General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat am I supposed to be outraged about?
Someone help me out. All I see is how awful and terrible this deal is here on DU and on certain liberal sites. I don't see that. Do I think this deal is ideal? No. Not at all. But really, how is this at all bad? We're getting roughly $750 billion in new revenue entirely from taxes on the top, no cuts at all in entitlements, and an extension of unemployment insurance. It's really a very basic, bare bones deal. I don't get what I'm supposed to be so upset about. It's not a perfect deal, I wouldn't even say it's that good, but it's certainly not bad and if you would've told me a couple weeks ago that this would've been the deal, I gladly would have taken it.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)But people love to wet their pants with anything they can find to fill up their collective bitching bladder.
You can't please all of the people all the time , and then : you can't please some people , no matter how hard you try . And some people just like to complain , regardless .
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)they have forgotten their logic and common sense and are like a raging mob where mob mentality has taken over their senses.
Comrade_McKenzie
(2,526 posts)It is unbearable.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)i remember a time on DU when your name alone would have singled you out as a fake liberal
'comrade'
thats the thing about the internet..
nobody will ever know where you really lie in your political beliefs..
your word against someone elses
i could call myself prettypinkelephantnumber3 but it wouldnt make me one :p
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Where's my free LSD?????
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)sounds like something a right winger would say :p
infact, i think ive had something to that effect said to me on several occasions...
im a liberal so im a dirty drug loving hippy with dreams of some mythical utopia full of peace and love..
yup, heard that before.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)I just happen to understand how things work.
Obama is moving us in the right direction and that is quite an accomplishment with the proto-fascist U.S. republican party still with so much power.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)some people expect too much IMO.
Lex
(34,108 posts)I figured the deal would not be great.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Someone will be along shortly to tell you why. I have no idea, so we'll have to wait for someone to tell us what to be outraged about. I have absolute confidence that such a person will inform us soon, so we can begin our outrage.
Igel
(35,317 posts)No, you have to start your outrage now.
The outrage evaluators will monitor you and assign you a reason based upon the observed extent and quality of the outrage you show.
Can't have important things assigned to paltry outrages or petty things assigned to huge, towering outrages.
First begin, and at some point "why" will become known.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)to make room for this new one.
oldhippydude
(2,514 posts)that is the death (albeit slowly) of the tax argument that the right wingers have used for the last 30 years.... Grover is well on his way to being Grover who? that's a big fuggen deal
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)but seem to miss this point. That Grover's no tax alliance has burst into flames.
Lex
(34,108 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)but I will let others voice their opinions. I shouldn't paint with broad brush strokes but the sentiment is there. Understandably given what is at stake, but still some need to be realistic.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)a 25% increase in the capital gains tax rate, as opposed to a 34% increase, topped off with no cuts to spending. This is significant giveaway to the 1% for no progress at in any of the areas that must be addressed if we're to slow the downward spiral of Main Street.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)when it comes time to raise the debt limit.
This deal should be allowed to fall through.
We need a comprehensive deal that includes raising the debt ceiling.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Did not want SS on the table. What we're hearing about this deal actually sounds pretty good to me. Tax rates going up on the wealthy, including Estate Tax rates. Unemployment extension. I don't see a need for outrage if this is where we end up.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)in the midst of sackcloths and ashes over moving from tax increases on incomes >$250k to incomes >$450k.
At this point, that's mere haggling.
ms liberty
(8,577 posts)Well, everything, of course!
I did not come up with HairOnFireUnderground, but I can' t credit the DU'er because I can' t remember who it was...but it is too appropriate to not use, LOL!
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)It was me ... its open source, no TM, no copyright, no fees!!!
Sophiegirl
(2,338 posts)Non-taxable?
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Fiscal cliff!!!
ms liberty
(8,577 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)i would ask people to think about why they like the deal.
You can like every centrist policy we see, you can even like conservative policies if you want. Just think about why, is it because you like it or because you like Obama and want to defend everything he does. The latter reason is a bad reason imo.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Would prefer more, such as $250k instead of $400k for the tax increases, but negotiation means not getting everything.
What, exactly, is not to like about those three items?
Enrique
(27,461 posts)raising it even higer to 450K pisses me off. Plus I've heard that these cuts will be permanent, which makes it even worse.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Child tax credit is a HUGE cut for working families, and you want to take that away. Aside from raising their headline tax rate.
All so that you can mildly inconvenience those making between (whatever number you call 'rich') and $450k.
RC
(25,592 posts)Isn't $250,000 something like the upper 10% or such?
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)But I agree. The conversation is all in the wrong direction. We shouldn't be discussing INCREASING the income inflection point, we should be talking about decreasing it. If we are talking about "stop gap" measures, I'd suggest only addressing $50K and below until a larger deal is struck. Write the "truly needy" bill and push it through, with the understanding that there is another bill that needs to be done for the 'middle class".
By the by, anyone else notice that the same day we started talking about moving to 450K and above, the congress got a pay raise?
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)unless they know something we don't know? ???
Moral Compass
(1,521 posts)This looks like a reasonable deal unless I've really missed something major.
Mass
(27,315 posts)It is more important to say NO to the GOP than to help people who need it.
Frankly, most of the Democratic party has become that too, and this is why these issues are not emphasized. Who cares! They confuse these issues with the game "Let's make a deal".
It is a pretty bad deal (and has always been. Who in their right mind defines the middle class up to $250,000), but it will be a life saver for some.
Mass
(27,315 posts)which means that, contrarily to many here, he still cares about them more than about winning one against the GOP
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/31/tom-harkin-fiscal-cliff-talks_n_2388612.html
I actually agree with what Harkin said. I think taxes should have been raised for people with an AGI of at least $100,000. The whole deal is ridiculous. However, this is not a game. There are people who will suffer (or already do, as they do not know what will happen to them tomorrow, and I am not talking about the rich here, or even the middle class). And frankly these people are generally ignored on DU.
But dont worry because there will be no deal. The GOP does not want a deal at all and the Dems are done advocating those who need it anyway.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)And that means that Republicans will go right from this negotiation into the debt ceiling in the firm belief that Obama can be rolled.
At that point he can redeem himself by holding firm but because the Republicans dont think he will, they will play tough, almost surely forcing him to actually hit the ceiling with all the costs that entails. And look, if I were a Republican I would also be betting that hell cave.
So Obama has set himself and the nation up for a much uglier confrontation than we would have had if he had set a negotiating position and held to it.
RC
(25,592 posts)It should be fairly obvious to most people by now. But it's not.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)generalising about displeased DUers who dare question anything our great leader does or says...
AW man Paul is just a dirty hippy looking for free drugs so he can live in his utopian hippy world!
people on du amaze me :p
Deb
(3,742 posts)this deal will help me to focus on my own personal money pit
pasto76
(1,589 posts)so getting ANY tax increase, the GOP saying fuck you to Norquist and pushing off the sequester INSTEAD of demanding SS cuts.... I really dont see any room for a DEMOCRAT to complain at this point. the liberal part of the left is unhappy that single payer health insurance is not part of this deal or something....
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Current rate is 35% new rate will be 39.6. Those who make 33,300 per month or more will pay an additional 4.6% on the portion of income which is above 400K, not on the entire income, just on the top part, and it is not a raise from zero.
I guess if you really thought they were paying Zero and now it is 39.6 that would seem like a huge breakthrough, but that's not the case. Small increase on huge incomes.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)Taverner
(55,476 posts)They already decided how much they would go for, andthis is all to distract from the fact that our defense budget is killing us
Cleita
(75,480 posts)crumbling infrastructure and Americans on the streets, homeless and without the health care and nutrition they need. Also, we who have enough to eat, need to start questioning how safe the food we eat actually is.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)We have more vacant homes than homeless people.
And nobody is even looking at one of the problems as a solution to the other.
Look over there... The fiscal cliff.
When are our lawmakers going to stop all the drama and get to work?
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)The top marginal income taxes, capital gains, dividends and estate tax would all go back up to Clinton era. Far from getting back to pre-Reagan rates on rich but its a start. It would be easy to pass middle class tax cuts though in January.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)People cheer the President for not giving away things that should never have been an issue. They salute raising income taxes on people who receive little if any of their wealth from wages and salaries while leaving capital gains and inheritance taxes untouched. Failure to raise capital gains and inheritance taxes, combined with a failure to tax financial transactions and a failure to cut national security spending will give cover for the President to capitulate to future corporate demands for reductions in social programs as the deficit continues to increase and federal policy continues to transfer the nations wealth into the hands of the very wealthy.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)airplaneman
(1,239 posts)Skittles
(153,164 posts)world wide wally
(21,743 posts)We will get only half of the revenues we started with. Down from 1.6 trillion to 750 Billion.
Social Security does not even factor into the budget and should never have even been brought to the table.
And once again, all we get is the unemployment extended for another year (same thing he buckled on in the debt ceiling negotiations).
Sure looks to me like the Republicans win again. Just imagine what would have happened if the election was close... and I don't even WANT to see what happens when Obama caves on the next round of debt ceiling negotiations.
Wasn't it a treat when Obama at least pretended to have a backbone?
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)What does the article do? It seems to give full credit to the GOP for taking C-CPI off the table:
CPI has to be off the table because its not a winning argument to say benefits for seniors versus tax breaks for rich people, said Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). We need to take CPI off the table thats not part of the negotiations because we cant win an argument that has Social Security for seniors versus taxes for the rich.
So, many of us wonder exactly what was Obamas part in all of this? Why would he put the CPI measures inside his package. Is he friends with Grover Norquist? What gives? Why is it McCain who is mentioning the necessity of keeping Social Security strong. (And actually, Social Security has already been weakened. Lost in all this Fiscal Cliff nonsense is the fact that those of us born in the fifties have to wait till we are 67 to receive a benefit others got at 65. If you retire at 65, you end up losing a substantial portion of the monthly payments - for LIFE!)
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)[IMG][/IMG][/URL]
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)CPI off the table which is what the outrage was about in the first place. If that is no longer in there, and I'm sure you would be outraged over making Seniors pay the gambling debts of Wall St., then you can relax. Until they try again and we will again take action, as we did this time, to stop them once again.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)the closet right wingers are coming out in droves and exposing themselves with insults about drugs and utopias because oh our liberal ideas are just soooooo extreme.
thanks for making my list of frauds on DU a lil bit bigger!
(if you guys think they only put plants in crowds of people and not on internet forums, ur all crazy... both sides have plants on DU)
think_critically
(118 posts)Regardless of what happened today all this drama is really about is setting the parameters for tax reform next year. Obama had to get some rate increase in order to have leverage when it comes to tax reform. Tax reform will probably hit high income earners a little harder and will even hit middle class folks.
Response to boxman15 (Original post)
shireen This message was self-deleted by its author.
aaaaaa5a
(4,667 posts)I thought our far left flank was more sane than the GOP far right. And while I think that is definitely the case, it would be unfair to say we don't have our fair share of folks that don't understand what's going on.
This is a great deal! Obama won. And in my view he won big.
This is what I wrote last night in another thread:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Remember, this is the GOP working on this deal to increase taxes. Talk about hell freezing over!!!!!!
That alone is a huge victory for the President.
We need to step back and look at the forest instead of the trees. Look how far Obama has moved the GOP! This is actually amazing!
Remember, Clinton's tax increase passed the Senate without 1 GOP vote in 1993! Many believe this is what led to the huge GOP gains in 1994. Now Obama will put the Clinton taxes back in place with bi-partisan support. And he did it under much more partisan circumstances.
He is going to go down as an all time great President!
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
People need to step back and truly understand what a great job the white house did with these negotiations. To get an idea of how bad the GOP took it on the chin, just wait until Boehner tries to get this through the house. Its not going to be pretty. And I am going to enjoy watching the House GOP bow down to the power of the President!
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)From what little I have seen so far at any rate.
I am disappointed that the tax increase was not applied at 250K. Obama vowed that he would veto any extention of the tax cuts for those making over $250,000. True to form, he didn't follow through. At this point the GOP has to know that the surest sign Obama will cave immediately is if he vowes not to. I am disappointed that we will have to go through this nonsense again in a couple months.
I am disgusted that he proposed chained CPI. That is simply inexcusable. It's pretty freaking sad when Ronald Reagan is more "liberal" on social security than our own President, but there it is. Chained CPI didn't pass this time, but it will make a comeback.
The worst thing in my opinion is that Obama is still not advancing Democratic party solutions. He's still talking about the deficits and cutting entitlement spending. He's still playing "enlightened republican."
I will not say we would have been better off going over the cliff, but we very well might have been. We wont know until the actual details of this plan become known. We'll see what cuts Obama agreed to.