Let's talk about American manufacturing quality. This is a Kitchenaid dishwasher,

[sinkingfeeling]

made in Findlay, Ohio by Whirlpool. I paid close to $1100 for it and it was installed in February 2023. It had a two year extended warranty. The entire left, bottom seam of the stainless steel tub came undone. Started leaking down my basement wall around January. Took me awhile to realize the wall wasn't wet from rain and only happened when I ran the dishwasher.

So, I spent $142.25 for a plumber who replaced water line last Wednesday. Still leaked, and they came back out the next day and pulled it out. The plumber said to call an appliance repairman. He came on Friday ($135) and said there was no way to repair the tub.

Interestingly, although both Kitchenaid and Whirlpool list customer service phone numbers on their websites, neither will take complaints nor let you speak to a real person.

My take is I spent alot of money to put in a top of the line appliance that fell apart in 2 years. I had a GE, bought locally at 60% off ($400) due to some trim piece that came unglued, installed yesterday for a mere $240.
I had to replace it because I'm putting the house on the market in 2 weeks.

[harumph]

1. I feel ya. Warranties - extended or not, are usually bullshit.

It's a crap shoot anymore buying appliances. I've come to the conclusion it's better to buy a used 5 year old fridge than
a new one, simply because if it were a lemon - it probably would have broken before 2 years. IMO, the lower/mid range
appliances with less "features" tend to last as long if not longer. In your area, try estate sales and auctions in the future.

[Tribetime]

77. Years ago I bought an extended warranty for something from walmart

And what a disaster trying to jump through hoops calling this number that number never got it resolved. So after that I went to Best Buy and never had a problem just went back to the store and talked to someone in person

[Clouds Passing]

2. Appliance quality has been declining for the last 25+ years.

I bought a brand new Maytag washer and dryer. They needed maintenance within the first three months of purchase. Biggest POS purchase I’ve ever made.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Maytag is also owned by Whirlpool. They bought out Amana as well.

[malaise]

11. THIS

Rec

[sop]

29. Appliances and electronics are not meant to be repaired today, just thrown away and replaced with new ones.

[debm55]

38. Agree with you , sop

[Pinback]

49. Yep, it's really a shame.

I have a 26-year-old Maytag refrigerator that’s still doing a great job. It’s had only one service call, and that was to clear a drainage line that was iced up because we’d let the air vents get blocked.

When it dies, I do not relish having to identify and purchase another brand/model that’s 10 percent as reliable.

[Clouds Passing]

72. We have had an Amana fridge for the past 25 years. Keeps going strong.

[Celerity]

3. We usually buy German made (cars, major appliances). nt

[EastBayGuy]

37. Agree, love my Bosch appliances!

[Dave says]

73. Ditto here. Bosch have been great for me.

[malaise]

83. Indeed

Rec

[hatrack]

4. We bought a Whirlpool washing machine at Lowe's - it failed less than 18 months later . . .

The technician came out and said that over the past year, he's seen at least a dozen of the same model which have failed. In nearly all cases, it's an electronics problem.

The electronic control component that needs to be replaced is unavailable, and he has no idea when it will be available again, since it's imported. He wasn't sure from where, but thought it was likely manufactured in either Korea or China.

His advice was not encouraging, but at least it was simple and direct: "Get a new washing machine".

It sure as shit won't be a Whirlpool.

[Johonny]

14. The electronic on my drier went out

Kept over heating. Morons didn't install a fan to cool the electronics board on a drier that gets hot. Companies today sell shit products and don't care. Read reviews before buying appliances. If you know a contractor friend or someone in the industry ask them. People tend to know the lemons, but the consumers don't.

[Blue Full Moon]

6. Planned obsolescence, also causes almost all of the pollution

[Kid Berwyn]

7. Must be related to our "Kenmore" refrigerator.

Darn thing cost a fortune. Now that it’s out of warranty it starts to leak water; and no one from Kenmore, nor any sane independent appliance repair wants to fix it. Despite the label, they say it was “Made in China, we can’t fix it.”

Replacement costs what a car used to. We use a lot of towels.

[Jit423]

8. Get this straight: These are not your grandfathers' manufacturers. They all left when Sears left.

I have a 47-year old GE Electric Double Oven that works fine. Never had any problems with it except when I spilled and burned stuff on the burner. I replaced the metal burners and drip pans once because of spills I made that hardened. I just keep it very clean. You can't even find double ovens anymore unless you ask for one custom made...don't have the money for that. My two neighbors have the same oven in their homes...still working fine. The GE freezer/refrigerator went on the blink and I found out it was just dirt and household dust that had collected on grill and motor. Cleaned them and its been working fine ever since. It is about 30 years old. The US used to have a reputation for quality goods and services. That stopped back in the 80s with isolationism, deregulation, and permissible conglomeration of consumer businesses. All the parts and steel used to be made in the US by a talented and well-trained workforce honed from great elementary, secondary schools and colleges. We no longer have any of that. Nor will be ever again.

OK so move along.

[sinkingfeeling]

10. Yep, I left a 31 year old, side-by-side Amana refrigerator and a 25 year old Kitchenaid dishwasher in my house

when I moved 5 years ago. Neither had ever had a repair.

[flvegan]

9. What made this Kitchenaid "top of the line" over the GE

you ultimately "settled" for in the end?

I honestly think that QC (going back to R&D, design) takes a back seat to our current insistence on the latest and greatest bells and whistles, connectivity and other unnecessary shit. That everything is built to its cheapest component of mostly plastic probably doesn't help.

*insert image of man yelling at clouds about how mom's fridge lasted like 147 years*

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Second most expensive model offered by KitchenAid. They were ranked by Consumers' Reports to be reliable.

[flvegan]

16. So "second most expensive" is top of the line?

Certainly something about the machine, other than price, made it "top of the line" (I assume).

[sinkingfeeling]

22. Yeah, more bells and whistles. The GE one even has more.

[Conjuay]

20. Expensive and Kitchenaid are interchangeable.

Even their mixers - the product they made their reputation on- seem to be in decline.

[moniss]

40. I found Consumer Reports over the years to be

unreliable. I would read a review where they trashed a product and said the knobs and controls were "flimsy and wobbly" etc. and that another manufacturers were firm and well constructed. I would go to the store and the one they trashed had nothing like what they found fault with while the one they praised felt like a failure waiting to happen.

I would see them review a car from an American manufacturer and give the leg room, shoulder room etc. measurements and call it "cramped" while at the same time saying the foreign make with even slightly less room was "adequate". CR has an agenda and if they get called on these kinds of discrepancies they get downright hostile.

[DENVERPOPS]

41. Kitchen Aid Superba

used to last for 25+ years, so did Kenmore Washer's, Dryers, Refrigerators etc. An appliance Repair guy told me the these days, you will be lucky to get 5-7 years out of any appliance made today, and after repair bills during that time that won't be covered by warranty.....

[Bluetus]

44. Branding. Many of them are made in the same factories from mostly the same parts by the same people

[OC375]

13. No surprise

The American consumer values price before quality...

Of course, that's because wages haven't followed inflation and not enough of us can afford what inflation would demand a $1000 appliance would and should cost 20 years later in a healthy econony.

As such, you cut corners and sell them for close to the price they cost 10 or 20 years ago. For the mid-grade model, just add WiF, an iPhone App and a touchscreen and call it an upgraded "smart" appliance instead of crap.

[Attilatheblond]

27. Thinking American consumers value 'new' & bells & whistles over quality

Having to buy based on lowest price is due to wages not keeping up with actual cost of living for decades.

Too many consumers are dazzled by marketing* promises. Too few actually do product research. Most have too little critical thinking skills.

* been saying for decades: marketing is ruining our nation

[Mosby]

28. How to evaluate quality

How would anyone know? Especially with appliances.

[Hekate]

35. Consumer Reports. If you don't subscribe, go to your public library for it.

[DENVERPOPS]

43. Everything produced has 'Flipped"

Manufacturers used to be in a race for the top, now they are ALL in a race purely for the bottom line..........

Pathetic, bend over America.........you asked for it.................

[peggysue2]

15. I hear you

I've come to the conclusion that all appliances anymore are a dice throw; you never know what you're going to get.

In Tennessee, we replaced a decrepit, unbelievably noisy Whirlpool dishwasher with a Bosch. Caught a sale and got it for around $500. When we sold the house, the dishwasher was still humming (a nice, quiet hum) after nearly 8 years. Unlike the Whirlpool, I never needed a service call.

Our house in Delaware came with 2-3 year old LG kitchen appliances, a label my son hates. He and his former wife bought a LG washer and dryer for his wife's mother.Paid a nice chunk of change, too. Within three years, the washer had rusted out. My son's father-in-law is a plumber. He took the machine apart and declared: This is a piece of junk.

We've been in DE 2+ years. I'm waiting for the breakdowns. I've already had the fridge serviced; the circuit board blew out last year.

Happy days!

[MagickMuffin]

17. I knew a couple who worked warranty repair call center

From what they told me was most appliances that they computerized components will expire rather quickly and the parts cost are even more expensive and lucky if you can get them shipped to the US.

And this was back in 2012 when they worked there. I’m sure parts are even harder to get now.

[Conjuay]

21. That's why there is a high demand for cars built before

The mid seventies. They're repairable.

[Mosby]

30. Where would that be?

There are virtually no pre 70s cars on the road and I suspect they aren't all that repairable due to the lack of OEM parts.

[DENVERPOPS]

52. Totally Agree

I have a Dodge 9000 GVW Van made in 1994..........for the last twenty years I have had to JerryRig many different things, just to keep it on the road. A car manufacturer is only required to produce replacement parts for ten years..........If it is a REALLY popular make/model sometimes you can find after market parts that someone is making.......

And friends with cars/trucks that are only 5-10 YO are having problems finding parts, and if they can find parts, they are prohibitive in price.
We have become a "Replace It Society", not a "repair it" society......

Same is especially true of the NEW home construction being done today. Un-believeably crappy construction AND at an incredibly outrageous, and inflated price....

[MichMan]

80. A car manufacturer is only required to produce replacement parts for ten

years.

Not true, but a commonly repeated myth.

[DENVERPOPS]

82. Not sure of that,

because for the last 20+ years I have had to go to junk yards for parts.......I kept trying Dodge, and kept getting NA's

I have also found that to be true in several others industries. Sometimes, other manufacturers will start making parts if there is enough demand, but not always.
I ran into that exact same problem with Huskavarna a few years back......Same with Crane Faucets, etc

[malaise]

26. And this is not just true of American made appliances

They quality of all appliances has deteriorated. Everything dies FOR PROFIT

[MagickMuffin]

32. Yes indeed, the Warranty Center handled calls for all appliances

No matter where they were made. They warned against buying any appliances that were regulated by computerized components. Kinda hard to do nowadays.

I’m so grateful my Kenmore washer and dryer are still going strong, which we bought in the 80s. I’ve never had any issues with it, besides the washer drum clanging because the clothes were not distributed evenly, readjust and that kiddo keeps on keeping on.

[Cosmocat]

18. They WAY overcomplicate them now

Consumers would be way better served If they would just start from square one and work from more simple designs/engineering with limited frills and prioritize quality of components (make them durable and replaceable).

But, they throw it out to R&D and engineers who want to show how smart they are, and it just happens to help their bottom line if people have to replace them with 10-12 years ...

[sinkingfeeling]

24. A welded seam on a stainless steel tub isn't that complicated.

[CountAllVotes]

19. BOSCH dishwasher

I have one of these I bought new about 20 years ago. It is still going strong and I never had a problem with.

It doesn't get used a lot admittedly, maybe once every week or two.

Sorry to read you have a piece of junk!

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

34. It's hit and miss with BOSCH

I’ve liked BOSCH dishwasher for 20+ years.

Pricey, but very very quiet.
That’s why I buy them.

Think I bought one in 2002, it last maybe 5 years,
Computer board failed, too expensive to fix then , maybe $400+
So decided just buy a new one, even though it was maybe $800.

That one lasted a few years too, had problems with water pump,
Had to repair once, then replaced pump a few months later,

Stainless Steel interior was getting all mineral buildup,
Kept having to clean inside

That one crapped out too,

So bought another Bosch dishwasher at about $950
at Lowes,, my own plumber installed for $140.

THAT SHUTDOWN only maybe 9 months after purchase,
The electronic board failed —- warranted, repair No Charge,
But it took over a week to get replacement parts,

[CountAllVotes]

60. Sorry to read this

n/t

[IrishBubbaLiberal]

62. But... dishwasher is used a LOT

Maybe 2x each day, although not always,

But it surely gets used a LOT.
I would say at minimum maybe 40 times each month

[CountAllVotes]

66. This one is maybe 20X a year

n/t

[Rstrstx]

74. Too bad Speed Queen doesn't make dishwashers

[Beringia]

23. I have an old KitchenAid Blender refurbished that I have had forever

And I really love it. It is sturdy and dependable. I don't think they make them this good anymore.

This is a version of it

[Johnny2X2X]

25. American Factory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Factory

As an engineer with a background in manufacturing, this movie hit true to me. American workers and American manufacturing have been falling behind for a long time.

[djacq]

31. Prefer LG Products

Also, check your water hardness. Calcium buildup is the enemy of appliances that uses water.

Invested in a Water Softener a few years ago. Best investment.

[Oneironaut]

33. It's all meant to be replaced

Nothing is meant to last longer than 5 years. It’s all cheaply made and made to be disposable.

[Vinca]

36. It doesn't seem any brand is reliable anymore. We've currently got a Maytag refrigerator I'd like to take

an ax to. Had another fridge go completely kaput on a weekend and the Maytag was all we could get delivered within hours. The temperature control is all over the place and the cheese drawer comes flying out if you look at it the wrong way. Grrrrr.

[Give Peace A Chance]

51. I hear you.

I bought Maytag Washer & Dryer a couple of years ago. I HATE them both.
The washer spins everything in a tight little ball that takes two people to untangle. the dryer hardly heats up & I have to run it for at least an hour to get clothes dry.
DON'T BUY MAYTAG!!!

[Archae]

79. My washer and dryer are Maytags...

They are decades old.
I think 20-30 years old.
Both work just fine.

How old is your washer and dryer?

[kimbutgar]

39. I had a Samsung refrigerator that was so loud and the ice maker went out after 4 years and needed to replace it

I did my research and was shocked by the terrible reviews for whirlpool and GE appliances. I knew I wasn’t going to buy another Samsung. And ended up by an LG one because of good reviews. I also recommend Borsch products but I couldn’t find a model that I particularly liked in refrigerators but I have a Bosch dishwasher and it’s been going strong for over 10 years!

[phylny]

65. I also had a problem with a Samsung refrigerator

There’s actually a Facebook group for people who take on Samsung for known deficiencies in production and quality. Samsuck should be the name.

[Delarage]

67. I had a Samsung refrigerator

An upscale model that I bought on Craigslist. The ice maker kept jamming up and I was googling how to fix it when someone in the comment section mentioned that Samsung had agreed to repair them for free. So I called Samsung and, surprisingly, they sent someone out to fix it. They replaced the ice maker and the motherboard and said that the communication between the two was part of the problem. A friend of mine had the same fridge, same problem, and also called and got hers fixed. I feel very fortunate... I'm glad I read the comment section!

[kimbutgar]

71. I also called and they replaced the ice maker and a year later the ice maker stopped working

And froze up and the sound was so loud I had to unplug for a few hours.

[Delarage]

75. That stinks

Ours are still working, thank goodness! There was another problem with some drain plug freezing. I YouTubed that and there was some repair kit available that I did myself.... That also seems to be working. Prior to that, what are women overflow and sitting on the bottom of the interior of the fridge. The fridge has amazing features and flexible shelving.... But I will never buy another Samsung refrigerator. Or washer.... But that's another story

[jmowreader]

42. Strangely enough...

…the second-best dishwasher on the market, Bosch, is American-made. They have a factory in North Carolina, and almost every Bosch dishwasher sold in the world is made there. There are some really exotic Bosch dishwashers made in Germany but most are from New Bern, NC.

Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana, KitchenAid and IKEA all make their dishwashers in the same Findlay, OH, plant.

The best dishwasher on the market is Miele, who makes theirs in Germany. This is what I have. The fun thing about Miele is spending more on a Miele gets you more features and not better quality. The cheapest Miele, which isn’t cheap, is just as reliable as the most expensive. But with the expensive ones you get things like their AutoDos automatic detergent dispenser. This uses commercial ware washing detergent it’s not even legal to sell to the general public if it isn’t encapsulated in a little container you put in the appliance door.

[Bluetus]

45. THe worst part of the story is the service not the build quality

We see this is every industry today. It is almost impossible to speak to a real person, and if you do, they usua;;y will do nothing to help.

[Old Crank]

46. We bought a dishwasher through IKEA

where we live. No idea where it was made. Turns out it is Whirlpool. A circuit board fried and the repairman took care of it under warrantee after 3 years. CAme with a 5 year warrantee. The previous one went more than 5 years with no trouble. We left it when we moved.

[off-the-clock]

47. FYI -there is class action $$ available deadline June 18

For refrigerators from three different manufacturers (freezing line)

https://www.coolingsettlement.com/

Might be good to check for other such actions on your respective appliances.

[appleannie1]

48. The compressor went out on my refrigerator.

Called a repairman. He said it would make more sense to buy a new one rather than pay what a new compressor would cost. He went on to say that they make them so they only last 8 or 9 years on purpose. I used my 1938 Westinghouse while I saved up for a new double door. I had used the Westinghouse for drinks until one of my grandkids spilled a bottle of soda and it ran down inside the controls and burned up the motor. In those days, they made things to last.

[purr-rat beauty]

50. We HAD the same model

Died in less than 2 years what a POS

[bucolic_frolic]

53. Everything must be cheapened to keep the price down because the deflated dollars

don't but much in components anymore. Thanks Greenspoon, Helicopter Ben QE1-2-3, Trump STIM. Dollar devaluation accomplished. BTW, did you see silver is up to about $33 now? Gold up $700 or more since the election? Is Crypto the only thing keeping the lid on things? That's where they hide the inflation, no?

[Try Harder]

54. Try here for up-to-date and thorough reviews

On YouTube - Ben's Appliances and Junk. Invaluable advice on maintenance and repairs as well. And for tools and shop supplies, try Project Farm. Be warned though, many hours of viewing and so easy to trip into that rabbit hole.

[KT2000]

55. Most people I know are looking

for mechanical appliances that do not use computer boards. For my simple as could be Whirlpool washer, the replacement boards run between $200 and $500. My washer is under 2 years old, It replaced a 28 year old Kenmore (likely Whirlpool).

The computer boards need to be recalibrated back to factory settings sometimes. For a month I had to go through the whole procedure for every wash until it finally reset. The nonmanual does not tell you this. Thank goodness for YouTube videos.

[marble falls]

56. In the nineties, I was standing in line to get a trigger for drill I'd borrowed. ...

... The was a guy in front of me and when he got to the desk, told the service guy about his slide in stove that caught fire under warranty. A part had failed while the unit was pushed in and could have burnt the house done. Fortunately, the only real damage was this expensive part on a unit still under warranty.

"I'm sorry, this part isn't covered."
"I have a warranty, why isn't it covered?"
"Because that part never fails."
"But it failed."
"It did, but it's not covered."
"Why not?"
"Because it never fails."
"But it failed."
"It did, but it's not covered."

He ended paying around $300 for the part that never fails.

[CaptainTruth]

57. As someone who has repaired a lot of appliances over the years...

...I see manufacturers today cutting costs on little things, like door switches (the small switches that engage when the appliance's door is closed). If those switches go bad the product won't operate.

You can have an $800 appliance & it stops working because the manufacturer cheaped out on a little switch that cost them less than a dollar.

In my experience when a major appliance (anything with a door) suddenly stops working, about 90% of the time it's a bad door switch. I've had to replace them on multiple clothes washers, driers, dish washers, microwaves, ovens etc.

Thankfully they're not expensive (usually around $5-$6 retail) & are usually easy to replace.

We've had a fairly expensive GE microwave for about 10 years & I've had to replace the door switches (it uses two) twice. The last time I replaced them I bought an extra set & left them inside the unit, so when I open it up next time the replacement switches will be there.

[calguy]

58. Brand names can be misleadng

Our house had a stand-alone ice maker installed under the kitchen counter when we bought it. Don’t remember the brand, but it stopped working a few months after we moved in. Replaced it with a Kenmore ice maker, because we trusted the brand. A part went out six months later, covered under the warranty. After warranty expired, something else went out. I’m pretty good at repairing things, so I found a service online where expert repairmen tell you how to fix your appliances. He told me what part needed replacing, and gave me a downloaded repair guide all the pros use.

I asked him if there was a more reliable ice maker than Kenmore, and he told the brand doesn’t matter, as there is only ONE manufacturer making ice machines. He said every brand out there is the exact same thing, and they all suck. All the major brands like Whirlpool, Amanda, Kenmore, etc., get the same machine from the same manufacturer. The only difference is the name of the brand.

[Bluesaph]

59. I had same dishwasher.. broke twice

In first five years. First time covered by warranty. Just trashed it about six months ago. They know they are selling shit.

[rsdsharp]

61. My brother and his wife redid their kitchen a few years ago.

The put in Kitchenaid wall ovens and Kitchenaids’s top dishwasher. They loved the ovens, and hated the dishwasher. They replaced it soon after.

[Luciferous]

63. I bought Samsung appliances 2 years

ago and they are awful too.

[phylny]

64. Our middle daughter and son-in-law bought a refrigerator

three years ago. They paid for a repair two years ago and now it’s not working again,. They have an appointment for today for a repair and AI tried to get her to cancel it through text message but she refused to accept that. We’ll see if the repair person comes. Fortunately, they have another refrigerator in their garage that came with the house when they bought it. It’s most likely 20 years old.

I have stackable GE washer and dryer in our bathroom and another set downstairs. We own a lake house that we live in year round and have lots of company. The washing machine in our bathroom stopped working and I couldn’t get it open. I have an extended warranty on it, but you would never know it since it took four weeks to get somebody to fix it. It too is only a couple of years old. My husband and I commented that it’s fortunate that it’s only the two of us and that we’re not a young single parent with children that have school uniforms or sports uniforms who has to go to a laundromat to get laundry done.

I think it’s criminal the way these appliances are poorly made. My father died a couple of years ago when he sold his house it was a refrigerator that was probably 45 years old, still running, still working.

[mucholderthandirt]

68. I hate that everything is getting computerized. It just breaks faster, and costs more to fix.

If you can even fix it.

People have gotten used to not needing to turn a knob to set the washing machine to the right cycle. Can't run a dryer without the computer telling them what to do. For sure can't set the cook time on an oven.

I have a mis-matched washer and dryer I bought when I got my trailer in 1994. Used, both for $300. They were made in 1982. The only repairs I ever had to make was to replace the washing machine inlet, because we were getting tiny grit in the water. Replaced the control knob because my boys wouldn't push it in all the way to turn and it wore out. Got one on eBay from a later year model, works fine, just has the cycles slightly off.

It leaks now for some reason, which I need to get looked at (I wash clothes elsewhere). I have newer machines out in the shed, just had the hassle of moving shit in and out of a trailer, have to go up and down some stairs and I physically can't manage it.

[mucholderthandirt]

69. Oh, and my mother still has the dryer she got in 1974!

It's needed belts replaced a couple of times, and once something burned out that my brother fixed (he used to work for an uncle in a laundry, he knows this stuff). I was in my sophomore year of high school when she got it, spent money from a work related accident because she hated hanging up clothes. LOL

[WarGamer]

70. 100+ years and FORD still can't build engines.

Being a car guy... I notice every time there are embarrassing QC problems in modern cars...

Like when the Ford Focus RS had engines that went boom....

Or when the new Bronco had bad engines...

Or even back in 1999 when I bought a new Ford Focus that died a loud death at 70k miles, out of warranty...

Turns out... Ford was having issues with a vendor supplying cylinder head valve seats that had a bad habit of dropping onto pistons resulting in BOOM.

No recalls... no apologies, no nothing. A known problem that they just let go...

[multigraincracker]

78. I worked for them. It was always

Production numbers before quality numbers.

[CanonRay]

76. We bought a Bosch. It's been great.

St that American built are junk.

[NBachers]

81. I've got a Speed Queen washing machine with twist 'n' click analog controls. No computer boards. It's like a 1964 Maytag

Very basic; not even a lint trap, but I paid more than most washing machines for it. American-made, solid as a rock, does what it's supposed to do and no bells or whistles.

[Mysterian]

84. I've had good luck with Whirlpool and Amana

I think they both come out of the same building.

[sinkingfeeling]

86. Whirlpool builds KitchenAids, Maytags, and Amanas. All the same.

[ProfessorGAC]

85. An Entire Economic Segment...

...and the hardworking people in it being flogged on a thread completely full of anecdotes.
Charming.