I hate to be the bearer of bad news but if you want to save your teeth...

[Self Esteem]

...the gnashing over criticism of Biden should probably pause because it's going to get exponentially worse as we get closer to 2028.

Every Democrat running for office is probably going to step on Biden - who is still extremely unpopular - and claim he should not have run for reelection and maybe even go as far as say he failed in some areas.

It's going to get ugly. Biden is the sacrificial lamb to the next Democratic president.

You're already seeing it with Pete - who said Biden running was 'maybe' a mistake, which is probably the first on record comments by an official within the Biden administration.

Even Beto is out there - taking it one step further than Pete (and he's probably not running for anything):



What Republicans did to Bush post-2008, Democrats are likely to do to Biden.

And we gotta prepare because it's going to suck and it's going to be mean and it's going to cause a lot of gnashing of teeth.

[markodochartaigh]

1. Democratic politicians need to

immediately learn how to install an Overton Window frame. Refuse to take the bait when asked about irrelevant things in the past, especially when those things are divisive.

[Self Esteem]

2. They're not going to do it. They're going to be asked and they're going to toss Biden under the bus.

Especially with this latest news.

[pinkstarburst]

57. They can't. It was a mistake. And that debate was damaging because

when Biden performed so poorly after being absent from the public eye for such a long time, it gave the perception that the crap republicans had been posting online about senile Joe that democrats had long been defending as hogwash was absolutely true.

Everyone was expecting Joe to wipe the floor with Trump. Instead, Trump wiped the floor with Biden. Even though Trump is a horrible human being who probably didn't manage to tell the truth on one single answer. He sounded strong, and rational, and calm and put together. Joe sounded... not good. And the fact that he sounded so scattered and unable to get himself together and unable to perform well only served to support what many people had been saying: that Joe's people were hiding him. That he couldn't do the job. That he shouldn't be running.

Did Biden do a great job as president in office? Absolutely, 100%. I also think he had a team of qualified people who may have been helping him fill in and cover and rough places where he was starting to slip.

I think our candidates going into 2028 are not going to be able to avoid this question. It isn't just Biden. Fitness to serve is being asked with regards to Trump, Fetterman, it was asked with Diane Feinstein. It is a fair question to ask. It's especially a fair question to ask when you are talking about the presidency, and when we are looking at Biden's presidency followed by Trump's, the two oldest presidents we've ever had, and two men who have had cognitive issues of varying degrees,, depending on what you believe, this is something voters care about. I think voters will be less willing to elect someone older than 70 going forward, but that's just me. I think medical history, such as Fetterman's may be more closely scrutinized, but that's just me.

[LookoutMtnWriter]

3. Beto O'Rourke

I've been over him for a while.

[marble falls]

4. Sometimes Beto overstates an opinion. Still vote for him again, whatever office he wants. I'd ...

... like to see him run against Cruz again.

And even knowing Joe didn't immediately recognize George Clooney, I'd still have voted for Joe Biden's second term. I'd at least know that if all the negative whispers are true, that the worst of it would be Kamala Harris would have been President. Instead of JD Freaking Vance when Mango finally goes off scene for whatever reasons.

[brush]

5. Joe Biden didn't fail. He had a successful presidency that got many things done.

He would be hailed in history as a great statesman if he had stepped down graciouly after one term.

But whayya gonna do, human frailties caught up with him with that disastrous debate performance. I slame his schedulers for exhausting him with the Europe trip immediately followed by a California trip just before the debate. By then, it was too late to step down graciously for VP Harris to have enough time to make her case to the nation against the lying, convict insurrectionist.

[Self Esteem]

6. My guess is Beto is saying he failed at stopping Trump...

Which I guess technically he did since Trump won.

[brush]

7. TSF won, but we never should've lost to a mofo who tried to overthrow his own government...

and was/is a convicted criminal who only ran to stay out of jail.

[Self Esteem]

8. No disagreement...

The question is whether Democrats would have had a better chance if Biden didn't run in 2024.

[brush]

12. I think so. We had/have such a deep bench of great candidates...

one of which would've beaten the convict with a proper primary and then time to make his/her case to the nation against the 'effin' INSURRECTIONIST.

[elocs]

26. And those candidates should have been given the chance to run in the '24 primaries.

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these, 'It might have been!'"

[brush]

51. Agreed. A proper primary and long campaign, IMO we would've won.

The convict dodged several bullets...virtually and one literally and is now fucking up nation's future AGAIN.

[elocs]

25. "Who only ran to stay out of jail"---well, it worked, didn't it? n/t

[brush]

49. We all know that. Tell us something we don't know.

[Meadowoak]

31. Too many stayed home. They did that when Hillary ran,

They did it when Kamala ran, and they'll do it again next time we run a woman. Women are jealous of a successful women, and men are intimidated by them

[hamsterjill]

48. You have that absolutely correct!

As a strong, independent woman who has raised a strong, independent daughter - I have NEVER understood why women want to pull other women down. Men pull other men up. There's a difference.

It makes no sense, but it is definitely a real thing. Makes me sick. We should be better than that as this stage of the evolution.

[brush]

50. That's a sad analysis. Doesn't bode well for women candidate.

Can't say I agree with it.

[EdmondDantes_]

43. If that's the context, Biden has said the same thing.

Granted I still think that's massively overstating Biden's level of responsibility in Trump winning in 2024. If Biden "failed" at that, so did everyone else who didn't want Trump elected. I don't think that should be the metric because there's so many variables outside of anyone's ability to control or even meaningfully influence, that it's an impossible bar to meet.

[karynnj]

53. However, there was no guarantee that stepping down earlier would have led to a better outcome

An interesting point was made in one oped (I think by Ezra Klein) that what made that stepping down less likely was the atypical relative success of the midterms. This meant that unlike the midterms in Clinton's or Obama's first terms, there was not the same call to reconsider what to do.

Now, I think Biden was as focused on bipartisanship as he could have been in the first two years - and the 50/50 Senate made it impossible for him to have been otherwise. What it might have done is to have created a situation where Biden felt that the better than expected results validated how he was seen as a leader.

In hindsight, imagine Biden would have used those results to claim that in addition to the improving economy, it showed they were going in the right direction, but a lot more needed to be done. Like, LBJ, he could have argued he would focus 100 percent of his attention to running the country and not seek election.

This might not have been the winner some looking back now consider it to be. Whether he gave his endorsement to Harris or not, I can only imagine the divisiveness if a male won the nomination. Where people claim primaries especially with big challenges make candidates stronger, consider the "PUMA" 'Clinton supporters who did not vote for Obama, the Bernie supporters who did not back Clinton and the fact that Gore first used the Willie Horton stuff against Dukakis. Harris was quickly the nominee.

Also consider what would have happened if Biden actually resigned maybe a half year after the primary. I actually think this would have hurt. The contrast between the successes of the first two years vs the far less successful second half of Biden's term would likely have also happened if Harris was then President dealing with the Republican House. Throw in the October 2023 Hamas attack and you would have a new President Harris struggling with so many things she did not cause or control.

[fujiyamasan]

23. His presidency was successful in terms of legislative accomplishments

That is true.

A lot of that credit also goes to Pelosi and Schumer, who corralled thin majorities to vote for Biden’s agenda. No easy feat.

Where he failed was in initially communicating those accomplishments to the public, and then not knowing his own limits. In situations like that it’s also best not to rely on people too close (like family and long term friends).

I think if he had an honest conversation with someone like Pelosi early on, who is a political master in the truest sense, he would not have run again. It may not have had to be her necessarily but someone with a similar temperament, who can be critical when needed . I hate to say it, but I think he was surrounded by too many “yes” men and women.

[Prairie Gates]

9. Gleeful

Gross

[Johonny]

10. Just to be clear Beto loses a lot

He is famous for losing a lot of campaigns. Taking election advice from him might not be wise if, say, you want to win.

[iemanja]

39. He has a great deal to say about local

Texas politics and how Dems should compete there, and not just at the highest levels. Ignoring local races is why Democrats have been shut out of power around the country.

Before declaring Beto has nothing useful to say, you might want to listen to the podcast rather than limiting your knowledge to a meme.

[BeyondGeography]

11. They're calling it Sleepygate

They’re having the time of their lives with this. Jake Tapper did wingnut media a solid. They’ll repay him with death threats the next time he summons up the courage to ask a halfway-challenging question of Trump or one of his lackeys.

What a country.

[mzmolly]

13. Biden is not running. Let's move on.

[usonian]

14. People who dump on Joe are looking backward. GUARANTEED LOSE, LOSE, LOSE.

PEOPLE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD.

I am attaching a message I got from Bernie.
NO LOOKING BACK.

And here’s what I think of people who dump on Joe Biden. In no uncertain terms.
My advice to democrats, independents, republicans and extraterrestrials: FUCKING LAY OFF JOE BIDEN.

YOU WOULD GET BANNED FROM D.U. FOR REPEATING SHIT RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS.
Details:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20317372

DO I MEAN IT?
Here’s my Apple Watch face. Anyone who derides this sincerest fighter for the rights and welfare of everyone can eat maga muffins. 💩




And if you want the template: here it is.



Now, THIS is looking forward:
From Bernie.

People attending rallies in huge numbers are saying
YES to raising the minimum wage,
YES to expanding Social Security,
YES to guaranteeing health care as a human right,
YES to cutting the cost of prescription drugs,
YES to paid family and medical leave,
YES to equal pay for equal work,
YES to more affordable housing,
YES to making childcare and higher education affordable to all,
YES to taking on the existential threat of climate change.

And most importantly they are saying
YES to a government and an economy that works for all of us and not just the billionaire class and the Oligarchs.

Democrats running down Democrats?
GO TO HELL., LOSERS.
And don’t look backward.

And take your favorite wristwatch to hell with you.

[elocs]

28. Apparently there are a lot of people who don't care what you think, or me either for that matter.

This is an election post- mortem and is by its nature a wallowing in hindsight, but it is in no way unusual.

[Hekate]

56. Kick this post

[Maru Kitteh]

15. I believe you are correct in that the pain ahead feels inevitable.

[JT45242]

16. When Beto actually wins a statewide election, I'll worry what he thinks

This guy couldn't beat the mist hated man in the Senate.

[iemanja]

40. Who has?

Beto came the closest.

[elocs]

29. Deep. n/t

[hamsterjill]

18. And people will be pissed if this happens.

I'm tired of the Joe bashing. I thought he was great. I felt safe, the economy was stable and I didn't give a damn that he might stutter every so often. He's 82 and he got us out of COVID.

I don't think I'll be happy when/if I hear Dems throwing him under the bus, and I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment.

[3catwoman3]

44. You are not alone. All this Biden bashing makes me sick.

No one worked harder for this country than Joe Biden, and our party threw him away like a dirty Kleenex. Shameful.

[iemanja]

19. I don't think so

Biden has nothing to do with the future. Looking to the past is a sure way for Democrats to be defeated.

[Montauk6]

20. Biden should tell America to "KISS MY ASS!!!"

Followed by, "You're welcome," with a big middle finger.

[Hassler]

21. If he tries real hard, Beto could be Brainworm Bobby 2.0

[iemanja]

22. BTW, Beto gave a very good interview on the Bullwark

He had a lot to say about how the Democrats can move forward, which I understand is an anathema to those committed to maintaining the same party that lost so badly in 2024,

If people are going to lose their shit over every comment about Biden, they'll be wasting their time and energy. And if they declare war on everyone who says Biden shouldn't have sought reelection, they will destroy the party's future prospects. Refusing to acknowledge any problems in the past and insisting the party stay exactly as it is precisely how we lose. People seem to think doing absolutely nothing will miraculously give us victory in 2026. That's a very dangerous stance.

More recently, people were furious that Hogg sought to challenge 12 (that's 12 out of many hundreds) incumbents in safe Democratic seats, and insisted those seats would be lost unless we retained our permanent House of Lords, with no democratic challenges whatsoever. That's the same thing people did when AOC challenged a sitting Democrat in a safe seat. We heard nothing about whining about how a Republicans would win in a solid blue area. Thank goodness she did, since she is one of a handful of voices speaking forcefully about Trump. We might elect more leaders like her if too many Democrats, and the DNC, weren't insistent on maintaining losing strategies.

[elocs]

24. Biden's average approval rating was 42.2%--the 2nd worse of post WWII presidents,

so yes, he was extremely unpopular even with a chunk of Democrats and Harris tied herself so closely to him that it's likely there were millions of Democrats who just refused to vote for her. It almost seems delusional that Biden was so convinced he could beat Trump just because he did it once. So potential Democratic candidates are just being honest about that whether there are some Democrats who are unhappy about that--it seems to be the truth.

[BurnDoubt]

30. It serves no purpose to drag Joe's entrails down main street. Is there a lesson there? Yes...

Don't air your dirty laundry in public.
Poor polling numbers are hardly "evidence" of anything anymore, because Lies outnumber Facts logarithmically, and dodgy polling practices bring a huge bounty, and even the most trusted polls were way off the mark most of the time.

[iemanja]

38. You all complained about polls in the 2024

Election cycle and insisted they were rigged by Republicans, only those polls turned out to be accurate and their detractors were wrong. That should be a lesson, but instead you’ve decided to double down on complaining about what is in reality largely accurate polling.

All that’s happening here is people whining about news they find inconvenient, just as in the case of the 2024 polls. People seem to want Biden to be the first President in history to never have a book written about him, but there will be many as there have been with every President proceeding him. You don’t like the information provided or views expressed so you demand silence. Fortunately for America and the Democratic Party, you and others don’t get to stomp out free speech, whether in the form of books or interviews. So all you can do is continue to complain and make yourselves miserable.

[Skittles]

33. WTF

sexism and racism had more pull than ANY negativity towards Biden

I would ESPECIALLY detest being asked this by people pimping for a multi-felon rapist who tried to OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT

[iemanja]

41. Pod Save America is run by former Obama

Staffers.

[Skittles]

42. I said ESPECIALLY

I would not want to hear about it from ANYONE

BIDEN IS NOT THE PROBLEM RIGHT NOW and it's all just a DISTRACTION

[BurnDoubt]

27. If you sat out an election, sit down and shut up and quit trolling for the Shitheads. IT'S NOT HELPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's clear we didn't deserve Joe. He made a huge effort in the absence of a viable candidate, and he did a lot of good under difficult conditions, while he could have easily sat on his ass and watched the Demise of Democracy like you did. Instead, he toed the line and fought for your Country in the face of the mighty flack attack he awakened to every day for thankless Democrats and Republicans.
All you fair-weather Democrats need to keep it to yourselves. It's totally inappropriate to kick on him, and it depresses everyone, and is a BIG FAVOR to the Shitheads in the red ballcaps. NOTHING will be gained from this except the perception that we're no better than they are.
It is done and it is in the past. Get over it. Prep for the NEXT BATTLE. Let's get the platform for the next Election and start drilling it in. Give no quarter.
I had high hopes for Beto, but now it looks like he's angling to appease Maga Meatheads for????? NOT COOL!!!!!

[Skittles]

32. WHY is he even a topic of discussion?

ENOUGH ALREADY

[delisen]

34. Not interested in candidates who take the bait.

They will make a mess out of their campaigns.

[Skittles]

36. they should throw it back in their faces

ANYTHING WAS BETTER THAN A MUTLI-FELON RAPIST WHO TRIED TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT

[madville]

35. Thought this was about Flouride

I drink tap water regularly

[betsuni]

37. "Nobody fucks with a Biden."

He's writing a book. Still waiting for Hillary's "Fuck All Y'all, a memoir" and now "Fuck All Y'all, a memoir" by Joe Biden and "Fuck All Y'all, a memoir" by Kamala Harris.

Republicans are a extremist right-wing disaster and the problem. The Democratic Party is a normal political party. Blaming Democrats, obsessing about imaginary conspiracies, lying about history and policies; running against Biden, the Democratic Party, a fictitious diabolical Democratic Establishment, slandering Democrats, the childish insults -- anyone and their supporters doing that aren't interested in progress and deserve a big Fuck All Y'all.

[JCMach1]

45. Teeth are done anyway without fluoride

[BannonsLiver]

46. I doubt it

The main (and only) reason it’s being talked about now is because there’s a dumb book out everyone on this forum is losing their shit over.

[DFW]

47. Whatever problems my teeth might have, they won't be ground down by Biden Bashing.

I think he did an amazing job in his 3 ½ years. That's a very short time to accomplish both the damage control needed to right so many Trump wrongs, but put through some initiatives that were of his own administration's making.

Sure, it's easy to bash him. I sure as hell wouldn't dare to try to list how I would have done the job better, because I would have lost in the woods for his whole term in office.

[Bluetus]

52. Biden isn't the problem. He was/is a good man that the people kept electing

Last edited Fri May 16, 2025, 07:02 PM - Edit history (2)

The problem is that voters didn't believe Dems had any better leaders. You can't blame Biden for that. He gave many years of service to the country, with wisdom, patience, kindness, and mental stability.

He should not have been the candidate in 2020 or 2024, but evidently, he was the best we had. Don't blame Biden.

Americans have been extremely unhappy at least since 2005. Look at the Gallup poll of "right way, wrong way". Prior to 2025, it swung like a pendulum from 30% right way to 70% right way. And it wasn't always the same party with high "right way" marks.

But since 2025, it has never been anywhere near 50% right way, and has generally remained about 60-70% wrong way including when Obama and Biden were in the White House. Americans are angry as hell. They can't always say why, but they know this country is really fucked up. They don't know how or why, but they know it ain't right.

They absolutely hate the party of stern letters and "I told you so". They don't want compromises. They want fighters. And more than anything, they want a leader who will put forward a real plan of bold action.. I love Harris -- she was always my first choice. But she was in a box. With her short runway, she really didn't have time to sell a bold agenda, And if she tried, she would have faced the doubly whammy of undercutting Biden and being the angry black woman.

It was doomed.. Biden absolutely would have been destroyed. There was no viable fallback scenario -- Harris had to be the candidate. But she had no chance to define herself as a transformational figure. So she ran a milquetoast campaign -- executed to perfection -- absolutely not one blunder at any step of the way. But no ideas.

That's just the way it is. Here we are and we have no bold ideas. Trump has bold ideas. Tariffs will make us all rich, and we won't have to share the riches with the "illegals" because we're deporting all of them. That may be insane, but it is a bold plan, and Dems put absolutely no ideas up against that. Americans ALWAYS support the person with a bold plan and fire in the belly (even a crazy man with a crazy plan) when the alternative is no plan.

Biden had no bold ideas, but neither have any Dem candidates for 50 years. This is what the Carvilles of the world have given us for 50 years. When can we have a bold leader for our side?

[CTyankee]

54. Thank you for your post, especially the part about Kamala! You are exactly right about what happened to her!

There is just too much "shudda, cudda, woudda" around here. It's a waste of time and energy. I trust that we will come up with the right way to get where we need to go. We are the hope of the world right now. Trump has brought a disaster even I could not have predicted (and I have hated him for as long as he's been in my consciousness).

I have 5 grandchildren right now either raised or being raised in strongly Dem households. 3 are female, one is male and one is transitioning female. I have to have faith in their ability to take over for me and my generation when I am gone.

[mvd]

55. IMO the best President of my lifetime

I’m 49. Should he have agreed to just one term earlier? Maybe. But the Party threw him under the bus and didn’t defend him enough. Maybe if they backed him more, things would be different. Shameful how he gets treated all around.

[madinmaryland]

58. We had fluoride in our water when I was growing up and my teeth are fine...

Fuck RFK, Jr.

[Bluetus]

60. And conversely, my partner grew up on a farm with well water (no flouride)

and her teeth are rotten -- we're spending a bunch on dental bills.

These are just anecdotes, but the science says the same thing.

This is just sad. I'm pretty old now, but I grew up as computers were emerging. My whole career was defined by scientific advances. America used to be proud of being able to put people on the moon, invent the semiconductor, cell phones, wondrous medical devices and therapies, and all sorts of other technologies. This was all based on science. Nobody ever questioned any of that because the scientific method, itself, tested its own theories and revealed the best knowledge available.

And even as recently as 1987, the US enthusiastically joined the Montreal Protocol to solve the ozone hole crisis, and it was a real looming disaster that had already increased skin cancer frequency in the Southern hemisphere. There was spirited debate among scientists, but there really wasn't any appreciable level of meddling by the politicians, and we moved right ahead with solutions -- very expensive solutions, having to phase out Freon for example. But we were able to do it. And there really were not many idiots on the sidelines putting out pseudo-science crap.

And then it ended. That was the last time science was able to lead the way. That was almost 40 years ago. 40 years where idiots from Limbaugh to Kennedy now are able to shout down the scientists that actually know the answers.

[Aristus]

59. I was going to say don't live in Florida or Texas.

But yours is good, too.