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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAvoiding MAGA relatives over Thanksgiving (asking for advice)
My MAGA sister and her MAGA husband live in the house next to mine. Their two MAGA sons (early 40s/late 30s) and families will be gathering at her house next week. I do not mind someone having a normal differing political view from me. I don't think voting for Trump qualifies as a normal differing point of political view. Voting for Trump was/is an embrace of racism and misogyny. I don't want to pretend that that is OK.
So, I am trying to balance my responsibility to humanity, i.e. stand against racism, vs. personal considerations. To be clear, My MAGA sisters aren't as depraved as Trump. Probably you would like them if you met them. Being old people, we have a lifetime of history together.
When my husband died in 2019, I asked my MAGA sister to address his funeral service with a Biblical message for the benefit of my husband's parents. I am gay, btw. She spoke. It was nice. Marketing classes tell us that it is natural for humans to feel an obligation if another human gives you time or gifts. (Hence, the Moonies handing out flowers in airports in the '70s.)
[I added this paragraph upon re-read: I think funerals are stupid. My husband's service was unusual. I only wanted a service for the sake of his parents. I thought he would want his parents to be as whole as possible. There is nothing anyone could say for my sake. So, it's not like my sister carried the service. I asked 4 other people to say something briefly and I asked for my sister to address the gathering with a hopeful, religious offering.]
So, I'm caught between the natural human inclination to transactional interaction to grease the wheels of social intercourse, and my absolute disgust that Trump voters knew or should have known that he was(is) a white supremacist who most likely was involved in a child sex ring.
I'm leaning toward visiting out of town friends as a solution. Though that feels cowardly. Don't I owe the 66,000 people being held without due process by ICE an effort at least to make the people voting for the travesty aware of what they voted for? That number (66,000) is about half the number (120,000 to 125,000) Japanese Americans who were wrongfully interred during WWII. The people currently in ICE custody have had personal property confiscated too, just like what happened earlier.
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In my Alabama county, 78% of voters supported Trump. 72% of the population is white. 17% is black or African American. 8% is 2 or more races.
Scientifically, race is a social construct. You statistically share just as much genetically with any random person you meet on the street as you do with your 6th (or 7th --in that range) ancestor. This will most likely hold true for your progeny if you have any.
It's frustrating and disappointing that the false concept of race played such an important part in electing the vacuously depraved sitting president, well sitting is too kind of an adjective, the vacuously depraved slouching president.
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I'm leaning towards being out of town, because no matter how good/passionate/clear my stand against racism; it will have no effect on these MAGAs. Maybe Thanksgiving isn't the proper time to confront people. But it also isn't a good idea to give tacit approval to their actions.
wcmagumba
(5,279 posts)Living next door to Maga relatives is one of the worst things I can imagine, put up a dang tall wood fence for a start...
hlthe2b
(112,262 posts)patricia92243
(12,971 posts)thankful somewhere else.
UniqueUserName
(393 posts)I think yours is a valid response and probably held by many.
If you will, please address my misgiving. My misgiving is that I do feel like I should be a little bit uncomfortable. I think everybody in the US should be uncomfortable that 66,000 people are in ICE custody most probably without due process.
MAGA husband of sister almost always was loud and political in the past. I always found that obnoxious and never engaged. But this time there is GOOD reason to be loud and obnoxious. I would gladly be hated if it would help. I just don't think it will change anything. That's the INTJ in me. I don't see how any action I could do would create a useful outcome.
I do think, in an egocentric way I want to deny them the ability to claim "we didn't know it was like this" ---but that's just ego. That doesn't help those detained.
I'm addressing the idea that BOTH sides should work at keeping peace. I don't know that a joyous or thankful feelings is the proper mood at this point in history.
Chemical Bill
(3,000 posts)You can pick and choose when to feel uncomfortable based on your talents and predilections. If you have a sharp tongue and instant recall of facts, by all means go to Thanksgiving dinner next door, and eviscerate them in political discussion. Otherwise, go out of town to be at peace with your moral kin, instead of blood relatives. Save feeling uncomfortable for another time.
patricia92243
(12,971 posts)is unable/will not control their speech. Again. stay home.
UniqueUserName
(393 posts)I'm linking to a Youtuber, Parkrose Permaculture. I'm linking specifically to the 5:00 minute mark where she clearly states my position on this matter:
(Hopefully that link will start at the proper timestamp)
To be clear, I'm not going to their house. I am not going out of my way to confront them. But I'm not running away either. If they come and ask me why I don't socialize with them, I will tell them. It is no difficulty for me to be alone. I am an introvert. Even as an introvert, it will be slightly unpleasant; As there will be 6 additional people running around family property and riding ATVs.
I see that you are in NC. I assume you are familiar with the teachings of the majority of Southern Christians with the emphasis on "unmerited favor". At least in AL, the standard message is, "I'm not perfect; just saved. . ." I'm not interested in debating religion. I'm merely stating how this one particular aspect of the faith as it plays out in the South is manipulatable by political power. It dovetails perfectly with white privilege. All these relatives are of this type of Christian.
My Latino partner is Catholic. He is a perfectly lovely human. He is working a contract in Albuquerque. There are perfectly lovely Christians.
I understand human relationships are complex. My partner's best friends are three white women who supported him as his partner of 25 years was dying of cancer. His best friend, who is lovely, was really his husband's best friend. Even as his husband was dying, she guided his partner into getting his affairs in order properly. She took ownership of that process and helped his dying husband pen a proper will and the like. My partner was too busy caring for his husband to think of such things.
When my partner's husband died (and while he was dying), his sister-in-law was trying to secure her brother's assets for herself. His sister-in-law at the reading of the will in the probate judge's office said to the probate judge, "He [her brother] only married him [my partner] so that he [my partner] could get his green card." She said that to the probate judge.
Fortunately, the judge knew everyone and said to my partner's best friend later, "I knew him. You couldn't make him do anything he didn't want to. . ."
(My partner is fine and is now a US citizen. I found out what the judge said one time when I was having a one-on-one with my partner's best friend.)
Yet when we were dining out with these friends one time, one of them (not the best friend), was making veiled reference to undesirable aspects of Hispanic immigrants. I saw her checking out my partner's reaction. He didn't respond. I didn't ask him. I don't think his best friend condones what the other friend said. But no one called anyone out. I had only been seeing my partner for a couple of months at this point. We've been together for 2 years.
This is part of Southern culture. It might be part of human culture. I don't know. I've not been many other places. When my partner took the contract in Albuquerque, he said that he was looking forward to interacting with people more familiar with his home culture. I think he has. When he left, when I would express my frustration at the MAGAs in my family, he was much more conciliatory toward them. Lately he has been saying things more like, "They've made their choices. . ."
To me, you sound like my progressive sisters. They are always trying to give room to the MAGAs to be bigger people. I am saying there is no reason for MAGA to be bigger people if we acquiesce to all of their unreasonable demands.
Southerners aren't worse than other people. We're all just people with propensities for altruism or evil. At least around here, Ashville has a reputation as being a blue dot in a sea of red. But I can speak of Southern culture in general having experienced it for 57 years. There is a tendency to circle the wagons to defend a fellow Southerner regardless of how egregious their actions.
I appreciate the other posters who have shown concern for my mental well-being. As hlthe2b has suggested, I have a prescription for beta blockers. I'll be fine.
mercuryblues
(16,037 posts)At this point, if they still support trump, there is no changing their mind. Even if you have to rent a hotel room at your favorite place to visit.
Bread and Circuses
(1,436 posts)FHRRK
(1,334 posts)Could be a pie, flowers, special dish.
IbogaProject
(5,459 posts)Go see your friend.
usonian
(22,666 posts)When my Mom would visit from the opposite coast, we'd have Thanksgiving dinner at some nice local restaurant.
If you're short of money, I am sure good folks here will find a way to send you some (The anonymity makes it harder)
OR, if you're up to it, how about helping at a mission?
https://www.feedingamerica.org/take-action/volunteer/thanksgiving
Soup Kitchens, Food, Pantries, Food Banks
https://www.homelessshelterdirectory.org/foodbanks/
https://www.idealist.org/volunteer-on-thanksgiving
https://www.operationturkey.com/volunteer/
https://www.purewow.com/family/where-to-volunteer-on-thanksgiving
There are some follow-up ideas in an OP I wrote, in case people get stuck and need a cheat sheet of comebacks.
I recommend getting the hell out of Dodge anyway.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220807220
I'm in Central California in the foothills, probably too far, or I'd invite. Daughter an Son In Law will pass through here (YAY) next week (so I gotta clean up)
UniqueUserName
(393 posts)I like your ability to offer positive actions without regard to racism in the situation at hand. That could be read snarkily, but I mean it sincerely. If there is literally nothing positive you can do about a situation that is bothering you, try addressing a different problem. It isn't denying the original problem, but it is choosing a different path.
usonian
(22,666 posts)The point is that they are in a cult, and are programmed to answer stock questions, so hit them with unanswerable stuff, from an unexpected direction, or with stuff that's plainly obvious to even their closed minds, like "I'm frickin soaked down to my underwear" ... Aw heck, they'll still blame Biden.
Anyway, glad to help if I can. Of course, having a peaceful dinner anywhere beats confrontation. They are always in attack mode, because they are projecting weakness.
"Big" people lift others up. "Small" (not short) people try to cut others down.
I wish you the best.
nocoincidences
(2,443 posts)What would YOU like to do? Is there an option, outside the box or not, that sounds like the kind of day you want to have. There are so many ways to make that day happen if you can imagine it clearly. We'll help with excuses and other details....promise.
womanofthehills
(10,647 posts)Family are often there for us when we really need them. 90 % of my friends and relatives are Dems but when I was injured- it was only my two Republican girlfriends who brought me soup and food and ran errands for me.
If they start talking politics, I would leave the room and not return till they stop.
Like the idea of just going for desert & coffee - bring something- be nice and leave early. You can always be the bigger person. We dont have to be reactive if someone says something we disagree with. I like to be more zen and feel I have complete control of my happiness and do not have to argue with anyone.
Arazi
(8,619 posts)🙄
In my case, the MAGAts are deliberately provocative and rude. Years of misgendering and deadnaming my trans cousin who now refuses to come anymore. That doesnt stop them - their absence seems to invite more shittiness about them and all LGBTQ people. They delight in disgusting remarks.
Their comments arent just something we disagree with. Today I see theyre parroting Traitors call to kill Dems. In their case, they mean all Dems.
Raine
(31,022 posts)I have family on all political sides. Long ago we decided to agree to disagree and never discuss politics. There's too many other things to talk about. They were there for me and I'll be there when they need me.
Iggo
(49,462 posts)Its a pain in the ass at first. But after a couple of years, they get the message.
Arazi
(8,619 posts)10 years into this shitshow, they come out every holiday to scold those of us who struggle with this.
From personal experience, shunning is the only reasonable option anymore. It sends a clear (unspoken) message.
If you can be out of town, go out of town.
ret5hd
(22,040 posts)visit friends, but when you leave put a for sale sign in your yard.
when you return (and they ask) just say you all are just hoping we liberals all go away, so i just thought id give you an extra jolt of false hope.
Xavier Breath
(6,302 posts)That would be my philosophy.
Go, and if they don't preach to you, then you don't preach to them. I bet that when it's over and you're back home you'll be glad you went.
NameAlreadyTaken
(2,170 posts)And it's NOT the MAGA crowd. You'll be uncomfortable around them. Be with actual friends and people you can relate to. You'll have a much better Thanksgiving.
haele
(14,896 posts)If you don't have friends willing to put you up last-minute.
Stay in a nice little hotel, just chill, and go to Waffle House for a Thanksgiving Brunch of Hash Browns the way you like them, and leave the wait staff who call you "honey" a nice tip. Smile. Watch people. Commiserate with happier memories.
Take it easy.
mucholderthandirt
(1,731 posts)Some in the family voted Republican (one of my sons, for sure, sadly).
My opinion has always been that I won't congregate with MAGA family for any reason, and that's worked out for years, before they were even called MAGA.
You do what works for you. Do what you can bear to do.
SheltieLover
(75,282 posts)Phoenix61
(18,650 posts)sounds like a much better way to spend the day.
davsand
(13,442 posts)Joinfortmill
(19,629 posts)it comes to family and friends. My advice is do what is most comfortable for you. If it was me I'd go visit other friends because, frankly, given your family members' beliefs, you wouldn't change their minds even if you did try to. You will still be delivering a message, just a bit more subtle and less stressful to you.
ColoringFool
(117 posts)My opinion (you asked!) is to be "family" for a day, a meal.
If, however, politics rears its ugly head, one would be within one's social rights to depart, thanking the host.
DBoon
(24,540 posts)Support a blue city while withholding support from red relatives
dem4decades
(13,440 posts)Why be miserable, be a light on the dark.
OnionPatch
(6,298 posts)If you're going to confront them about their views, better to not risk ruining a big-deal family gathering while you're doing it. If you want to talk to them about politics, do it somewhere it's not going down in family history as "The Thanksgiving where ____ and ____ almost killed each other."
buzzycrumbhunger
(1,491 posts)Its a HOLIDAY. It should be a day of camaraderie, rest, good food, friends, and family. Why should you suffer through something you know is going to be stressful? The pretense that you want to share this day with a family you dont have anything much in common with just sounds miserable.
I vote for visiting friends or helping at a community feedsomething the opposite of stressful that will leave you feeling happy at the end of the day. Make a new family and skip the guilt. Do what makes YOU happy because youre the one that matters and youre getting tied up in knots about offending people youd never be friends with if not for family ties. Even the MAGAts who are starting to wake up are not likely to be losing any sleep about making *you* comfortable, so why be a martyr? It feels like youd go more to make them feel good than benefitting yourself.
Mind you, I pretty much divorced my family two or three decades ago and have no regrets or longing to recapture what might have appeared to be a happy childhood. The fact that we happen to be related to people who have next to nothing in common with who we are now makes it seem silly to force interactions that only cause us stress. I bet making you comfortable is the last thing theyd consider.
Im sure their close proximity adds an extra layer of awkwardness but damn, place your own well-being at the forefront and give yourself a break. Holidays are stressful enough as it is.
tmars505
(28 posts)Hold your head up. Look them in the eye. And "take no guff when you strut your stuff". I'm 76 and I live in Redneck City, downtown Redneck City, and I have a hat that says "WOKE" and I wear it everywhere. And I know you don't want to hurt their feelings, but I have no problems doing that. I'm sorry to say, because I try to respect everybody, but the trumpistas do not deserve any body's respect. And since I don't respect them I don't care about their feelings.
Of course, following my advice would ruin Thanksgiving, but it may end up being very liberating for you, because you won't ever have to worry about saying the wrong thing again.