an armed guard in every school? say...how'd that work out at Columbine High School.

[boomer55]

oh thats right it didnt.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/21/columbine_armed_guard_colorado_shooting_shows_that_nra_s_shield_program.html

[Lizzie Poppet]

1. If something ever fails, that means it will never work?

Gosh, might as well strip the airbags out of my car...

[Rex]

3. Why would you do that to a car? Do they make cars just to kill people

I don't think so. Guns are made to kill people, cars are made to transport people. That canard is useless.

[Lizzie Poppet]

10. Wow, way to completely miss the point.

Cars are irrelevant, save in that they contain one of the objects used in the analogy. Guns are also secondary to the actual point being made. The analogy is between airbags, intended to save lives, and an armed guard...also intended to save lives. The implied assertion is because in the Columbine incident the armed guard didn't save lives, that armed guards at schools are a waste of time. Well, airbags fail to save lives in a rather significant number of accidents per year...are they likewise useless? Obviously not.

What I was doing was pointing out that basing the assessment of the utility of a security measure on a single incident is absurd. Got it now?

[Rex]

14. I missed nothing, people that use the car argument have already lost.

Cars can individually save the lives of the people in the car at all times (that is what the airbags are for). Armed guards have no such guarantee and could also be a danger if a perp gets them down and gets their gun!

YAY! Now the perp has two guns!

Your comparison is flawed imo.

[Lizzie Poppet]

15. Actually, you're still missing it.

Once again, my point is that using a single example of a failed precaution as an argument against all such precautions is poor reasoning. Select a different analogy if you like, and try not to get bogged down in arguments not actually being made this time.

[boomer55]

16. So

Do you want me to provide you instances where armed guards didn't work?

[Lizzie Poppet]

17. Nope.

Because there are also instances where they do. Why do you think banks, courthouses,etc. have them? It's not a situation that will ever allow a (legitimate) claim that they do or do not work...because both are true. It's not either/or.

Do I think they're a good idea at schools? Not really. But I think that for reasons other than the fact that it didn't help at Columbine.

[libdem4life]

2. Well, how has TSA worked out for air travel? Or federal marshalls on many airline flights?

No more shoe bombers...no more 9-11...I'd say, aside from being forced to prove a negative, that given the statistics, it's worked pretty well.

And I don't think any kid has been "terrorized" by looking up at a friendly law enforcement officer. In fact, especially elementary school kids, they are looked upon as friends and helpers. That's what they are taught in their reading books.

[Toronto]

4. Except that the airlines pay for the air marshalls, not the tax payer

many of the schools in the US can barely pay for teachers, let alone security

[raquel69]

7. Our kids & babies are worth it

I would be willing to pay more in taxes for improved safety at schools. Someone suggested bullet-proof windows and doors. I think that might help.

[Toronto]

12. At the risk of making the schools look more like penitentiaries

the kids would have to be protected while outside as well. Perhaps 8 ft concrete block walls surrounding the school grounds with motion detectors on the top (to alert the school if anyone scales the walls) and iron gates that are locked when school is in session would work. You'd need an intercom at the gate, as well as a camera there and several others monitoring the wall, but at least the kids wouldn't be vulnerable at recess.

[libdem4life]

20. Nor will the taxpayer pay for what is coming...it's out of the gun owner's pocket.

Guaranteed.

[Bukherst]

5. Spam deleted by OKNancy (MIR Team)

[raquel69]

6. Reportedly Columbine guard called in sick that fateful day

http://www.trutv.com/conspiracy/in-the-shadows/columbine/gallery.all.html?curPhoto=13

So he was not a factor if the info at the above link is correct. Eric & Dylan would have targeted him first IMO. They planned it all out.

[boomer55]

11. no I think you're mistaken

As a CNN report describes, Gardner was eating lunch when he got a call from a custodian that he was needed in the school’s back parking lot. A few minutes later, he encountered Harris and the two exchanged gunfire. Harris was not hit and ran back inside the school. At that point, “Gardner called for additional units to respond to the south parking lot of Columbine High School. … While he was on the radio calling for assistance, five other Jefferson County deputies already were on their way, arriving only minutes after the first report of a ‘female down’ at Columbine High School.” Later, Gardner saw Harris again, through a broken window. Once again, he fired. Once again, he didn’t hit him.

[raquel69]

13. I was just posting

what I read online. I don't know if it is true. Do you have a link for your report? I never heard about a guard being present at Columbine until this week. Even if there was one, he would have been no match for Eric & Dylan with their sophisticated weapons & ammo. They would have taken him out first.

[hlthe2b]

22. It is not true.. you are propagating NRA propaganda and you ought to correct your post...

Here, from the "horses mouth" (the actual armed officer there that day assigned to the school:

Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo., Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him:

Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.

After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other Sheriff’s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot with me."

The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but didn't stop him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html

I will watch with interest to see if you have the integrity to correct your very erroneous post. That you cite a conspiracy site for your "justification" and source is really beyond the pale.

[Walk away]

8. My tiny town went to the large expense of putting a Police Officer in our schools.

About two years ago we voted extra officers for our police force to act as security in our schools. We looked at outside security but in order to get any real protection you need the police, not some old retired guy or a mall cop. I voted for it for one reason only. I couldn't stand to think of someone's child being hurt because I was too cheap to kick in the bucks. That said, it cost's a lot of money! You aren't just talking salary. Benefits, bonuses and paperwork etc will hit your tax bill hard.

How many schools are in your town? What about the religious ones? How many officers will it take to secure your schools? You could easily be talking several hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars a year for a town's tax base to absorb. Do I think there is any price to high to protect a child? No, of course not. I am already paying some of it willingly. But how effective is it really?

[Doremus]

18. It's pretty damned ineffective in my opinion.

Our district has had an armed cop in each of our local schools since Columbine. If something were to happen, the odds are very slim that the officer will be exactly where he's needed at the exact moment he's needed. Anything short of absolute perfection in the timing diminishes the odds exponentially that the armed person will make one scintilla's difference to the outcome.

[Walk away]

19. I agree and it doesn't address day care centers and day camps.

You really would have to have armed police officers all over the place. Do you think that the NRA will have a special training program for kids at Gymboree?

[applegrove]

9. Like Michael Moore said: Adam's mother had guns for protection and

look at what that got her.

[libdem4life]

21. Well, there you have it. All the lights aren't green, so let's just stay home.