The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun

[boston bean]

is banning the guns that give bad guys the tools to kill the maximim amount of innocent victims.

Make it illegal to sell, buy, privately own and possess semi auto weapons like the Bushmaster and high capacity drums/clips/magazines.

[JaneyVee]

1. Exactly, we know we will never fully eradicate gun violence, we just want to

shrink the violence down to a size we can drown it in a bathtub.

[boston bean]

2. the NRA's position is sick.

They say, we need guns to thwart bad guys, so everyone needs a gun.

They do not want to look at the possibility if these guns are not available we would have less of these shootings.

More guns, more shootings, it's quite obvious. It takes a twisted individual to think that everyone having a gun will make us safer. When the fact is more guns, cause more violence, and more access to guns cause deranged individuals easier access to guns.

[99Forever]

10. I like that.

Might I use it when one of the gun psychos trots the usual "the perfect is the enemy of the possible" meme out?

[RBrudzynski]

3. Wayne LaPierre's Bright Idea

NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre wants armed guards in every school. But an armed guard on scene was unable to prevent one of the worst school shootings in history.

Neil Gardner, a sheriff's deputy in Jefferson County, Colo was assigned to watch Columbine High School. He even ate lunch with the students so he could watch the school.

While in the parking lot outside the cafeteria, Gardner heard reports of a 'female down in the south lot.' He activated his siren and went to investigate.

After pulling his vehicle into the senior lot, he got out of his patrol car and heard a second call, 'Neill, there's a shooter inside the school.' Emergency responders were already on their way.

As Gardner exited his car he came face to face with Eric Harris, one of the teen shooters who had been firing into the west doors. Harris fired on Gardner 10 times with his rifle before the gun jammed.

Upon seeing Harris working with his gun, Gardner leaned over the top of his car and fired four times. He was 60 yards away. Though he momentarily thought he had hit him, seconds later Harris returned fire.

After their exchanged Harris went back into the building and Gardner radioed for backup.

Though Gardner stood his ground until backup arrived, and further exchanged gunfire with the shooters who were firing out of school windows, he was unable to stop Harris from murdering more students or himself.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2251762/NRA-condemned-astonishing-response-Sandy-Hook-massacre-calling-schools-arm-themselves.html#ixzz2FmwCqGQx

[geckosfeet]

4. Regulation is necessary. In some states high cap magazines are already illegal.

This was written after the Aurora massacre:

A Way Out of the Gun Stalemate

What kinds of measures might have helped prevent the Aurora massacre? Some have no connection with gun control: mental health outreach and screening might have detected that a doctoral student in neuroscience was headed into a dark corner of the mind. That might have resulted in his failing the background checks he passed when he bought his guns.

Another possibility: restrictions on the purchase of large volumes of ammunition. Who, besides a soldier in battle or a policeman in a siege, needs 6,300 rounds, or a 100-round "drum" magazine like the one in Mr. Holmes's AR-15 — a modified semiautomatic version of the military full-automatic M-16 — that allowed it to fire as fast as his finger could squeeze the trigger?

(The online ads for drum magazines make one’s skin crawl. On a site called Woot! a 100-round magazine was advertised for $99.95: "Just the ticket, should things really heat up and the lead needs to fly. Of course, this means less time spent reloading, and more time for shooting as fast as you can pull the trigger.&quot

A Way Out of the Gun Stalemate

[hack89]

5. Senator Feinstein has already said there will no confiscation.

Everyone gets to keep their present weapons. They just can't buy new ones.

The first AWB did the same thing - ownership was not banned. Just the manufacturing and selling of new guns.

[BlueStreak]

8. But what about selling existing assault weapons

Isn't that banned? And if so, what happens when a person dies? Does it just remain in the family?

Seriously it makes no sense to ban these things without at least an optional buy-back program where we destroy the damned things.

[hack89]

13. No. It is a import and manufacturing ban. Nothing more.

From the first AWB:

During the period when the AWB was in effect, it was illegal to manufacture any firearm that met the law's flowchart of an assault weapon or large capacity ammunition feeding device, except for export or for sale to a government or law enforcement agency. The law also banned possession of illegally imported or manufactured firearms, but did not ban possession or sale of pre-existing 'assault weapons' or previously factory standard magazines that were legally redefined as large capacity ammunition feeding devices. This provision for pre-ban firearms created a higher price point in the market for such items, which still exist due to several states adopting their own assault weapons ban.

[BlueStreak]

17. Feinstein jumped the gun (no pun intended)

She went off half cocked with a proposal that is so weak it would do more harm than good, allowing gun extremists to say "See I told you gun laws never work."

Biden will be writing the law the administration is behind. Hopefully it will ban all sales of these evil things.

[hack89]

25. They have been pushing this AWB for years

on the grounds that it was needed to prevent mass killing and make America safer. Do you expect them to now say that it actually did neither?

Biden is not going to undercut the credibility of Feinstein's and other congressional leaders.

[BlueStreak]

6. The point of the bans is not to "stop" anybody, but to reduce the carnage

The Tucson killer was only stopped when his 30-round magazine was empty and he had to switch magazines. If he could only get a 10-round magazine, then it stands to reason that he would have been stopped with 1/3 the mayhem. That is still a tragedy, but apparently that is the price we are willing to pay.

[hack89]

14. The proposed "ban" does not make possession of high capacity mags illegal

it merely prohibits the manufacture and sale of new ones. All pre-ban mags will be perfectly legal.

[BlueStreak]

16. Which is absurd.

Feinstein jumped the gun. Let's see what Biden comes up with. That is the law that the administration will push.

[datasuspect]

7. a cop or another thug usually stops a shooter

criminals will violate the law to acquire firearms.

any ban would have no effect on bad guys getting guns.

[RomneyLies]

11. By that argument, there should be no laws against murder.

The bad guys are going to ignore the law any way...

[datasuspect]

12. silly analogy

you can make the laws, but that doesn't mean criminals will abide by the law.

criminals break the law. it's what they do.

you can write all the laws you want in the world. not everyone is going to obey the law.

so your anticipated result may not be what you expect.

[RomneyLies]

15. Yep you're right.

Easiest solution is to take away the guns since the gun-huggers are blatantly disregarding that something must be done and are trying to stop anything from being done.

[Lizzie Poppet]

18. You think that's an "easy" solution?

As a great American philosopher said, "oh myyyy."

There would be nothing remotely easy about any attempt to "take away the guns" from tens of millions of American gun owners. In fact, it would almost certainly mark the end of the union as we know it. In a sense, I'm okay with that, as I think a break-up into a half-dozen or so regional polities is inevitable and desirable...but not like that. Not in violence and bloodshed...

[RomneyLies]

20. Since the gun-huggers are refusing to cooperate and help solve the problem

Yes.

All the gun huggers can do is say how this or that won't work.

Fine, lets simply turn all gun huggers into criminals.

It seems to be what they want, any way.

[Lizzie Poppet]

21. That doesn't answer the question, though.

I can't see how that's in any way, shape, or form an "easy" solution.

I think we're done here, though. Using insulting terms like "gun huggers" doesn't exactly give one confidence in your desire for civil discourse...

[RomneyLies]

22. Only returning the gun hugger's techniques

They call me a "gun grabber" when all I want is heavy regulation and licensing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

27. So two wrongs make a right?

Whatever...

[RomneyLies]

29. When they refuse to cooperate

the choices only become more draconian.

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. Leaving aside that many DO cooperate...

...I would point out that if the proposed steps become TOO draconian, they will either never be enacted in the first place, or they will be resisted (and probably violently resisted). That possible good would that accomplish?

[RomneyLies]

31. No matter what is put into place, I guarantee there will be some level of violent resistance.

The only way for there not to be is to put purely cosmetic idiocy in place that has no effect on the millions of unregulated guns already out there or to simply do nothing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

32. I don't agree.

I think there are several additional regulations that most gun owners would accept (and in many cases happily support). Expanding background check requirements to all gun sales would be just one example, and I don't consider that cosmetic.

I do think that any action taken against "assault weapons" will be purely cosmetic, just like last time...and will have the same effect (that is to say, none). It's a "feel good" law. I expect a serious attempt to ban sales of new high-capacity magazines, too...and it may even succeed. I predict a roughly similar effect on gun-related violence...

[RomneyLies]

33. To be effective, all guns must be registered and licensed

That would include all guns currently in existence.

Anything else would be ineffective.

So yeah, there will be some to resist that violently, even though things would be well regulated as required by the second amendment.

I do agree, simply renewing the old AWB is tanamount to doing nothing.

[Lizzie Poppet]

35. I support licensing.

I have reservations about requiring what amounts to permission to exercise a constitutional right, but I think it falls under the heading of "reasonable regulation" and doesn't constitute an infringement. Of course, it has to be a "must issue" license for anyone meeting the legal requirements. I doubt anyone would violently resist such a measure (although many - including ALL career criminals, obviously - would ignore it).

I woudl also like to see proper security measures for firearms mandated by law. I don't mean everyone has to get a half-ton gun safe; that would place an insurmountable barrier to the poor. But I think reasonable measures could be written into law, and were that done, manufacturers would respond to the market for reasonably priced solutions. They'd probably be made by quasi-slave labor in China...but no solution is perfect. Such a measure should also include stiff penalties (like being rendered ineligible to be issued a gun license, although perhaps only for a period of time for an initial offense) if the weapon finds its way into unauthorized hands. Jail time if someone comes to harm. Owning a deadly weapon carries an implicit responsibility to secure that weapon, period.

[RomneyLies]

38. You can get a fire safe for under $50

That would be adequate for handguns, IMO.

See, we can agree on this shit. If only the same could be said of the politicians because I see the most likely scenario as being the same old same old silly bullshit that never works, and even that not making it through the House.

[Lizzie Poppet]

40. Excellent suggestion!

And I agree, re: having a good useful discussion that finds areas of agreement. Sadly, I also have to agree about the probable inertia and/or pointless grandstanding of our wonderful (*snerk*) political class.

[meow2u3]

42. Whoever calls you a "gun grabber" is using infantile, black-and-white thinking

Their immaturity along proves they're mentally incompetent if they equate regulating weapons with banning them outright.

Come to think of it, the black-and-white thinking is one of the Big Lies peddled by the NRA, designed for them to set themselves up as puppetmasters and kingmakers. As much as all this psycho talk makes us think they're crazy, those terrorists know exactly what they're saying and doing to promote fear itself and serve to intimidate politicians from making common-sense rules regarding firearms and to toe their sociopathic line.

[Skittles]

45. LOL

disturbing how you'll tolerate the occasional massacre but OMG DON'T CALL US ANY NAMES!!!

[Lizzie Poppet]

46. Glad you find that funny.

Or is it 'disturbing?' Seems a bit contrary, but I suppose everyone's sense of humor works differently. Personally I find utter logical disconnects like the one you posted funny.

But not particularly disturbing...

[Motown_Johnny]

9. The Tuscon shooting came to mind the moment I heard that insanity

The shooter was stopped by good guys without guns when he had to stop shooting to reload.

A nine year old girl was among the dead that day.


Bearing false witness about something like that incident is beyond my ability to comprehend.

I just don't understand how even that asshole can do such a thing.

[RomneyLies]

24. There was a good guy with a gun on the scene, too. He almost pulled his piece and fired.

He realized after it was over he would have shot the wrong person.

[Motown_Johnny]

41. he got there after it was over

but your point is well taken


a good guy with a gun is very likely to make things worse

[etherealtruth]

19. Oh dear God ...

I kept reading your post as: The only thing that stops a BALD guy with a gun
and thinking "WTF" is wrong with BB

After putting my glasses on, I agree with you completely!

[ellie]

23. Agreed

My husband had a good point yesterday about the original quote: the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. He said this forces the good guy to become a killer if he is shooting to kill a bad guy. Even in justified situations, e.g., the police in a shootout with a murderer, the good guy (cop) who killed the bad guy is going to need psychological counseling. Forcing good guys to become killers is their answer? The mind, it boggles.

[annabanana]

26. That quote of his sounded like a 9 year old boy. .

no more sophisticated or nuanced than that...

[Comatose Sphagetti]

28. Agreed. Hand-fed, single shot weapons only.

Make January 1, 2013, national mandatory turn in anything with a clip, magazine, cylinder, etc., day. Get caught and it's an automatic five years.

I've owned guns. The common good comes before my 'right' to own weapons of mass destruction.

Which makes me think...

If those in favor of banning sale and ownership of high ammo capacity firearms of any type starting referring to them as WMD's, which they are, it might help to turn public opinion.

[Logical]

37. Illegal and impossible! Scotus would now allow it!

[Dems to Win]

34. Sounds good. Please join the National Don't Wanna Get Shot By A Rifle Association.

Please help kick the thread to the front page

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022055101

Half of American homes do not have guns, yet we are at terrible risk from the lethal weapons in our neighbors' homes. Enough! Time for us to speak out.


That's why I created a petition to The United States House of Representatives, The United States Senate, and President Barack Obama, which says:

"Repeal the Second Amendment Now. This anachronistic, poorly worded amendment prevents us from passing real gun control measures that will be effective in stopping the ongoing gun slaughter. It should be no more a constitutional right to own a gun than to own a car."

Will you sign my petition? Click here to add your name:

http://signon.org/sign/repeal-the-second-amendment-6?source=c.fwd&r_by=5543184

[Logical]

36. It will NEVER appen!

[libdem4life]

39. When someone is ill, we don't tell them hang on until the newest drug is in. No. We diagnose and

treat their illness in the here and now with what we have. We do surgery, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but we don't fail to perform the surgery just because there is a chance it won't work or because there will be a better solution later. Meanwhile the new research continues, surgery capabilities progress, new medicines are created, and may be useful for this patient somewhere on down the line.

Same for elementary school violence. It is here...in our faces and hearts and a lot of funeral homes this week.

So, just because we can't take away all the 300,000,000 guns from the 60-80,000,000 owners many of them legal, in the next few days and months, which is magical thinking, real people have to come up with solutions that we can begin...now. For kids TODAY. There will be better mental health (more taxes) and school design (more taxes) and gun management (paid for by the gun industry)down the line, but we can't wait to act as a society.

[cantbeserious]

44. Yes - All True - However, We Can Begin The Process Of Confiscating All The Weapons Presently Owned

It would be similar to eradicating an aggressive cancer.

One extracts the cancer one bit at a time just like confiscating weapons one firearm at a time.

Over time the cancer and guns are gone and hopefully so before the patient or country is dead.

[cantbeserious]

43. Yes - One Step Further - Outlaw All Guns Completely

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