hmmm.

[Hekate]

130. What Nixie said

[ReRe]

178. Bull shite!

I heard Bernie many many many times bragging on ALL Joe Biden's accomplishments.

[betsuni]

196. The all time low approval ratings are encouraging the idea that incremental/compromise

progress like the ACA and infrastructure plan are garbage because they don't fix all America's problems at once and transform the country into utopia through revolution (the only way true progress can be made).

Somehow Democrats only help the wrong working class (the "identity politics" one) so it totally doesn't count, and if you've sat through some college courses or take a shower in the morning instead at the end of the day you're a hopeless elite.

[sheshe2]

127. Highly Recommended! Excellent post, W_Hamilton.

Biden( a "centrist" according to BS) actually:
Service & Solidarity Spotlight: Biden Becomes First President to Walk a Strike Picket Line; Joins UAW in Michigan

Working people across the United States have stepped up to help out our friends, neighbors and communities during these trying times. In our Service & Solidarity Spotlight series, we'll showcase one of these stories every day. Here’s today’s story.

President Joe Biden walked the picket line with members of the International Union, United Automobile, Aerospace and Agricultural Implement Workers of America (UAW) at General Motors’ Willow Run parts center near Detroit, becoming the first U.S. president to join a labor union on strike.

UAW President Shawn Fain railed against the billionaire class. “They think they own the world,” he said. “But we make it run” and “our president has chosen to stand up with workers in our fight for economic and social justice.”

AFL-CIO President Liz Shuler said, “President Biden is demonstrating once again that he is the most pro-union president in history. Working people know he has our backs every day and that he understands that UAW members’ fight for a fair contract is deeply connected to the struggle over the soul of our country. We stand with President Biden, the UAW and workers across the country who are sick and tired of getting the short end of the stick. Together, we’re organized to fight back against the corporate CEOs who have rigged the system against working people for far too long.”

https://aflcio.org/2023/9/27/service-solidarity-spotlight-biden-becomes-first-president-walk-strike-picket-line-joins

[Magoo48]

197. Republicans? What are republicans?

All of our fine, and often successful, Dem leaders worked hard, yet, here we are.
Something must change; let’s not exclude good ideas and fighters because of their tags.

[Cha]

113. Mahalo, mcar..

[FirstLight]

46. Exactly 💯

Everybody's so quick to jump on the hate Bernie bus.. I'm trying to pick my words carefully here but I believe that people can be so entrenched in the label that they don't see the need for action. Democrat, independent, Republican. I personally don't give a shit what letter is after somebody's name, as long as they respect human rights and work with the people and do their God damn job. Chuck Schumer and the 10 Democrats that voted on that CR should be held accountable, and I do believe that we should look at all corporate interests across the board and how it can influence the votes of our Representatives. Democrats aren't all just squeaky clean because they have a D after their name...
I'm not going to give examples because I don't have any, because I personally have not gone and researched.
But I will say that the idea of making all of them, regardless of party, where patches on their suits like NASCAR drivers to show who their sponsors are is not a bad idea

[SocialDemocrat61]

15. Be careful

I got attacked by several people in another thread just for pointing out that Sanders was an independent. I didn’t criticize Sanders or independents in any way but was accused of bashing Sanders and independents as well as causing democrats of losing elections.

[WhiteTara]

16. that's Bernie nt

[intheflow]

17. Okay, party over country, got it!

If people don't want to run for elections as a Democrat, or if they can't if they ever want to win, then telling them to run as an independent is great because maybe they'd win in traditionally red areas. Honestly doesn't matter what letter is in parenthesis after their names as long as they caucus with the Dems.

[mikewv]

63. Exactly! Finally a reasonable reply. Thank You. nm

nm

[SnoopDog]

18. There are many Democrats who support Sander's message

Please take note….

[thought crime]

150. Yes, there are many Democrats who Love Bernie

Bernie is one of the few progressives that simply cannot be demonized by the right-wing propaganda machine. He is one of the very very few American leaders to be admired by European Lefties such as Yanis Varoufakis and Slavoj Žižek. I once saw a Bernie poster pasted on the window of a cool cafe in Reykjavik. Bernie is much loved and he is absolutely on the side of those who think society should be structured to support all people and not just a wealthy elite. He is not on a book tour; he is out there leading a movement against oligarchs. And right now, he is the bright star in a dismal sky.

[ReRe]

179. I concur!

And welcome to DU!

[betsuni]

20. The Democratic Party: policies for the working/middles classes (policies that work, not just yelling promises).

Who was the last president? Did he ignore the working class and have no policies, ignore unions, have no idea of inequality in the country, thought Trump was great guy? Did Kamala run on tax cuts for the rich and repealing the ACA? Who is doing all the ignoring? Name names.

Now we know what the Oligarchs tour is about, no wonder the only mention of Democrats is that they're corrupted by oligarchs and billionaires same as Republicans.

Thought when Symone Sanders became an Independent the other day that an independent is running for president, she can run their campaign. Taking Independent candidates mainstream. A type of Third Way No Labels. Just change the label, maybe customers will think it's a new product. Revolution Lite. Look at me, I'm an Outsider! Who knows, it's an ideology built on things that aren't true.

[mcar]

103. Exactly!

This is driving me crazy. Pres. Biden saved this fcking country - from Covid, from the economic collapse, from TSF's lunacy - the list goes on.

He brought back more working class jobs than any president in decades.

And yet, he wasn't perfect. He didn't restore the country fully in less than 4 years from a deadly pandemic, and a sociopath in the WH. So, he had to go. And, of course, people couldn't bring themselves to vote for the woman.

So they re-elected the person who wrecked everything just a few years ago.

What's the first thing Bernie did? Go on TV and scream about how Democrats don't reach out to the working class.

Who TF did Biden work for if not the working class?

[ReRe]

180. You're just fighten' mad aren't you?

Can't we all just get along? Doesn't the Democratic Party not have a big tent?

[betsuni]

219. Who said this:

"Oh God, in any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party, but in America, we are. ... Democrats can be too big of a tent." That the Congressional Progressive Caucus will "let anybody the cat dragged in call themselves a progressive. ... There's no standard."

[ReRe]

223. I don't have the slightest idea. Who said that?

[Bmoboy]

21. Political science

Oxymoron

[leftstreet]

23. FFS No one's reading the article

He's saying drop the "label," reach out to working class people... OR ELSE Independents will start winning

Can't see where he's wrong here

[alarimer]

44. Exactly

"Democrat" is a toxic label in some places. It shouldn't be, obviously, but here we are. I think the notion of independence sells in some places (even if, for practical purposes, running as an actual independent is impossible).

I think Democrat would have a lot more success if they stopped running from progressive policies like a living wage, unions, taxing the rich. Usually in red areas, they move to the center and fail most of the time

[ibegurpard]

54. Big contingent of people here

Always ready for Bernie pile-on.
Doesn't matter if it's grossly inaccurate clickbait.

[róisín_dubh]

153. It's absolutely exhausting...

[William769]

24. Bernie can go fuck himself I can say that because he's not a Democrat never has been & never will be.

Anybody else for that matter thats ask people to leave the Democratic party can also go fuck themselves.

JPR is where you need to be, not here.

[SnoopDog]

26. He certainly does everything he can to make our Democracy stronger, and

And he certainly is a 'man of the people'.

And he certainly has the same progressive Democratic values as I DO.

[William769]

31. And yet he's not a Democrat.

I remember 2016 all to well. He wants to help fix the Democratic party he's welcomed to join, other than that, he can fuck off!

[SnoopDog]

35. Which of Sander's political policies do you disagree with?

Just wondering...

[William769]

38. Does not matter.

As a Democrat I follow their platform.

[SnoopDog]

41. Here is one of my disagreements with the 2024 Dem Platform:

Healthcare.

The platform highlights the Affordable Care Act. The ACA is still private health insurance.

I, being a FDR Progressive Democrat want Medicare for All.

Private health insurance says "yes we have to deny you care and yes it will kill you, but we don;t care. We want profit'.

Could there be anything less humane than that? Absolutely disgusting,,

[William769]

43. What did we have before the ACA?

President Obama did what he could with what he had. ACA is still the law of the land thanks to Democrats. Is it time to move forward? Yes. But how do you do that when you control no part of the Government?

[SnoopDog]

50. According to the 2024 Dem Platform, the Democrats want to keep the ACA.

So, it seems the Dem Party will NOT move forward on Medicare for All.

Unless, somehow, we change the Dem Platform. I am not sure how to voice opinions on platform planks. If somebody knows how to provide input to the platform, please post!

[William769]

58. They also want to lower prescription drug cost.

You can start by voicing your opinion here https://democrats.org/ I have many times through the years. I would like to also add I have not meant to be snarky with you but recently & whats been happening I have been on edge in more ways than one.

[SnoopDog]

71. Thanks for the civil chat!..nt

[Celerity]

133. At least 4 centrist, corporate-friendly Dems tried to scupper Biden's pharma cost reductions. These are the type of Dems

who undercut our messaging and tried to reverse some of Biden's and most of the rest of our Party's good work. They worked with Rethugs to do Big Pharma's bidding.

Democrats Josh Gottheimer (NJ), Wiley Nickel (NC), Scott Peters (CA), and Donald Davis (NC) all co-sponsored at least one of multiple bills that would stifle regulators’ ability to bring down prices of drugs covered by the Medicare. The bills would significantly reduce or outright block the drug price reduction framework contained in Biden's 2022 Inflation Reduction Act.

3 of the 4 are or were (Nickel retired) No Labels' Problem Solvers Caucus members, with Gottheimer being the co-chair, and the 4th, Davis, was the lone Democratic co-sponsor of a bill by Rethugs Greg Murphy and Brett Guthrie that significantly weakens Medicare's ability to lower prices:

The lone Democrat willing to weaken Medicare’s power to negotiate drug prices

https://www.statnews.com/2024/02/05/democrat-weaken-medicare-drug-price-negotiation/

All 4 are or were also in the moderate/centrist New Democrat Coalition, with Nickel and Gottheimer also in the conservative Blue Dog Coalition (Gottheimer still is, Nickel, as stated retired).

One of the bills, the Optimizing Research Progress Hope and News (ORPHAN) Cures Act, would exclude vital drugs for many diseases from the price reduction process.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/5539/text?s=1&r=88

Two other bills,

the Maintaining Investments in New Innovation (MINI) Act

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/5547

and the Ensuring Pathways to Innovative Cures (EPIC) Act,

https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7174/cosponsors?s=7&r=1

would delay or block the price reduction apparatus for many other drugs.

The four have cumulatively taken in more than $400,000 from Big Pharma during just the 2023–2024 congressional session.

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/don-davis/industries?cid=N00049636&cycle=2024

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/josh-gottheimer/industries?cid=N00036944&cycle=2024

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/wiley-nickel/pacs?cid=N00049133&cycle=2024

https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/scott-peters/industries?cid=N00033591&cycle=2024

[William769]

134. Thanks for this.

[elocs]

156. With the fear of losing my SS & all my income, I'm on edge & stress all the time now. n/t

[SocialDemocrat61]

61. LBJ created Medicare, not FDR

FDR did initially want to include a healthcare provision to social security but quickly withdrew it. Several attempts were made by progressive democrats in congress in the 30s and 40s to enact some type of national healthcare legislation, FDR either didn’t fully support them or outright opposed them.

[betsuni]

141. I thought many, if not most, Americans (including unions) wanted the option of private health insurance.

ACA with public option and private insurance gives them choice. And a Medicare for All plan was tried in Vermont (Green Mountain Care) and another state, I think, but couldn't make it work economically. ACA-type program worked very well in Massachusetts before going national. Goal of universal health care is same, health care as a human right and not a privilege a Democratic policy for many many decades.

Medicare for All as a purity test to divide Democrats does nothing but help Republicans.

[Passages]

83. What he said:

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[lapucelle]

114. What he said is on the record.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[uponit7771]

167. I need to see this in video, touring with AOC to get Dems to run as independent sounds incredulous

[lapucelle]

200. He said it in an interview to the New york Times. There's a direct quote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[uponit7771]

166. SANDERS NEVER SAID OP CLAIM !!!

[William769]

168. This has been posted throughout this thread & fallen on deaf ears.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

[uponit7771]

170. ...and I said I need video, sounds opposite of "Tours with AOC" then. says something this fucked up

If it comes out of his mouth during a tour with AOC I'm wondering why she didn't address it

[uponit7771]

172. "told the times" ...that In and of itself is a red flag. I'll wait for video before assigning a quote like that to

...him and AOC who he's touring with

[Oopsie Daisy]

217. De Nile ain't just a river in Egypt, is it?

It's amusing the pretzel logic and contortions that will be used to defend or deny things like this. Even when the proof and the words are right there in front of them... the response is to "kill the messenger".

[SnoopDog]

25. Here is the quote from the PoliticalWire article..

Said Sanders: “If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

I think this makes perfect sense.

[SSJVegeta]

56. Wait. So the headline in the article was a lie?

Shocker!

[Woodwizard]

88. Short article but from the comments 98% never read it... See that a lot.

[lapucelle]

115. Here's the link from the Political Wire article.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[valleyrogue]

30. So how will Sanders tearing up the Democratic Party and supporting what he does allowed under DU rules?

Lots of questions here.

Never cared for him.

[peggysue2]

32. I commend Senator Sanders for everything he's been doing with these Fight the Oligarchs rallies, but . . .

This advice to progressives to split from the Democratic Party is not helpful in a moment of high crisis.

Focus is the word for the day.

Focus on the real danger which is Trump, Musk, MAGA and the Tech Bros/Oligarchs.

[Passages]

79. What he said:

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[lapucelle]

117. What he also said.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[uponit7771]

169. Need video, sounds antithetical to tour

[lapucelle]

199. He said it in an interview to the New York Times. It's a direct quote.

[uponit7771]

214. Again, don't trust NYT and need video cause this is mondo bullshit coming from him if true.

[Oopsie Daisy]

220. If it's false, why hasn't he (or any of his spokespersons) denied or explained it? Hmmm?

Hint: it's true.

[uponit7771]

221. Cause he doesn't answer to NYT lies? I'll wait, if he's down with what he's said he'll say it again but on the face of

... it "rallying with AOC.." and "run as an independent" don't go together.

[Oopsie Daisy]

225. A lot of folks are checking off the items in this list, I see. There aren't many left.

✅ Blaming the Media: Claiming that the media is biased, unfair, or has misinterpreted the politician's words or actions.

✅ Deflection: Shifting the focus to a different topic or issue to distract from the controversial statement or action.

✅ Character Assassination: Attacking the credibility or character of those who are reporting the statement or action.

✅ Victimhood: Portraying the politician as a victim of unfair attacks or persecution.

🔲 Just a Joke: Dismissing the statement or action as a joke or humor that was misunderstood.

✅ Misquoting/Misrepresentation: Claiming that the politician's words were taken out of context or misrepresented.

✅ Conspiracy Theory: Suggesting that there is a conspiracy against the politician to discredit them.

🔲 Lack of Information: Arguing that the full story is not known and that there may be additional information that justifies the statement or action.

🔲 Loyalty: Blindly supporting the politician out of loyalty or a belief in their overall agenda, regardless of individual statements or actions.

✅ Contextualization: Providing a different context for the statement or action to make it seem more reasonable or acceptable.

🔲 A.I. digitally manipulated video/audio: Claiming that the whole thing was faked (see also: "Conspiracy Theory" above.)

While I can appreciate someone's loyalty to Sanders, there is great value in exploring different viewpoints to get a more comprehensive understanding of the topic? Sometimes, looking at things from various angles can help us grow and evolve our thinking. I've found that being open to reevaluating my own beliefs has led to some insightful discoveries. It's always valuable to challenge our own assumptions and ensure they align with the most accurate information available, and falling back on a well-worn list of excuses and denials serves no useful purpose.

[betsuni]

241. Wow! Exactly. I find those kind of supporters amazingly ignorant of the person -- think quotes (things the person

has been saying for DECADES, their ideology) are fake -- really don't know the first thing about them but made up this deity in their heads. Lots of projection too.

Such a shame. Makes a person ripe for manipulation once they live in that fact-free conspiracy theory religion-like world. Not good for the deity either, getting worked up about themselves when they know they're selling fake goods.

[uponit7771]

242. I don't see "I'll wait to hear it directly from him again" on the list

[Oopsie Daisy]

244. That would fall under "Deflection" and/or "Misrepresentation" *

* you'll never see every possible example (including the one you gave) explicitly quoted. But it definitely fits within either or both of those more broad categories.

[uponit7771]

245. "explicitly quoted" only if absolute trust has been established, it hasn't and never should be..

That's how MAGA starts believing everything MAGA media tells them cause MAGA doesn't take into account well meaning people could be wrong

This is a case were people ***SHOULD*** get verification because it intimates a divergence of aligence..

[Oopsie Daisy]

246. And there we go... two more checkmarks added.

✅ Lack of Information: Arguing that the full story is not known and that there may be additional information that justifies the statement or action.

✅ Loyalty: Blindly supporting the politician out of loyalty or a belief in their overall agenda, regardless of individual statements or actions.

[uponit7771]

248. Again, both hinge if blind acceptance and that's what MAGA does. I've also said I'd change my

... perspective of Sanders if his thrust in these rallies is to tell people unconditionally to go independent.

I don't know what your point it's right now

[Oopsie Daisy]

249. The objective was made clear in the interview. I take him at his word. Why would he lie?

Also, it fits with the long term and overall pattern of contempt for Democrats and the Democratic party. This is the same message that we've heard for years. The words may change, but the message is the same.

>> if his thrust in these rallies is to tell people unconditionally to go independent.
What difference does it make where he says it? He said it to a NYT reporter... isn't that bad enough? Why give him a free pass simply because he's sticking to a script / teleprompter at the rallies and in an unguarded unscripted moment with a reporter, the truth slipped out?

>> I don't know what your point it's right now
Yes, obviously. That explains a lot.

[uponit7771]

250. I don't blindly trust the NYT with this gating information... I don't see why that's an issue. Especially seeing the ..

... person hes rallying with won't agree with that stance.

When something doesn't make sense on it's face it's time to wait till one gets more info when that's available...and it is

MAGA is the cult not us ... We can confirm words and stances before making judgement when something doesn't jive

[Oopsie Daisy]

260. Yes, so you've said. I've already put a check mark in that column.

🙄🥱😴💤🛌

[uponit7771]

266. GREAT !!! We agree we don't eat shit on the big issues without confirming what M$M says ... Also looks like another ...

... unsourced quote from MM ... no clear results verifying it as of 4 central.

I'll wait on that too cause we agree; get hard confirmation on shit that looks funny from the M$M.

:thumbs up:

[betsuni]

267. MM right here on Ari Melber 03/21/25 (already posted on DU).

[Oopsie Daisy]

268. No. Wrong again... The checkmark was added on YOUR behalf, as a predictable response *

* in my lighthearted scorecard of predictable responses and excuses. As we both know, I'm not the type of person falls into a trap of irrational excuse making, denials or avoidance. In fact, I'd only be suspicious if what they had said was out of character, but in both cases, their words are completely in alignment with what they've said in the past. It fits a pattern of their previous well-known contempt for the Democratic party.

[betsuni]

253. Message is clear. Bernie surrogate Michael Moore repeats it:

"Bernie is putting forth the idea that the Democrats have let us down in such a profound way. We need people running for office as independents. ... Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. Neither am I. And there's a reason for that, it should be evident by now." Then he says Democrats aren't the cavalry and won't save us -- but he's saying independents are the cavalry.

Full steam ahead against Democrats, the real enemy. As MM said, Democrats are "a greater roadblock to progress than Trump."

[Oopsie Daisy]

259. And there we have it again! Confirmation!

Neither of these two characters is a friend of the Democratic party. I despise Michael Moore for it.

[betsuni]

263. Good description by Roy Delfino:

When "given the privilege of shaping the political worldview of millions of bright, young, open-minded first-time voters, he chose to use his powers to convince them of a simplistic, poisonous worldview. It goes a little like this: the vast majority of Americans actually agree with [his] ... policies, but millionaires and billionaires [now oligarchs] have bribed our entire government, as well as the DNC, into doing everything they can to stop true progressive ideas. So many young progressives, once inspired by [him], were convinced by him to see corruption and conspiracy behind every corner, to wallow in apathy and anti-establishment helplessness." Which turns into hate.

[Passages]

184. In the context of his first statement.

Fair-minded people like AOC who is a Democrat and campaigns with him against Trump would not be doing so if Sanders were asking people to abandon the party.

I trust her and Sander's intentions here.

[MichMan]

36. "Why don't you shed the Democratic label and run as an independent, the way he does?,"

Why does he always change his affiliation for the primary then?

[AZJonnie]

85. That is not what he said, that's the 'interpretation' by the article's author

And the clickbait headline is garbage too

[Celerity]

108. Taegan Goddard (Political Wire) is a notorious clout-chaser who uses slanted hyped-up headlines for clicks, plus the OP

wilfully left out the 2nd paragraph (there was only 2 paragraphs in the Goddard piece so no good reason to not post it, we have a 4 paragraph rule on DU) which changes the frame:

Said Sanders: “If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[lapucelle]

119. Here's the on the record quote from the New York Times interview

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[sheshe2]

132. Media and Money, his words.

Bernie Sanders on Monday told NBC’s Chuck Todd that he ran as a Democrat to get more media coverage.

During a town hall-style event in Columbus, Ohio, the independent Vermont senator said, “In terms of media coverage, you have to run within the Democratic Party.” He then took a dig at MNSBC, telling Todd, the network “would not have me on his program” if he ran as an independent.

Money also played a role in his decision to run as a Democrat, Sanders added.

“To run as an independent, you need — you could be a billionaire," he said. "If you're a billionaire, you can do that. I'm not a billionaire. So the structure of American politics today is such that I thought the right ethic was to run within the Democratic Party.”

https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bernie-sanders-independent-media-coverage-220747

[lapucelle]

161. It appears to be a strategy.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) has officially turned down the Democratic nomination for the U.S. Senate, according to the Vermont Secretary of State's Office.

Sanders, who took home nearly 91 percent of the vote in last week's Democratic primary, informed the state last Friday that he would decline the nomination, according to elections director Will Senning. Neither the candidate nor the Secretary of State's Office announced the move at the time, though it hardly comes as a surprise.

A longtime independent, Sanders has sought the Democratic nomination since he first ran for the Senate in 2006, in order to prevent another candidate from taking the ballot line. Each time he has declined the nomination upon winning it. His staff made clear from the start of this year's campaign that this time would be no different.

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2018/08/21/bernie-sanders-declines-democratic-senatorial-nomination

====================================

Bernie Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination in Vermont — but he won’t accept it if he wins.

The famously independent senator, who briefly joined the Democratic Party to run in the 2016 New Hampshire presidential primary only to un-enroll later, officially announced Monday that he would seek a third term in the Senate this fall. He also said that he’ll pull the same maneuver that he did in his 2006 and 2012 Senate races: Running as a Democrat, declining the nomination when he wins and then running as an independent.

The move makes it virtually impossible for another Democrat to seek the party’s nod. And it allows Sanders to loom large in the party primary in August, but still preserve his independence.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/bernie-sanders-democrat-independent-vermont-601844

[SocialDemocrat61]

40. It should be noted that last year

Sanders never wavered on his support for President Biden. Can every Democratic Senators make that claim?

[Comrade Citizen]

45. Democratic Party is the best for me

As a supporter of worker and producer owned cooperatives, democratic workplaces, mutual aid societies, and cooperative housing, I believe the Democratic Party and its policies are the best.
An example was the Biden administration's government website advocating the benefits of cooperatives.

[Initech]

48. Yeah... that's gonna help win elections.

Sure, let the GOP have absolute, unchecked power. What could go wrong?

[Passages]

49. I can't imagine why he would suggest that.

Slotkin said she can’t “chain [herself] to the White House and become an activist full time,” because she has to focus on addressing issues like federal cuts.

“All of those things require me to be more than just an AOC. I can’t do what she does because we live in a purple state, and I’m a pragmatist,” she said.

In the coming days, Ocasio-Cortez is joining Sanders, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, on his “Fighting Oligarchy” tour.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/19/politics/slotkin-democrats-action-activist-aoc/index.html

Slotkin votes on Trump's top officials. I don't think anyone will confuse her voting with activism.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mfwEkedsG3j1q7v4S2AEDADukjxNcag84AY_lRhFVww/edit?pli=1&gid=0#gid=0

[Littlered]

52. Bernie has never been one of us

And never will be one of us. He is in it for his own self grandiose ideas.

[mcar]

53. Be quiet Bernie

You are not helping.

[SSJVegeta]

100. Did you hear what he said? The headline is incorrect:

What he actually said:“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party,” he said. “If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[mcar]

105. Who did Joe Biden help with everything he did for this country?

Bernie needs to take a damn seat.

[lapucelle]

121. He also said this in his on the record interview with the New York Times.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[SSJVegeta]

139. .

[mikewv]

65. Thank You! nm

nm

[lapucelle]

101. The Times interviewed him. What he said is on the record.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[SSJVegeta]

142. .

[OutNow]

59. We've been having this discussion since Eugene McCarthy

Should leftists work inside or outside the Democratic Party? Back and forth. Back and forth. Some groups, like the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) have a "let's do both" strategy. Folks like me, a relic from the 1960s, support Democrats when we can. Here in Oregon we are lucky to have Senator Merkley, the first Senator to endorse Bernie in 2016. He has my total support. But Chuck, the sell out, Schumer? He should step down from his leadership role right now. We need a fighter.

[Hekate]

146. I worked on the Gene McCarthy campaign all thru 1968. And Bernie, sir, is no Gene McCarthy.

[stoned]

60. AOC appears to be "touring" with him

is she going to suffer rep damage as a result?

[oldsoldierfadingfast]

66. The Left vs. the Right...

Not with Bernie on this one and was not when HRC ran.

Half of the left will vote Dem.
Half of the left will vote Ind.
All the right will vote Repub.

Do the math.
We the people lose again.

[vanessa_ca]

67. This place needs a way to unrec demonstrably false articles -eom

[SSJVegeta]

72. There should also probably be a specific thing for "smearing (not just bashing) Democratic public figures"

[SocialDemocrat61]

77. There should be an alert

For false information

[Hekate]

148. Use the Alert system. It's not perfect, but it works well enough.

[intheflow]

192. DU used to have an unrec button.

I loved it for just this purpose! But - alas! People weaponized it so they took it away.

[SSJVegeta]

70. He didnt say that.

What he actually said:
"If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[elocs]

69. Sanders--the guy who ran against Hillary in '16 before dropping out, endorsing her, and

damning her with faint praise. And according to an NPR story, 10-12% of the BoBs (Bernie or Bust) actually voted for Trump to teach the Democratic Party a lesson for not nominating him.
I've been a Democrat and voted for exclusively Democratic candidates for over 50 years now and have no use at all for Sanders. I can live with that.

[SSJVegeta]

73. For what its worth, the headline is false

What he actually said:

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[Passages]

74. It is a misrepresentation.

Why do that??

[Hassin Bin Sober]

78. Because it riles up the bingo brigade.

[SocialDemocrat61]

86. The headline is from Political Wire

What’s their agenda?

[SSJVegeta]

90. To get democrats against Bernie probably.

Or at least give fodder to anti Bernie Dems.

[Celerity]

112. Clicks. Taegan Goddard (Political Wire) is known for selectively framing, and is now far worse since he went paywall.

He is a pot-stirrer for pay.

or as he puts it:



Plus the OP left out the 2nd paragraph (there are only 2 paragraphs in the whole Goodard clickbait piece) which changes the framing:

Said Sanders: “If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[lapucelle]

123. What Sanders also said...

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[Passages]

188. Thank you for that, I appreciate it.

[Emile]

190. +1 It's a misleading centrist hit piece.

[SnoopDog]

81. No Democrat supporting Sanders ever would vote for trump...

Sanders supporters are not petty or vindictive.

A lot of Republicans voted for Bernie - they are the ones that changed to trump...

[elocs]

154. From 2017: Here's How Many Bernie Sanders Supporters Ultimately Voted For Trump

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds

"Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election. That is according to the data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study — a massive election survey of around 50,000 people. (For perspective, a run-of-the-mill survey measuring Trump's job approval right now has a sample of 800 to 1,500.)

Political science professor Brian Schaffner of University of Massachusetts, Amherst tweeted the data on Wednesday.

Schaffner's numbers show that after a bitter Democratic primary, more than 1 in 10 of those who voted in the primaries for the very progressive Sanders ended up voting for the Republican in the general election, rather than for the Democratic candidate, Hillary Clinton."

[SnoopDog]

207. Note that there are many types of Democrats...

Take Manchin and Sinema for example. They were registered Democrats and they stabbed the entire country in the back.

So, Sanders had nothing to do with Clinton losing...

[Mariana]

264. Many people who voted for Sanders in the primary weren't Democrats.

Even so, the overwhelming majority of Sanders supporters went on to vote for Hillary in the general - 88% of them. It's wild how some people try to make that out to be some kind of a strike against Bernie..

[H2O Man]

75. This is not true.

What he said: “If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[Hekate]

149. Like Biden did every day of his administration, and gets no credit for it from Bernie

[H2O Man]

262. Joe and Bernie

have been good friends for decades. Both respect that the other one thinks differently on some important issues. Both agree on most important issues, though. Bernie campaigned for Joe in 2020, and provided Biden with votes needed for a clear victory among young and independent voters.

I first met Bernie in the early 80's, when he had first become mayor. He is the same now as he was then. Same values, and he came off as grumpy even back then. People like him for what he says and stands for. People who do not trust politicians trust him. So there would be no reason to think he'd change between 2021 and today.

I also first learned about Joe Biden around that same time. He is the same now as he was then. He has values that millions of Americans came to love. And, at least in public, he has always been good natured, polite, and respectful. The closest he ever strayed from that was in the 2020 debate, because President Biden knew the felon was a sociopath. Hence, when he told the convicted sex offender/ felon to shut up, a lot of us loved him more.

I think it is possible -- perhaps beneficial -- to respect both men. I understand that some of my friends only like one of them, or don't appreciate either. And that's okay with me. We all have an equal right to our opinions in the Democratic Party. That's a strength.

[JustAnotherGen]

80. Oh my God!

We need one cohesive opposition Tribe right now. Not this shit..

It's us vs them - no nuance.

[Passages]

82. What he actually said:

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[lapucelle]

162. What he actually also said.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

Wouldn't those "independents run[ning] outside of the Democratic Party" be running against Democrats?

[Oopsie Daisy]

206. Indeed! Those independents running "outside of the Democratic Party" WOULD BE running against Democrats!!

Wouldn't those "independents run[ning] outside of the Democratic Party" be running against Democrats?

Indeed! Those independents running "outside of the Democratic Party" WOULD BE running against Democrats!! That's absolutely true! This website is FOR Democrats, and if my memory serves me correctly, there's a prohibition against promoting third-party spoiler candidates.

Hang on... let me check. Yes! I found it... here it is:

Do not post support for Republicans or independent/third-party "spoiler" candidates. Do not state that you are not going to vote, or that you will write-in a candidate that is not on the ballot, or that you intend to vote for any candidate other than the official Democratic nominee in any general election where a Democrat is on the ballot. Do not post anything that smears Democrats generally, or that is intended to dissuade people from supporting the Democratic Party or its candidates. Don't argue there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats.

[JustAnotherGen]

171. But they are still talking about

These magical Free and Fair Elections.

They need to be out there telling the White Working Class that voted for Trump or didn't vote at all that this is a problem from hell, this regime is doing the Devil's arithmetic, and that they and they alone have the power to topple it.

If they want the party leadership - They need to put themselves in the physical line of fire of the regime.

John Lewis did it. So can they. They need to lead the opposition if they want a seat at the table.

[Passages]

187. When you look at the demographics, Trump did better with minorities than in 2016.

We must change that, and quickly.

One aspect I believe is an important distinction is that Trump is not a standard Republican, he never was. He saw the opportunity within that party because under GW Bush, abandoned workers who were ripe for a demagogue.

That same scoundrel is infiltrating our demographics within our party, and we must bring attention to working-class issues, among others to bring them back. We must get back people who stayed home, which was a horrific wake-up call, we must talk to them too.
One would have hoped they would not retreat due to Trump, but it did not work out that way. It is the job of politicians to inspire people to vote, and to believe in them that life will get better. It is 2025, and the federal minimum wage is still 7.25, that is not solely a Republican problem.

I agree, Trump and his minions and billionaires are evil, every day is like a new apocalypse...the urgency could not be greater.

[BunkieBandit]

87. What if half of the "Independents" vote republican?

They would never lose an election. Bad idea.

[thought crime]

89. Be wary of attacks on Bernie right now

We need all liberal, progressive, left leaders to get out there and speak with a clear voice as Bernie has been doing. Bernie is one of the few to gain traction and I’d be very wary of criticism of Sanders coming from “left of center”. Games are being played to divide us further. “Let working-class leadership come into the party.” Sounds like damn good advice.

[SSJVegeta]

95. These kinds of fake headlines likely have an ulterior motive

Or maybe not too ulterior

[LexVegas]

91. Bernie has been dividing Dems since 2016. nt

[SSJVegeta]

99. He didnt say what it says he did

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2025, 01:14 PM - Edit history (1)

He said:

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party,” he said. “If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

On edit: Yes he did.

[Oopsie Daisy]

208. He's promoting third-party candidates who run AGAINST Democrats.

He's promoting third-party candidates who run AGAINST Democrats. It's quite clear what he's saying and what it means. It's really rather absurd to try and spin it any other way or pretend that he means something different than what he said.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[SSJVegeta]

210. Indeed he said what i said he didnt say he said

[Meowmee]

96. Here we go again

It seemed he finally got it but no, trying to f up another election, if we even ever have another real one. He is quite happy to get funding etc.from D when he needs it though 😹

[Dem4life1970]

104. "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately"

Attributed to Benjamin Franklin, but apropos to our time.

[SocialDemocrat61]

107. A house divided against itself

cannot stand - Abraham Lincoln

[Passages]

110. What he said:

“If there’s any hope for the Democratic Party, it is that they’re going to have to reach out — open the doors and let working-class people in, let working-class leadership come into the party. If not, people will be running as independents, I think, all over this country.”

[ImNotGod]

111. Bernie did not say that!!! He said leave the party

when the pizza runs out. The NYT' never gets it quite right

[lapucelle]

118. The Times interviewed him Here's the quote.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[yorkster]

135. Thank you for having the patience to

submit this several times. The statement is pretty damn clear.

[SSJVegeta]

140. .

[sheshe2]

151. I keep rec'ing this.

[LS0999]

120. He should be trying to get progressives to take over the Democratic Party

We live in a two-party system (at least for now) whether people like it or not. Independents might work out at the local and state level but not at the national level on a large scale.

[Trust_Reality]

261. I want to be a Social Democrat, as in Northern Europe.

This would be a good time to change the nature of the "Democratic Party".

But I would bet big money (which I don't have) that will not happen. Too much influence from the corporate capitalist class.

Bernie speaks for the people, not a party or a gang of donors.

Just Sayin'.

[Hekate]

125. Every time I start to like Bernie, he goes and craps all over MY party

This is not helping. At all.

[pat_k]

138. Can we PLEASE point the guns of our rage in the right f-ing direction?

I really wish Bernie would steer clear of trying to kick off a battle of the factions.

Authoritarians win when the opposition factionalizes.

We don't have to like all our allies in the fight against 47's authoritarian take over, but let's stop pointing the guns of our rage at them. We need to WORK Together.

And we need MORE not fewer allies. We may be bringing people into the prodemocracy battle who hold notions we don't like at all. Let them be wrong on shit that isn't relevant to this fight. Maybe they'll come around, maybe not. But let's not shove them out of the fight for the preservation of the American values that have driven every decent thing we have ever accomplished as a nation.

Lift up the leaders you believe are doing the right thing. Lobby others to do the things you think are right, but if they do not, recognize that they are still our allies in this fight.


Please, please, find ways to focus your energy on the battle against 47 and every person loyal to him. Express disappointment when our allies let us down, but for goodness sake, don't LIVE and waste your energy on self-righteous anger at them. Extend a little grace.

[fishwax]

147. Based on the content in the link, that is not a remotely accurate reflection of what Sanders said

[questionseverything]

152. It's terrifying how many people don't read past the clickbait headline

[lapucelle]

160. What's terrifying is the number of people who don't click on the link in the Political Wire blurb

and go to the primary source (a New York Times interview) to read what he actually said.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

Wouldn't running "as independents outside of the Democratic Party" mean running against Democrats?

[Mike Nelson]

159. I have to respectfully...

... disagree with Bernie on this suggestion. I saw him and AOC in some clips from their recent rally. They belong in the Democratic Party. Yes, they don't agree with every other Democrat on how to achieve common goals... but that's normal. AOC has it right. I thought, when he switched to become a Democrat in the Presidential race, Bernie would remain a registered Democrat. I still think he should. I'm told it's a Vermont thing, but never really understood the labeling. Become a Democrat and urge more progressives to do the same, Bernie!

[uponit7771]

165. Sanders didn't say what OP claims!!!

[uponit7771]

164. ****SANDERS DIDN'T SAY THAT !!!**** Decisive thread

[Oopsie Daisy]

209. He's promoting the notion of third-party candidates to run AGAINST Democrats.

It's quite clear what he's saying and what it means. It's really rather absurd to try and spin it any other way or pretend that he means something different than what he said.

“One of the aspects of this tour is to try to rally people to get engaged in the political process and run as independents outside of the Democratic Party,” Mr. Sanders said in the interview on Wednesday.

www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html

[uponit7771]

213. Need video, nothing on this but a NYT quote ... that's some really bad shit right there.

[Oopsie Daisy]

215. It was probably a face-to-face or telephone interview and not on video.

The Nile is a river in Egypt. And I'm sure if there was anything untoward or fraudulent or deceptively misleading about any quotes "taken out of context" then BS and his folks would be all over this and setting the record straight.

I'm confident that his fans and supporters are busy scouring the internet and the BS website for any comments or clarification, and if there was anything out there, it would be immediately posted, reported and linked-to here.

But, so far... crickets (except for a chorus of folks shouting "fake news" or the equivalent... preferring to shoot-the-messenger, rather than take an objective look at everything that's been said before and how this fits a pattern of anti-Democratic party rhetoric.)

[demmiblue]

173. This post/thread... same as it ever was.

The sheer amount of people who react to headlines alone is mind-boggling. I have scads of posts bookmarked that were voted to the front page that were completely false (like the celebrities wearing fake political t-shirts). The gullibility is embarrassing.

[Nanjeanne]

182. There is always a handful of ppl who will react if Sanders is in the story. The rally with AOC last night

was epic. Watched it live. What he’s doing is terrific and it’s a waste of time to respond to the same objections to him. The Dem party will be saved by politicians brave and bold and Sanders is one among a group determined. Or it will fail by rehashing the same old same old.

[Oopsie Daisy]

270. Wait! LMFTFY: There are always people who will step up to defend the Democratic party, its members and its leadership *

Wait! LMFTFY: There are always people who will step up to defend the Democratic party, its members and its leadership whenever it is being smeared and denigrated.

It makes no difference WHO attack the party. It's important to recognize that there will always be individuals who stand ready to support and uphold the Democratic party, its members, and its leadership in the face of lies and negative portrayals. Regardless of the source of these challenges, loyal Democrats are committed to defending our values against unfounded allegations of corruption, weakness, collusion, and more.

These steadfast supporters consistently emphasize that the Democratic party thrives not through smears and external attacks but through internal growth and constructive change. By focusing on GROWING the party (rather than suppressing the vote or by splitting the vote) we will be able to defeat the GOP. By focusing on our strengths and addressing issues from within, we can fortify the party.

It's a mistake for anyone to claim or insinuate that "both parties are the same" or that "Democrats are corrupt" since this only suppresses the voter support and turnout for the Democrats, which only benefits the GOP. It's easy to be on the outside and to take a big steaming dump on the party with a litany of unfounded accusations and insinuations. Conversely, it's much harder to get one's hands dirty and make a commitment to doing the hard work within the party.

[betsuni]

272. Thank you. This isn't complicated. Don't attack, lie, insult, threaten the party for no reason and there's no problem.

Not about policy, it's about unfounded attacks that do great damage to progress by demonizing Democrats. Are people angry at Elizabeth Warren? She has lots of progressive plans. No, she doesn't lie about Democrats being corrupt or complicit and the same as Republicans, she IS a Democrat. Really, all anyone has to do is listen and lay off the conspiracy theories and fantasies.

[Omnipresent]

176. Trump wants to dismantle the Federal Government...

While It sounds like Bernie wants to dismantle the Democratic Party.

Bernie unknowingly, would effectively create an example of the right in “owning us”then.
Not a good move Bernie!

[mucholderthandirt]

186. What we really need is to push out the Vichy Dems and make the part what it should be:

Consolidated behind actual liberal and progressive ideals, and firm and steady as the Republicans are all for the MAGA. They stand together, no matter what. If they don't, they lose.

We should stop being appeasers and give up the "deliberate, considered" notion and start fighting for this country. Stop this "vote blue no matter who", when we need a fighter.

It's not that fucking hard.

We got lucky with Biden. Would have been luckier with Harris/Walz. I wish I could wake up from the nightmare we have now, but I know it's just reality.

[kansasobama]

189. Mistake Bernie

No. That is where he is going wrong. That is our problem.

[Ping Tung]

202. Can people still belong to political parties? Are they required to?

Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently.
Rosa Luxemburg

[RJ-MacReady]

203. Bernie isn't a Democrat

Remember that. He only serves to obstruct the party.

[bluestarone]

205. I'm aDemocrat, . I also like Bernie. I know Bernie would NEVER vote for TSF. NEVER!

I would like to see Bernie jump on his OWN independents that DID vote for TSF. THEY are the problem we have. Bernie has some fire in him, that i love. At first i thought we were wrong to help pass the bill to keep Gov. open. I did no realize what that would entail. Bernie was WRONG about that, BUT i still believe it's not Bernies fault that some of his IDIOT independents voted the way they voted. Like i said i'm a Democrat. Remember though some DEMOCRATS vote wrong as well. We just to quit fighting ourselves, because TSF traitors love seeing that. If Bernie and Democrats come together in 26 we GOT THIS!

[the_liberal_grandpa]

216. As usual Bernie is correct

If you feel you can't go against the Schumers of the party then run as an independent so that the leadership does not fuck with you like they did Bernie in 2016.

Bernie is one of the very few politicians that are trying to stop the maga takeover.

[Duncan Grant]

222. Yet he and AOC turn out 34,000 in Denver today. Get outta here with this crap.

Ignore the progressives if you must, but I don’t recommend it.

[Emile]

224. I'm beginning to think this was a misleading centrist hit piece

to take the heat off Chuck Schumer for voting lockstep with the Republican majority.

[dem4decades]

226. Great idea, run an Independent, and a Democrat against a MAGA, what could go wrong?

[Emile]

227. How many people did Chuck Schumer draw at his town halls this week?

[dem4decades]

237. So we're going to run an Independent against him?

How about we run a Democrat against him in a primary and whoever wins, the party supports that candidate?

[Emile]

238. Great idea. Run a democrat against a guy that voted with the Republican majority.

Great suggestion.

[Scrivener7]

228. Oh, for fuck's sake.

[LiberalArkie]

230. The party just needs more like Schumer.

[Vinca]

232. Slicing and dicing is how we got in this mess to begin with.

"Ooooh, I don't agree with the Democratic candidate on everything, so I'm going to vote for the Green Party. That'll show 'em."

[LSparkle]

233. This is the NYT grasping at straws to slam Dems

Bernie isn’t pushing abandoning the Democratic Party per se, just pleading with it to return more fully to its FDR roots. He’s right that we need to focus on helping the working class and not courting the “boss” vote. TSF has the “entrepreneur” (I’m SICK of that word!!!!!) class locked up. We need to quit the “New Democrat” business-friendly Clinton era crap and run on the New Deal the way Biden tried to. There are more working people than greedy bosses — we need to appeal to them and stop kissing the billionaires’ asses.

[SalamanderSleeps]

234. Party Up!

When somebody comes to save you, don't be an asshole.

I'm with Bernie and AOC.

[travelingthrulife]

243. Whenever I start to really like him, he pulls this garbage.

[mike_c]

247. anyone-but-Bernie derangement syndrome

Sheesh.

[Progressive dog]

251. That makes no sense

Without the democratic wing of the Democratic party, there will be no real opposition to the fascists.
Using these horrors as a reason to throw our any part of the party that just lost, makes no sense.

[Joinfortmill]

252. Well, he's out there along with a couple others.

The rest of them, crickets. Just noting the obvious silence.

[bdamomma]

254. Crap

we don't need division now, at least we a have party, the other side is a fucking spineless cult sucking up the felon mob boss.

[betsuni]

256. Bernie surrogate Michael Moore repeats the message: Democrats aren't the cavalry, independents are.

"Bernie is putting forth the idea that Democrats have let us down in such a profound way. We need people running for office as independents. ... Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party. Neither am I."

[Oopsie Daisy]

273. Hey, Michael Moore...

[TheFarseer]

269. The only thing I will say

I PROMISE you, a Democrat will never win a statewide election in Nebraska. A left leaning independent has a chance.

[Emile]

271. Despite what others are saying in this thread, this is Bernie's message.

His only interest is to get progressives elected in red states.

[Nanjeanne]

274. I've watched 5 of the events so far that Bernie, AOC, and their guests have done. I've watched most from the

start, way before the headliners appeared I’ve heard from Dem organizers, Dem state reps, Dem voters, Dem union people, Dem teachers and more. I’ve seen state DNC party reps in attendance. I’ve been inspired by all of them.

I’ve not heard one speaker tell anyone to run as an Idependent against a Democrat. What I’ve heard is that people should support Dems who are fighters and not Dems who vote with Republicans. I’ve heard speakers say - I don’t care how you voted in the past or what your label has been - if you believe in healthcare as a human right, education as a human right, fighting for someone you don’t know, compassion and kindness, then you belong here in this party. The goal of all these rallies is expanding the voting base of the Democratic platform.

But it certainly is easier to knee jerk reaction to a click bait headline and a never ending bias against Sanders. It’s pretty obvious when you see how few actually rec this OP vs how many responses there are here.