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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsYou can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands
The more I hear a bunch of ignorant gun nuts argue they need their assult rifles to protect our Constitution from our government and that teachers should be packin heat in classrooms, the more I think the bumper sticker slogan in the subject title of this thread often spouted by the NRA just might be the solution our country needs. 
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a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)former-republican
(2,163 posts)
Martin Eden
(12,868 posts)
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)It would freeze up some part of the gun (your choice) in certain areas.
Removing the chip could be considered a crime.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Unless it is phaser that will not work
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)A GPS chip that activates a solenoid to block the magazine from feeding the next round wouldn't work?
A GPS chip that locks the safety in SAFE wouldn't work?
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)What kind of power source is used to activate this devise? And would it not be defeated by taking the battery out?
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)the batteries out, the latch locks in place.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)This is why I was thinking of these being site installations, instead of portable units.
I figure building these are a win-win-win...
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Other issues include
- Power
- Failure modes
- Retrofits
Its pretty clear that disabling technologies for analog firearms is problematic at best.
Not all societal problems have technology based solutions. I used to think otherwise, but as I have gotten older, I came to understand the futility of that position
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)"you'll understand when you are older?" Really?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Guns that could be disabled and would automatically be disabled if you remove the chip that disables them in safe zones.
And I work for a technology company. I see no reason why it couldn't be done (granted, my company doesn't do that kind of technology, but I work with some incredibly smart people who could certainly develop something like that).
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)share it. If you make money with it, I'd like some. If you want me to build, I want the following:
parts and labor (skilled wage, thanks)
1 burger
1 beer
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)There is probably a line at the door on some of this already. (We are moving to first to file)
As a high tech guy who understands firearms well, I don't see this kind of approach as solution for anything but phasers, and no help for the 300M+ analog firearms already out there.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But one has to start somewhere.
(And I did think of the existing guns when I was talking to co-workers about this yesterday. Not much you can do about them).
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Aromatic taggants have their limits and are not foolproof
RF approaches are technically doubtful.
I am not playing the age card, but pointing out that those who believe we can solve societal problems solely through technology are going to be disappointed. I certainly was...
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)that, or set up metal detectors at the doors.
Technical solutions have worked so far, in my experience.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)to use RFID chips...
certain places would have pylons that energize the RIFD tag, locking the gun into SAFE mode.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)Take a quickly switchable RF transmitter, paired with a set of receivers.
There will be a frequency where the barrel will warm up. When the receiver picks up that the barrel in question is heating up, the main transmitter goes to full power. The barrel heats up (uncomfortably, most likely), swells, and loses true shaping.
The big problem would be the power involved...
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)Easily defeatable by taking the tinfoil off your head and wrapping it around your gun.
LMAO!
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)also, isn't that kind of puerile, on your part?
A technical solution is ALWAYS better than the precursors to a witch hunt.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)When something is proposed that is so out there I guess I am not very good at a subtle way of saying that.
Making a gun barrel hot enough to lose "shape" would require quite a bit of power. That power would have to be located on the gun, the fact that you had to tote 30 pounds of batteries around with you would pretty much make the gun useless without any transmitter. After the barrel lost shape, it would have lost it's temper, making the weapon unsafe to use ever again.
If it was just enough power to make the barrel "uncomfortable" I am pretty sure the stock and foregrip would insulate any user from that discomfort, just as it does when the barrel gets hot when it is being used. Past that, a pair of $10 leather gloves would resolve that issue.
Real world solutions are great, nonsense is nonsense.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)all it would take is the right set of freqs to get the job done.
I was thinking this machine would a site installation: someone brings a gun to school, and it never works again.
Gun free schools. Hit the button, and the school is safe.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)I did not know all it would take is "the right set of freqs" to make any and all guns unusable with the "hit of a button".
We can disarm the entire world, with the "hit of a button". Hell, let's make it portable, hostage situation ... roll up that truck and "hit the button" everyone is disarmed instantly.
How big can this zone be?
What complete nonsense.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)Maybe base it in a semi?
It's worth a shot... (pardon the pun...)
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)I'm just a machinist, but I know a little about heat treating and how hot things have to get to lose thier "shape". Most of the time in the heat treating world an oven is used to heat the metal to a certain degree and then it is cooled in a certain way as to achieve the hardness you want. There are inductive ways to heat metal that require the metal part to be wrapped in a conductive cord and then a lot of power is passed through that cord causing the part to heat.
Now, without making a gun weight 45 pounds because it has 3 car batteries on it, how exactly do you intend to create the needed power to make a gun barrel hot enough to lose shape? And, I would assume that unless you could make this happen in a matter of seconds it would do little good.
Just the power logistics, how do you make that gun barrel heat to 500 degrees??(just a guess, prolly would need to be hotter to make the weapon unusable)
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)I was figuring you'd place these machines in the areas you want safe. RF dielectric heating would be the operating principle. A barrel's a wave guide, no?
The power to run this thing is the real problem. It would have to be built into a structure (the only way to really make it work would be to use flash discharge capacitors, or fuel cells.) Call it 500C *4.2 (watts to calories) * 120 (spec heat of carbon steel) *efficiency = 252 KJ * reciprocal of efficiency.
It only has to work once, to make a gun unusable.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)Like I said, I am just a machinist, so the ability to generate a field like that is not something I am familar with. I would assume you are attempting to turn a school into a microwave.
This field that you speak of, would it not heat up any metal that was in the range of the wave? Would not any hollow tube (pen) create the same effect, and because of mass heat up even more rapidly than the heavier object (gun)? The metal bar in the student's desk? The water pipes? Would this not, in fact, destroy the very structure of the building? The metal conduit that the wires run in the walls? Wouldn't the walls catch on fire because of the heat?
All this, of coarse, is dependant on the fact that you would be able to generate a field with this kind of power that covers an acre of square land, for a small school.
Again, way past my pay grade, but I say ... rubbish, horsehockey, nonsense.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)a given diameter and length will pick a given frequency. that's why the low power fast switching freqs. You find the freq that corresponds to the barrel in question, in then go to full power.
mind you, If would save a lot of time to figure out the freqs for the barrels out there, and then make a set of pre-dialed "stations."
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)The military already has some of that technology and it doesn't require that much power.
I'd use a chip to receive the signal and it would lock the gun safety. If you tried to remove the chip, the gun would lock and could not be unlocked without destroying the weapon. You don't have to heat the barrel or anything like that.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)even if said weapon has no chip.
permanent gun shield.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)A gun is a very simple mechanical devise. There is no way to lock a gun that would prevent it from ever being used. You simply take apart the gun, and when putting it back together leave out that part.
These weapons that you are talking about come apart in pieces in less than a minute, changing these parts out takes little competance, locks like you speak of would be defeated with little effort.
Retrofitting them to the millions of guns out there would be impossible.
bakpakr
(168 posts)Fine if that is the way you want it. We'll get a drone right on that.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)I love model planes!
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Risk Assessment / Security & Hacktivism
Novel attacks severely disrupt GPS gear used by the military, private industry.
by Dan Goodin - Dec 14 2012, 9:00am EST
Scientists have devised a series of novel and inexpensive attacks that can severely disrupt mission-critical global positioning systems relied on by the military and a variety of industrial players, including airlines, mining companies, and operators of hydroelectric plants and other critical infrastructure.
Unlike previous GPS attacks, the one developed by a team of scientists from Carnegie Mellon University and a private navigation company exploits software bugs in the underlying receivers. That allows the attacks to be stealthier and more persistent than earlier exploits, which primarily relied on signal jamming and spoofing. Prototype hardware that cost only $2,500 to build is able to cause a wide variety of GPS devices within a 30 mile radius to malfunction. Because many of those devices are nodes on special networks that make GPS signals more precise, the attacks have the effect of disrupting larger systems used in aviation, military, and critical infrastructure.
The PCSS, or phase-coherent signal synthesizer, that they developed simultaneously receives and transmits civil GPS signals. It carries out many of the same things done by spoofers used in earlier GPS attacks. But instead of merely providing false information designed to compromise the accuracy of the GPS readings, it includes data that exploits weaknesses in the firmware of nearby receivers, many of which use the Internet to share their readings with other machines. The success of the PCSS is the result of an almost complete lack of authentication in the devices that send and receive GPS signals.
"Our findings suggest despite the fact that GPS is an unauthenticated broadcast protocol, current receivers treat any incoming signal as guaranteed correct," the scientists wrote in a research paper. "Worse, receivers often run full OSes with network services. Together, the possibility of RF [radio frequency] and ethernet attacks creates a large attack surface."...
http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~dbrumley/courses/18487-f12/readings/Nov28_GPS.pdf
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)to Ramsey electronics, and you've got a drone-killer.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)They have made so many things so dependent on GPS it has become a SPOF
(single point of failure) in any number of systems.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)Do we even have LORAN or the older OMEGA system anymore?
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Little impact if any on higher end unit, civilian or military
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Google some of this, there is all sorts of stuff in the open literature on anti spoof and anti jam.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)It will take down the toys really well and some of the lower end LEO stuff as well. Its not blocking the GPS, it is blocking the command link.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)The "I'm worried about the GPS" bit was due to so many people (and some in our Armed Forces) that seem to rely solely on GPS.
Ramsey Electronics sells a FM transmitter in a trunk, that ought to do the job...
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)
TlalocW
(15,383 posts)Where do you plan on being buried? Be sure to let everyone know the gun in your cold, dead hands is mine! MINE!
TlalocW
ComplimentarySwine
(515 posts)Will you be taking the guns from the gang neighborhoods and the drug dens, or just from the relatively law abiding upper middle class?
Martin Eden
(12,868 posts)... not intended as a serious proposal, though no doubt some of these bozos would fire at federal agents before relinquishing their assult weapons.
Toronto
(183 posts)Just make all the bullets mildly radioactive - the more you play with them, the more you risk getting cancer. Given the state of medicare, the gun nuts will eliminate themselves....
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)which isotope?
I'd stay away from the SNM, myself...
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... then, guess we just do nothing.
Thanks for playing.
Iggo
(47,554 posts)a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)"Molon Labe"
Iggo
(47,554 posts)a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)And I like your sig line.
My family would approve.
Response to Martin Eden (Original post)
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