He offered it because he knew they couldn't take it. Which means it was always safe.

[WilliamPitt]

So let's all calm down a bit.

...and remember who we're dealing with.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. I hope you are right.

I really do.

I don't like anyone getting near Social Security or Medicare - for any reason.

[CountAllVotes]

3. Agree!

The people making these decisions will likely never in their lives ever collect Social Security nor have to deal with something called "Medicare"!

GOD DAMN THEM ALL!!!!

[Eric the Reddish]

85. Me too!

:worried:

[democrattotheend]

2. Please, Proceed, Speaker

[Barack_America]

6. Those eyes. Like a child on Christmas morning.

[Whisp]

8. looks more like a cat that cornered a mousie. heh. no children and christmas in those eyes to me. n/

[Doremus]

12. I thought of an eagle with a rat in its sights gliding in for the kill. nt

[Barack_America]

16. I think we may have had a different approach to Christmas, lol.

"Like a cat that cornered a mousie"...exactly.

[Bonobo]

4. A softening on willingness to bargain a particular chip...

Is not a good idea.

Even if it works this time, it makers the idea of it happening in the future more acceptable.

Social Security went from being a 3rd rail for Democrats, a non-starter to ... a "let's see what you got?" position.

Long term, not good.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

28. The President's

bargaining position next time will be strengthened by what happened today, not weakened because he threw up a false trial balloon to make the other side look foolish. They got out played. The next time they sit down he can say right from the start 'cuts to the safety net (SS, Medicare etc) are not negotiable. You had your chance'

[bahrbearian]

83. Why not start with the Elephant in the Room, the Pentagon,, Crickets

[forestpath]

5. Being jerked around on such a crucial issue is not conducive to feelings of calmness.

And I believe President Obama will put SS cuts back on the table as soon as he can, anyway.

[Whisp]

10. some of us know that it's the Pugs Obama jerks around...

but others don't get it.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

29. Why would he do that?

What is your rationale for that statement?

[bahrbearian]

84. Exactly , Why would he put something on the table that doesn't add to the debt?

Why would he touch the third rail?

[MotherPetrie]

7. No. He offered it because he was willing to give it to them.

He was willing to play chicken with SOCIAL SECURITY, the only thing standing between many people and homelessness and starvation.

To me, that is simply unconscionable.

The fact they didn't take it was because of Boehner, not Obama.

I don't believe this is where it ends, or that there is any guarantee Obama will withdraw it as a bargaining chip.

[Whisp]

13. no. that is wrong. way wrong.

but stew and marinate in that, I don't want to mess up your enjoyment of it all.

[MotherPetrie]

15. Wrong, how? Obama still wants a deal with Republicans. Just because Boehner tanked doesn't mean

diddly in the long run.

[OldDem2012]

73. Yes, WRONG. Every time the President offers something he KNOWS the GOP Tea-Nazis will NEVER....

....accept makes him appear to be the grownup in the room to a majority of Americans from all political persuasions. His support grows while the GOP Tea-Nazis continue to take on water.

Additionally, the President also KNOWS that the Dem-controlled Senate will NEVER vote for any plan that cuts any earned benefit program such as Social Security, Medicare, etc. They have his back, unlike a number of DUers on this board.

[MotherPetrie]

77. Then WHY OFFER IT IN THE FIRST PLACE if he doesn't mean it?! Your rationale makes no sense to me.

Why scare people with his offers to Repugs if he is just playing chicken? That is a heartless thing to do to people who have no reason to doubt that Obama means what he says, and it makes Obama look dishonest and calculating at the expense of poor people, for NO REASON.

[TheProgressive]

19. Larry O'Donnel just said that Obama offered c-cpi on Monday to close the deal

Not that Lawrence O'Donnel is some sort of final truth but if it is true - we do not
have a president who is a Democrat.

[Doctor_J]

25. Yup. This might have been the worst performance by a Dem president

in my 56 years of living. we will be lucky if SS, Medicare, Medicaid, the public schools, the post office, and the party can withstand four more years of him. thankfully Sanders and a few real Dem kept him from disaster THIS time.

[leftstreet]

43. +1

I don't know how people can spin this as a brilliant political move

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

30. Not so

your statement makes it sound like the President offered to shut down SS or something. He called their bluff. They blinked and folded.
It is off the table for good now.

[Lex]

9. So he was trying to demonstrate how completely intransigent they are?

[dflprincess]

11. A Democratic president should not play games with Social Security and Medicare

if, for no other reason, than out of consideration for the people who depend on them now and those of us who will need them in the future.

What would have happened if they had taken the deal?

I do not trust him on this at all.

[amandabeech]

17. + 10000.

Before she inherited some money, my Mom was having difficulty making ends meet with a small SS payment and a small pension. I helped her some, but I'm having trouble making ends meet, too.

My Mom knows and has known plenty of people, mostly elderly women, who really have had to choose between food and medicine.

Any Democrat who even puts SS on the table even if he or she thinks or knows that the deal will fail looses credibility in my book.

[Doctor_J]

23. Yeah, the OP is complete BS

we will still end up with cuts, and they will be because the president is either completely incompetent or sides with Boner over Pelosi & Sanders. You would think the disasters of 2009-2010 would have put the "He's playing chess!!11!1" crap to bed, but there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

32. Did you forget this?

[SidDithers]

67. **coughorseshit**...nt

Sid

[dionysus]

78. .

[randome]

14. I think that's true.

He's dealing with petulant children, not intelligent statesmen.

[KoKo]

86. You Tube of Obama's 2006 Speech to Brookings Institute...Words from his Mouth:

Obama 2006—”Too many of us have been interested in defending programs as written in 1938″

On launch day, enter soon-to-be–presidential candidate Barack Obama to the Robert Rubin–Roger Altman chambers. Remember, Rubin and Altman were Bill Clinton Bigs. Obama felt very much at home in this chamber, with these ideas. Very one of them.

You could call this pb[Obama’s NeoLiberal Manifesto. Watch and see if I’m wrong. It’s not long, it touches most of the bases, and tells you all you need to know about how Barack Obama would govern. (Points if you hear footsteps of 2013 as well.)

&feature=player_embedded#t=0s

[Rex]

18. Obama loves to give them as much rope as it takes

that is obvious.

[LiberalElite]

21. but he makes me very very very nervous when he does that

[Recursion]

20. It was obvious when he tied Presidential debt ceiling authority to any deal

That was not something the Republicans would give up (witness McConnell filibustering his own bill) so there was not a deal to be had.

[Doctor_J]

22. **coughorseshit**

that's how we ended up with insurance mandates and billionaires tax break extensions. If you're still believing in 13D chess you need to put down the pipe. And "who we're dealing with" is a Reaganite president who is going to have to be browbeaten so he doesn't give away the treasury, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, public schools, and everything else.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

34. What evidence do you have to support your statement?

?

[moondust]

24. Playing chicken with radical zealots?

Maybe not the best approach.

[SugarShack]

26. Oh so the soc sec cuts are gone? I hear its still the prez's plan on the local nooze at 11.

[Doctor_J]

68. Shh! Don't lie down in front of the bullshit bandwagon!

you're interrupting a very nice dream

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. how do we know this?

[Enrique]

31. that is an Obama-centric analysis

concerned more with how people see Obama than with the fate of Social Security.

By the time anyone is affected by this, Obama will be long gone. People are over-concerned with Obama, imho.

[The Second Stone]

33. We still have to keep in contact with our representatives in

the House and Senate and make sure they know where we stand. As FDR used to say, speak up and force him to do things. Obama needs our help to know that he must strengthen social security and medicare, not weaken them.

[bigtree]

35. chess!!&*!UY!!&^!!^%&!!!

[msanthrope]

36. No sheet changing, eh??? And I mean that in the nicest way possible, Will.

They blinked.

We won't.

[MFrohike]

37. Fantasy

He could have offered something less but still painful to make a point about willingness to bargain. The fact that he jumped right to the holy of holies is indicative of where he'd like to begin his bargaining.

Obama is a very cautious politician. He doesn't take risks, he doesn't try to influence public opinion unless it's leaning his way, and he's always sure to sound conciliatory to his opponents. That cautiousness doesn't square with this kind of move. If this is his form of gambling, it's unbelievably reckless. The more likely observation is that he took a risk with this offer because it's something he wants bad enough to shed some of his characteristic cautiousness.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

38. I mean, after all....we got single payer, didn't we?

I'm a staunch Obama supporter who contributed for and voted for him in both elections. But I can definitely say there have been fights where he didn't make me too thrilled with the result.

[Cha]

41. Single payer was not possible at that time.. President

Obama got what was possible and it's a strong foundation to build on.

I'm so glad we got Obamacare.

[ellisonz]

52. +1

[amandabeech]

54. He didn't even put it in to use as a bargaining point.

I guess that's 17D chess but we all have IQs that are 10X less then the President.

Yeah, I really trust someone who thinks that Jaime Dimon is a sharp businessman.

[GreenPartyVoter]

63. He could have gotten some sort of public option, but he never really tried. And I think he

might have stood a decent chance with it, at least compared to straight up Universal Healthcare.

[Cha]

79. President Obama knew what he could get.

[GreenPartyVoter]

82. Which was a great prize for the insurance companies. Of course he could get that.

[MannyGoldstein]

39. Remember how he bluffed them on free trade? On accounting deregulation?

Me neither.

[spanone]

40. 'you can't always get what you want'

mick & keith

[amandabeech]

55. But a lot of Americans can't even get what they need

because their jobs have gone to low wage, low regulation countries.

Those of us who have enough to buy at least some American things made with fair labor practices and enforced environmental laws can't find anything to buy!

17D chess. Whatever.

[Demo_Chris]

49. Obamacare

nt

[TheKentuckian]

42. Self justifying logic. How do the American people benefit from this?

He showed how intransigent the TeaPubliKlans are for the eleventieth time? Y'all still playing that nonsensical card?

Anyone that doesn't know doesn't care to, plain doesn't care, or likes it like that. We are going into a second term, there isn't a possible benefit and "winning" is defaulting to last garbage sell out deal we made and an upcoming hostage crisis anyway. There was no gain to be had and none was achieved. This stuff is a fairy tale and a damn silly one complete with pictures of Spock playing 3D chess over and over again based largely on beating Hillary Clinton when his only real trick was pretending he was just like her and taking riding the opposition wave.

[DonCoquixote]

47. Just like her?

Sadly, I think Hillary would have been as right as Obama, if not more, remember, she was the brains behind the big dawg, the one that was ready to private SS back in the 90's before getting caught with a cigar made him lean left.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/05/29/the-pact-between-bill-clinton-and-newt-gingrich

If anythign, the things that make me disappointed about Obama are the ways he IS like Clinton.

[TheKentuckian]

75. That was what I was trying to express but lost the key "wasn't" in the just like her

[Doctor_J]

70. They don't

that's the point.

He showed how intransigent the TeaPubliKlans are for the eleventieth time? Y'all still playing that nonsensical card?

Amazing that anyone is still swallowing this bilge. If for once during his presidency he would

1. Stand them down
2. Tell the American people that he's not going to play any more games with them

He might actually be able to beat them at something (like, for example, get some legislation that's closer to what WE want to what they want)

[donheld]

44. Once again i bow

[Bonobo]

45. Remember what Zappa said.

[JackRiddler]

46. He dangled the baby over the balcony because they couldn't demand he drop it.

Which means it was always safe.



Are you fucking kidding me?

[jsr]

65. Clear proof of strong good hands. And effective blindfold. No worries.

A world-class demonstration of his credibility as a father right there.

[Demo_Chris]

48. Off topic?

My buddies and I were playing cards. I was down a bit but had a great hand, so I bet one of the guys that he could have sex with my wife if he won. I knew he wouldn't take me up on it because his wife was there too. Anyway, now my wife is pissed at me. I tried explaining to her that I knew the bet was totally safe, but for some reason she still feels like I betrayed her trust and disrespected her. Crazy huh?

[hfojvt]

50. who are we dealing with?

The guy who got elected in 2008 promising to end the Bush tax cuts for the rich, but instead kept them for he whole first term even though they were scheduled to expire in 2010?

That guy?

The guy who had a health insurance plan with a public option and no mandate, but then signed a bill with a mandate and without a public option?

That guy?

The guy who campaigned on a making work pay credit, which he got as part of the stimulus, but then abandoned in favor of payroll tax cuts that heavily favor the rich and the upper middle class?

That guy?

Are we dealing with that guy, or with some other guy?

[Exen Trik]

51. But we SHOULD be mad!

Because either he meant to give it away and he deserves it... or it's like you said and he is counting on us getting pissed. Why would we want to disappoint him?

And if we DID all know for certain that he wouldn't really sell out, and we were all nice and quiet and patient, how would those third way fools learn anything? So let's just keep fighting as hard as we can for everything we believe in, regardless of the game anyone may or may not be playing.

[allrevvedup]

53. That's my impression.

Anyone thinking such deviousness is not possible should sit in a student council meeting some time or watch their local city council in action on cable tv, if they're still broadcasting them. Pols propose and vote on stuff they know won't pass all the time.

Still, as many have noted, the strategy is not without risks, and in any case, howls of protest work in Obama's favor, and ours, whatever the strategy is, as they give him a bulletproof excuse not to make the same offer again. Everybody understands votes. So howl howl howl as a certain Mr Ginsburg once said.

[amandabeech]

57. Student councils and local governments are not playing with their elderly neighbor's lunch money. n/

[allrevvedup]

59. Very true.

In fact I meant to mention that, but it came out as "not without risks." But I agree, it's rare that we get to see this kind of brinksmanship writ quite so large, and it's a little disconcerting. No very. So I'm planning to howl every way I can because it can only help.

p.s. have you signed Manny and ProSense's WH petition?

[amandabeech]

60. I signed Bernie Sanders.

There was no point in risking SS. The pukes are always after SS and they have been since FDR signed the bill.

Bringing SS into the mix when the pukes haven't even asked for it and would collapse anyway was completely unnecessary BS.

[allrevvedup]

61. Here's the link:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/take-social-security-negotiation-table-it-does-not-directly-contribute-national-deficit/Xb0BCZkg

Is Bernie Sanders' petition still open?

[allrevvedup]

62. Linke to Bernie Sanders' petition, and it's still open:

http://signon.org/sign/stop-dismantling-social-1?source=mo&id=55425-5613343-xdePqox

[Resonance_Chamber]

56. He is playing a very dangerous game with peoples lives

Dangling the carrots of destroying the safety net in front of the Pubs is going to backfire on him very soon if he keeps it up. They will take the bait and we are then screwed. His game is also scaring the crap out of the people who will be impacted the most by his games.
I do not really trust him, he is not liberal or progressive, he is a moderate, centrist, blue dog and they can NEVER be really trusted.

[idwiyo]

58. The sarcasm smilie is missing from your post.

[Cosmocat]

64. oh, bullshit

I like Barack Obama a lot.

Part of what I like about him is that he is not a devious man.

This simply is not how he operates.

In fact, it is FAR from how he operates.

[SidDithers]

66. DU rec...

And Harry Reid was sitting in the background, prepared to kill it if, by some miracle, it got past the House.

It was never in any danger of actually happening.

Sid

[Liberalynn]

69. Will you know for certain

that no deal that includes SS will be passed?

Someone official has guarenteed that right?

Because that is not what I am hearing. Carney was out there last night saying our deal is still here Boner if you want it.

They are still offering and it has a chance if Boehner and Pelosi can pull together a coalition of enough Dems and Pukes loyal to Boner to do it. That is what I heard from MSNBC last night and Bill Press this am.

Victory dance is premature IMHO.

When it SS offer is officially off, I will celebrate and apologize but not until then.

[OldDem2012]

71. Agree 100%. But you're going to take a lot of flak from the Literal Lefties....

....who just can't seem to grasp the complexities of big-boy politics. To them, the President is not worthy of their support under any circumstances. In may respects, they appear as bad as their right-wing GOP Tea-Nazi counterparts.

[99Forever]

72. Tho I usually agree with Mr Pitt...

... quite frankly, I find this time that I am somewhat dismayed that he thinks we gullible enough to be fooled by this sort of flimflam apologencia.

When I hear the words "Social Security and Medicare cuts are completely off the table." from the president's mouth, try this one again. Till then, I will remain deeply skeptical.

[Odin2005]

74. The haters are just looking for excuses to bash Obama.

They are so pure that they don't understand the psychology of politics.

Jeez, I'm frickking autistic and even I was able to read between the lines and figure out what was going on. It's not that hard! Now the Teabaggers have egg on their face.

[Demo_Chris]

81. Oh good grief

The "teabaggers" have the FOREVER talking point that even the "radical marxist socialist" Obama thinks Social Security and other entitlements need to be cut. Thanks to Obama, cutting Social Security is now always on the table. Why, even radical leftists like Obama agree it needs to be slashed. And if the 'radical leftist' position is cutting it... then what's the sensible moderate compromise that the corporate media will demand?

Let me cut to the chase:

Thanks to Obama, Social Security WILL be cut. That is now a given. The only question is how soon and how much. Everything else, such as simply raising the cap, is now off the table. Even "socialists" agree we need to cut that sucker.

If you are on social security now you are probably fine-- for now anyway. Sure, you'll see your checks go down every year, you'll fall further and further behind, but you will have the comfort of knowing that as bad as you have it now, future recipients will have it far far worse -- assuming they see anything at all. Screw them, they can start planning now for their retirement now, right? They can start saving all the extra cash they earn at their Walmart jobs. They'll be fine!

[Turbineguy]

76. I believe you are correct.

Make them an offer they will refuse. That way Obama can negotiate on his terms later.

[cthulu2016]

80. And it is now the STARTING POINT of future negations

That's some awesome 3-D chess