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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere Is No "Absolute Immunity," Damnit!
If there were, the ICE monsters could simply shoot everyone they suspected was an illegal immigrant and kill them. Obviously, they are not doing that, because they have no such "absolute immunity." It's very difficult for states to prosecute federal law enforcers who are enforcing federal laws. Not impossible, but very difficult.
In a just world, the Federal Government would prosecute such excesses of zeal that result in the deaths of civilians. The DOJ should prosecute. The FB:I should investigate fairly and without prejudice. The Federal Courts should have the trials and rule according to the law. That, sadly, is no longer happening. So, I don't know what the recourse is.
I do know that there is no such thing as "Absolute Immunity" for federal law enforcement personnel. Never has been. Never will be. Qualified Immunity, yes, but that's a completely different thing. J. D. Vance is a patent idiot. He knows nothing about such laws. Donald J. Trump is also ignorant of the law and simply says anything that comes to his mind.
LetMyPeopleVote
(175,054 posts)There is NO absolute immunity.
Today's "One First" explains why Stephen Miller is wrong that ICE officers have "federal immunity" from prosecution for all actions they take in their official duties, and that anyone attempting to prosecute them is committing a felony.
— Steve Vladeck (@stevevladeck.bsky.social) 2025-10-27T11:34:07.822Z
Supremacy Clause immunity is a thing, but it's *not* absolute:
https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/186-when-can-states-prosecute-federal
If the prisoner is held in the state court to answer for an act which he was authorized to do by the law of the United States, which it was his duty to do as [a federal officer] of the United States, and if in doing that act he did no more that what was necessary and proper for him to do, he cannot be guilty of a crime under the law[s] of the [state]. When these things are shown, it is established that he is innocent of any crime against the laws of the state, or of any other authority whatever. There is no occasion for any further trial in the state court, or in any court.
.......But what is clear is that Miller is wrong. Even at its most robust, Supremacy Clause immunity would not preclude a local or state prosecution of ICE officers for all scope-of-employment conduct. The question would turn, at least under Judge McConnells approach, on whether the officer had an objectively reasonable and well-founded basis to believe that his actions were necessary to fulfill his duties. That analysis may well come out in the officers favor in the mine run of cases. But it wouldnt (and, historically, hasnt) in all of them.1
To be sure, I still believe that the specter of criminal prosecutions, even by local or state officials, is a woefully inadequate deterrent for misconduct by federal law enforcement officers. Among lots of other things, there is plenty of law enforcement conduct that would constitute a violation of the Constitution but not of any state criminal statutes. Criminal prosecutions are for a subset of unlawful federal law enforcement activityalbeit the most important subset.
Still, two things can be true at once: There ought to be even more pathways for holding federal officers who violate our rights accountable; and local and state criminal prosecutions, in at least some cases, are not remotely foreclosedso that state officers who seek to pursue such cases in good faith are not committing any crimes under federal law. There may be political reasons why local or state prosecutors will be wary of bringing such cases. Butand I know this is a shockthe relevant law is far more permissive when it comes to the ability to hold federal officers accountable than Stephen Miller would have you believe.
The ICE agent can and will tried in state court
FBaggins
(28,646 posts)They are covered by supremacy clause immunity - but it certainly wouldn't allow them to "simply shoot everyone"
Though yes... the federal reluctance to prosecute is the weakness here.
mzmolly
(52,650 posts)AI generated some information on state options:
Immunity Does Not Apply: An Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agent uses excessive, unwarranted force against an unarmed person outside the scope of their lawful duties; they could face state prosecution.
They're trying to assert that Renee Good was armed with her vehicle, which of course is BS.
FBaggins
(28,646 posts)The problem is how you're reading "outside the scope of their lawful duties".
Example - A federal law enforcement officer is driving home from vacation and sees a hit-and-run. He turns his lights and sirens on and chases the perp down the highway at 100 mph. When he catches the fleeing target and pulls him over. An argument occurs and he ends up using excessive force (shooting the criminal). Assuming there is no shared federal/state jurisdiction (i.e., a national park), he can be arrested and charged for the assault. He can also be charged with reckless driving and felony speeding. He has no supremecy clause immunity. He also has no qualified immunity when the family sues him.
The same officer is on duty and sees a federal fugitive fleeing down the highway. He chases him at 100mph and the same altercation occurs. He could be charged federally, but it's unlikely that the state can do much of anything.
The question isn't whether the use of force was outside the scope of his duties. It's entirely about whether the enforcement action he was engaged in was part of his duties.
They're trying to assert that Renee Good was armed with her vehicle, which of course is BS.
It's BS because she clearly wasn't trying to hurt anyone and certainly wasn't a "domestic terrorist". But lots of people have been convicted of assault with a deadly weapon for driving their vehicle into someone.
leftstreet
(38,873 posts)This is a far, far cry from Trump's first term - bad enough when his TikiTorch crap got Heather Hayer(?) run over by a rightwing psycho
But this is federally sanctioned murder! And they're defending it
DURec
mzmolly
(52,650 posts)for their tyrranical deeds? These folks think they're acting without consequence. Hennepin County may disagree.