General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSmall penises are hardly the main area of male insecurity
The whole thing about men with guns or sports cars or whatever compensating for small penises is a dumb cliche.
What gun owners are likelier to be insecure about are things like not having money, not being very educated, fear of abandonment, fear of being laughed, fear of being unable to provide for their family, protect their family, be respected by their family, to be as powerful as they perceived their father to be when they were little boys (an impossibility, when you think it through) and an inability to control anxiety-producing social change.
Oh... and the knowledge of their own mortality.
Thank you for your time.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)presumed genital inadequacy than it is to imagine them as frightened and insecure in an increasingly harsh world.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)I would add basic control of one's environment to your list --
one example: as a patriarchal thing the members of the family should obey and that doesn't happen like it used to.
another example: being able to react to and survive events in which you are swept up. THere is a reason the zombie meme is so strong.
As you note, it is crudely associated with anatomy, which is unfortunate. The insecurities you mention are, of course, a large part of what the successful Bushmaster "Man Card" campaign was playing to.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)the problem is that I associate with these people. I see their insecurities but they are also woefully uninformed and prefer to keep it that way. Look at the lyrics to half the country music songs out there where being a "simple boy" is taken as a strength. There was a time for that, but 60 years ago. Now we need people who are engaged, who understand risk and who actually understand the forces arrayed against them.
It's hard to sympathize with that at times.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)survivalist.
there's no neat storyline, albeit people like them -- & tend to construct them according to their own biases.
hence, the 'working class white males,' 'inner-city black males,' etc who are supposed to be the big *problems* re guns.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)...and women about perceived failures as women.
Most male insecurity is very much about being less than "a man" in some way. And guns appeal to that... being feared, projecting action at a distance, being self-reliant, being protector of family and land.
I would hardly be surprised to find that feelings of inadequacy are more common (not universal--more common) among gun enthusiasts, but dick-size is an offensive and intellectually limiting metaphor for such inadequacy.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)those of us with micropenis take umbrage at that insinuation.
Bucky
(54,014 posts)with nanopenis all laugh at the pathetic umbrage you micropenii-types lord over us.
waddirum
(979 posts)does it come in different colors?
flying rabbit
(4,634 posts)only applies to females on DU.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Bucky
(54,014 posts)"Successfully mimicking your father's authoritarianism from your childhood" jokes just take too damn long to set up.
renie408
(9,854 posts)
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)renie408
(9,854 posts)
spin
(17,493 posts)I hope that you don't believe the common stereotype that gun owners are illiterate, uneducated rednecks.
Many gun owners are well educated professionals. Firearms are not cheap nor is ammunition. People who own even a small collection of firearms usually have a fair amount of disposable income.
You may live in a gun unfriendly area of the nation where firearm owners are laughed at but I live in Florida. When I go to a doctor's office the doctor and I do often talk about firearms. We discuss the types we own and our hobby. At the large company I worked at before I retired more than one half of my co-workers owned firearms and a high percentage had concealed weapons permits. I've known preachers, engineers, plumbers, carpenters, lawyers, university professors and teachers, etc, etc who owned firearms including "assault weapons." Few in Florida look down on or laugh at a firearm owner simply because he enjoys shooting. I should also point out that gun owners being polite do not criticize or laugh at those who chose not to own firearms.
I retired and moved to a poor rural county in northern Florida where the gun ownership is even higher. Hunting deer and hog is very popular in this area and almost everybody has a rife or shotgun in their home and even the women enjoy hunting. While the median income is lower in this area than in the Tampa Bay Area where I lived before, many people stock up their freezers with deer meet during the season. On the off season they frequently hunt feral hog which are considered a pest as they are not a native species and do considerable damage to the environment. When properly prepared hog meat is very tasty.
Gun owners are a far more diverse group of people than you imagine.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)I did not mean to say that gun owners are poor or uneducated. Some people who make far more than I do feel shame about themselves for not making more. A genius who grew up hearing he was dumb will have core insecurities along those lines despite being very smart.
Some men of all stations in life are jealous, speaking to an insecurity.
And so on.
All I was trying to say is that even if one assumes owners of certain things are compensating (already far too general an assumption to be useful), it is still offensive and stupid to say they must have a small dick. Penis size is not, in fact, the primary driver of male insecurities. Yet people say it here every day as if there was something clever in it.
In fact, the ubiquitous internet penis enlargement ads are themselves playing on a compensatory effect -- the sad soul ordering such bogus treatments are not doing so to make their penis bigger for its own sake so much as they are in hopes that having a bigger penis will make them a better man and assuage their other insecurities.
spin
(17,493 posts)I have noticed that some people do accuse males who own firearms are compensating for an inadequacy of the size of their penis. Males that own high performance cars or Hummers are often accused of the same problem.
I sometimes wonder if those who make such accusations are suffering from an inadequacy of their own but the reality is more likely that insulting others who have different interests than your own is fun.
Of course being a supporter of gun ownership and a gun owner I have often been insulted in such a fashion. I don't take offense but find it somewhat humorous. It does get old after a while and I always compliment someone who comes up with an original insult.
Unfortunately it's hard to expect any progress on this important issue when both sides devote most of their time to insulting each other.
rainlillie
(1,095 posts)I know a few gun-owners, some are a-holes some are not. I think you're right about them being a diverse group. It's never wise to paint any group with the same brush.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)the old saying goes 5% of the population reserves the right to ignorance..it really isn't much higher than that in my experience..the number I disagree with is closer to 50%, that doesn't make the 50% I disagree with stupid...thinking it does is in itself naive.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)That is the core demographic. It is a stereotype of course. Nate Silver has an interesting essay on his blog on gunner demographics that avoids the reductionism in my headline.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/
spin
(17,493 posts)
It will come as no surprise to those with a passing interest in American politics that Republicans are more likely to own guns than Democrats. But the differences have become much more stark in recent years, with gun ownership having become one of the clearest examples of the partisan polarization in the country over the last two decades.
This was not news to me as during the effort to pass the first assault weapons ban many Democrats changed party affiliation. While they still agree with me on many issues they absolutely refuse to vote for a Democrat. Often they have a considerable amount of money tied up in their hobby and honestly fear that the Democrats will ban some or all of their firearms. These gun owners are definitely one issue voters.
About 35 percent of Democratic voters age 65 and older reported having a gun in their home, against about 25 percent of those ages 18 to 29. But gun ownership rates bore little relationship to age among Republican voters, and were constant at about 55 percent among all age groups. That might suggest that gun ownership will continue to decline among Democrats while holding steady among Republicans, further increasing the partisan gap.
Recently I started to suspect this. I'm a Democrat who is 66 years old and many of my older relatives who were also Democrats owned firearms. It does appear that the trend among the younger Democrats is to strongly support gun control and to not own a firearm. I will agree that it looks like this trend will continue.
In other respects, the profile of gun owners defies some of the stereotypes that urban liberals might assign to them. For example, despite President Obama’s comments in 2008 about voters who “cling to guns and religion,” the two qualities are not strongly correlated. Slightly more than 40 percent of voters who said they attended church weekly or more often reported having a gun in their home, about the same percentage as among those who attend religious services just a few times a month or a few times a year. And gun ownership rates are highest among the middle class, rather than the poor. Households making $50,000 to $100,000 per year were slightly more likely to own guns than those that made a little bit less or a little more. (However, gun ownership rates are inversely correlated with educational attainment.)
I know a lot of gun owners since I live in Florida. Some are very religious but most are not and rarely enter a church expect for events like weddings. In fact I know a good number of agnostics and atheists who own firearms.
Note: all excerpts from http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/
gtar100
(4,192 posts)No different than the arena of religion or (aghast!) conservatives. Most intelligent, thoughtful, and considerate gun owners probably prefer to spend their precious time on earth actually living their lives rather than obsessing over the nonsense spewed by the fanatics. But that same sentiment is probably why the Alex Jones and the like get more microphone time. Until the moderate, middle way can actually gain the upper hand in public discourse, we will continue to give attention to the nutters far more than they really deserve.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)women experience all the things you mentioned, too.
We need to have a national discussion on the definition of masculinity in our culture & probably most cultures around the world. The aggressive, independent, conquering hero type is destroying every good & beautiful thing on this planet. Couple it with capitalism's rape & pillage philosophy & you have a hellish match.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)achieve the perceived optimums of their gender.
When asking why some men buy guns, one could ask why some women buy shoes. It is why people in a consumer society buy most things they buy -- to feel better about themselves as human beings, and for human beings that usually means exemplars of their sex.
I am not suggesting that men should buy guns, merely that the stock "he must have a small package" line is about on par with the arrested development 30 year old frat-boy saying that a woman who is "a bitch" must be sexually frustrated.
tama
(9,137 posts)IIRC Jung felt and wrote that the hero archetype you describe pretty much self-destroyed in Europe during the world wars. But it has survived better in America, which (outside DU) considered post-heroic Europe negatively effeminate and soft especially before and after the Dubya Iraq invasion.
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/jung.html
The Hero archetype overlaps with Warrior, but Warrior is closer to Monk or Shaman in willingness and ability to face and conquer fears and let go of ego control, but unlike Monk lives in the world and offers his compassion and inner strength for causes of justice and beauty and service.
Hero-archetype can and should go and be forgotten, and its masculine animus aspect can be repclaced with Warrior - practice of Eastern martial arts and their philosophical background is a good example of what Warrior means. Also it needs to be stressed that masculine and feminine aspects like yin and yang should not be confused with gender, individuals can develop both aspects regardless of their sex.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)I think when people take the big guns / small dicks line, they're using the cultural metaphor more than making any real psychological accusation. We speak of men's egos as being about their genitalia, knowing that while that may be literally true for some, or in part for many, what we really mean is that men worry they are not powerful enough, effective enough, savvy enough, *violent* enough, because our culture has overemphasized the value of violent, assertive power.
Of course, if you're taking a shot (sorry, there's really no other word) at a ... male *gun rights enthusiast,* calling him Tiny Dick in the process of making your point is frankly a bonus for a lot of people, not that I condone it.
But we also all know there is meat on the bone in suggesting that a fixation on weaponry as a way to be more sort of survival-fit, which is what the hardcore pro-gun narrative is about, is tied to conservative ideals of manhood about being a military-type warrior that defends the tribe. The penis metaphors / jokes are understood to be part real psychology, part grossly distorted psychology as projected on patriarchal cultural, and part cheap shot, based on exactly all the same junk.
Which means, in passing, that it's actually spectacularly hypocritical to attack someone for being overly gun-gressive as a penis compensation issue, because you're relying on the same line of thinking that you're supposedly calling bullshit in order to pull off the insult.
Right? Or is that too obvious to even say? Because I do that sometimes. I know I do. And people just let me go on and on.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)necessary to post photo after photo guns. It's mind-numbing. What is the issue there?
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Some people post endless photos of things of which they are inordinately proud. But at least grandp[arents made a genetic contribution, albeit a contribution of genes they themselves didn't work for or improve. Though I guess there is pride in the fact their children survived to adulthood in order to make grandchildren.
What I have never gotten, about guns or anything else, is how one could take pride in owning a consumer good... something readily available in exchange for money.
Being proud of most things one buys is equivalent to being proud of having X amount in one's checking account. Might as well frame your bank statement.
I guess the idea is that you have the taste to buy the right car, or dress, or gun or couch... but I don't see it as that much of an accomplishment, compared to being able to wiggle ones ears, losing five pounds, or knowing the name of Space Ghost's monkey. (I don't know, myself... Space Monkey?)
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Maybe that's the angle here: a rather perverted sense that a gun is hardware art of some sort. I suppose craftsmanship could come into it, like an old sailing ship, perhaps.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)
jimlup
(7,968 posts)Just say'n
Response to jimlup (Reply #21)
Post removed
jimlup
(7,968 posts)But I'll bet they are not even aware of it.
renie408
(9,854 posts)But since we mostly put it on our faces, I am thinking it is insecurity about aging and fitting some ideal image of beauty.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)on their dicks. Doesn't diminish the connection.
renie408
(9,854 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)Best laugh of the day 
blueclown
(1,869 posts)The sexism in this thread towards men is disgusting. Those who have participated in it should be ashamed of themselves.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)Just look at those ads--you can't even avoid them! They started with old men (Bob Dole), and swiftly moved to younger and younger men. Same with the ads for the mostly made-up malady "Low-T" which apparently leaves you moping in the shadows at an ever-earlier age.
I understand that some men have a problem and that it hurts. And I am glad science found a solution. But nearly ALL men, regardless of age?
The greed of the drug peddlers wouldn't work nearly as well if there wasn't an awful lot of insecurity about penis-performance beneath the surface. Freud would also have something to say about the way this country fetishizes guns.
Hekate
renie408
(9,854 posts)Cialis and Viagra are for erectile dysfunction. Low T is fixed by using testosterone supplements that help make you all virile and shit. I think you can drive a motorcycle and line dance and stuff after you take the Low T stuff.
Hekate
(90,708 posts)Yeah, I know: different mechanisms, different drugs. Still.... oy.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I have a gun in my home for protection. Am I going to pull it on an intruder because I don't think I make enough money?
As for men...I assume you're talking about the ones who have guns for reasons other than protection. It's a hobby for some people. Nothing dark and sinister or pschological. Like bows and arrows are to some. You grow up around them, with others having guns as an interest, a hobby, you see it differently, maybe.
But of course some do have guns because it's considered a masculine thing, a power thing. Like some men started hunting because it's something manly men do where they come from. So it is that some men have guns, because it's something that men do, sometimes. (Although my father, a manly man if ever there was one, never had a gun, that I know of. And he didn't hunt, except he tagged along a couple of times. He was raised w/o a father so probably didn't have exposure to guns or knowledge of them.)
In some groups...like gangs, the criminal element, teens, it means you're cool and tough. It's also a tool of the trade.
I think little men with huge trucks are overcompensating for small penises, or for just being small all over. A need to feel bigger.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)think his penis was quite larger, larger than most in fact.
They tend to be very proud of them, think we should all be admiring them as often as possible.
Oh, and only a man could possibly think that women could suffer from "penis envy". Trust me, we don't.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Oops, did I just say that?
Personally, I admit I am a weak, meek man with low-T and a small unit. I NEVER talk to strange women, and even when I find one attractive, I am smart enough to know she doesn't want a loser like me around, much less see (if she can) my penis.
I'm far from proud of it - it actually keeps me on the edge of suicidal tendencies. But somehow I hope and pray that I am bothering the smallest possible number of women by hiding from them instead of trying to date them.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)but back when I was young, it was before AIDS. Before Herpes even. We had The Pill. Need I say more?
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Men's insecurities tend to make them turn on other people.
Yeah, it's a sweeping generalization, and of course there are exceptions, but it does apply in many cases.
renie408
(9,854 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I'm not sure I agree with it, but it's at least thought-provoking.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Yavin4
(35,441 posts)forming unions, and fighting for things like single payer healthcare, pensions, and vacation time. They don't buy guns and hope to control their lives through some kind of armed insurrection fantasy.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I am successful, well educated, and pretty damn confident. I am disabled. I live in a bad neighborhood and am home alone a lot. I am pushing 60 and I grew up with guns when just about everyone out in the country had one. I am not afraid of them. I am a good shot. I was raped long ago and being armed and a great shot is a good equalizer in my book. Shrug.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)It's a two step idiocy.
1) Everyone with a sports car, gun, speed boat, etc. is compensating...
That's already not true.
2) ...and what they are all compensating for is inadequate junk.
Turning an over-broad cliche into a farce. Piling simplistic upon simplistic.
I don't think *all* guns owners share any trait, except gun ownership.
But if a gun owner does happen to be motivated by feelings of inadequacy, those feelings ought not to be presumed to be about his wang.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)Just got edumacated about this today. Wow, you guys are pathetic. Let's SPECIFICALLY legislate against any firearms research. Just in case it might say something we don't want to hear.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)But one has to wonder why prosthetic penes rarely come in small sizes.
Just sayin'
moondust
(19,988 posts)Guns are an easy shortcut to getting instant respect and VIP treatment, albeit superficial.
Stand back everybody, it's the big guy with the big piece.
pscot
(21,024 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Does that mean I'm under-compensating for my penis size? 
Seriously though... most penises are average sized. I promise you.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)There are some interesting and understandable definitions of defense mechanism here - Defense Mechanisms
This one seems especially appropriate for a lot of folks lately:
Fantasy, when used as a defense mechanism, is the channeling of unacceptable or unattainable desires into imagination. This can protect ones self esteem as when educational, vocational or social expectations are not being met, one imagines success in these areas and wards off self condemnation.
blueclown
(1,869 posts)And very telling. If the same types of things were said about females and their body parts, this board would be in an uproar. I want every member of this forum who would be offended with female sexism to be offended by male sexism.
The double standard is nauseating and disgusting. I'd like to see some feminists take umbrage at this thread.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)
dawg
(10,624 posts)I remember what it was like being a teenage boy and still a virgin. I was insecure about everything .... my height, my looks, my social skills, my voice, and my penis. The first time I saw a porno, I was shocked and thought surely to God something must be wrong with me.
I know I'm probably not the only teenager ever to have felt that way.
But here's the thing. Fifty percent of those young men really do have penises that measure below the average, and probably 15% or so are noticeably smaller than average. And they aren't all conservatives, or gun enthusiasts, or bragging overcompensaters. Some of them are just nice people who have penises on the smaller end of normal.
But society tells them that they are basically worthless to women. That maybe a "good" girl will love them and put up with their lack of a "real" penis in order to be with a "good" man, but she'll always secretly long for something more.
Some guys have a real complex about this, and these jokes aren't funny to them. In fact, they are an insult that confirms their unrealistic fears. I don't really have a complex about this myself, so if you all want to assume I have a tiny, tiny penis - go right ahead.
What I really do have is sons. And I don't have any idea of how they are going to "measure up". But I don't want this society to get away with teaching them that the measure of their worth as a man is in any way related to the size of their penises.
Dash87
(3,220 posts)It's hypocritical to not want to have my body scrutinized, and then go and scrutinize another's.
I think the "gun nut" is actually born from a severe image problem. When I say "gun nut," I mean one who has an unhealthy, almost dangerous obsession with guns and the power they bring. These "gun nuts" believe that without their gun, they're nothing, so the gun restores their masculinity.
Of course, this is exactly the type of person that should not have a gun. They don't respect the gun right off the bat, making it more likely that they will do something stupid with that gun.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Carry on. 
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Mr. Frist provides observations with similar evidence to back them up.
cali
(114,904 posts)and actually it's rather a good cliche because it has some truth to it. When people are using it, they're largely using it as shorthand to refer to insecurity about the macho male identity.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Just sayin'
guardian
(2,282 posts)is rampant on DU and condoned.