Wanna kill LaPierre's "A Cop in Every School" solution with a single sentence?

[Stinky The Clown]

"Will you allow us to raise YOUR taxes to pay for it?"

There are many GOOD, SOUND reasons not to do this dumbfuck idea, b ut that question ought to stop the cheering mouth-breathers and knuckle-draggers.

[peacebird]

1. Plus armed cops at columbine did not stop the massacre there

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html

[sulphurdunn]

16. What I really can't stand

are old men who color their hair. Disgusting! Where I teach there are 1,000 students and an armed cop. He carries a 9mm pistol, not much of a match for a high powered semiautomatic rifle. Maybe we should arm him with a machine gun and toss in some grenades. Wait! We could have snipers on the roof and soldiers manning fighting positions in the halls. Maybe, we could hire some Ninjas too. LaPierre is a pathetic idiot and nothing but a hired shill for the gun industry, which is far more disgusting than him dying his hair, I suppose.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

19. +1 On the ninjas...

But then you'll have to start bribing the pirates (a ninja's natural enemy).

[sulphurdunn]

21. Shit!

I forgot about the pirates.

[Bohunk68]

37. Just what does coloring one's hair

have to do with this????? Do you also think it's disgusting for women to color their hair?

[sulphurdunn]

71. I absolutely

think it's disgusting for old men to color their hair, but for dyed hair Ronald Reagan would never have been President. It's OK for old women so long as their hair doesn't turn pink or blue and they don't use lilac talc. I particularly dislike lilac talc. Does that answer your question?

[ellenfl]

49. colleges have campus cops. didn't help at va tech. eom

[Flatulo]

70. Great. Then I guess that proves that no cop, ever, anywhere, ever stopped any crime in progress.

Lets send them all home and save a pile of money. Violent perps will be serenaded until they drop their weapons and see the error of their ways.

[Panasonic]

2. I'll give you another..

"They already tried that at Columbine in 1999."

[Cayenneman]

3. Math

Here are some numbers to think about the NRA's proposal:

98,817 schools in the US *
1400 hours in every school year
=
138,343,800 hours of police in schools
* $20 an hour for wage
=
$2,766,876,000 a year

With this country's inability to tax....
This money will have to come from gun registration fees.

OK...time to put your money where your mouth is!

[PA Democrat]

5. Welcome to DU, Cayenneman.

[kestrel91316]

8. And guns will have to be re-registered annually, just like cars.

I think maybe $500/gun per year would do it, just off the top of my head. But I wouldn't argue if it were $1000.

[BlueNoteSpecial]

17. Damn Straight

I am required, by law, to re-register my vehicle yearly, the same should be true with any and all firearms. I'm required, by law, to have my drivers license renewed every four years, so should every CCW holder. (If a firearm owner is caught carrying without a CCW permit, mandatory felony charges should be brought against said owner.) I'm required, by law, to purchase state minimum liability insurance for each, and every motor vehicle I own, so every single firearm owner should be required, by law, to purchase liability insurance, for every single firearm owned. The more you own, the more you pay...period. We also need MANDATORY registration of EVERY firearm owned by ALL citizens, with felony charges for failure to register weapons. The insanity must cease.

[JimDandy]

44. Good points. n/t

[libdem4life]

73. Yes. Yes and Yes. Irony that there are the same amount of cars as guns in the US.

Glad to see someone else mentioning this. I've been kind of made fun of...not that I care. There are many appropriate correlations...not the least of which is WE CAN DO IT.

[BlueNoteSpecial]

82. Being made fun of...

...is a recurring theme here...,there, and everywhere. The pissing matches, the petty bitching, arguing, and belching / spewing. America(ns) would rather paint the porch post red, focusing on the post, rather than the porch...,rotting away, falling apart, unable to function. The porch>>> a metaphor of "truth, justice, and the American way", and I'm just a naive schmuck?, to be laughed at, ridiculed, and derided? Well, maybe so, yet I'm one of Us who sees the porch, and am willing to at least make an attempt to rebuild what we all know to be broken. Now then, where is my vinyl copy of "Saturday Night Special"?, I needs me some 12 gauge guitar licks!

[libdem4life]

86. Analogy and metaphor are common ways of teaching...getting across a difficult

or new concept. Jesus, as did most Master Teachers, used it a lot as his Message was way before His time, and apparently ours, as well. I like the porch analogy.

[Flatulo]

30. I guess you're ok with only the wealthy having guns then? nt

[Bohunk68]

38. I don't recall reading

where it was wealthy people going around shooting little kids. Red Herring.

[LAGC]

39. This latest shooter was upper-middle class.

WAY upper middle-class.

[kwassa]

48. I think household income of $250,000 is beyond upper middle class.

[Squinch]

40. I am OK with the idea of a gun having a high cost to the user. It already has a high cost

to the rest of us. And let's not forget: for the vast majority of "responsible gun owners," guns are nothing more than a HOBBY. The lack of our ability to control criminals' access to guns is mostly due to the gun HOBBYISTS fighting all gun control and screaming that their liberty is at stake. If the math in Cayenneman's and Rustydog's above posts are correct, then what the NRA is suggesting is that the rest of us pay 5 billion dollars a year for someone else's hobby. The non-wealthy can't afford that either.

[kestrel91316]

58. It would mean a LOT less guns. And of course the ones who could afford them

would be highly unlikely to go around robbing the poor.

Look, the way I see it, the people who are highly motivated to own lots of guns must surely be able to work enough to pay for them, right? Otherwise they are obviously just lazy parasites wanting a free ride.

We can't allow that.

[Flatulo]

63. If we were discussing anything but guns, this would be considered a R/W talking point.

"...must surely be able to work enough to pay for them, right? Otherwise they are obviously just lazy parasites wanting a free ride."

In other words, the working poor are just lazy and unmotivated. If you want to be wealthy, just work harder.

I'm just curious why such a regressive measure seems OK with you. I would think a more fair system would be an excise tax proportional to the value of the weapon. A small revolver formself-defense would be affordable to a blue collar worker, but if you want to keep a Sig-Sauer .40 cal semi-auto, you pay more.

[MotherPetrie]

81. Fewer people who can get 'em the better

[JimDandy]

42. Well that's a bit much.

I could see $50-$100/gun, depending on type, and $10/magazine. With 300 million guns, that's at least 15-30 Billion in new revenue.

[kestrel91316]

59. I disagree. We need fees on gun ownership to be high

enough to both pay for all the consequences to society of gun ownership and also discourage the average person from owning them.

IMHO that should include paying the costs of prosecuting and imprisoning people who use guns in crimes.

[Flatulo]

64. You'll only punish the innocent. People who are living outside of the law will neither register

or pay taxes on their guns. They're already illegally in possession of them, so why should they come clean?

[uponit7771]

85. +1

[Mz Pip]

11. THe training needs to be factored in as well

Also benefits and I think a well paid professional should earn more than $20 and hour.

[rustydog]

13. I make over 20 dollars an hour as an unarmed hospital secuirty officer

an armed law enforcement officer would command 30 to 40-dollars an hour minimum.

[yardwork]

45. Brings it up to $10 billion or so. Every year.

[yardwork]

43. The costs would be about twice as high, actually.

If the guards are paid $20 per hour, the actual employment cost would be about twice that. If the guards are full time, they will be eligible for benefits. There will be administrative costs in any case. We're looking at $6 billion dollars or so to put an armed guard in every school.

Six billion dollars. Who is going to pay for that?

And do we have the 138 million hours of police capacity? I thought that many jurisdictions were having trouble hiring enough qualified police officers. Where are 138 million more hours going to come from? George Zimmermans?

[yardwork]

46. Welcome to DU, Cayenneman. Good post!

[Uncle Joe]

4. LaPierre and his ilk just want a domestic arms race, they don't care anymore about

people paying higher taxes for police and eventually swat teams in every school than the military industrial complex cares about everyone paying higher taxes to support an over-sized, empire straddling military budget.

Thanks for the thread, Stinky The Clown.

[BainsBane]

6. No way the NEA goes for this

They spoke out against this idea earlier in the week. Teachers are the most unionized profession in the country. I don't see this happening in most places.

[Fire Walk With Me]

7. "Gun culture power grabs" and "police state" are two more.

SHAME on them for using the deaths of children to push their sick agenda.

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. Or, "What do the children want?" Because no one is asking them.

I can't imagine that an environment crawling with militarized, machine-gun bearing soldiers would be very pleasant whatsoever.

[Flatulo]

31. Children can't make an informed decision about matters of such import. That's why

we don't let them smoke, drink, or drive cars.

[Fire Walk With Me]

50. You completely overlook that they are fully capable of being frightened into trauma by guns

and by the adult cue that things are definitely not safe; bad people are around, perhaps nearby, looking to kill them. Children respond to the cues we send, and they have fully-formed emotions. That coupled with yet-to-be-developed reason, are all the more likely to respond with fear.

[Flatulo]

55. I dunno, I taught my kid to respect the police

and he has no fear of them.

[Leopolds Ghost]

65. Depends, what is the purpose of all those police?

Most people assume they are there to protect them (those with privilege) from the dangers posed by those less fortunate, and the statistics of police placement (where they are and are not posted and what they respond to rapidly) seem to bear that out.

[Mz Pip]

10. Agreed

Did he say they NRA would pay for the hiring, training and salaries and benefits? I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer.

[Chorophyll]

12. Yep. nt

[iandhr]

14. AMEN

[Justin_Beach]

15. Guns cost the public $644 each anyway ...

From Atlantic Wire:

But every gun carries another sort of price, according to Bloomberg, which took the total costs associated with gun-related violence (about $174 billion, according to an aggregate of government data by the Maryland-based Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation) and divided them by the number of guns in circulation (some 270 million, per data compiled by the U.N.), and came up with $644 per legally-owned gun. That covers the "work lost, medical care, insurance, criminal-justice expenses and pain and suffering" associated with gun violence, and might be one to think on over the holidays as the post-Newtown gun debate rages on.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/12/human-cost-each-gun-644/60245/

So, if they want armed security too, $1000 per firearm would not be unreasonable.

[AngryOldDem]

18. Or would he support a stiff hike in sales tax specifically for guns and ammo?

If he believes what he says, he should.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

29. Thers already an additional 10-11% excise tax on ammo/guns.

[AngryOldDem]

67. Not high enough.

If we as a society aren't willing to solve this problem, then we need to have the financial means to clean up its carnage, especially if Wayne gets his way.

[pnwmom]

20. Here's another one:

There was an armed deputy at Columbine High.

A lot of good that did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022049110

[Stinky The Clown]

53. There was an army of cops at VA Tech.

[HiPointDem]

22. a police state won't protect us from the police state, either. to those for whom it matters.

[toby jo]

23. They should have to pay a 'clean-up' fee

the blood and guts and ER visits and funerals and lost funds to families if a breadwinner or 'bereavement' pay if any other member. How about a separate fund for college for the children of their victims while we're at it.

I like the idea above about carrying insurance - good one.

"Why is the idea of a gun used to protect our president good, but the idea of using guns to protect our children bad?" LaPierre

Gee , I dunno, buddy, maybe because we just don't think of our kids as high-target, high-profile type people?
They're little kids, going to school, learning their ABCs'.

Maybe if you whack job wanna be Rambos hadn't polluted our culture with this kind of toxicity our kids could just go to school?

30 people died today from gun violence in our country

[Bucky]

24. Come on, you know they already plan to pay for it by cutting funding to Big Bird

Now that Elmo's gone, I'm sure the funding is already halfway covered.

[backscatter712]

25. I can kill it with one word: Math.

Stinky was alluding to that word in the OP.

[ThoughtCriminal]

26. Tax Guns and Ammunition

And wait for their explanation for why that is not acceptable.

[AngryOldDem]

69. You know it.

All the bullshit about infringing on Second Amendment rights, blah, blah, blah.

If only they would get as stirred up over Sandy Hook, Aurora, Virginia Tech, Columbine, any day of the week in Chicago...the list goes on and on.

GOTTA HAVE THOSE GUNS!

Guns are a public health hazard and should be treated as such. Raise the money through taxes to clean up their mess, if we aren't going to do anything more constructive about them.

[earthside]

27. And HUGE government.

A federal or federally financed agency of armed school police officers (one in each public and private school) would also create a bigger level of government than the current Department of Homeland Security.

[countryjake]

28. That's a good comeback, but they've already been prepped...

with an answer by the rightwingers (NRA-ILA?) who are stoking this gun-nut paranoia. I had a rather heated confrontation with a guy in front of our post office, a man who hates any taxes more than anything on earth, and when I tossed that suggestion to him, his answer was a rambling, hysterical harangue about the damage that public schools have done to our country...he wants them all shut down, privatized, to put the liberals out of the "brainwashing business".

There really is no good way to politely refute many of those "knuckle-draggers", not when they'd just as soon shoot you as to look at you. My simpler solution is to call the authorities after the situation I found myself in this week. I reported that guy for having an unusually aggressive and belligerent attitude, so as to get him on record as someone who probably should not be allowed to possess a gun safe in his home, containing more than twenty of his favorite "toys".

[Flatulo]

32. Don't be surprised if the cops jotted your name down too for wasting their time.

Seriously. You called the cops on this guy? I had an uncle who called the cops on everyone he didn't like. They put my uncle on the 'pay no mind' registry.

[countryjake]

56. It was our Postmaster who recommended the report...

as she has had previous troubles with that asshat, herself. People in my rural area are well aware of the guy's unstable and often threatening attitude.

I've called the sheriff exactly three times in the over three decades that I've resided here, so any list that they may have me on is not something I'm too worried about. On the other hand, gun-toting, spittle-flying, rabid right wingnuts are most certainly a concern!

[Flatulo]

57. Ah, well if he's a well-known crank, then he's probably on their radar. One outcome of last weeks

horror is that people may be less reluctant to notify the cops if a person is giving off violent vibes. This will be especially tough for parents, but given the fairly wide availability of weapons of destruction, we have to change our attitudes about doing so, privacy be damned.

[regnaD kciN]

33. Nah, they'll just say "get rid of welfare cheaters - that'll pay for it."

[valerief]

34. No, no, no, no, no. They'll just fire a teacher to pay for the cop.

That's how the knuckledraggers do it.

[Initech]

74. Sounds like a cold hearted conservative asshole thing to do.

[spanone]

35. sounds like mr lapierre wants to start another huge bureaucracy and sell tons of guns

well, that's what he gets paid to do.

[Taverner]

36. How about - we already HAVE cops in schools!

I mean, fuck - has this guy ever seen a fucking modern HS?????

[el scorcho]

41. tax the shit outta guns and use the proceeds to fund mental healthcare!!

Add a 100% tax to the purchase of all firearms to fund additional police and access to mental healthcare resources.
Our nation is in crisis due to easy access of firearms, not enough access to mental healthcare resources and too few law enforcement personnel.

In the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary school massacre the NRA has called for stationing armed police at each public school to provide protection for our children.

We propose a 100% tax on the purchase of all firearms and ammunition, the proceeds shall be used to strengthen the mental healthcare system nationwide and hire 250,000 new police personnel to guard our schools.

Petition:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/add-100-tax-purchase-all-firearms-fund-additional-police-and-access-mental-healthcare-resources/RMxBLK9S?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

[Matariki]

47. Oh, I'm sure they could just cut some programs to pay for it.

Like the arts, or band, or lab equipment, or books.

[no_hypocrisy]

51. How'd Kent State work out?

[Fresh_Start]

52. Absolutely, tax guns and ammunition enough to hire 250,000 additional security personnel for schools

that ought to put the cost on the people who create the expense.

[obxnacy]

54. obxnacy

restaurants, movie theaters, grocery stores - armed clerks, waiters, etc.???? paid guards everywhere? how stupid can the NRA get?

[ChoralScholar]

60. I taught in Harrison, Arkansas

and we had a Harrison Police Department officer in every building in the district. Four elementary schools, a middle school, a junior high, and a high school - each of which had their officer's salary paid half by the school district and half by the city.

It was a great program, and I'm glad the district and city were willing to pay for it. There are a lot of intangibles that I think made it worthwhile; not the least of which was improving relationships between students and the police.

But it's not the answer to what happened at Sandy Hook. We had a great officer in our school, and he wore kevlar and carried a gun - but it's a big campus, and he might not have been able to stop an intruder with an assault weapon before many students were injured or killed. It's only a guy with a handgun, not Superman.

[Skittles]

61. or this one, posted on another thread

[Kennah]

62. Take the money from the Defense Budget, since it's for defense.

I'll take my chances that the North Koreans won't really invade Spokane.

[eShirl]

66. NRA's solution is the plot from "Kindergarten Cop"

[kydo]

68. We have had cops at schools for 20+ years

They just don't stand at the gates with bushmasters. The cops are usually inside do educational stuff with the kids. But they are there.

[libdem4life]

75. Yes. Some people just ass-u-me. The evolution of the friendly, beat cop on the streets of Small

Town. They aren't even Nazis, either, and the kids aren't traumatized. They are on-site first responders. The kids love it...epescially when the fire trucks or police cars or EMT vans show up for the kids to walk through. It's the most popular event on the school ground. Hell, it's part of every early childhood curriculum ... Helpers in Our Town.

And the days when we had to teach kids to kick and scream and bite when a Bad Person tried to get them to do Bad Things...it was not pleasant...just for the fact we had to do it...society evolves and not always in a good way. But teachers, parents and kids deal with it...we have to.

Duck and Cover was for earthquakes. The kids looked forward to it. Same for Fire Drills...yeah, a break from school. Then we introduced the Friendly Crossing Guards...even though we have pedestrian walkways, blinking lights, etc....to protect against the occasional idiot behind a wheel.

Now, Officer Friendly/AKA trained and open carrying local community member and Security Guard ... has come to be with us, on the play ground, in the lunch room, for special assemblies, for sports events, to help out the teachers and the Principal. And please have Mom bake 2 extra cupcakes for your birthday party...our Friendly Officers love cupcakes.

And one more thing...bullies and bullying will end.

It's not that hard.

And the NRA will pay for it all !!!

Too many delicate flowers around here.

[MostlyAmused]

78. bullying will end?

Bullying will end?

I can't keep up here. I thought the armed cop was the eagle-eyed marksman guarding every entry point, ready to take down Bushmaster-wielding intruders before they can wreak havoc.

He's supposed to do that AND eliminate bullying in the halls and on the playground?

How much are we paying him for all that, and does he have to buy his own superhero cape?

[Tom Ripley]

72. Ammo Tax

[Historic NY]

76. First its hiring cops for school ...

it won't be one, most schools are large rambling mazes of rooms on various levels...then the building will need hardening (security) alarms, cameras, etc. pretty soon were putting up guard towers for the cops and barbed & concertina wire....

[JohLast]

84. New schools are being built with harden walls, doors and they do have alarms and cameras.

The middle school by my house has about 500 students with somewhere around 100 cameras on campus. The football field does have concertina wire on top of the fence, it's to keep people out, but it is there.

[Historic NY]

79. Suddenly the NRA is expert in school security & design.

We don't do Breitbart here....

[xfundy]

80. Last I heard, they're framing it as "volunteers."

So, some idiot with a gun thinks that should give him "respect."

Growing up, I knew several wanna-be cops who couldn't pass the requirements to be a police officer, or just wanted an excuse to feel better than others. Skulking around, looking for ways to "catch" people who were, for the most part, minding their own business. One got a car the same model as the cops had, mounted a spotlight on his door, was a very strange person no one wanted to be around. Craved authority.

The type of person, or one type, would be those who crave situational authority and go out of his/her way to be a total asshole to students, be a hindrance to teachers/staff, and just a miserable sort to have around.

Bad, bad idea.

[JohLast]

83. Everyone does understand that we already have armed security and police officers in schools, right?

Some school districts have their own police departments.