General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBreaking from CNBC : We're going over the cliff!
Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)
CNBC @CNBC
BREAKING: CNBC's @JohnJHarwood: No vote in the House tonight, sources say.
https://twitter.com/search?q=cnbc&src=typd
Update:John Harwood @JohnJHarwood
Senate Dem aide: votes "still possible" tonight, but Ds/Rs digging in on sequester. Ds will hear Biden sales job only if entire deal done
Undismayed
(76 posts)Cooley Hurd
(26,877 posts)But, one thing's for sure, the Repugs have LOST! BIG! One small, soothing feeling to an otherwise maddening situation.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)the reduced payroll tax will end, and go back up to 6.2%.
the tax is what feeds the Soc. Sec. fund.
By lowering the tax last year, it was a massively-destructive revenue cut that was intended to and did destabilize Social Security funding.
By law when the Social Security "trust fund" runs out of surplus,
all benefits must be ratably cut immediately to eliminate any shortfall.
The "cliff" date for this has been widely quoted as 2039.
This "tax cut" had accelerated this to as soon as 2019 or thereabouts, roughly 6 years from now.
The problem is that a huge percentage of the damage is already done, and ZIRP does even more as it lowers,
on a permanent basis, the coupon that is earned on long term Treasuries, which is what the "trust fund" holds and buys.
Even ceasing the Payroll Tax Cut now will not reverse the damage that has been inflicted, but it does stop it from accumulating.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)phony 'cliff' nonsense which is aside from anything else, totally undemocratic.
We have a Congress, it is THEIR job to represent the people. They have not been doing that. They have allowed a 'gang of eight' to make major decisions for all of Congress, that should never be made by such a small group of members.
NOW maybe the new Congress can address the unemployment issue separately from this disastrous game they have been playing.
And now maybe, they can focus on GROWTH rather than this, this failed, AUSTERITY they have been trying to push, which if it succeeded I can assure you would in no way have helped the poor and unemployed, See Europe for proof of that.
I am thrilled that the activism of the people is paying off and the exposure of this 'show' which is all it was in order to help the wealthy, has resulted in 'no deal'. This whole thing needs to be scrapped and Congress needs to get on with the work we election them to do. NOT EIGHT of them, ALL of them.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I realize they were looking for stimulus when they cut it, but I think it was the wrong place to get money from and now people expect those lower rates.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Notice that NO one in DC is talking at all about the banks that were given our money, to gamble with.
Or talking about the failure to charge fruadulent banks and hedge funds with RICO.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)unless a crappy deal is made next year.
Time to reframe the debate.
Create NEW tax cuts rather than trying to keep parts of the Bush tax cuts.
Hammer the Republicans for voting against tax cuts and keep showing the people who benefits from various tax cuts.
It COULD happen, although I doubt it will. Obama has sounded like he will come right back with 78% of the Bush tax cuts and call that a "middle class tax cut".
muriel_volestrangler
(101,320 posts)because that seems to be the one immediate effect. Maybe someone who knows the mechanics of payment can say how quickly the payments will stop, or how easy it would be to pass something on, say, Jan 2nd, before the cut happens in practice.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I'm not one of 'em but there's a part of me which likes saying "Deficit is the biggest fucking problem? Here's your solution."
It's not all bad. Now there's no longer a need for a "grand compromise". In January;
a) pass middle class tax relief
b) pass an unemployment extension
And we're good.
pscot
(21,024 posts)will be a challenge.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)They don't *have* to pass anything. If they like high taxes, it's their call.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)every time politicians talk about the middle class, most of the benefits seem to go to the UPPER middle class.
Raksha
(7,167 posts)Re "In January;
a) pass middle class tax relief
b) pass an unemployment extension
And we're good."
Right. No more "fiscal cliff." A slope, maybe, but that can be handled step by step. And I'd just love to see the Republicans in the new Congress stonewall over the debt ceiling this time. All it would do is hasten their demise, and I am not gonna cry about THAT!
Taverner
(55,476 posts)putitinD
(1,551 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)I suspected maybe people were celebrating too soon.
Panasonic
(2,921 posts)And it will continue the decline of the Republican Party, probably exponentially.
Happy New Year, Blue_in_AK!
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)with the same coalition they had in the surrender of 2010.
That vote was
Democrats - 139-112
Republicans - 138-36
total - 277-148
If Obama had endorsed a deal, a number of Democrats would have gone along with it, and then only a few Republican votes are needed. Considering how good the deal was for the rich, I would expect to pick up a number of Republican votes.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)Fuck em to hell.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)That's what this says to me.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)The next Congress will retroactively extend the tax cuts for those making $250K and under and will cancel the budget cuts.
randome
(34,845 posts)But that won't help those who are depending on unemployment benefits or food stamps.
And it might fuck up the country's credit rating again.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)The credit rating fuck up will be associated with the debt ceiling, not the "cliff".
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)So I'm game to see who wilts first.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Democrats would find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)ananda
(28,864 posts).. scream bloody murder!
Whooppeee!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)but I can't see this dysfunctional House passing anything. Fuck them.
Let the GOP's bones shatter on the rocks!
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)AnnaLee
(1,040 posts)It will be 3 hours earlier here. If I go to sleep early will I feel myself fall? Will it be like a falling dream where you never really hit bottom and when you wake startled. do you discover it was just a dream?