I would like to ask all the people who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton

[MIButterfly]

Last edited Sat Jan 10, 2026, 11:45 AM - Edit history (1)

for whatever reason in 2016, are you happy now? Is this so much better?

Thanks for nothing.

Edited to add: My comment is NOT directed toward anyone here at DU. That was not and is not my intention. I am truly sorry if it was interpreted that way. I would never disparage anyone at DU nor would I ever intentionally offend anyone here.

Please see my responses at nos. 4 and 19 for further clarification.

[milestogo]

1. This is Democratic Underground.

I don't think anyone here refused to vote for Hillary Clinton.

[MIButterfly]

4. Oh no, my post was not directed toward anybody here on DU;

it was a comment regarding those in the general public who so adamently opposed her. I would never disparage anyone here and I'm sorry if it was interpreted that way.

[PeaceWave]

10. I think you made yourself pretty clear. And, yes, one does wonder how those folks sleep at night.

[regnaD kciN]

26. Then why are you posting it here...?

[intheflow]

40. That's how I interpreted it, too.

So maybe you could edit your OP to note your comment isn't directed at DUers. Because I left DU for a while in 2016-17 due to the infighting over this. During that time, this kind of post was directed at DUers. It costs you nothing to clarify your intensions in the OP.

[MIButterfly]

61. Please see my responses #4 and #19. My comment was not directed to anyone here at DU.

But I will edit it anyway. Thank you.

[W_HAMILTON]

64. They say a hit dog will holler.

I didn't take it as personal criticism one bit because I wholeheartedly supported Hillary during the 2016 election and obviously knew they weren't referring to me.

Why would someone think the OP were talking about them, unless they refused to support Hillary back then?

[W_HAMILTON]

15. Sadly, I find myself often having to defend Democrats against bullshit attacks here.

[orangecrush]

42. Does that include

Fetteman?

Just curious.

[W_HAMILTON]

47. Sanders's good buddy? I defend the Democratic Party as a whole and don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

ESPECIALLY when the alternative is pure evil Republicans.

Is Fetterman the one Democrat you would defend?

[orangecrush]

49. He is my Senator

And as vehemently as I disagree with him most of the time lately, would still vote for him to defeat a Republican.

So you see, criticism and support are not mutually exclusive.

[W_HAMILTON]

50. Time is limited and every minute you spend attacking Democrats is a minute Republicans thank you for your service.

[orangecrush]

53. Criticism and attacking

Are not the same thing, last time I checked.

[SocialDemocrat61]

60. Criticizing is disagreeing on an issue or policy

of someone you support. Attacking is turning that issue or policy into a purity test and drawing a line in the sand over it.

[W_HAMILTON]

63. When one seems to spend all their time criticizing, it sure seems like attacking.

But either way, let's use your words -- the point still remains:

Time is limited and every minute you spend attacking criticizing Democrats is a minute Republicans thank you for your service.

Oh, and it's a minute you aren't attacking criticizing Republicans, which deserve it infinitely more so.

[SunImp]

66. Self Righteously lecturing others on how to act would also waste an equal amount of time

I'm sure they also give kudos to that.

[W_HAMILTON]

83. You think it's a waste of time trying to get people to focus on our real enemy rather than our imperfect allies?

I don't.

[sheshe2]

16. There used to be some 'Democrats' here, that weren't.

One called Hillary a 'Cunning Stunt" ( just change the position of a few letters) and was banned.

They left DU to join Jack Pine Radicals. Manny Goldstein (PPRed) admitted to being a Repuke and a member here for 10 years.

[W_HAMILTON]

27. And didn't that site eventually crash and burn?

Gee, I wonder where those Republican enablers slithered off to...

...or back to...

[betsuni]

33. Best evidence the site had nothing to do with progressive policy or progress of any kind: Elizabeth Warren.

Beloved progressive icon, "I'd vote for a woman, just not THAT woman, I'd totally vote for Elizabeth Warren" they all swore.

Immediately after Warren announced her run for president the knives were out at JPR: Hillary 2.0, corporate shill, establishment, used to be a Republican, said she was capitalist in her bones, Pocahontas, "schoolmarm" etc.

It was all like that. For nothing, knowing nothing. Only against.

Tulsi Gabbard, though, was always everyone's fav because she was just like them.

[W_HAMILTON]

37. Yep!

The "you have to give someone a reason to vote FOR you, not just a reason to vote against your opponent!" crowd sure loved doing the complete opposite -- and the opponents of these self-proclaimed progressives were most often good Democrats with ACTUAL progressive accomplishments.

Case in point: Elizabeth Warren.

[yardwork]

39. That site was funded by Putin as one part of the 2016 disinformation campaign.

I'm sure there were thousands of similar sites created by Russian trolls. The disinformation campaign in 2016 has been well documented.

The disturbing part is that hundreds of longtime DUers left here to become part of the Russian campaign against Hillary Clinton.

And some have quietly returned. Did they learn anything?

[sheshe2]

48. Yes indeed, it crashed and burned,

as did Disscussionist (I think that is what it was called).

Hmmm, I wonder.

[awesomerwb1]

82. You would be wrong

Quite a few bernie fanatics on here still who wanted to "blow it all up" because the "the establishment" blah blah blah.

[Shellback Squid]

2. lol, it's been awhile since anyone here has reproached people who didn't like Hillary

the current reproach is usually directed at those who had issues with Kamala, btw, I voted and donated to both

[MIButterfly]

5. It does go back to 2016.

To me, there was no good reason not to vote for her, especially considering who her opponent was. And it eventually led to where we are now.

[karynnj]

52. I agree that the world would be in a different place

However, the same could be said of 2000, where Gore actually won but the Supreme Court awarded it to Bush. While 911 would possibly still have happened, the response would have been different.

Had Kerry won in 2004, which could have happened if everyone who went out to vote for him could have easily and expeditiously voted in Ohio, he would have nominated 2 Supreme Court justices, not named Roberts and Alito. This would have changed the Citizens United decision and by 2008 the Supreme Court would have been 5/4 in our favor even counting Kennedy as conservative when he was really a swing vote.

You could even look at 2008. Clinton winning the Presidency would likely have changed history. How I don't know. I don't know if Clinton/ (rumored to be Bayh) would have passed healthcare. Would we still have ended up with 60 Senators even briefly? Would having Senator Obama available to run in a later open primary have made us stronger now?

You could even go back and consider whether 1992 could have led to a better result with a President Jerry Brown, Tom Harkin, Paul Tsongus (if he did not have cancer) or Mario Cuomo if he had opted to run. With Perot attacking as a libertarian and Bush looking very weak, it most likely was a Democratic year.

What I still can not intellectually or emotionally understand is how Trump won after everything we knew.

[RandomNumbers]

55. And it does go beyond "well I voted for her in the General Election"

Folks here should take note. Spar in the primaries REASONABLY. Assume that any of the top 2 or 3 primary contenders WILL be the nominee - and it may not be the one you prefer.

The crap stirred up in primaries will come back to bite in the general. I know too many people IRL who had knives out for Hillary even after the primary, then grudgingly agreed to vote for her once it became clear TO THEM that she was indeed the nominee and that would not change. But it was too late to take away damage they had done in their circles of contacts who didn't understand the stakes well enough. Shorter version - they suppressed D votes in the general by their earlier success at convincing people they should "never" vote for Hillary no matter what.

Keep criticism to policies and why you prefer your preferred candidate. No amplifying CT or irrelevant bullshit against the others.

Whoever the R's put up in 2028 - it won't be TSF, and I'm not seeing it be Vance - there is no planet on which the D candidate will be worse. (unless we truly get rolled by AI gimmicks and some fascist plant somehow wins - not beyond imagination for that to happen, but extremely unlikely)

[gab13by13]

3. I would rather see articles that Kamala won,

which I believe she did.

I would rather see articles that showed how Russia interfered in Hillary's election.

There's a cure for the next election that I am pushing for, don't run a politician for president, run a Malcoln Nance-like candidate, or even run someone like Miles Taylor who is a Republican on the Democratic ticket.

Shouldn't be any infighting then, run the toughest SOB out there.

[Hope22]

30. This!

Actual reasons why elections were ‘lost’! I’m very concerned that we have yet to get a handle on what tom fuckrry Elon pulled for T! Im pretty sure that Russia tanked Hillary! How many times do we have to go back to this merciless rehashing. I’m pretty sure the monster will not permit fair elections next time around. Even if the computers aren’t hacked who will go to the polls with ICE hanging around. This is beyond surreal! We need to be thinking about the next Presidential election and what can possibly be done at this late date to secure it!!

The first year Ohio got computerized machines I was at a poll worker training session and the Diebold tech weenie did his dog and pony show. After the class all but a few were still lingering I asked the tech if the machines were connected to the internet! He asked me in a snide way if I had seen him hook a wire to it! Now in this day and age my home computer was wireless. What a stupid reply! The director of the BOE was standing there and I wasn’t about to get into it with either one of them. Well at election time I did not get asked to work the polls after working over ten years. The next year I got a card in the mail reminding me of the upcoming poll worker training. I called the office wondering why I had used my time for training last election and wasn’t asked to work. The staff member said she was sure I was asked because they were short on poll workers last time. I said no I wasn’t and she said she would let the director know and get back to me. I got a call from the director and asked him why I was not asked to work….well Hope we can’t have you seeding doubt on the voters. I told him to ask anyone who had worked with me and they would tell him I had integrity and that my fellow poll workers wanted me there because at the end of the day our tally would be correct. After a moment of silence he said…you can work. That is why I have zero confidence that Elon did not pull a major heist last time. We need to clean this crap up if we want to win but once again we are toooo late for 2026!!!!!

[questionseverything]

81. Since no one can oversee the inner workings of the computers

That count and report votes, no one can prove the truth and it’s illegal to handcount ballots in most states

So we live with what the republican made machines tell us

[Intractable]

6. This again?

[Cha]

20. Yes.

[MIButterfly]

22. Thank you, Cha!

[Cha]

24. No Problem... We need to learn from

the past.. Pay Attention to our History. Not sure why anyone would want to forget it.

I certainly won't

Carry On!

[iemanja]

7. How many people here do you think refused to vote for Hillary?

[sheshe2]

18. Well...a lot of them went to JPR (Jack Pine Radicals).

Manny Goldstein, WillyT and friends. WillyT, if you ever worked in MIRT has tried to come back many times. They walk among us.

[Hope22]

31. Out of curiosity..

Is JPR even a thing anymore?

[sheshe2]

51. Nope. Crashed. Burned. Died.

[Hope22]

58. Thanks...nt

[PeaceWave]

32. I just dug up an old (2019) DU thread discussing JPR and one thing jumped off the page...

The demographics of DU appears to have totally flipped from just six years ago. The entire thread was dominated by centrists. By comparison, centrists now appear few and far between in these parts.

https://democraticunderground.com/100212002484

[MIButterfly]

19. I wasn't talking about the people here.

I was talking about people in the general population who just couldn't "in good conscience" vote for her; the people who were against her because of one issue or one little comment she made, etc.

I realize that the MSM and Republicans have demonized the Clintons for years and that's certainly a part of it, but people who should've known better stayed home or voted third party for whatever reasons they had. Those are the people I was referring to.

[Skittles]

72. I know there were some

oh yes

[usonian]

8. I don't think a guilt trip helps people change.

A ton has gond on since. Good and bad.

People need to get excited, either out of "The new revolutionary Democratic Party" that we are building (or else we lose everything) or just plain rage at the destruction.

Guilt can nudge, but has no power.

Who will lead? People who are leading today. You know their names because they care so damn much that they are attacking fascism rather than waiting until it's "safe" to come out.

I/we want fighters.
I/we way winners.

Silence is damn near complicity.

It's not just because people have short memories. It's that change is massive and rapid.

You can't look back.
The battle is in front of us.

[SunImp]

11. It looks like some people can't let go of old battles

Shame the replies were pretty sane & reasonable too

[usonian]

14. There were and are massive disinformation campaigns, AB's largely by bots.

Emails, Gaza. All massively amplified by media and bots. AI makes orders of magnitude worse.

A short time ago, "undressing" apps were secretive. Musk put them in the hands of every registered user. They are NOTHING BUT ABUSIVE.

A campaign has to be an overwhelming force to counter the garbage.

With great clarity, focus and purpose.

Otherwise the others get to define us.
Again.

Then, people can't see the forest for the trees.

[SocialDemocrat61]

38. Those who fail from history

are doomed to repeat is.

They played purity politics with Clinton in 16, then did it again with Harris in 24. And there are some still doing it now with democrats.

[BoycottTwitter]

9. It's sad but we cannot change the past

I sometimes find myself thinking about this too. If Clinton would have won we would be in a so much better place right now. Maybe we'd have universal healthcare, climate change would be addressed better, way less COVID deaths, maybe no war in Ukraine and most importantly Trump likely would have faded into obscurity and the supreme court would be normal. Also I think the economy would be working a lot better for the average person instead of the billionaires.

Sadly though this is in the past and we cannot change our past but we can learn from the past and change our actions to shape the future.

This year we must fight super hard never give up and speak out constantly and always be relentless in spreading our message and advocating FOR democrats not just being against Republicans and really doing politics to change the hearts and minds of this country. We must also teach Democrats to always vote even when a candidate isn't perfect because we agree on most issues and we will not stay home because of a single issue.

[MIButterfly]

17. Thank you, BoycottTwitter, for your very reasoned and reasonable response.

I appreciate it. By the way, I like your user name!

[Cha]

21. But We Can Work For a Better Future.. and

part of that is remembering the Past and learning from it

[thought crime]

12. I'm really glad that we'll have really good candidates in 2028

Hopefully including Kamala Harris.

[yaesu]

13. One of the biggest missed opportunities of the 21st century. nt

[kimbutgar]

23. Just watched on tubi Blind faith

And the religious right is responsible for this abomination in our Country,

[BurnDoubt]

25. Hillary had Putin's number.

That’s why “Russia, Russia, Russia”.

I hope we get our Democracy back. We clearly don’t deserve it.

If we do, the FIRST thing we do should be shit-canning Citizens’ United, then Nationalize the Tech-Bros' Empire… “Move Fast and Break Things”.

Since “Over-Reach” is a THING now.

Elect Kamala Prez.
Appoint Hillary to the Supreme Court, even if just long enough to close the books on MAGA.

[PeaceWave]

29. Wow. You laid down a lot of truth in just a few words.

[betsuni]

28. Fascinating election, should be far more studies about it. A perfect storm of mis/disinformation and other things.

Mild-mannered Midwestern Methodist ("do all the good you can" ) whose career was helping people, first person you'd call if you needed help and the person who'd call you because she heard about a problem (like the Flint, Michigan water crisis), became so many different monsters depending on what propaganda you were targeted with and believed.

Susan Bordo (who thanks CNN's Jeffrey Toobin for being the only one publicly apologizing in 2018 for his role in the false equivalence):

"Yes, we have to 'move on' -- if that means we need to work on creating a better future. But if it means we should stop dissecting, analyzing, and critiquing how the disaster of 2016 happened, I don't agree. The fact is we should be 'relitigating' the past all the time. It's called examining history. It's called exposing mythology and unearthing truth. It's called speaking truth to the power that was -- and that still, unfortunately, is"

If examining history makes one upset and lash out... Better to deal with it so it doesn't happen again. Next election will deal with same problems, Democrats attacked from all directions and people gullibly believing it.

[RandiFan1290]

34. Never saw that on DU

But I do remember the many members of PUMA that were here.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

35. I would go back even further to 2000

How many people, especially in Florida, voted for Ralph Nader.

[SocialDemocrat61]

36. Green Candidate Jill Stein

[The Wizard]

56. The Russian asset, Jill Stein,

is a Putin ally who is working to undo the Western Alliance.

[mcar]

41. Ah yes, the "conscience voters"

Many left this site in 2016 because they were not allowed to call HRC a "c" word - seriously.

I am sure they are still secure in their self-righteousness.

[SocialDemocrat61]

45. They weren't voting their conscience

they were voting their ego. Voting your conscience requires voting for someone who you may not be 100% comfortable with but is better than the alternative.

[mcar]

46. That is 100% correct

[GusBob]

43. Whatever happened to all them Bernie Bros?

[Skittles]

73. oh they are still around

[orangecrush]

44. I stood in line for 2 hours in freezing cold

To see Hillary Clinton speak at Mercyhurst College in Erie Pa. while she was campaigning.

I most certainly voted for her, though she wasn't my first choice.

And I will stand for no one telling me I don't have a right to criticize any Democrat if I feel it is merited.

Criticism and support ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

[mr715]

70. Criticism and support are complementary nt

[pandr32]

54. I often think about this.

There are people around me who are vocal about hating Dementia Don now, but I fought with them about their support for Jill Stein because they were against Hillary after Bernie didn't get the nod. I was a Hillary Clinton delegate.
When I hear these people criticize donny and this regime, particularly losing our democracy and international standing, I bristle.

[Duncan Grant]

57. I can't think of a more irrelevant discussion to have -- 10 years later.

Personally, there is a wave of oppression coming right at me. It’s vindictive, dangerous and nearly impossible to eradicate. What benefit is it to me to whine about 2016? Do what’s true for you, DUers. To each their own.

[SocialDemocrat61]

59. Those who fail to learn from history

are doomed to repeat it. Some failed to learn from the 2000 election and repeated it in 16. Then they failed to learn from 16 and repeated it in 24.

[mr715]

74. And

those that fail to adapt go extinct.

[SocialDemocrat61]

76. Very true

The trick is to adapt without repeating mistakes from the past.

[mr715]

79. We disagree sometimes

but we're Democrats so that is allowed. Even encouraged.

There is a very difficult balance between the imperative to learn from the past while adapting to novel conditions. As I ruminate on a lot of what I post in this community, I've wondered if "leadership" as I think of it is an awareness of this balance.

Your insight is always appreciated.

[SocialDemocrat61]

80. In any organization

political or commercial, there will be those who will say 'this is the way we always did it'. And there are those who just want to throw everything old out and do things completely differently. It's always a balancing act.

[mr715]

84. Well, except where orthodoxy is required

as in cults or in MAGA. The past never happened, it is only the dictates of the present which project forward and backward in time infinitely. Retcons.

[Xavier Breath]

65. Amen.

[SunImp]

67. In past threads like this

There has been more lashing out at Dem/undecided voters then actually examining what happened.

[questionseverything]

78. They do it to distract and divide us

It serves no other purpose

[ffr]

62. 100% The people who line up with SS tRump need to stop hiding their shame and own this.

Murder and shootings by federal agents on the streets of this country. This is what they brought, you un-serious people! Own it, you bastards!

[Tree Lady]

68. Part of it had nothing to do with Hillary

But the way Bernie was treated at the end. Many of his followers went ahead and voted for her like me but I know some who didn't like my grandson.

I think when we run a very progressive candidate that young people are excited about we need to try harder to win them over after the primary.

There still is a lot of posts here I see against Bernie folks and it's that type of stuff that caused people to sit out 2016.

[PeaceWave]

69. How do you "win them over" when the candidate himself didn't wholeheartedly embrace Hillary?

I read in an old DU thread from that time that Bernie supporters were chanting "Lock her up" at our own convention. Seriously, what the hell is that?

https://time.com/4423362/democratic-convention-bernie-sanders-revolution/

"A day of protests, booing and open dissent on Monday at the Democratic convention threatened to derail the party’s moment in the spotlight, exposing the fault lines that have divided the Democrats throughout the contentious primary between Sanders and Hillary Clinton. Inside the DNC convention hall, Sanders’ delegates shouted “Bernie! Bernie!” booed Clinton surrogates and even briefly broke into the “Lock Her Up!” chant favored by Donald Trump supporters."

[Tree Lady]

86. Wasn't anybody I knew

I lived in a very progressive area of CA at the time and only way I could get my grandson to vote was for Bernie.

Now years later he is one of those young disaffected males in our society. Doesn’t vote thank god because it wouldn’t go for us.

I just think we need to do more for the young men.

[mr715]

75. In part

Sen. Sanders' appeal was that he was anti-establishment, which is sexy but meaningless.

[Tree Lady]

87. He still says the same things he has

Been fighting for all his career, universal healthcare and college kids can afford and fixing the environment.

The only reason he is antiestablishment is because main stream candidates go along with for profit healthcare.

I remember when healthcare was affordable and when it was not for profit when I grew up.

It feels like more and more are being privatized for the rich to profit over us being sick or people going to jail or just keeping warm. Utility bills are so high now people can’t afford to stay warm.

I had two of my roommates in college marry Canadians and now having been in Canada 50 years they are citizens, using the healthcare with no problem one in BC and one in Toronto area. Part of why I feel the way I do.

[Skittles]

71. they don't care

hating on POC and women trumps common sense and decency

[Beartracks]

77. IKR? So many seem to think a Democrat has to match them on Every. Single. Issue. to "earn" their vote.

Our job as voters is to keep pushing the government in a liberal/progressive direction, every election, and very often that means voting for candidates who we don't agree with on every single thing but who are at least pulling in the same general direction as us. To not do this means that there is one less vote being applied in that liberal/progressive direction, which grants one more vote's momentum to the side that pulls in the opposite direction. Democracy often involves relentless incrementalism, but we must be relentless at it.

=================

[PJMcK]

85. Trump is an idiot

If he were presented with hard evidence he was wrong about something he would simply declare it fake news, just as always.