Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Say we won and stop fucking with the Strait and we're all set."
By Josh Marshall, TPM The U.S. is approaching a newly dangerous phase of its war against Iran. The administration is signaling that it will likely soon commence ground operations in Iran that will yet stop short of a full-scale invasion
talking variously about degrading Iranian missile, drone and nuclear capacities. But if you look closely at words and especially actions the real aim appears to be to force Iran to let the U.S. out of the war with something it can call a win. Say we won and stop fucking with the Strait and were all set, the administration is basically saying. The problem is that if this scenario is basically accurate the U.S. is escalating with nothing it can call a win that isnt 100% at the discretion of Iran, which now seems even more under the control of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps than before the war, to offer. So what if the U.S. does a limited ground operation and Iran says, Nope, were still not giving you your win. What then? Full-scale invasion? As Ive written, military planners and heads of state who are smart really want goals they can at least realistically try to achieve entirely on their own terms. So we want this piece of territory. Or we want to break this specific thing. In that case, you dont need the other side to agree to anything. You can achieve your goals by force.
Eventually, youll want to make peace. But you can leave that to the other guys to worry about. You have what you want. But if your goal is entirely at the other guys discretion, youve got a big problem. And that really seems like what the U.S. is getting into now. Of course, you need to have thought all of this through in advance. And this is very much the result of getting into this conflict with no clear idea of what we were trying to accomplish. Or perhaps we went into this with the really foolish or extremely high-risk assumption that the enemy state would shatter quickly. That clearly hasnt happened and now seems highly unlikely, especially since the U.S. has made it clear it wants out.
You evaluate a war not by how much each side blows up but by who emerges stronger, either in relative or absolute terms, when the war ends. Who achieved what? If Iran emerges from this conflict with some kind of effective control of the Strait of Hormuz, that will be a tremendous strategic victory. In fact, even surviving the full force of U.S. aerial bombardment for a month is a big deterrent accomplishment. Right now Iran holds the initiative in the whole conflict. And the president is escalating but without any goal or off-ramp that isnt under Irans control to give or deny. Sometimes you simply have to admit you got it wrong and try to redefine goals that are workable. But the president appears to be on the brink of a severe escalation, banking on the hope that blowing up more things will take the initiative back from Iran when that seems highly unlikely.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/lacking-any-strategy-trump-prepares-to-escalate
Eventually, youll want to make peace. But you can leave that to the other guys to worry about. You have what you want. But if your goal is entirely at the other guys discretion, youve got a big problem. And that really seems like what the U.S. is getting into now. Of course, you need to have thought all of this through in advance. And this is very much the result of getting into this conflict with no clear idea of what we were trying to accomplish. Or perhaps we went into this with the really foolish or extremely high-risk assumption that the enemy state would shatter quickly. That clearly hasnt happened and now seems highly unlikely, especially since the U.S. has made it clear it wants out.
You evaluate a war not by how much each side blows up but by who emerges stronger, either in relative or absolute terms, when the war ends. Who achieved what? If Iran emerges from this conflict with some kind of effective control of the Strait of Hormuz, that will be a tremendous strategic victory. In fact, even surviving the full force of U.S. aerial bombardment for a month is a big deterrent accomplishment. Right now Iran holds the initiative in the whole conflict. And the president is escalating but without any goal or off-ramp that isnt under Irans control to give or deny. Sometimes you simply have to admit you got it wrong and try to redefine goals that are workable. But the president appears to be on the brink of a severe escalation, banking on the hope that blowing up more things will take the initiative back from Iran when that seems highly unlikely.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/lacking-any-strategy-trump-prepares-to-escalate
1 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Say we won and stop fucking with the Strait and we're all set." (Original Post)
BeyondGeography
9 hrs ago
OP
NoMoreRepugs
(12,069 posts)1. How does anyone evaluate what a madman like trumpy might do rather
than admit he made a grave error in judgement??