These firefighters were VOLUNTEERS

[Earth_First]

Rousted out of bed in the early morning, pre-dawn hours, left their loved one's behind; not knowing that by selflessly answering the call for help a job that already carries the inherent dangers of firefighting, that they would have to lay down their lives to the hands of an armed gunman.

On Christmas Eve.

Enough.Is.Enough.

[center][/center]

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Kick and rec!

[samsingh]

9. the gun nut was protecting his right to burn down his property

how dare anyone throw warer on a blazing fire on his property without his permission

peaise the gun nuts

sarcasm off

[Daemonaquila]

31. Stop the stupid hate - it's getting old.

Anything to take a swipe at ALL gun owners? This is a tragedy, and this guy is a particularly nasty piece of work who did 17 years for murdering his 92-year-old grandma with a hammer, and who SET A TRAP for first responders by setting up a set of weapons for an ambush behind a berm, across from a fire he started. But any opportunity to parrot the same political line, right?

[samsingh]

35. in this case i hadn't realized the brave firefighters had died, otherwise my

post would not have been as flippant.

my condolences to the brave, heroic firefighters

[coalition_unwilling]

45. Whatever! (my now-standard response to all gun nuts from this day forward) - n/t

[laundry_queen]

54. NRA has made every death political from now on. Blame them, not DUers. nt

[roguevalley]

56. my dad was a volunteer. no one is a better group than firefighters. this breaks my heart

[no1uno]

57. Sad but true

Why didn't this guys just shoot his Grandmother? Oh that's probably right, he didn't have access to a gun.

[baldguy]

72. It's not "stupid hate"; it's reasonable, well-directed hate.

Remember? "A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state..."? Gun owners have repeatedly & consistently refused to deal with their responsibility to promote security that goes with their supposed "right" to own a gun. When they oppose any & every kind of gun control, when they shout down any discussion restricting guns, when they run down gun control advocacy groups & campaign against candidates who support gun control,

When they stupidly refuse to get the point when someone makes valid arguments for gun control,

then the blood of the victims of gun violence is on their hands. In the spirit of the season, at least try to pretend that you care about life instead of promoting death,

[Bluenorthwest]

2. It is horrible.

Just wanted to say Webster is a fine town and I love the whole of the area very much. Horrors can happen anywhere.

[AllyCat]

3. I'm actually hoping the media keep the ID of shooter quiet.

The sensationalizing of the perp does not help deter other "blaze of glory" wannabes.

[tradecenter]

4. Most Fire Department's in the country are volunteer.

There really aren't that many paid Dept.'s compared to how many all volunteer Dept.'s. there are.
Most small towns can't afford a paid Dept..
My heart goes out to this Dept. and to the families of those lost to another maniac with a gun.

[cantbeserious]

5. Tragic and Disgusting - Enough - Repeal The 2nd Amendment - Outlaw All Firearms Now!

eom

[former_con]

41. I am starting to

believe that really is the only solution.

[Trajan]

51. These kinds of posts seem ....fishy ....

Presenting a strawman of the Democratic policy position regarding guns, and then supported by a low count parrot ....

Have the Democrats ever supported complete repeal of the 2nd Amendment ? .... Not that I can remember ...

[Zoeisright]

55. Here's someone with a STAR and a HIGH post count who agrees with the "fishy" post.

Suck on that.

[dflprincess]

63. I agree as well. n/t

[Trajan]

67. It's still a strawman ....

Support for complete repeal of the 2nd Amendment is very low ....

Suck on that ....

Suck on this too: I am no gun nut, and support AWB as well as other regulatory initiatives ....

[Cherchez la Femme]

61. Concealed carry? Assault weapons? + 30 weapon clips?

It's out of control.

Nobody's trying to take your rifle or shotgun away from you.
For those weapons we DO ask they be secured. It's called responsibility.

But that other crap is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY in a civilized society -- I don't even think it'd be tolerated in a Civil War.

Stop the madness, having those options does NOT make overweight Joe 'Murican Schmoes into Rambo (a fictionalization, BTW), it makes them into zeroes like Charles Whitman; a dead loser with way too much --not saying even a little is OK-- innocent, no-reason-in-the-world, blood on his disgusting hands.

IMO he, and so so many others like him, are no better than Ted Bundy.
Congrats to them,
but NONE should have had the firepower --or the rights-- accorded to them just by the accident of birth of being born in the USA.
Why?
Look up 'militia' sometime -- it does not mean an unsupervised, lone and random killer.

[Starboard Tack]

58. Not necessary. The Second does not mention guns, but arms.

Certain types can be banned without repealing 2A. Arms does not mean guns, especially when carried in public.

[golfguru]

64. I am for confiscation of all guns

if someone can explain to me how to get law breakers to turn in their guns.

The law breakers by definition don't give a rat's ass what the law is.

[daleanime]

6. Can not be said enough...

this has to stop.

[EC]

7. Sad this type of thing is happening again.

Used to happen in big city's, police and fire called to emergencies that were fake and set-ups for shootings. Never knew why the crazies wanted to do this type of thing. It made it hard to get first responders into neighborhoods for fears of this happening.

[ReRe]

8. It looks like an all-out war...

K&R

... on the innocents, on the angels of our society. A war between evil and good. Is the USG up to the challenge? This evil permeates this society, thanks to the NRA and associated gun enthusiast groups & to the gun manufacturers. How to weed out the Manchurian candidates among us? I don't know about everyone else, but my family is going to discuss this situation this week, and how to handle things should something like this happen to anyone in our family. Love above all else this Christmas. My heart goes out to those firemen families, both the dead and the injured, and to the Webster community.

[Liberalynn]

10. My sister knew one of them

He was her hairdresser's son. She said he came in several times to say hi to his Mom, on different occasions when she was getting her hair done.

My sis said he was a really nice guy and his mother was so proud of him being a volunteer firefighter and a Sherriff's dispatcher. This has really shaken my sis and she is normally very stoic.

What a devastating and senseless tragedy. Some of our local news anchors are crying on the air.

[pipewrench]

11. Sad times when a military escort is required to fight a fire.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/shooter-opens-fire-webster-n-y-house-fire-article-1.1226541

[SoapBox]

12. K & R

...ugh...another horrible gun related event.

[Thor_MN]

13. As if fire coats aren't heavy enough, adding Kevlar is going to weigh them down.

The people (including manufacturers) selling guns need to start being held liable for the crimes committed by them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. It is not just that.

The body armor, in departments that issue it, they exist, are not worn in active fire fighting. Overheating without it is already a high risk.

[2naSalit]

16. Along with errant FauxNews types for fomenting this kind of shit.

...and that includes Flush Rimjob.

[AAO]

18. And let them pay so much in fines

that they will be forced to add the cost to the weapons, making them so expensive that people wouldn't be tempted to have so fucking many laying around.

[triplepoint]

17. No good deed goes unpunished...

That's what I learned in the military.... We need a national safety standdown and discussion about all of this before we reach and pass our cultural failsafe point.
.
.
.

.
.
.

.
.
.
.
Look what Monsieur Fifi LaPew was saying about the UN earlier this year:
.
.
.

.
.
.
So, now you know a bit more about this pied piper of gun nuttery.

[riverbendviewgal]

37. LaPierre represents the Oat Keepers

read and weep...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/03/oath-keepers

[bvar22]

19. My heart is grieveing for these Heroes.

They are TRUE heroes in a "Greed is Good & Its ALL about ME" era where true HEROES are rare.

[NoMoreWarNow]

20. fucking madness

this has to stop

[Chorophyll]

21. This was an act of terrorism.

If we have to keep living under the threat of gunfire at work, at school, and at the mall, no one will be willing to come out anymore and our homes will become bunkers. No one will be willing to be a public servant of any kind. Think the economy sucks now?

I'm sure I'll be accused of exaggerating, but this is how terrorists operate. Enough is enough.

[Daemonaquila]

33. You are correct.

Given the ambush setup, and the psycho's past, it's quite likely he was making a statement. But now it will be a while before any first responder doesn't think twice when coming to the rescue.

[amuse bouche]

22. Ugh

This country has gone completely mad

[99Forever]

23. Unfortunately ...

... it never seems to be "enough" for the gun PSYCHOS to see what their LUNACY is doing to this Nation.

[sheshe2]

24. Oh dear God! This has to stop!

[narnian60]

28. Yes.

[Cha]

25. ..

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. NRA-LaPierre solution: add armed shooters riding shotgun on every firetruck

... and armed shooters on every school bus.

... and it never ends.

[uponit7771]

34. +1

[coalition_unwilling]

46. You forgot to add an armed shooter in every maternity ward - n/t

[In_The_Wind]

27. Our local firefighters are all volunteers.

May those who lost their lives today rest in peace. [img][/img]

[Lifelong Protester]

29. I am well PAST "Enough is Enough"

This is a sick situation, we need to heal it. Fast.

[Sherman A1]

40. You are correct

assuming that one considers Mr. LaPierre's stated concept to actually be a plan. Viability of said "plan" aside, to many it was simply a vehicle to increase sales for gun manufacturers.

[Iggy]

50. Since Congress Doesn't Have a PLAN

for much of anything critical-- I understand why you don't recognize a plan when it is presented.

[Sherman A1]

69. Sorry,

but what the NRA's boss proposed was a distraction and a poorly executed one at that, it was however no plan or even the very basis of a place from which to start making a plan. It would have to improve by several magnitudes to reach the level of miserable excuse.

[Walk away]

43. Will his new plan be armed guards on fire trucks?

How about guards for pizza delivery and newspaper boys? No one is moaning about the NRA and La Pierre. We are just pointing out that they both are making their fortune off of gun deaths. The more people who have guns and use them to kill people ...the more guns are made and sold. They are pushers not problem solvers.
Presidents don't make laws. The NRA owned Congress makes laws.

[Cherchez la Femme]

62. An armed guard for every U.S. citizen.

Unless if they're non-white. Duh.

But can't you just feel the money rollin in?

Ah, Capitalism at it's finest,
for the CEO's, of course!


But who else then EEALLY counts?


Fuggit, I'm outta here.

[golfguru]

66. Shots fired at firefighters is very unusual

unless it is repeated no need to get emotional on this issue.

School shootings are OTOH more frequent. And under age children are involved
as victims. Follow Israel's example where teachers are required by law to be armed.
Even the terrorists in Israel avoid attacking schools.

[Walk away]

73. Have you ever been to Israel?

Do you know what it is like living under a constant state of siege? This is what you people want for us? We are lucky enough not to live under the threat of constant terrorist attack but 2nd Amendment nuts want to flood the country with 300,000,000 guns so that we can have daily blood baths?

Gun nuts have done a great job of turning the U.S. into an impending war zone. I'm not surprised to hear they want us to become another Israel.

[golfguru]

76. Bottom line- kids in Israeli schools are safer than USA n/t

[Walk away]

78. Bottom line. Even Israel has better gun laws than we do!

I have lived in siege places. Northern Ireland, Cyprus and Colombia in the 70's and 80's. I spent many years living in places where people carried military weapons everywhere they went. If that is what you want for this country then you have lost your soul to guns and there is no help for you.

Bottom line is we are destroying our country for the false promise of the 2nd Amendment.

[golfguru]

79. Show me...

If there was a way to eradicate every firearm in the country and melt them down,
I would be for it, 100%.

But as you know we have had firearms in this country for over 200 years on the open market.
Every bank robber, store hold up bandit, mugger, drug dealer etc have firearms. Very few other major countries have had that situation in the past. They do not have proliferation of guns in
the hands of law-breakers.

So, please explain how passing stringent anti-firearm laws will persuade the law breakers to
turn in their weapons. By definition these criminals don't give a rat's ass what the law is.

So by abolishing 2nd amendment, we will disarm the law abiding, but not the law breaking criminals. We are too far gone with guns. Now we need more "good" guys with guns
to counter the "bad" guys with guns.

In localities where strict gun laws exist (Wash DC, Chicago) there is more deaths by guns.
OTOH where concealed carry is easily allowed, there is less deaths by guns.

Moral of the story is, face reality, not wishful thinking.

[oldbanjo]

74. I agree with some teachers being armed, some

teachers do not have enough common sense to have a gun. People think Israel is a good example to follow, I've been there and the amount of fences barbed wire and guns shocked me. I am a gun owner with more than one gun and more than one concealed weapon permit and Israel shocked me. I was in Washington, DC one time and 13 cars in the maintenance area to be repaired for the Police were broken into and the guns and vests were stolen in one night. We need weapons equal to what the Police have, I don't like are own a AR15 but the more Morgan talks about banning them the more I think I should have one. He is from the UK and should have no comment on a US problem.

[Daemonaquila]

32. Utterly horrible.

7 families homeless, 3 with loved ones in the hospital, and 2 in crisis, for whom it's likely the holidays can never be happy again. This "fad" of looking for people to kill while committing suicide must be stopped. I'm worried that the next level will be all about adding to the shock value. Sick.

[riverbendviewgal]

36. Pictures of these brave men and the shooter

are on this link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2252856/Christmas-Eve-gun-horror-Two-firemen-shot-dead-assault-rifle-gunman-set-blaze-lure-deadly-trap.html

[pipewrench]

38. Earth_First - here is the audio from the scene

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/24/webster-shooting-audio-tape-firefighters-responding-new-york-fire-released_n_2360338.html?utm_hp_ref=crime

[Sherman A1]

39. K&R

[Historic NY]

42. Volunteers from my state ...Monroe County

they were always cordial hosts. ....

The audio tape of the radio is unreal... RIP brothers.

[Liberal_in_LA]

44. .

[Panasonic]

52. I went to college in Monroe County

and I got to hang out in Webster a few times...

Used to live in West Henrietta.

[blueamy66]

70. from Buffalo.....

I've been to Rochester a few times.....this just breaks my heart

[AtheistCrusader]

47. Attacker was a known felon.

Ineligible to purchase a firearm.

End private transfers, and we can trace down the dipshit that sold him that gun.

[oldbanjo]

75. You need to trace down the people that let this nut out of jail.

[Historic NY]

77. Its called the Parole Board....

the gov. could have over ruled them then too..

[MissDeeds]

48. This breaks my heart

Horrible, horrible acts of inhumanity this December. It is beyond comprehension. Love, prayers, and healing thoughts to their families, friends and colleagues.

[Auntie Bush]

49. May those firefighters rest in peace and blessings to all their families.

[savebigbird]

53. The fact that they were volunteer firefighters is irrelevant.

ALL firefighters put the safety of those they serve above, in many situations, their personal comfort and safety. This is tragic regardless.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

59. R.I.P

[Cherchez la Femme]

60. the entire town is in mourning

I live less than 5 miles away. It's a beautiful spit of thin land, split so boats can cross over into Lake Ontario from Irondequoit Bay, and that there's no through automobile traffic. You can build a house there so that one side has beachfront on Lake Ontario and the opposite side has beachfront on Irondequoit Bay.
Good (?) people, very kind peaceful, helpful and polite.

That reminiscence is no more.

There's a wonderful bar on the other side of the split, it's called Marge's Lakeside Inn. Best 'secret' local point to meet friend s and have a few drinks. In the summer you can take your beverage out the sandy beach, grab an inner tube and sip beer like that whilst talking to old friends and new. I've come in by boat and waded in many a time.
I know without a doubt they, if physically possible, opened tonite and are having a wake.
If their water lines are frozen solid, right up the road is the Reunion Inn, which will be doing the same tonite. If you're in the area you may want to stop by, in respect.

To hell with Christmas cleaning, tonite I'm going down and join the mourners.

I keep out of the gungeon but this is double-shit icing on top of the fecal cake.
I even got into words with a NURSE who said the firefighters should be armed...
they were ambushed for new-born Christ's sake!

Something MUST be done about this gun problem! That was no 'well-regulated miltia! That, nor the children in Newton, do not fit any part of the Constitution!

Gun control must be enacted NOW.


Than ks for letting me blow off some tiny bit of steam.

[Bonobo]

65. I'm a volunteer fireman.

What kind of lowlife scumbag would do such a thing?

Forget it, I just answered my own question.

[eilen]

68. This is so sad. Last year a 15 y/o set fire to his house and killed his family in Webster

I'm sure these volunteers remembered this and went there really fast to stop the fire. My heart goes to the families of the victims.

[arthritisR_US]

71. This breaks my heart