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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe view from 50,000 feet:
When I was a kid, there were two situations which perplexed me terribly. The first was the assassination of President Kennedy and the second was the nature of the hierarchy in the US space program.
Those of us who watched the aftermath of the assassination knew there was much more complexity to this story than the media and law enforcement was stating. It was clear, even to a ten year old that there was some sort of a coverup just in the manner in which the facts were presented, coincidences dismissed, witnesses who were utterly disregarded, and evidence ignored. It was as obvious then as the Trump people are now in this miasma of corrupt lies and felonious behaviors. (As an aside, if youre a proponent/fan of the Oswald-as-lone-nut theory, may God bless you and keep you.)
Watching the origins of NASA, as someone who lost one entire side of my family in the Holocaust, the fact that these Nazis, who developed the technology, remarkable at the time to launch rockets with explosive warheads into Britain, were heralded as the heroes of our post-war America. Believe me when I tell you that many veterans, especially of the European Theater were not happy about this, but the Space Race with the USSR was of paramount importance and we were to let bygones be bygones.
So this was the foundation of my lifelong skepticism and I constantly found myself wondering how come individuals and corporations managed to get away with all kinds of stuff which seemed to transcend the money passed explanation.
I believe I have my answer. Jeffrey E. Is hardly the first individual who has brokered this horrifying industry of sexual criminality and perversion, but he is the victim, as it were of the Internet Era. In the past, there was no central repository for information or connectivity but with our electronic version of Asimovs Encyclopedia Galactica, we now have it. And there is one critical truth, at least I believe it to be the truth, which has come out of this, and that is this: We now know that when there is a missing puzzle piece, something which makes little or no sense for being withheld or not-occurring, there is a very good chance that someone or possibly several or even many, are in a photographic or video file which would destroy them if released. A tale as old as time, as the lyric goes
.
So remember what seems like an eon ago when Trump, at the Republican Primary debates, abused the other candidates unmercifully and they just stood there with frozen smiles on their faces? They were terrified to open their mouths. I recall sitting there shrieking at Jeb, Marco, Ted, and the rest of them, What the fuck are you doing just standing there while this lunatic defames you and your families and for Carly Fiorina, that and your looks??? My God, these people werent working in a warehouse somewhere, they were governors, senators, president of a multinational corporation. And this swindler con man gets to insult you with no response?
The above I believe, is why. You may extrapolate to everything and everyone else. The fix is in my friends. We shall see what happens with the former Prince Andrew, Im certain it will be complex.
Thank you for your attention in this matter (sic and sick).
Trueblue Texan
(4,285 posts)After witnessing Lindsay Grahams behavior. Not much of a stretch to see the same dynamics at work in the other Rethug sheep.
bucolic_frolic
(54,633 posts)___________
This video blundered onto my YouTube feed a few days ago. There is so much the public is not informed about in regards to many things. I watched this whole video, I think it's genuine history and not AI slop.
Kid Berwyn
(23,841 posts)In support of that important video above: One month after the assassination, President Harry S Truman expressed public concern CIA had strayed off the reservation from intelligence gathering of foreign news sources to cloak-and-dagger operations.
Limit CIA Role To Intelligence
By Harry S Truman
The Washington Post, December 22, 1963 - page A11
INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 I think it has become necessary to take another look at the purpose and operations of our Central Intelligence AgencyCIA. At least, I would like to submit here the original reason why I thought it necessary to organize this Agency during my Administration, what I expected it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of the President.
I think it is fairly obvious that by and large a President's performance in office is as effective as the information he has and the information he gets. That is to say, that assuming the President himself possesses a knowledge of our history, a sensitive understanding of our institutions, and an insight into the needs and aspirations of the people, he needs to have available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute information on what is going on everywhere in the world, and particularly of the trends and developments in all the danger spots in the contest between East and West. This is an immense task and requires a special kind of an intelligence facility.
Of course, every President has available to him all the information gathered by the many intelligence agencies already in existence. The Departments of State, Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly engaged in extensive information gathering and have done excellent work.
But their collective information reached the President all too frequently in conflicting conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended to be slanted to conform to established positions of a given department. This becomes confusing and what's worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President in reaching the right decisions.
Therefore, I decided to set up a special organization charged with the collection of all intelligence reports from every available source, and to have those reports reach me as President without department "treatment" or interpretations.
I wanted and needed the information in its "natural raw" state and in as comprehensive a volume as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But the most important thing about this move was to guard against the chance of intelligence being used to influence or to lead the President into unwise decisionsand I thought it was necessary that the President do his own thinking and evaluating.
Since the responsibility for decision making was histhen he had to be sure that no information is kept from him for whatever reason at the discretion of any one department or agency, or that unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always those who would want to shield a President from bad news or misjudgments to spare him from being "upset."
For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded our difficulties in several explosive areas.
I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigueand a subject for cold war enemy propaganda.
With all the nonsense put out by Communist propaganda about "Yankee imperialism," "exploitive capitalism," "war-mongering," "monopolists," in their name-calling assault on the West, the last thing we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as something akin to a subverting influence in the affairs of other people.
I well knew the first temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the highest character, patriotism and integrityand I assume this is true of all those who continue in charge.
But there are now some searching questions that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as the intelligence arm of the President, and that whatever else it can properly perform in that special fieldand that its operational duties be terminated or properly used elsewhere.
We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and open society. There is something about the way the CIA has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our historic position and I feel that we need to correct it.
SOURCE: http://www.maebrussell.com/Prouty/Harry%20Truman's%20CIA%20article.html
That would be better known, but for some reason it got left out of the afternoon edition and out of most all of the nations other newspapers.
To put some emphasis on Trumans essay, former CIA Director Allen Dulles tried to get a retraction:
Are Presidents Afraid of the CIA?
By Ray McGovern
December 29, 2009
Excerpt
Fox Guarding Hen House
The well-connected Dulles got himself appointed to the Warren Commission and took the lead in shaping the investigation of JFKs assassination.
Documents in the Truman Library show that he then mounted a small domestic covert action of his own to neutralize any future airing of Trumans and Souerss warnings about covert action.
So important was this to Dulles that he invented a pretext to get himself invited to visit Truman in Independence, Missouri. On the afternoon of April 17, 1964, Dulles spent a half-hour trying to get the former President to retract what he had said in his op-ed. No dice, said Truman.
No problem, thought Dulles. Four days later, in a formal memo for his old buddy Lawrence Houston, CIA General Counsel from 1947 to 1973, Dulles fabricated a private retraction, claiming that Truman told him the Washington Post article was all wrong, and that Truman seemed quite astounded at it.
No doubt Dulles thought it might be handy to have such a memo in CIA files, just in case.
A fabricated retraction? It certainly seems so, because Truman did not change his tune. Far from it.
In a June 10, 1964, letter to the managing editor of Look magazine, for example, Truman restated his critique of covert action, emphasizing that he never intended the CIA to get involved in strange activities.
CONTINUED...
SOURCE: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/122909b.html
Truman did not point a finger of blame at CIA, Secret Service cough Rowley, the Mafia or anyone. However, it is difficult to think of an innocent explanation for Mr. Dulles response and actions months before he would be appointed to the Warren Commission, where he covered up the CIA-Mafia Castro assassination plots and a whole lot more.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 19, 2026, 10:59 AM - Edit history (1)
heard former NAZIS linked to that program. To the development of our own Nuclear program and other ballistic military weapons, absolutely. But, while I am fully open to the possibility that MSM did not report it or I missed it. I am very well educated and, since teen years, have kept up closely with tv, radio, and newspaper sources of news and to be honest, your comment is the first time I have seen that association made. Could I have missed it during my decades of back to back long shifts in the ER or during my many years of training? Yes. But, while I am not doubting you (and I absolutely have excoriated the pragmatism that accompanied the NAZI expertise that guided our military programs post WWII--despite knowing that all who came here may not have been EQUALLY culpable for the crimes of the NAZIs, but still...) I have not seen reporting that the worst of the worst of NAZIs were celebrated as the heroes of NASA. Sincerely, I have not.
That said, what happened to your family is unbelievably horrific and sad to me and I would certainly be sensitized to these issues in your shoes as well. So, if I missed it, I am sorry. I do still praise the NASA of the JFK years for their astounding accomplishments and hope that there was little, if any, direct praise for those whose work was rightfully marred by their prior acts or allegiances to Hitler's horror. NASA today has been so dismantled and all-but-destroyed, given Trump and Musk, that I doubt there is any legacy left. So there is that. I find that sad as well. Even if you have nothing but disdain for the NASA program, I'd find that cold comfort. But, I do understand.
PCIntern
(28,135 posts)Headed the V-2 program in Nazi Germany and the space program here. On the front pages of newspapers for decades.
Fix The Stupid
(999 posts)Just unbelievable that people did not know this.
And to come in so hot, so sure... and we wonder why you have the president you do...
Can't shake my head enough.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)My post full response is below.
Attack me as you like. But it is cowardly not to do so directly.
Fix The Stupid
(999 posts)How did you not know this?
When you come in so strong, so sure, the question needs to be asked... everyday people outside of the US ask "how??? how can the US be so stupid to elect this idiot twice???"...then we get a post on a board supposedly filled with 'smart people' and that exchange takes place...just jarring to the average reader.
Now we get paragraphs of 'justifications' and goal post moving.
Operation Paperclip. Look it up.
I'm done here.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)but I have always found that most are not intentionally uncivil and insulting-quite the opposite. And given, no one on this site is MAGA, you can spare me the quite true and uncontested comparison of Trump/MAGA responses and attitudes to Canadians DUers on the whole are definitely the opposite.
Enjoy your time on DU--though I would hope you would adopt a more typically polite style of interaction.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)As a young man, von Braun worked in Nazi Germany's rocket development program. He helped design and co-developed the V-2 rocket at Peenemünde Army Research Center during World War II. The V-2 became the first artificial object to travel into space by crossing the Kármán line on 20 June 1944. Following the war, he was secretly moved to the United States, along with about 1,600 other German scientists, engineers, and technicians, as part of Operation Paperclip.[6] He worked for the United States Army on an intermediate-range ballistic missile program, and he developed the rockets that launched the United States' first space satellite Explorer 1 in 1958. He worked with Walt Disney on a series of films, which popularized the idea of human space travel in the US and beyond from 1955 to 1957.[7]
In 1960, his group was assimilated into NASA, where he served as director of the newly formed Marshall Space Flight Center and as the chief architect of the Saturn V super heavy-lift launch vehicle that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon.[8][9] In 1967, von Braun was inducted into the National Academy of Engineering, and in 1975, he received the National Medal of Science.
Von Braun is seen by some as escaping justice for his awareness of Nazi war crimes due to the Americans' desire to beat the Soviets in the Cold War.[10][11][5] He is also sometimes described by others as the "father of space travel",[12] the "father of rocket science",[13] or the "father of the American lunar program".[10] Towards the end of his career, he also advocated a human mission to Mars.
Sorry, PCINTERN, I just cannot conflate the two. Yes, he was German. Yes he became an aerospace engineer and was thus assimilated into Hitler's scientific development. Might he have emigrated/escaped to avoid that? I don't know. But, it is not clear the extent as described: "awareness of Nazi war crimes due to American's desire to beat the Soviets in the Cold War " was designed to aid prior Nazi officials from facing justice by Americans, Europeans, or Soviets post WWII. If you study Nuremberg (as I have) there was little consideration to trying those who did not personally participate in all that we now consider to be Holocaust. His scientific endeavors certainly aided the war effort. No doubt, but, I think this is a "Sophie's Choice" for the US faced with these scientists and their abilities that could guide US military and scientific efforts or to allow other nations (including USSR) from garnering them first. Someone was going to. I am conflicted. But, I do see differences.
PCIntern
(28,135 posts)He was an unrepentant Nazi. Thats why Kubrick mocked him in Dr Strangelove. There were no apologies worth anything from him to the day he died.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)a major proportion of Congress in the 1930s and onward, why stop there? The groups that tried to defeat Roosevelt and to assist Hitler in gaining a foothold in the US:
America First
German American Bund
Silver Legion
Christian Front
Al those groups and more were actively promoting and later worked to cover up the NAZI atrocities. They were Americans. Despicable as one can describe, yet NOTHING happened to them. Let us include them in a full accounting. So, many: Father Coughlin, Sen. Burton Wheeler (MT), Garland Alderman (violence-promoting leger of America First), Gerald Nye (ND), George Viereck, Sen. Ernest Lundeen, Leon Lewis, William Dudley Paley, Congressman Hamilton Fish III, and so many others.
I know of nothing any of those mentioned or the many others I have not--all Americans--did to atone, make amends, or do anything to obviate the damage and near loss of this country to Nazism and to Hitler.
They did not live in Germany at the time and thus were not FORCED to behave and act on behalf of Hitler as they did in this country. That is the main difference I see in them and the NASA-"founder," Werner von Braun. Perhaps his support for Nazism extended to promoting the Holocaust. If so, I would agree with you, but I would appreciate your directing me to that information.
Since you have made a comparison of my commentary and questions with re: Werner von Braun to Kubrick mocking him in Dr Strangelove, I would appreciate your responding to my inquiry. You state that "There were no apologies worth anything from him to the day he died." By that I assume you mean that he DID make apologies that you construe as self-serving and insincere. Perhaps so. Can you expand on that?
If you prefer to let your Canadian poster upstream who derided me (and most Americans) as "unbelievably stupid" and went on to attack others on this site for the election of Trump, then feel free not to answer, but I think the many years we have cordially interacted her together might warrant more than that. I do not believe I have ever been less than polite with you--even where we disagree. I'm not sure we even disagree at all now. I simply ask you to clarify and yes, politely educate me where appropriate.
PCIntern
(28,135 posts)Included thousands of individuals who had been in Concentration Camps. Von Braun knew EXACTLY what what was going on. Ill tell you what: YOU supply ME with frank apologies uttered or written by this NAZI who was responsible for mass murders of civilians. I think its incumbent upon you to do so, given your response.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)He may be as derision-worthy as you suggest. But you have answered zero of the questions I had about your assertions. Surely if you feel the historical record so clearly supports that he was an unrepentant NAZI (which I have already agreed with you that he may well have been and more than just a scientist extorted into the war effort), you can educate me.
Apparently you aren't interested in polite discourse. Okay. I have stated all along that I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment but I have not seen the direct evidence that you claim to have seen. Educate me. Or not.
PCIntern
(28,135 posts)I was making a broad assertion about America and that perhaps the reason strange occurrences are not remarked upon or acted upon is that there is a world of blackmailing which is prevalent. I lived through this era and was subjected to plenty of anti-semitism from Nazi sympathizers who believed that they were under the radar. Von Braun, among others, was their hero.
hlthe2b
(113,375 posts)As one whose father and three uncles served in the European or Pacific theaters, yet survived to come home and another uncle, did not, I have long wanted to understand as much as I can about that period and what caused people (especially Germans) to act as they did. Seeing the eery repetition today, I am particularly questioning what I know (and do not).
We'll leave it there.