Israel is a rogue state

[malaise]

Stop this madness world

[WSHazel]

1. It is highly likely they used US intelligence to execute that attack

Every time we use our intelligence in a military operation, we show our hand about our methods. Netanyahu's attempt to wipe out Iran's senior leadership missed Khameini, so it is a failure. The foreign policy value of taking out a few generals of a floundering petro-state thousands of miles away may be very useful to Saudi Arabia, but has limited if any value to the U.S.

In other words, we gave up something incredibly valuable, broadcasting our intelligence capabilities and methods to the rest of the world intelligence community, in return for nothing.

[Mountainguy]

3. Israeli intelligence

Is well within its capabilities to launch this attack.

[WSHazel]

19. Is this the same Israeli intelligence

that allowed a bunch of meth heads on paragliders to jump a fence on October 7 after some of the sloppiest operational security in the history of surprise attacks and still kill over 1,000 Israelis? Is this the Israeli intelligence you think is so brilliant?

[Mountainguy]

23. And the same US intelligence that

Let 19 bozos kill 4k people.

Please point to the intelligence community that has prevent 100% of attacks.

[WSHazel]

34. Whatabout rebuttal

I thought that was purely a Republican tactic. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[Mountainguy]

36. Lol

Try harder

[brush]

43. Heehee. I think he got you with the meth heads on kites rejoinder.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

5. You could use Google Maps to execute this attack. It's not exactly difficult to locate Iran's strategic areas. n/t

[MarineCombatEngineer]

7. And another one who has no idea of what they're talking about.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

8. I was just saying it's simple for modern countries, and it's certainly no rocket science. n/t

[MarineCombatEngineer]

9. I didn't mean you,

I meant the poster you replied to.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

10. My bad brother, it's early and the coffee hasn't kicked in yet. XD

As an unrelated aside, I noticed the truck in your sig. Do you by any chance play the game "American Truck Simulator"?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

12. No, never even heard of that.

I very rarely play video games on my computer, I really have zero desire for video games, if that's what it is.
Besides, I don't really need to play that, I do the real thing.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

13. Lol! No worries. I've been a computer junkie since MacOS so unfortunately I was bred on 'em.

Games are my TV or radio equivalent.

I only ask because it's a hell of a game and I play constantly. If I wasn't crippled I'd have made a career out of driving, and you've got my envy and respect. Cheers, and again, see you in the next thread. XD

[WSHazel]

16. Did the Iranian theocracy collapse this morning?

Can you send me a link of where that happened? Because otherwise, what was the point of this attack? So we killed some random generals in a floundering petro dictatorship thousands of miles away. In doing so we exposed significant intelligence capabilities and tied America to a murderous semi-dictator in Israel who is openly advocating ethnic cleansing.

Please explain to me how this made our lives better.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

20. LOL.

Israel just neutered Iran and showed them to be a paper tiger compared to Israel, they managed to knock off some very important figures in the regime.

And was Israel actually targeting Khamani?

I stand by my statement.

[ForgedCrank]

39. I can't

get over the level of intel and planning required, let alone the logistics. It blows my mind.
I'm not one to cheer for war and destruction, but I don't think anyone with more than a couple of brain cells could fail to realize what Iran has in mind for Israel (and the US if they can pull it off).
The unfortunate reality is that Israel can completely destroy that cesspool of evil, and it will always sprout up and grow back. The threat will be perpetual as long as that ideology survives. I just hope Iran is smart enough to not attack any US assets. I really don't want us getting dragged into this crap

[Arazi]

46. It really is incredible. Israel outplayed Iran here with years of planning

Every story coming out is more incredible than the last…

It really was now or lose the moment.

Iran’s support triad that they’d built for decades is utterly destroyed. Traitor in office to look the other way (and provide covert support). A gleeful KSA benignly scolding (but inwardly thrilled)…

Crazy

[ForgedCrank]

51. You are right,

there are so many striking points, and it just keeps getting more incredible as we hear more. The entire region pretty much gave the green light for this op. Many even went so far as to crush a meager retaliatory Iranian drone strike against Israel. How so many of them knew about this and yet it remained secret for so long is just incredible. One thig is very clear though, Iran has no true friends, and Israel doesn't bluff

[Arazi]

57. Yup. Even Jordan is on Team Israel

I hope Egypt survives this. They’re so fucking precarious already - they had to have been a silent partner and their people know it. Do they hate Iran or Israel more?

[ForgedCrank]

62. If I had

to take a guess, I would say that Egypt doesn't like either one much. But if they have to pick a side, the choice is pretty obvious. Only those with partisan blinders on would chastise Israel for doing this.

[Arazi]

63. Agreed. I'm more concerned with the Egyptian "street" erupting

We’ll see if they can keep the shit under control

[brush]

44. There's always someone next in line in any hierachy. And Israel is just the US's attack dog in ME,has been for decades.

Safe guarding the oil region with US supplied weapons. And with warmonger Netanyahu, they've got a real lulu, even goes against US presidents.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

48. Of course there's always someone next in line,

but Israel has severely weakened the regime and, if current reports are accurate, has also greatly destroyed Iran's nuclear program along with killing it's top scientists.

Israel bought itself, and the world for that matter, time, we'll see how long of time has been bought.

[brush]

50. Time is right. But the idea that a coountry in that region, Israel, Iran, Arabia...

or any other country would carry out a nuclear attack with all those nations so closely packed and bordering each other is kinda fatfetched. Everyone in the region would suffer fallout.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

53. It may be far fetched to our western thinking,

but remember, we're dealing with a far different culture in the ME than the West, we tend to forget that.
Iran with a nuke would be a disaster, there is no doubt in my mind that if given the chance, Iran would launch a nuke and the aftermath be damned.

[brush]

58. Possible, but it's quite possible they're familiar with the concept of mutually assured destruction.

[Arazi]

60. Iran's mullahs are fanatics. Like Hamas, they don't care about fallout

If they can destroy their enemies, everyone caught in the fallout is going to “paradise”.

They. Do. Not. Care. About. Civilians.

Even other fanatic regimes like KSA knew they needed to put down Iran’s dangerous regime cause they crazier

[brush]

64. Sure, they want to die too, can't wait.

[Arazi]

66. You're looking at this thru western eyes

[brush]

70. Please. Thru human eyes. We all have survival instincts. Your bias towards Muslims is clouding your judgement by....

implying their inhumanity in not even having survival instincts. Not good.

[Arazi]

71. Sigh. Not bias at all. Iran is led by religious fanatics

That’s just a fact.

Their people vehemently do NOT want to die.

Don’t cast aspersions here on DU. Really shitty

[brush]

76. "Their people vehemently do NOT want to die." At least you got that part right.

[Arazi]

78. Oh ffs, just stop. Attacking DUers is shitty

Feel free to put me on ignore

[brush]

80. Not attacking DUers. Maybe exposing one to the inconsistencies of their statements.

[Arazi]

92. Nothing I said is inconsistent

Iran’s leadership are crazy fanatics who don’t care how many die.

The Iranian population is a different story and I’ve made that clear.

[brush]

93. Heehee. Those two sentences are a perfect example of inconsistent statements.

You have no insight into whether Iran's leaders have survival instincts. How do you know that?

That's just anti-Muslim talking points. Straight out of trump 1.0.

But in an earlier post you wrote: "Their people vehemently do NOT want to die."

Make up you mind. The leaders are Iranian too.

Then maybe we can talk about the real warmonger in the region, war criminal Netanyaku who keeps widening the war.

[malaise]

105. The same Western eyes that sit by and watch Israel murder and starve

the Palestinians and blow up schools and hospitals.
Spare me.

[EX500rider]

90. And how were Hamas survival instincts? I believe IDF has offed all the top guys who planned 10/7 now

With the confirmed killing of Hamas's top military commander Mohammad Sinwar in an Israeli strike, a chapter has closed on the elite leadership group in Gaza that orchestrated the events of 7 October, 2023.

Sinwar's demise follows the confirmed killings of other central figures who sat on what came to be known inside Hamas as the War Council.


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7v7p9p0rn7o

[brush]

91. Hamas? The terrorists hiding in caves? Who's talking about them?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

61. I sure hope we don't have to ever find out,

and that's kinda my point, for now, and hopefully long into the future, Israel has bought itself, and the world, time.

[Mosby]

72. Iran won't fire a nuclear ballistic missle into Israel

They don't have the technology for that and it would be stupid.

What Iran would do is smuggle a nuke into Israel in a box truck or something. After the detonation they would have "plausible deniability" which would protect them from reprisal.

Easy peasy.

Thats why their nuclear program needs to be completely destroyed.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

87. I didn't necessarily mean firing a nuke into Israel,

it would be more like what you describe, but Israeli intelligence would, hopefully, intercept it before it reaches Israel and, IMO, if Iran did manage to smuggle one in and it detonated, Iran would cease to exist about 1 hour later.

[WSHazel]

15. Really?

Is your premise that Iran's leadership, which is under the constant threat of assassination, is a collection of total fucking idiots? You don't think they are aware that they are under the threat of assassination and take precautions? Walk me through how stupid you think they are.

And if your premise is accurate, and Iran is run by the stupidest people on this planet, ever in history, then why do you consider them threats? Anyone as stupid as you seem to believe is not worthy of exposing our advanced intelligence capabilities to find, at the same time on the same day, to assassinate.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

17. Put simply, overconfidence is killer.

Let me put it to you this way, friend. If you give a toddler a nuclear weapon, would you consider them a threat? I would, because even though they might not know what they're doing, they may slap that big red button because "Button". Then millions die. All because one toddler with a button decided to play slapass. THAT is why I consider them a threat. Same as North Korea.

Except Iran AREN'T Toddlers. Toddlers, we can excuse because they don't know better. Iran's leadership, they DO know better and still have the button. Not only do they have the big red button, they've already been blowing up other places with many smaller buttons. They're a knowing, thinking, sentient, vengeful, religiously extremist toddler with the ability to vaporize millions of people in a nanosecond.

And I won't even dignify the "Exposing intelligence" argument, since 95% of the time, targets expose themselves through various forms of media.

If you don't think that's a threat, then I can't explain further.

[WSHazel]

22. This was a mass assassination attempt, not an attack on nuclear assets

Israel attempted to take out all of Iranian leadership, and failed. Hitting a few facilities that everyone knew were already there was not the point of this attack, it was a cover. Trump's stupid endorsement after the attack means that no country will ever trust America in a negotiation, ever again.

It appears that the Saudi's were behind this. They have the most to gain from a wipeout of Iran's military leadership and an embarrassment of the rest of the country's leadership. So for those scoring at home, the U.S. helped and authorized an attack by a hated, murderous, semi-dictator Netanyahu to help the country that attacked us on 9/11.

Nice work.

[Mountainguy]

24. Comical

You assign some purpose for a strike that you have literally no idea, much less proof, of and then say it was a failure for not meeting your made up objective.

[WSHazel]

27. Why are so many people defending Trump?

This attack was stupid and pointless, and guarantees retaliation. And you are celebrating it.

Even Trump's State Department is smart enough to distance itself from this attack, through the WSJ article this morning. So why are you strapping yourself to Netanyahu? Please walk me through how supporting Netanyahu helps American foreign policy or progressive objectives.

[Mountainguy]

29. Because Iran is

A Russian puppet state who's sole role has been to destabilize the entire region.

[WSHazel]

40. Should America go to war with every country it doesn't like?

How much war would you like?

Iran is a terrible government, that is also thousands of miles away and not really a threat if just left alone. In fact, Iran has had repeated challenges to the theocracy over the years, and would have likely been overthrown from within if the U.S. had simply let sanctions run their course rather than Trumpify our foreign policy. Now, the population hates us and an internal rebellion will never happen. It sounds like you are advocating more of the stupid policies that got us to this point.

Also, the country that benefits the most from an unstable Iran is Saudi Arabia. Should Saudi interests be a guiding principle to American foreign policy?

[Hellbound Hellhound]

25. So here's the thing. Killing EVERYONE just creates a power vacuum. It means those next in line ascend.

For the sake of argument let's say I was in Israel's shoes and I wanted to send a message to Iran. Here's my checklist.

1. Wipe out everyone beneath the head honcho and his immediate cronies. This sends the message that "You could be next".
2. Strike at strategic military sites preemptively. This sends the message of "We can neuter you when we want and where we want."
3. (And this is kind of prediction for the future so don't quote me here) Show of force using a secondary target. In this case, my bet would be somewhere in Gaza. Sort of a "Shock and Awe" moment, so Gaza should probably be preparing.
4. Direct confrontation. Steamroll Gaza, show up at Iran's door.
5. And only after ALL THAT would I consider targetting the big boss Khamenei himself.

Israel's following a pretty standard military history playbook. Kill the big man first, someone replaces him. Kill everyone around him, THEN the big boss? No one to replace him and anyone who tries knows exactly what will happen if they fuck around.

[WSHazel]

33. You think Gaza needs more shock and awe?

How much more? Should Israel eliminate 20% of the remaining population? 50%? 100%? What is just the right amount of murdering helpless, desperate people to get Israel's point across?

Since you are in favor of eliminating Iran too, why bother with killing a few generals? Why not just wipe that country off the map? Wouldn't that meet your objectives?

What other Middle Eastern nations do you think should be wiped off the map?

[Hellbound Hellhound]

38. Who said anything about what I think?

The only thing I "Think" is what I was hypothetically examining from a military perspective to eliminate Iran as a threat. It's nothing more than a thought exercise. I never said anything about "Eliminating Iran", nor did I say that Gaza "Needs" anything.

If I wanted Iran as a whole "Eliminated" , I'd say so directly. I don't fuck around with mincing words and dancing around meanings.

Learn from Chris Rock and keep my words out your mouth.

[WSHazel]

41. You did

Your post was:

For the sake of argument let's say I was in Israel's shoes and I wanted to send a message to Iran. Here's my checklist.

1. Wipe out everyone beneath the head honcho and his immediate cronies. This sends the message that "You could be next".
2. Strike at strategic military sites preemptively. This sends the message of "We can neuter you when we want and where we want."
3. (And this is kind of prediction for the future so don't quote me here) Show of force using a secondary target. In this case, my bet would be somewhere in Gaza. Sort of a "Shock and Awe" moment, so Gaza should probably be preparing.
4. Direct confrontation. Steamroll Gaza, show up at Iran's door.
5. And only after ALL THAT would I consider targetting the big boss Khamenei himself.

Israel's following a pretty standard military history playbook. Kill the big man first, someone replaces him. Kill everyone around him, THEN the big boss? No one to replace him and anyone who tries knows exactly what will happen if they fuck around.

That sounds a lot more like a policy endorsement than a thought exercise.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

42. It's called a tactical assessment.

If it were a policy endorsement, it'd go much more along the lines of "I support what Israel is doing".

I do a lot of wargaming. What I detailed in that post is exactly what I do in said gaming. I NEVER strike at the main leader because that just breeds resentment. I strike at the underlings, exterminate them first. Eliminate the base of power and ensure that no one rises to replace the head honcho. That means the leader has to struggle with replacing his lost elements, and while he's doing that, I strike again at a different target while he's looking away. Repeat this process over and over until the main leader stands alone, THEN wipe him out.

His successors will have seen what happens and be cowed. Even in a multiplayer game or an MMO, this works; Psychological strategic warfare is a thing.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

6. Israel doesn't need US Intelligence assets,

they're very well capable of using their own intelligence, they do, after all, have the most capable intelligence service in the entire ME, especially when it comes to Iran.

[sarisataka]

31. You assume facts not in evidence

What was revealed? The locations of Iranian nuclear research sites are not very secret.

[GaYellowDawg]

2. And yet

Iran is worse. Israel is at least a little pragmatic. Iran has a government full of foaming-at-the-mouth religious fanatics who would love to use nukes as a first-strike option. They're so deeply immersed in state-sponsored terrorism that calling Israel the rogue state in this instance is fucking ludicrous.

If I have to root for either bad or oh shit, it's the fucking apocalypse, I'm on team bad.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

4. No thanks, I prefer the rational Western world to Iran's world. Fuck Iran. They deserve everything they're getting. n/t

[milestogo]

11. Netanyahu is a real monster.

[Arazi]

54. Iran's mullahs are far FAR worse. They're a death cult

determined to destroy anything and everything that doesn’t conform to their fanaticism.

[mcar]

73. Iran murders women for not wearing head coverings

[tritsofme]

14. I love Western complicity! ❤️

[JI7]

18. Why ?

[madaboutharry]

21. The Islamic Republic of Iran is a rogue state.

There, I fixed it for you.

[Gore1FL]

30. They are too, no doubt. nt

[Bev54]

26. Thoughts about Trump's involvement, he refused to comment on whether he was involved

So is it, he was involved and Israel was given his full blessing or he asked them to do it and doesn't want to comment

Or did he tell them not to do it and they did it anyway and does not want to comment for fear of looking weak because Israel has gone rogue

Or he has no fucking idea whether he agreed or not because he is out of his mind and/or someone else makes the decisions not him.

[malaise]

32. Lying liars lie

That is all

[sop]

68. Depending on the outcome, he'll either take complete credit for it, or totally disavow the operation.

[sarisataka]

28. When Iran flung hundereds of drones and missiles at Israeli cities

I don't recall Iran being called a "rogue state"


Just sayin'

[Rob H.]

35. *terrorist state nt

[stillcool]

37. wow...this is some kind of thread

scanned all the way down and I am so dizzy.

[LexVegas]

45. And Hamas are freedom fighters. nt

[WSHazel]

49. Obvious straw man is obvious

The two choices are not unequivocal support for Netanyahu or being a Hamas supporter, no matter how desperately those supporting Netanyahu unequivocally want to make them the two choices.

[tritsofme]

55. I believe this is a reference to an argument made by the OP.

Who has stated on multiple occasions that Hamas are freedom fighters and that they are just like Nelson Mandela.

[sarisataka]

97. It is not a strawman if

such a comparison has been made.

[onenote]

47. What does that make Iran?

[egduj]

52. A neutered state?

[onenote]

59. No problem with that.

[GaYellowDawg]

108. I sure hope so.

There are no "good guys" here, but I'll take Israel over Iran, North Korea, or Russia any day.

[some_of_us_are_sane]

56. By definition

(At least since the 2024 election)....the UNITED STATES is a 'rogue state' -

A rogue state is a term used to describe countries that are considered a threat to international peace and stability due to their behavior.

I never thought I'd see this day.

[AloeVera]

77. It's been rogue for a bit longer. By that definition.

Decades.... Just sayin'.

Empires come, Empires go. Sometimes, Empires are run by a lunatic, especially as they are about to crumble.

[Ping Tung]

65. How many countries in the Security Council will vote in favor of this aggression? How will Trump;s ambassador vote?

Should Israel and Iran abide on a UN decision? Will Trump?

[Beastly Boy]

83. Whatever the resolution will be, China and Russia will vote in Iran's favor.

That should tell you a thing or two right there.

[Ping Tung]

85. And, Trumpers will vote for war.

[Beastly Boy]

94. In the UN?

I doubt the resolution will be in favor of war.

[Ping Tung]

96. I doubt that it won't.

I don't think that the security council will be debating about cookie recipes when the killing is going on.

[Beastly Boy]

99. Well, that rules out a vote on cookie recipies.

That leads to an inescapable conclusion: the resolution will be in favor of war. Got it.

[PJMcK]

67. Netanyahu is a war criminal

He has directed the mass murders of tens of thousands of civilians including children. There is no end in sight to this murderous madness.

[mcar]

74. Poor Iran

[ImNotGod]

69. Israel is ruled by a fascist criminal dictator who has the courts in his pocket, just like the US nazi dictator. nt

[mcar]

75. Iran murders women for not wearing head coverings

[AloeVera]

103. Actually that is not true.

Iran has a law that calls for various penalties, up to a DEATH SENTENCE. Horrible.

Many brave women are openly defying that law. Iran's government has chosen not to enforce the law - because Iran has a number of other problems and decided the last thing it needs is more international condemnation when it is trying to present a more "moderate" face to the world.

So not one woman has been "murdered" by Iran's government for defying the face covering law.

No, I am not a "mullah supporter". I'd like to see a free and democratic Iran. I'd like to see all countries free of the influence of any religion, whether it's Iran or Israel - or the U.S. now. But I am against war. So I dislike the usual talking points that are used to beat the drums of war or excuse an illegal act of war - a war that has nothing to do with defending human rights or women's freedom.

[mcar]

106. Well, aren't they wonderful

[enid602]

79. Israel

Israel’s campaign in Iran is needed to give them a few weeks of shade to continue their war against Palestine. The Israelí populous wants ALL of Israel to itself, and this regime is toast if it can’t deliver.. Israel has already lost most good will around the world. The regime must now produce.

[AloeVera]

81. Yes. The timing is perfect for Netanyahu and the religious lunatics running the genocide.

The worst is happening in Gaza now. Israel's scam GHF "aid agency" is wildly successful. People can't go for even the paltry and cruelly useless aid for fear of getting shot by the IDF or the criminal gangs it funds and partners with.

Mass starvation under cover of darkness. Internet cut off. Then, in a few weeks, or months, mass forced displacement of the starving to the Sinai, disguised as a "humanitarian" operation.

All planned by evil men and backed by an ethno-religious and ultra-nationalist ideology as despicable and fanatic as that of the mullahs. Honestly, no self-awareness of the hypocrisy of pointing fingers evident in this thread.

[Beastly Boy]

84. That is as silly of a wag the dog reasoning as I have ever seen.

Israel's war against "Palestine" is the direct consequence of Iran's decades-long sponsorship of anti-Israel terrorist proxies the region. If anything, Israel's campaign in Iran will eliminate the cause of the war to will bring it to an end.

[Mossfern]

88. Well,

shouldn't Israel want all of Israel to itself?
Did you mean something else?

Most countries want all of their country to themselves I believe.
Can you think of any country that doesn't?

[enid602]

89. Israel

Israel should be welcoming to all people living legally within it’s borders.

[Beastly Boy]

82. The Middle East... hell, the whole world, is full of states far more rogue than Israel.

Last edited Fri Jun 13, 2025, 11:41 PM - Edit history (1)

But let's all laser focus on Israel. Because the rest of them are... freedom fighters?

[BlueTsunami2018]

86. There is no scenario where I take Iran's side.

None.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

95. Oh, but Iran isn't, right?

The Iranian leadership and their minions are just benevolent "freedom fighters"?

[H2O Man]

98. Recommended.

[GoodRaisin]

100. K&R

[Raine]

101. Support Israel ... stop the madness of Iran!!!! nt

[H2O Man]

104. Support human beings.

[Raine]

107. By supporting the overthrow of a regime

that totally controls their peoples lives.

[RandySF]

102. How did Iran of all places get the benefit of a doubt?