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Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:23 AM Dec 2012

About this whole mental health thing--

If the mentally ill are more prone to violent crime, you would expect the prisons to be full of them, right?

Well, in fact, there are more people with psychoses in prison than there were years ago when we actually had appropriate facilities for them, but still--

About 2 to 4% of the US prison population is diagnosed with psychoses.

https://www.aca.org/government/healthcare.asp

So, what's the incidence in the general adult population?

The lifetime prevalence of all psychotic disorders was 3.06% and rose to 3.48% when register diagnoses of the nonresponder group were included. Lifetime prevalences were as follows: 0.87% for schizophrenia, 0.32% for schizoaffective disorder, 0.07% for schizophreniform disorder, 0.18% for delusional disorder, 0.24% for bipolar I disorder, 0.35%for major depressive disorder with psychotic features, 0.42% for substance-induced psychotic disorders, and 0.21% for psychotic disorders due to a general medical condition.

http://www.laboratoriosilesia.com/upfiles/sibi/P030745.pdf

In other words, there is no discernible difference between the general population & the criminal population in the incidence of psychosis.

All the "mentally ill" talk is a bunch of bullshit.

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HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
1. Unfortunately, this also about confirmation of fear based stereotypical bias
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:39 AM
Dec 2012

In this context the very limited nexus of criminal violence and mental illness is sufficient to sustain the stereotype.

Existential fear is a tremendous cognitive motivator of conservative thinking...including black and white thinking.

For frightened people it's not enough to say minimal risk, when their perception is that ANY risk is intolerable.

According to Jost et al. Existential fear is a core dynamic of conservative thinking. Not surprisingly, an organization deeply steeped in conservatism such as the NRA, is pushing black and white thinking and strongly pushing culpability onto an already socially disparaged weak 'other'...the mentally ill, regardless of the actuarial risks they represent.


On edit: citation for Jost et al: Political conservatism as motivated social cognition”. Psychological Bulletin vol 129, pp 339-375

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
4. Abstract
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:13 AM
Dec 2012

Jost, John T.; Glaser, Jack; Kruglanski, Arie W.; Sulloway, Frank J.
Psychological Bulletin, Vol 129(3), May 2003, 339-375. doi: 10.1037/0033-2909.129.3.339

Analyzing political conservatism as motivated social cognition integrates theories of personality (authoritarianism, dogmatism-intolerance of ambiguity), epistemic and existential needs (for closure, regulatory focus, terror management), and ideological rationalization (social dominance, system justification). A meta-analysis (88 samples, 12 countries, 22,818 cases) confirms that several psychological variables predict political conservatism: death anxiety (weighted mean r=.50); system instability (.47); dogmatism-intolerance of ambiguity (.34); openness to experience (-.32); uncertainty tolerance (-.27); needs for order, structure, and closure (.26); integrative complexity (-.20); fear of threat and loss (.18); and self-esteem (-.09). The core ideology of conservatism stresses resistance to change and justification of inequality and is motivated by needs that vary situationally and dispositionally to manage uncertainty and threat.

Conclusions:

What Have We Learned?
Understanding the psychological underpinnings of conservatism
has for centuries posed a challenge for historians, philosophers,
and social scientists. By now, hundreds of empirical investigations
have been carried out worldwide, and at least three types of
theories have been offered to explicate the psychological bases of
conservative and right-wing ideologies. Our contribution here has
been to review and summarize this work and to integrate it within
the ambitious and broad framework of motivated social cognition
(see Figure 1). In doing so, we have drawn a number of conclusions, which should be made explicit in order to better understand
the various ways in which political conservatism may be thought
of as a form of motivated social cognition.
An important conclusion that follows from our analysis is that
political attitudes and beliefs possess a strong motivational basis
(e.g., Duckitt, 2001; Dunning, 1999; Fiske & Taylor, 1991;
Kruglanski, 1996; Kunda, 1990). Conservative ideologies, like
virtually all other belief systems, are adopted in part because they
satisfy various psychological needs. To say that ideological belief
systems have a strong motivational basis is not to say that they are
unprincipled, unwarranted, or unresponsive to reason or evidence.
Although the (partial) causes of ideological beliefs may be motivational, the reasons (and rationalizations) whereby individuals
justify those beliefs to themselves and others are assessed according to informational criteria (Kruglanski, 1989, 1999).
Many different theoretical accounts of conservatism over the
past 50 years have stressed motivational underpinnings, but they
have identified different needs as critical. Our review brings these
diverse accounts together for the first time. Variables significantly
associated with conservatism, we now know, include fear and
aggression (Adorno et al., 1950; Altemeyer, 1998; Lavine et al.,
1999), dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity (Fibert & Ressler,
1998; Frenkel-Brunswik, 1948; Rokeach, 1960; Sidanius, 1978),
uncertainty avoidance (McGregor et al., 2001; Sorrentino &
Roney, 1986; Wilson, 1973b), need for cognitive closure (Golec,
2001; Jost et al., 1999; Kemmelmeier, 1997; Kruglanski & Webster, 1996), personal need for structure (Altemeyer, 1998; Schaller
et al., 1995; Smith & Gordon, 1998), terror management
(Dechesne et al., 2000; Greenberg et al., 1990, 1992; Wilson,
1973d), group-based dominance (Pratto et al., 1994; Sidanius,
1993; Sidanius & Pratto, 1999), and system justification (Jost &
Banaji, 1994; Jost et al., 2001; Jost & Thompson, 2000). From our
perspective, these psychological factors are capable of contributing
to the adoption of conservative ideological contents, either independently or in combination.
The socially constructed nature of human belief systems (see
Jost & Kruglanski, 2002) makes it unlikely that a complete explanation of conservative ideology could ever be provided in terms of
a single motivational syndrome. Ideologies, like other social representations, may be thought of as possessing a core and a periphery (Abric, 2001), and each may be fueled by separate motivational concerns. The most that can be expected of a general
psychological analysis is for it to partially explain the core of
political conservatism because the peripheral aspects are by definition highly protean and driven by historically changing, local
contexts.
We regard political conservatism as an ideological belief system
that is significantly (but not completely) related to motivational
concerns having to do with the psychological management of
uncertainty and fear. Specifically, the avoidance of uncertainty
(and the striving for certainty) may be particularly tied to one core
dimension of conservative thought, resistance to change (Wilson,
1973c). Similarly, concerns with fear and threat may be linked to
the second core dimension of conservatism, endorsement of inequality (Sidanius & Pratto, 1999). Although resistance to change
and support for inequality are conceptually distinguishable, we
have argued that they are psychologically interrelated, in part
because motives pertaining to uncertainty and threat are interrelated (e.g., Dechesne et al., 2000; McGregor et al., 2001; van den
Bos & Miedema, 2000).
In conclusion, our comprehensive review integrates several decades of research having to do with the psychological bases of
political conservatism. Most of what is known about the psychology of conservatism fits exceedingly well with theories of motivated social cognition. The integrative framework developed here
has implications for resolving historically controversial issues, and
we have argued that it has great generative potential for guiding
future work on the subject of conservatism. By attending to the
multiple, potentially reinforcing influences of epistemic, existential, and ideological motivations involved in political conservatism, we hope that future research strengthens understanding of
belief systems in general. It should also shed light on the nature of
relations between the micro and the macro, that is, on the reciprocal dynamics between the needs of individual and group actors
on one hand and the complex characteristics of social and political
systems, institutions, and organizations on the other.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
7. Yes, that's the paper.
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:39 AM
Dec 2012

IMO it provides a pretty good foundation for understanding fear and politics, even why we have calls for public policy about the extraordinarily low actuarial risk of criminal gun violence from the mentally ill

It's clearly a piece of advanced work and requires a bit of work. But for anyone wanting to take on these things on an intellectual level...it is a great starting place.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
10. Just look at what they've found, and think about reactions to the Newtown massacre
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:52 AM
Dec 2012

Their correlations match pretty strongly with pubic reactions..

death anxiety (r =.50)

system stability (r = .47) (expression about the country falling apart)

needs for order/structure/closure (r=.26) (need for government action, calls for new laws etc)

fear of threat and/or loss (r=.18)

uncertainty tolerance (r=-.27) (inability to tolerate the absence of an explanation and our willingness to grasp at any answer)

integrative complexity (r=-.20) (inability to see a problem as complex)


And for those of us who care about persons with mental illness, the work also relates to our reaction:

self-esteem (r=-.09)


 

Comrade_McKenzie

(2,526 posts)
2. Perhaps, but the mentally ill should be the first to lose their gun privileges...
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:45 AM
Dec 2012

Mandatory mental health screenings for every gun owner in America.

Too paranoid? Fuck off.

Too impulsive? Fuck off.

Etc, etc, etc.

lbrtbell

(2,389 posts)
5. That's some hard-core bigotry, right there
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:15 AM
Dec 2012

Mental illness is rarely severe enough to warrant such a thing. For instance, clinical depression after the death of a spouse is mental illness...but people usually recover. Bipolar disorder is very common among creative people who are harmless (Patty Duke, Robin Williams, Jonathan Winters, etc.).

Lumping mentally ill people who are dangerous into the same category as mentally ill people who are simply suffering...that is cold.

Treatment is the answer, not persecution.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
9. We already have a comprehensive...
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:50 AM
Dec 2012

... starting list of those with dangerous mental illnesses.

It's the NRA membership roll.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
12. Maybe LaPierre should be given a few tests to assess his mental state first
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:57 AM
Dec 2012

I bet his guns would be taken away just like you want.

 

OneMoreDemocrat

(913 posts)
3. I completely agree...
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 10:56 AM
Dec 2012

"...there is no discernible difference between the general population & the criminal population in the incidence of psychosis".

Except that anyone who shoots someone else (not accidentally), with the intent to harm or kill is mentally ill on some level, and generally speaking, quite ill.

The hard part about discussing this is that while you are 100% correct about the mentally ill and their lack of proclivity toward violence, every time there is a mass shooting, it's always by someone who has been suffering from some sort of mental illness.

The question I've been wondering about is how to face that reality without placing blame on completely innocent people who are absolutely no harm to anyone.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
6. I'm glad you are sympathetic but I have a question...
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:24 AM
Dec 2012

you make a broad statement claiming mental illness.

Can you name WHICH mental illness(es)?

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
13. I think prescribing physicians are already into that, and I'm glad you mention "cases"
Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:25 PM
Dec 2012

because the actuarial risks of these horribly adverse outcomes to prescriptions is a small fraction of those with mental illnesses and patients who take these medicines. The warnings of associations of the risk to identifiable cohorts is well know to prescribers and usually communicated by pharmacists at the time the medication is given out.






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