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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA motive is emerging (Sandy Hook shooting)
No wonder Adam Lanza snapped....
People who knew his mother, Nancy Lanza, said that she shadowed him and barely let him speak. She was also attempting to get him involuntarily committed...imagine the terror and anger he must have felt. Clearly, he thought he would rather die than lose his freedom.
But this is the worst part, why innocent children became victims.
Well, now things get clearer. Instead of caring properly for her mentally ill son (or even her guns, by putting them in a locked safe!), Nancy Lanza was too busy socializing, volunteering, and engaging in survivalism BS to make her teenaged son feel loved. It's so much easier to get on with your life, if you lock up your son.
What's especially tragic is how many people were victims of her selfishness.
It's hard to imagine the depths of terrified despair and rage that drove Adam to kill his own mother, so many children, and himself. That woman is responsible for all of it, the deaths of all those children--including one of her own.
The full story at link:
http://newsone.com/2109793/adam-lanza-motive-sandy-hook/
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cali
(114,904 posts)lots of assumptions. not much in the way of facts.
There has been so much misinformation, wild speculation and as you said, assumptions about this.
flying_wahini
(6,606 posts)nt
You posted that a lot better than I would have. I have been shocked by the number of articles posted as facts by people while there were no facts in them.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)i think it distorts the facts in a malicious way. 
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)...seemingly taking the distortion one or two steps farther.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)Nothing new!
spanone
(135,844 posts)
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)By Paul Farhi, Published: December 18
As the horror unfolded in Newtown, Conn., last Friday, dozens of news sources reported a striking element of the story: that Nancy Lanza, mother of shooter Adam Lanza, was a teacher at the school where her son killed 26 people before killing himself.
This account persisted — in news reporting and in conversation — and seemed to fill in a critical element of the tragedy: a motive.
As it turns out, she was not a teacher. Nor does it appear that Nancy Lanza had been a substitute or a teacher’s aide at Sandy Hook Elementary School, as some reported. Other accounts said incorrectly that she had been killed at the school along with her students, rather than at home before her son’s rampage at the school.
While it was a relatively minor error in a string of inaccuracies about the Newtown shootings, the Nancy-Lanza-was-a-teacher story is an important tale in its own right.
-snip-
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/media-too-quick-to-fill-in-the-gaps-in-story-of-school-shooting-in-newtown-conn/2012/12/18/368ae690-4959-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines
2
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,732 posts)from an article that says pretty much the opposite.
lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)Based on what the article said...and based on having compassion for the mentally ill.
Other articles in the past few days have backed up what this article said.
You just don't want to face the fact that there are parents out there who don't do right by their children.
cali
(114,904 posts)about drawing a conclusion from rumors and innuendo- which is precisely what YOU have done.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)
Puglover
(16,380 posts)is being kind.
adigal
(7,581 posts)It's easily for the OP to make all sorts,of judgments about a woman trying to deal with an obviously disturbed young adult male. I do blame for for having non-secured weapons around a mentally ill son, but not for the rest of it. May the woman RIP. she is dead. It is done.
to call this woman's pursuits "selfish" is very judgmental. you have no idea what you would choose/need to do to cope with such a life situation. the assumptions made are extremely condescending.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Adam go with her to "put him in a school or center". It also described that he spent most of the time in his lavishly decorated basement with leather sofas & flat-screen tv's.
NEWTOWN, Conn. (AP) — He was the awkward kid who wore the same clothes to school every day.
He rarely spoke and even gave a school presentation entirely by computer, never uttering a word.
He liked tinkering with computers and other gadgets, and seemed to enjoy playing a violent video game, choosing a military-style assault rifle as one of his weapons.
-snip-
In high school, Lanza would walk through the hallways, awkwardly pressing himself against the wall while wearing the same green shirt and khaki pants every day. He hardly ever talked to his classmates.
"As long as I knew him, he never really spoke," said Daniel Frost, who took a computer class with Lanza and remembered his skill with electronics. Lanza could take apart and reassemble a computer in a matter of minutes.
From: http://news.yahoo.com/details-emerge-week-school-massacre-080111997.html
lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)Although he reportedly cheated on his wife, their split was amicable. He gave them enough in child support so that Nancy would never have to work again.
It's quite common for people with some forms of mental illness to be extremely shy. So it's not surprising that Adam, like so many other kids, would spend a lot of time alone and playing video games.
And of course things had to be made worse by his mom not letting him speak, and spending so much time away from him. Talking to friends is one thing, but no good could come of Nancy's spending time volunteering with other kids and leaving guns around the house instead of locking them in a safe. I can't think of too many people who would react well to their mother trying to institutionalize them, either.
Combine all that with his mental illness, and bad things are bound to happen.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)"no good could come of Nancy's spending time volunteering with other kids". What an awful thing to say. Of course good came of it. What do you have against people volunteering with kids? One moment you're saying she controlled him too much, the next you're saying there's something wrong with leaving him alone, as an adult.
He didn't speak much for himself, whether his mother was around or not. The barber (someone who also said "he had to be possessed by the devil" and "I wish I would’ve killed him then" - not a man whose judgement I'd trust) said that he didn't get out of the chair when told the haircut was finished. So Adam did not respond to the barber. In which case, the responses would have come from the mother. It's only his opinion that she 'barely let him speak'.
Whether the guns were locked in a safe, we don't know. He had a few days on his own in the house while she was away; he may have found a key.
ZombieMan
(3 posts)I wasn't sure if the information came out as to how the guns were accessed?
If there is no info out will you stop saying that the guns were left unattended.
forthemiddle
(1,381 posts)The guns "appeared to be in a secure case". Was it enough? probably not, but it does contradict your statement about "leaving guns around the house instead of locking them in a safe".
80-10-10 raw vegan
(2 posts)I bet you believed in WMDs, didn't you, dear?
THINK. FOR. YOURSELF.
Guns suck but so does tyranny. Look at what "they" are really doing! This stinks to high heaven. More holes than Swiss cheese.
txwhitedove
(3,929 posts)lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)Nice try, having no compassion whatsoever for the mentally ill.
txwhitedove
(3,929 posts)in kinder more pc terms, "You can't reason with an unreasonable mind." A mind out of reason does not have a reasonable motive. The young man was mentally unstable, ill, period. I consider him a casualty as much as all the lovely children and teachers he killed, including his mother. I was glad to hear of at least one church in Newtown that tolled the bell 28 times for everyone who died that day.
enough
(13,259 posts)lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)There are only a selfish parent, a suffering young man, and innocent children who got caught between them.
The world isn't all black and white, you know.
kdmorris
(5,649 posts)"There are only a selfish parent, a suffering young man, and innocent children who got caught between them. "
My irony meter is pinging off the charts.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Wow! Judge, jury and hangman all in one.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Also, it sounds like he SHOULD have been involuntarily committed. Sorry, but his precious feelings versus the lives of 27 other people? Not a comparison.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)should be required reading for anyone who says anything about Nancy Lanza.
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)but that has been dismissed as being rubbish.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)I teach emotionally disturbed kids, many of whom are mentally ill. And I found that piece to be chillingly accurate.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Aside from that there has too much speculation on this subject most or even all of it being without any foundation whatsoever.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)You do the search.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)its already cropped in another post using the subject title. If for any reason you think I care whether or not you believe me then you are sadly mistaken.
mopinko
(70,121 posts)i have 2 mentally ill kids (lots more dotted around the family. called genetic predisposition), and it can feel and be exactly as that woman described.
the days of blaming mental illnesses on moms is waning. not fast enough, tho, to actually understand the whole mess.
Disgraceland
(24 posts)..the same couple quotations about this. That's still pretty thin. But I have no sympathy for this woman and her gun stockpile. That speaks for itself:it was criminally negligent to keep in her home.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Until then, I'll give your words the attention they deserve.
If you'd written this in letter form, I'd be forced to use the words of the late great Max Reger: "I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me."
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)serted the standard of Fox for that of Pitt, he
sent, in justification of his apostacy, a circular
letter to his former political colleagues. The reply
of Lord Sandwich was sufficiently laconic : " Sir,"
he said, " your letter is before me, and will pre-
sently be behind." Lord Sandwich died on the
30th of April 1792, in his seventy-fifth year.
http://archive.org/stream/georgeselwynhisc01jessuoft/georgeselwynhisc01jessuoft_djvu.txt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Montagu,_4th_Earl_of_Sandwich
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)the cake! I found it and the OP's judgement of the mother unfair and disgusting 
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)He was driven to do it? Please. He wasn't driven - he was completely nuts.
Don't make his dead mother the complete scapegoat.
So tired of hearing that when a child does something horrific - it's the parents' fault.
randome
(34,845 posts)He obviously didn't get the treatment he needed. Something happened to exacerbate his illness.
I agree the article is long on rumor and short on facts but I don't understand why anyone wants to take 'sides' in this.
People don't go on killing sprees in a vacuum.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)n/t
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)For those that are treatable, available treatments don't always work for everyone.
randome
(34,845 posts)But someone along the way could have made that call responsibly and had him committed, perhaps. There is often no perfect answer, though, I agree. Especially when denial often runs so deep when one's child is concerned. (Not saying that's the case here but it often is a factor.)
In the end, maybe there was nothing that could have been done to prevent this. It's likely we will never know.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It's just going to take some time to sort it all out. Until that happens, I don't see much value in conjecture but I do see the potential harm conjecture creates for the mentally ill if that conjecture proves to be wrong.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)involuntarily? Doesn't usually happen for more than 3 days voluntary or non-voluntary...no room in the facilities...usually like a psych emergency room.
Question 1 The "pushy, bossy mother makes her son a deaf mute" shit is shameful. There are many conditions that could describe...Social Anxiety Diorder...Non verbal Learning Disorder...Paranoia...Psychosis NOS, Depression, late-onset schizophrenia ... any combination of such and all are crippling for any social life. Most at his level, present multipile diagnoses.
And medications? Some work, or work then stop working. But at this level getting into possible anti-psychotics, its a maddening guessing game for patient and family. Side effects are often drugged, psychotic outburts, or suicide.
Then, add in divorce trauma (seems Dad CHEATED but that's ok he gave her money, or she had her own from her career as a financial analyst in NY) so regardless of the "civilized divorce"when Adam was 17, Dad was just ready to get away from the situation, get a new wife and on with his life and certainly keep his job. Dad and Adam probably had a difficult time ...what with cheating on his mom and breaking up the family...as dad would just expect him to "get over it or take a pill or something.
So now Mom has the problem 24/7. Therefore according to you, she does not get to leave the house...ever. Her life is forever handcuffed to her disturbed son. She should have no life outside the home even though she is a finance professional, now that Dad is gone and all. And I still find it odd that we don't KNOW whether the guns were locked in basement. Which to me, infers they were but we'll probably never learn because now, where would the blame go? It's entirely possible when he flipped a psycho...that he forced her to open the safe...then shot her. But one more Blame the Mom left here...she should have never had guns. Well, I think that about every gun-totin' idiot, especially the ones that accidently shoot their kids or vice versa.
Finally, the problem seems to have been long term and she was planing to move her entire life to Washington State where apparently she could have him permanently committed and live close. With severe mental illness, permanent "placement" not in a prison setting is horrendously expensive as it is not government provided. She would likely be paying enormous amounts of money for private care. To Adam, leaving his "safe" world would easily be enough to cause a psychotic break.
I find the "blame the Mother" so typical...Dad left them for another woman. That may not seem a lot to all the wise asses hereon, but to a disturbed male child, having to deal with the new "girlfriend", that's sheer desertion.
I think the last word you are searching for is not "vacuum" but Psychotic. And yes, results from that is absolutely random. Ask any schizophrenic family member.
You see, I'm not just pulling this out of my ass. I've been involved personally...family, friends and school families...and mostly what I see is ignorance and childish need to blame someone, oh right, the Mom.
randome
(34,845 posts)But someone failed to recognize that this guy was on the verge of a breakdown. I don't know if the parents can be said to be at fault. I don't know if the medical profession can be said to be at fault.
Most likely, it's a combination of all those plus the availabilty of guns, etc.
'Blame the mother' suggestions hold a little more weight with me. Sometimes the mother IS to blame. In this case, it was her guns and her survivalist 'neurosis' -for lack of a better word- that contributed to the situation.
But all anyone has to go on now is speculation. To say that the mother is NOT to blame is equally speculative.
On edit: Actually, I DO have some experience. Not with having someone committed but my mother is a hoarder. I never tried to have her committed but I do know how difficult it is to get someone to recognize a problem. She is forever outside my attempts to reason with her.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)There are few if any permanent institutions that will take them full time if they have much of any level of intelligence...they are full of those who were born disabled, or through accident, and a menace to themselves and others, but if they have the ability for "Daily Skills", not going to happen. That's the criteria they are admitted.
What was his relationship with Dad...who cheated on his mom, left and then got a new wife? That we know as a fact. Divorce...especially adultery is usually harder with sons. Maybe Dad liked the "good" son and dismissed the "crazy one" as they discovered there was little they could do. We know he moved away to another town. Maybe Mom had to quit her job as a financial analyst to stay and supervise her son (guns too).
Even if they are currently a danger to themselves and others...which if nothing has happened WILL NOT EVEN BE CONSIDERED UNTIL "SOMETHING HAPPENS". An involuntary commitment is for 72-hours is for evaluation. The goal is to "stabilize" them and send them home, recommend talk therapy and medication. EOS. Not a police officer or mental health person is capable of diagnosing or taking away UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS. Nor is there any record yet of previous violence. Well, in this case, he was a danger the required EVENT happened...a bit too late. Same with battered wives or molested children...The Village is usually Mom.
When one has a child...and this started before he was an adult...with a difficult mental diagnois...It Takes a Village. The Village was not there to support the two of them. Apparently she was headed for a Village that would help both of them and made the mistake ot including him in her planning. Of course, he had to go willingly.
Mom has her share of blame, but so does everyone else in the situation. Dad, who also has guns, needs to step up and thus far, he's missing.
jehop61
(1,735 posts)You seen to be blaming a dead person who you know nothing about, and letting the actual shooter off the hook. Lets let the authorities do the investigating.
chewygalacticcenter.
(5 posts)It is truly frightening that so many people are filling in blanks that they have NO idea the truth.
And how come no one has claimed Nancy Lanza's body yet? Her ex-hubby? Her SON?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts).. becomes a screen for everyone to project their own biases, fears, and stereotypes upon.
Many see it as validation of whatever hobby-horse theory they've been trotting out recently. A vindication that, "Aha, I was right!"
Understandable yet at the same time, deplorable.
randome
(34,845 posts)
Springslips
(533 posts)For people enough to not worry about slandering their name by building off bad assumptions. Have compassion for people and stop using bad logic.
proud2BlibKansan
(96,793 posts)I'll wait for the official report.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)The site has a mandatory Walmart ad when you go to the link you furnished.
Newsone is not an a site that does original work.
Honest answer we do not have a clue about a lot of what happened at this point and may never.
yardwork
(61,650 posts)Unrec.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)and I'm not sure how much of it is accurate.
on edit, it's a bit confusing...
On the one hand she shadowed him so much he couldn't communicate, but she also left him alone so she could volunteer.
I wouldn't say that's impossible to imagine a path to make it true, but it seems that his mother both spent too close attention to him and yet not enough attention.
chewygalacticcenter.
(5 posts)that they are going after "incorrect info" on social media sites. If I could cut and paste right now, I could show you.
Even though THEY have been giving out bullshit stories left and right. Sorry. No one is that incompetent.
It's being done by design. 
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)
gollygee
(22,336 posts)My understanding is that he was very quiet. I don't know if it's fair to say she "wouldn't let him speak" if he just didn't speak much.
And it makes sense to me that a mom with such a high-needs child for 20 years would need to occasionally do something other than care for him. I have two children who have no special needs and whom I haven't been caring for nearly as long, and occasionally I need to do something else.
There's nothing wrong with socializing and volunteering, and her survivalism hobby, while I don't understand it, was her thing and not a good reason to kill her.
He might very well have not felt loved, but that might have been a result of his mental illness. You can't always *make* a person feel loved, no matter how much you love them.
I find your assessment of the mother to be horrible and very mean spirited.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)His father, the pastor, says it's untrue. There have even been stories evaluating the shooters mental health from his hair-stylist, who hadn't seen him in 3 years.
I would suggest waiting until official reports come out. I suspect much of the current speculations and assumptions will be found false.
chewygalacticcenter.
(5 posts)talking about Nancy Lanza? It never fit that a woman in an upscale area is gonna be a gun nut and bar fly. But the fluoridated masses just swallow it like candy!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Even the relative (Aunt?), who described the mother as wanting to be prepared, which was reported as the mother was a "survivalist". From the get-go, that seemed quite an exaggeration.
I can understand the public wanting informtion, updates, and background, on a huge tragedy. I understand media's desire, job even, to supply that. But the reporting in this case has been exceedingly sloppy and inaccurate.
I can understand some errors... the initial misidentification of the shooter was made by police, who released the brother's name on the ID carried by the shooter to reporters without double-checking first. But still...
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)She kept the guns in a safe in the basement...
http://news.yahoo.com/details-emerge-week-school-massacre-080111997.html
The basement of the Lanza home had a computer, flat-screen TV, couches and an elaborate setup for video games. Nancy Lanza kept her guns in what appeared to be a secure case in another part of the basement, said Ford, who often met her and other friends at a regular Tuesday gathering at My Place, a local restaurant.
And this "barely let him speak" rubbish... everyone that knew him knew that he rarely if ever spoke to anyone. His uncommunicativeness was part of his mental illness. If Nancy had to speak for him it was because HE refused to do so.
Her ex-sister-in-law said she did some volunteer work at the elementary school way back when Adam was a student there. But even what she's been saying is suspect since she finally admitted she hadn't even seen Adam since he was three years old. The investigation has revealed there is NO connection between Nancy and the school other than Adam attended as a child. And since they aren't saying she ever volunteered there even when Adam was a student it's because they have reason to not believe what Marsha has been claiming in the press, and they've talked to the father and brother who would surely know whether or not she ever volunteered there.
And the survivalist garbage? Also debunked...
http://todaynews.today.com/_news/2012/12/17/15968547-friend-nancy-lanza-was-very-devoted-to-her-sons?lite
"She was definitely not a survivalist," Bergquist said. "Shooting was one of her hobbies. It wasn't her main hobby. She loved the arts, culture. She loved the finer things in life. She loved to go to Red Sox games, and that's the Nancy I knew."
"She took up target shooting a few years ago," Tambascio told NBC News. "She was a single mom raising two boys living alone in a house that's close to the woods. I don’t see anything odd."
ALL of this victim blaming shit has come from the rag press. NONE of it has been in anything from the MSM nor the police.
Enough already with this idiotic victim blaming bullshit.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)
raquel69
(27 posts)in the basement where Adam lived? A smart kid like him was probably watching and waiting for a long time to get his hands on them. Sad.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)And the gun safe was in a separate part of it from where Adam lived.
What the hell difference does it make anyway? He lived in the house and the guns were in the house. It wouldn't have made any difference where in the house the gun safe was. Te fact is THEY WERE IN A GUN SAFE. So all the people that spent all week insisting that she had them out around the house loose in order for Adam to so easily get hold of them and claiming she was negligent for doing so were WRONG. They were so eager to find something ANYTHING to flog a victim of the incident just because she was the mother and owned the guns they flat out made shit up they knew nothing about. And you won't see a single one of them admitting they flogged this woman for something she didn't do they'll just find some other reason to blame her... like the gun safe was in the basement or in the house at all. Come hell or high water they'll find a way to blame Mom.
randome
(34,845 posts)Combination? Key? He still should not have been able to get at them, else what's a gun safe for?
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Come hell or high water Mom is STILL going to catch the blame.
What the hell difference does it make how the gun safe is secured??? He OBVIOUSLY was able somehow to get into it. They aren't fucking bank vaults. The point isn't the gun safe but the FACT that she secured her guns in one while so many people ran amok all over DU blaming Mom for having her guns outside of a gun safe when they had NO idea if she used one or not. The point is that she did everything RIGHT as to responsible gun ownership and taking the best care of her disturbed adult son as she could and that he ALLOWED her to know about his mental state including teaching him and his brother responsible gun handling and security.
How is it MOM's fault that a son she had NO CLUE was harboring violent unhinged thoughts responsible for HIS breaking into her gun safe, KILLING HER with them and going on to kill the children and teachers at the school? How is it not HIS fault for hiding his violent unhinged thoughts from everyone including his mother, breaking into her gun safe, murdering her and then murdering the children and teachers at the school? How is it not the country's fault for allowing such weapons to be kept by civilians even if kept securely which we find out by his actions that can't always be kept really secure? No, somehow it's ALL Mom's fault for simply owning the guns, even though she taught her sons to handle and secure them responsibly, secure them responsibly herself in a gun safe and not being clairvoyant to have even an inkling that her mentally disturbed son would kill her and many innocent others.
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Here we have a woman who worked developing young person's minds, a mother that was shot in the face... and I guess it's all her goddamned fault.
Wow.
green for victory
(591 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 03:46 PM - Edit history (1)
simply cannot believe almost everyone wants to demonize everything and everyone but big pharma.
from Breaking News:
Eli Lilly to settle US SEC bribery case
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014344273 posted by Judi Lynn
December 21 2012 at 10:12am By Reuters
US drugmaker Eli Lilly and Co agreed on Thursday to pay $29 million to settle civil charges that its subsidiaries made improper payments to foreign government officials to win business in Russia, Brazil, China and Poland.
Lilly's settlement with the US Securities and Exchange Commission represents part of a broader bribery crackdown on the pharmaceutical industry by US criminal and civil authorities as they continue to probe corruption.
The settlement stems from an investigation by the SEC of Lilly's activities from 1994 to 2009, Lilly said, adding the company was first notified of the probe in 2003.
In this case, the SEC alleged that a Russian unit of Indianapolis-based Eli Lilly used “marketing agreements” to funnel millions of dollars to government officials through offshore companies.
http://www.iol.co.za/business/international/eli-lilly-to-settle-us-sec-bribery-case-1.1444006
In 2006 Eli Lilly got caught for encouraging primary care physicians to use Zyprexa, a powerful drug for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, in patients who did not have either condition.
******PROMOTING THE USE OF A DRUG IN THE MIDDLE OF A DRUG WAR TO PATIENTS WHO DID NOT HAVE EITHER CONDITION*****************************************
HELLO is anyone there??? There's more:
ANOTHER criminal information alleged that Zyprexa was promoted (1999-2003) in nursing homes and assisted-living facilities for the treatment of disorders such as dementia, Alzheimer’s dementia, depression, anxiety, and sleep problems, and behavioral symptoms such as agitation, aggression, and hostility. The qui tam lawsuits alleged that Zyprexa was promoted (1999-2005) for use in patients of all ages and for the treatment of anxiety, irritability, depression, nausea, Alzheimer’s and other mood disorders. Off-label promotion of pharmaceutical drugs is considered, by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), to be a serious crime that undermines their role in drug regulation and public safety
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olanzapine
************************
So basically what Eli Lilly was doing is stuffing kids mouths with drugs for illnesses they didn't have and then taking that money and using it to bribe foreign countries to allow them to stuff their kids mouths with drugs they don't need either. Presumably to make more millions of dollars to hire the latest FDA clowns, to then be able to legally stuff more drugs into a new crop of Americans. Does that sound good?
****************************
Consider:
Cannabis is Illegal but the use of the main ingredient is patented by the Federal Government
Cannabinoids have been found to have antioxidant properties, unrelated to NMDA receptor antagonism. This new found property makes cannabinoids useful in the treatment and prophylaxis of wide variety of oxidation associated diseases, such as ischemic, age-related, inflammatory and autoimmune diseases.
The cannabinoids are found to have particular application as neuroprotectants, for example in limiting neurological damage following ischemic insults, such as stroke and trauma, or in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and HIV dementia.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6630507.PN.&OS=PN/6630507&RS=PN/6630507
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)you have ever had much experience with them in close settings.
It was popular among psychoanalysts 50 years ago to blame the travails of the mentally ill on bad parenting, i.e., the mother. Fortunately, advances in the study of neurology and brain chemistry have laid many of those old prejudices, really misogyny, to rest for good.
You might want to read The Bipolar Child if you really care about widening your understanding of what life is like with mentally ill children.
I'm not holding my breath.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)What's especially tragic is how many people were victims of her selfishness"
You talk about the mother's selfishness. Place all the blame on the shoulders of a dead woman, a victim. What about the father? You don't see his abandonment of the family as selfishness? Why? Because he gave them money?
I'm sure there's plenty of after-the-fact armchair blame to go around but your OP just reeks.
TYY
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Well, not sure about Nader, but the rest of your post, yes.
It may very well be that his parents were awful parents. So are a lot of parents. Put together bad parenting and mental illness, and you get big problems. However, in all cases, the culmination of bad parenting shouldn't be 20 dead children. The guns are the issue here.
Cerridwen
(13,258 posts)After the shooting at the Amish School in 2006, during which the gunman took the girls hostage and "allowed a pregnant woman, three parents with infants, and all remaining boys to exit the building" (from wiki), a longtime DU poster came into a thread about it and argued that perhaps the girls had done something to the shooter to make him want to shoot them, because, as the poster noted, you know "how girls are".
I thought that was the height of victim blame and hatred for girls and women on this board.
I was wrong.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)There has to be a nice, tidy, black and white "answer" to everything. Oh it was the guns, no it was the drugs, no it was the mental illness, no it was video games, no, actually, it was the mom's poor parenting. Maybe, just maybe, there isn't one thing we can point to in a situation like this. I hate to even suggest it, but maybe it's complicated.
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting, too.
People want to tie an appropriately colored ribbon around it and place it into a perfectly-sized cubby just so.
Life's messy, there aren't always easy answers. But we pattern-matching-as-survival-trait monkeys have to look for the slot where things fit.
*sigh*
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Please.
arthritisR_US
(7,288 posts)Seems they have Oedipus issues
Response to lbrtbell (Original post)
Post removed
MadrasT
(7,237 posts)What a complete load of nonsense.
I have numerous family members who are mentally ill and have been dealing with mental illness literally all my life.
No one else is responsible for the actions taken by another person. The person who commits the actions is responsible. Period. End of sentence.
This OP is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen on DU.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Therefore she should martyr herself and never socialize! How dare she socialize and make him feel unloved!
sigh.
frostfern
(67 posts)Far from uncaring, the picture I'm getting was that Nancy Lanza was overprotective of her son. In addition to being socially awkward, he had a somewhat rare condition where his sense of pain was deadened, thus as a child he frequently injured himself. This makes her fearfulness understandable. She pampered and controlled him and he felt extraordinarily trapped and was made to feel that he was defective.
Also, autism is a condition that can sometimes make it exceptionally difficult for a child to show outward affection. This makes the mother feel like her desire to be nurturing is being rebuffed, making her feel inadequate. Then the tendency is to overcompensate by becoming controlling and overbearing. He didn't feel unloved. He felt smothered. He wanted to strike out on his own but his mother was afraid to let him. Chances are Nancy tried to institutionalize him because he threatened to move out and she was afraid. This damaged his ego so much that he went into an almost psychotic blind rage.
He also had a condition called alexithymia that made it impossible for him to express how he was truly feeling. People with this condition tend to resist any kind of talk therapy. When in distress they bottle up their emotions. They will not tell you what they're feeling. They cannot be consoled. Adam Lanza's mind was a boiling pressure cooker.
Why did he choose to kill children? I think maybe it was symbolic. They're innocence and shelteredness was the very thing that enraged him. They represented his past. It wasn't revenge. It wasn't punishment. It wasn't rational at all. It wouldn't have happened if he hadn't had access to such weapons while he was in such a senselessly blinded state of mind.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Who, How, and When are generally questions that are easily answered. The police should have that information in short order, and should supply it in an accurate and timely manner to media.
It is natural for everyone to want to immediately know Why, but it often takes a long time to determine. The two central characters in the case, the mother and son, are both dead. While there are certainly questions about the mother's actions, and lack of actions, regarding her son; sorting those out, along with the son's motive, is going to have to rely heavily on interviews with family, close friends, and whatever counselors were involved; and on whater paper trail might exist. I think it will take a while before a picture can emerge.
It took several years for a govt team of forensic behavior scientists to determine the motive for the Columbine tragedy...and there still is some dispute over their findings.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Any reason except the only one that in the end help facilitate mass murder, the easy availability of deadly weapons to anyone that wants to kill.
Hope the check clears.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)with fertilizer and diesel fuel (OK City), or with a can of Ronson lighter fluid (Upstairs Lounge in NOLA)?
randome
(34,845 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)And the biggest school massacre in history was the result of dynamite. Let's not forget the ATL Olympic bombing, numerous church arsons and bombings, abortion clinic bombings and arsons, and the FACT that Columbine was intended to be a bombing. Several bombs made from propane tanks failed to go off due to faulty timing mechanisms. The killers planned to kill 600. Unlikely, but even 10% of that number would have been far greater than the gunshot deaths.
Mass murderers are going to commit their crimes with whatever weapons they can easily acquire. Example: http://www.sptimes.com/News/102900/TampaBay/Community_finally_ris.shtml Yes, often it's guns of one type or another. Otherwise it's fertilizer, propane, lighter fluid, etc. The Sandy Hook killer could have simply rammed his mother's car into a crowd of schoolkids waiting to board schoolbuses, with equally devastating results.
This doesn't mean we should throw up our hands and despair and do nothing. But let's take a big picture approach in preventing these events, rather than a narrow focus.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Maybe guns should be as difficult to get as dynamite.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Maybe instead of a narrow focus on WHAT they're buying, we should include WHO is buying, and for what purpose.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)....semi-automatic weapons???
Seriously? Thats your argument? 
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Common? No... but one example of a mass-murderer using whatever is easily accessable. There have been cases of people plowing cars into crowds. There have been mass poisonings. No doubt there are lethal methods yet to be employed...which is why I think it's a mistake to focus on one type of weapon, and pat ourselves on the back thinking the problem solved. It won't be.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Case in point, to everyone reading this thread.
What you created is a Straw Man Argument, easily ignored, and is another failed attempt at deflection away from what I posted.
Anyway, how many people die from the intentional illegal use of firearms in this nation every year, and how many are killed by arson, or explosives?
Use the automobile analogy, this one is a non-starter for you guys.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Gun deaths, in total? Over 30K. Of that, about 60% are suicides. I don't know how many suicide deaths are with legally owned guns vs. illegally owned guns. But I knew 5 suicide victims...2 jumpers, 2 ODs, and one hanging. Only 2 could be called predictible, ie: chronic depression and previous attempts. None owned a gun to my knowledge, but the lack of a gun didn't stop them.
Homicides- the majority happen in the commission of other crimes...robbery, etc...by convicted felons who aren't allowed guns anyway. Most of these weapons are handguns, convicted felons don't walk around with unconcealable rifles, for the most part. Since they are already disobeying the law, the case can't be made that they will decide to follow any new laws. So reducing that aspect of gun homicides (remember, it's the majority) is going to involve keeping those criminals off the streets (which is already being done by minimum sentencing and other laws, with some success), and by stemming the flow of guns onto the streets - which can probably have some success by restricting private sales, which hasn't been tried yet.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that reinforces my deeply ingrained beliefs, fears, and prejudices. Everybody can play this game, but in the end, there's nothing that can be done about this.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)The mother probably felt she was doing him a favor by speaking up for him.
Seems much more likely based on the reporting so far that he was extremely tormented, darker than anyone knew and determined to carry out this massacre for reasons that he wanted to take with him to his grave. Otherwise, why go through all the trouble to destroy his computer drives? This doesn't feel like a relatively straightforward case of feeling victimized.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Any records from school or mental health professionals will likely remain sealed. Comments from casual acquaintences and "the guy at the bar" should be taken with a grain of salt...they aren't experts, and are engaging in speculation as we are.
I do question the mother's actions, if reports are true. I'm not a mental health professional, but it would seem logical that if an individual had difficulty with social interaction and communication, then treatment of that would involve promoting social interaction and communication. Shielding him from that (withdrawing him from school, always speaking for him, etc) seems counterproductive. I have no idea whether she was taking this course on the advice of MH professional/therapist, or if she was doing it on her own.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)"Nancy Lanza was too busy socializing, volunteering, and engaging in survivalism BS to make her teenaged son feel loved. It's so much easier to get on with your life, if you lock up your son."
Apart from her survivalism, which I agree is sickening, your Mommy-blaming is retrogressive hogwash. It's an attitude from the 1950s, when mental illness in a child was always blamed on the mother. Did you know they called women "refrigerator mothers" if their children were autistic? They blamed the autism on the mother's failure to love. We know now that that was never the case.
Adam Lanza was an adult with serious, serious mental health problems. I have known parents who have adult children like this. They can be very frightening in their irrationality. You can't necessarily reason with someone like Adam Lanza, nor can you can't "love" away their problems. Maybe his mother felt the need to escape from him sometimes.
Her real mistake, and the only one that is worthy of your finger-pointing, is that she kept guns in her house.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)that extreme jealousy was part of Lanza's motive to kill those kids. Clearly, shooting his mother alone was not enough to quench the rage he felt at her.
Too bad she couldn't have been successful at getting him someplace where everybody would have been safe from him, if indeed that's what she was trying to do. I've talked to lots of folks who had a family member or a close friend describe the kind of hell it is to have a monster in your midst.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Not "she didn't do a better job of securing the guns", she didn't get rid of the guns.
It's been reported the guns were in a locked box (or safe) yet I still believe her to be criminally negligent and morally reprehensible and stupidly, insanely irresponsible.
I believe that it is well-nigh impossible for a parent to prevent a determined teenager (especially a brilliant technokid) from figuring out the codes to a safe or safes that the parent regularly accesses in the house. It is foolish for parents or politicians to pretend otherwise.
The teen could set up mirrors to watch the parent enter the numbers. Or a pinpoint camera -- child's play these days. The teen could guess the likely combo, birthdays and such.
The teen will know where the keys are kept. No parent can control keys 24/7.
Nancy Lanza knew she had a troubled, brilliant young man in her home. She kept those lethal, indescribably dangerous toys in her home anyway.
Because it was her hobby. She enjoyed playing with guns. Woo-hoo! Fun times! Bang Bang!
Nancy Lanza's selfish refusal to part with her lethal playthings directly led to the massacre at Sandy Hook. It was her guns that shot the bullets that splattered the human brains on the walls.
I shouldn't have to be terrified that the stupidity of the irresponsible gun loving parent down the street will result in the slaughter of my child.
Freedom doesn't mean cowering in fear of my gun loving neighbors and their teen boys.
We need real, serious gun control now. FOR REAL.
The necessary first step is to repeal the second amendment. We don't need, and can't live with, the constitutional right to own a weapon of mass death. No more.
Repeal the Second Amendment Now.
Please see this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022055101
raquel69
(27 posts)what was on that computer hard drive Adam or his mom smashed. That would give us more clues as to his state of mind. Wonder if FBI can retrieve any of that info.
putitinD
(1,551 posts) CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)for the mental illness of her son. This presumes that if she had acted better, he would not be "as bad". This is not true.
Losing someone you love to mental illness is awful. She deserved to have a life, helping other kids, socializing, in fact they tell you to take care of yourself when you are a care giver to a mentally ill person. It's part of how you stay sane enough to take care of the mentally ill person.
I'm not defending this woman as a human being- I don't know what kind of mother she was, but then neither do you. I do know that many family members of the mentally ill blame themselves and are heart-broken over their loss. They don't need more people making blaming them for an illness of a family member. I also know that mothers get blamed for everything in this country, and that's bs. And I also know that she is dead, killed by her own son. This happened months ago to a friend of mine. There's nothing sadder or more tragic. If someone said what you just said about his mother about my friend, it would hurt me deeply. You don't know her struggles.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Appalling.
ShadowLiberal
(2,237 posts)The fact that it took like 2 weeks for this story to pop up tells me a few things.
1) It's likely thinly sourced/doesn't have enough evidence to back it up
2) It took them a while to even find the thin sources of info they had that made them publish this article
There's been shootings in the past where the shooter was insane and the person's family was trying unsuccessfully to get them committed, it came out within 24 hours of the attack, not 2 weeks later.
Also, the shooters father is still alive, and his brother. If his mother wanted to get him committed, and that caused him to kill her, don't you think the father, or his brother, would have told the press by now "Adam belonged committed in an asylum, she/we were trying unsuccessfully to get him committed before this happened"?
Oh, and the fact that the guns weren't better locked up is another reason to cast doubt on this story, unless you believe that the mother was really careless/stupid and didn't think she had to lock up the guns despite having a son who she believed should be locked up for his own good. While it's possible that she may have been stupid/careless enough even if she thought her son needed locked up, that still doesn't explain why the father and brother haven't told the media that the mother was trying to get the shooter locked up.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Where was the dad? How much time did he spend with his son? Did he know Mom had guns? Did Dad have guns? Did Dad ever ask anything about the home environment of his son? Did he have the son come stay with him for extended periods of time?
"That woman" was not an only parent. She was one of TWO parents.
Also...I keep reading in posts that "that woman" was a survivalist but I haven't seen an AP or other legitimate report of that. It might be true, but so far, it seems to be rumor.