If Bibi and TSF "take out" Ayatollah Khomeini and his government in Iran,

[no_hypocrisy]

that would leave a power vacuum, not only in Iran and Iraq, but regional destabilization.

Allowing an opportunity for ISIS to move in for their Islamic califate.

As much as the current Iranian regime is noxious, it could be worse.

[RockRaven]

1. As a big piece of crap, who happened to be right this one time, said:

"You break it, you bought it."

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Wasn't it Colin Powell who invoked that "Pottery Barn" adage?

[RockRaven]

4. Indeed.

[regnaD kciN]

5. As another quote from that era reassured us...

…”We’ll be greeted as liberators.”

[rampartd]

2. pahlavi has reappeared

i think trump wants to install him as puppet shah

[Pachamama]

10. Yes - Reza is getting excited

[jcmaine72]

6. "As much as the current Iranian regime is noxious, it could be worse."

Last edited Wed Jun 18, 2025, 06:07 AM - Edit history (1)

And it will be worse, rest assured. Much, much worse.

If we've proven nothing else since we first decided to go chest deep into the raw sewage of the Middle East decades ago it's that we absolutely suck at nation building there. By and large, we are NOT seen as fair and unbiased actors by the overwhelming majority of the people there, let alone as the benevolent, boundlessly heroic, generous agents of democracy that our government undoubtedly sees itself as. If we're not instituting regime change to safeguard ours and the West's oil supply in the region, we're handing blank check after blank check to a nation they see (rightly or wrongly) as their mortal enemy.

The saddest part of all is that, given enough time, the people of Iran of their own accord would probably rid themselves of the Ayatollah's and the early-medieval theocracy they've shackled the Iranian people and nation to. However, if we destroy their nation, if we humiliate them on the world stage and impose some half-a$$ed puppet regime on them, they will never forgive us.

Iran was once a democracy, until the CIA helped to orchestrate a coup against its democratically elected prime minister (Mohammad Mossadegh) in 1953 because we didn't like the cut of his Socialist jib. Instead, we foisted the tyranny of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi on the Iranian people which eventually produced the 1979 Islamic Revolution....and gee, look at how wonderful that worked out for us.

How to radicalize a population over several generations and make permanent enemies 101. It's a class we've been masterfully teaching since the 1950s. Too bad we haven't learned anything.

[JI7]

9. Everything is not about the US. The people of Iran prefer the shah and that's what they want

And they do not hate America. They hate the Islamic regime that is currently ruling over them.

[jcmaine72]

12. "Everything is not about the US"

If we help to destroy their nation, especially if we force intransigent terms on Iranians in the form of an unconditional surrender, like the Orange Baboon is threatening to do, rest assured it will about us. And God forbid if one of those MOABs we'll undoubtedly drop on their nuclear facilities succeeds in irradiating large portions of their nation it will be ALL about us and us only, for generations of Iranians to come.

We desperately need to reassess our priorities here. Unfortunately, with such a smooth-brained, drool-dripping simian in the WH, that won't happen.

[EX500rider]

19. The safest place to bomb nuclear centrifuges would be Underground

[jcmaine72]

25. Safe relative to what, the surface of Mars?

Would you like to live above a sea of radioactive materials? How about your grandchildren? Or their grandchildren's great-grandchildren? That's a gift that will keep on giving for thousands of years, seeping into the soil, poisoning the environment.

That's quite the legacy we'd be leaving behind there, eh? I'm sure all future generations of Iranians will just be absolutely champing at the bit to be our friends and allies.

[EX500rider]

27. Since the facility is 100's of feet underground I doubt there would be any surface contamination.

Also the Natanz Nuclear Facility is in the middle of nowhere

[jcmaine72]

34. You doubt?

Oh, well that's okay, then. Bombs away!!

Who needs uncontaminated ground water, or soil? And what the hey, it's in an isolated area that no doubt future generations of Iranians, or anyone else for that matter, will never have any conceivable use for, so it's perfectly okay to shit on the planet.

[EX500rider]

40. No, I know

Raw uranium, even in its natural state, is not particularly radioactive, while spent nuclear fuel is highly radioactive due to the fission products and other radioactive materials created during its time in a reactor.

centrifuges would not have spent uranium

[jcmaine72]

43. Really, the Israelis themselves seem to think differently.

They already have plans in place to contain the nuclear fallout from such an airstrike.

https://www.newsweek.com/israel-plans-contain-nuclear-fallout-strike-iran-fordow-2086631

But what would they know? All the experts on Iran's nuclear facilities, their precise layouts, materials contained within, etc., are obviously all here at DU.

[choie]

28. They prefer the Shah?

You mean like they did when we overthrew Mossadeq?

[hedda_foil]

32. Could you please provide actual proof of your statement? Or are you the shah in waiting?

[vanessa_ca]

45. Deja Vu from the exact same mindset that brought us the Iraq War for the same sick goals.

CHENEY: The Middle East expert, Professor Fouad Ajami, predicts that after liberation, the streets in Basra and Baghdad are sure to erupt in joy...

RUSSERT: Do you think the American people are prepared for a long, costly and bloody battle with significant American casualties?

VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY: I don’t think it’s likely to unfold that way, Tim, because I really do believe we will be greeted as liberators.

WOLFOWITZ: These are Arabs, 23 million of the most educated people in the Arab world, who are going to welcome us as liberators.

Don't you fret. It's going to be another "cakewalk".

[orangecrush]

30. THIS THIS THIS

[JI7]

7. Most Iranians are not Muslim and the ones that are

are Shia so ISIS will not be able to get power there.

Most of the people want the Pahlavi family back and that is what is most likely to happen.

And for the people of Iran it would be far better than what they have now.

[AZProgressive]

8. I agree that ISIS would have no power in a Shia dominated country

but am not sure about looking at the future of Iran through rose colored glasses. If there is a serious effort at regime change in Iran with Trump & Netanyahu leading the charge it would most likely end up being a brutal occupation that is if they are successful.

[Haggard Celine]

11. I thought Iran was mostly Muslim.

Are they Zoroastrian? There aren't that many Zoroastrians there, right?

[JI7]

14. I think about 30 percent is shia Muslim and the rest

are a mix of non religious, zoroastrian , atheist and other things.

I think they have a culture which is stronger and unites them outside of religious belief.

[Scrivener7]

13. While I concede that you seem to have a better knowledge of Iranian politics than I do, I can't move away

from the fact that this is Taco we're talking about.

While there might be a path where this is better for the Iranian people, Taco has never made anything better for anyone ever. He won't choose that path.

I'm thinking of Atlantic City, where his casino promised to revitalize the city and turn it to the Vegas of the east. Instead, in true Taco fashion, it turned the city into a cesspit and ruined ALL the business there. It's a depressed ghost town now.

If he does this, it'll be done in a way that makes things worse for the Iranians and for us and for the rest of the world.

[JI7]

15. I agree that he will only do what benefits himself

my comments are more about the people of Iran and what I have learned from Iranian people . There is a lot of hatred against the regime among Iranians.

The pro Israel feelings among them have a lot to do with their hatred of the ruling govt. Although I'm sure some of that may have turned into true support.

But I think as liberals we need to keep this in mind about how the people feel and what they want. The most we can do is stay out as much as possible based on our history in the region .

Hopefully the regular people of Iran can take control and keep Trump and others tryng to benefit themselves out.

[hatrack]

16. No, most Iranians are not Sunni - but most are definitely Muslim . . .

ISIS wouldn't have a chance in a Shia country that, unlike Iraq, is relatively unified in its religious demographic.

[JI7]

20. Most have left Islam that's why they are cheering on Israel

[hedda_foil]

33. I doubt if anyone in Iran, other than Mossad agents, is cheering on Israel.

[vanessa_ca]

46. Just like the Palestinians are cheering on Israel -eom

[haele]

21. Not sure if they'd want a Shah back.

The reason there's a religious theocracy running Iran in the first place was that the Shah was a brutal dictator who didn't just force the majority of Iran's population into a peasantry by destroying labor unions and democracy under his "anti-Communist" agendas, and his secret police still went after "favored" or privileged intellectuals and businesses. The Shah was a Fascist.
The Revolutionary Guard and their use of torture and execution as a method of enforcing compliance to a regime came directly out of SAVAK's playbook.
The Iranian people were sold a bill of goods from Ayatollah Khomani when he persuaded them his interpretation of Islam would save them from the corrupt excesses of the Shah.
But an Autocrat is always an Autocrat, and the Ayatollah never promised Democracy or a thriving Middle Class, because his vision of Islam had no use for either. The Iranian people in general want Democracy, the ability to have personal autonomy and a chance to succeed if they take the risks, as well as the stability to live fairly comfortably and work within their capabilities, and with a safety net to help them through old age needed.

Neither Netenyahu and *rump/Project 2025, nor Putin and the rest of the Arab Cartel, are going to allow the Iranian people the dignity to determine their own government. They all want Iran to be an client oil supplier.

[JI7]

22. They do want the Shah back

[JanMichael]

35. Who is "they"? I haven't seen what you're talking about.

Then again I don't speak Farsi which I think is the language there. So I wouldn't know if they all want the shah back. Well not the one from 1979 since he is dead.

[Prairie Gates]

31. Fascinating

Do you have any data or evidence that "most" of the 92 million Iranians want the Pahlavi family back and are, as you say downthread, cheering on Israel?

I'd be interested in seeing some support for those claims.

[AloeVera]

42. What?? Absurd.

Muslims make up 99% of Iran's population. Shia at 90-95%.

Where do you get your facts from? The same place that tells you the Shah is wanted back??

Oh yeah, the Shah was great for Iranians.

Might want to check other sources.

[purple_haze]

17. Interesting read

https://www.bygonely.com/iran-1960s/

[Alice B.]

18. Was literally just wondering "and then what is the plan for after?"

Nt

[Rebl2]

23. If Trump and Bibi

break it, they buy it and will be to blame for what happens afterwards.

[the_liberal_grandpa]

24. I recommend reading this is you want to know what is likely to happen first.

https://malcolmnance.substack.com/p/are-we-at-war-with-iran-yes-no-maybe

[Basso8vb]

26. The CIA created this mess in the 50s.

Endless retribution is nothing more than gang warfare.

[Canada Kid]

29. Political change must happen

Any regime change is welcome in that country...but moreover...a western presence will allow a democratic shift towards a fair vote for someone who is not a controlling tyrant. Iranians need to get their freedom back. Living a lifetime in fear is not living. Using religion as a tool of control is abhorrant, and these scumbags have been doing this for decades. A complete elimination of this crap is necessary to erase the continuing threat not only to Israel...but to the rest of the Middle East and the world.

[JanMichael]

36. We don't have a very good record of regime change.

Seems kind of imperialistic to me.

[hedda_foil]

37. Regime change, yeah that's the ticket, kid from Canada.

I'm sure they'll love that as much as they loved the CIA replacing Mossadeq with the US-backed shah. That worked out almost as well as our little neocon adventure in Iraq.

[Kid Berwyn]

39. When Iran Learned to Hate America

https://democraticunderground.com/100220407386

[AZProgressive]

38. Erdogan said that Netanyahu is the "biggest threat" to middle east security

Even though I think Erdogan is like a dictator I don't think he is wrong. Not only is Israel occupying Palestinian territories, they attacked Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, and now Iran.

[Srkdqltr]

41. After reading all these posts i still have the same question, what next?

Any scenario for the day after they surrender, whoever they surrender too, is ....who knows?

A really stupid way to run things. But then, Trump and Netanyahu. What a shit show.

[maxsolomon]

44. ISIS are Sunni. Iran is Shiia.

I think you're off base here.

[CentralMass]

47. If tRump get involved, he would f'ck up a wet dream.