Why the 25th Amendment will probably not be invoked for Trump

[surfered]

In a must read post by Amaryllis, Miles Taylor says there were serious discussions by Trump’s cabinet in 2018 to invoke the 25th Amendment. He also explains the problems with that process.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221151682

Here’s the money quote:

“Let me explain. The Twenty-Fifth Amendment, as codified in 1967, allows the vice president and a majority of the heads of the fifteen executive departments to declare the president unfit and strip him of his powers, but Congress can reverse the determination within twenty-one days. Back then, a reversal was likely. It’s even more likely today. The GOP House and Senate would never cross this president so brazenly, regardless of the imminent mortal danger he might pose to the republic or how mentally impaired he might be.”

Republicans aren’t going to save us.

[ck4829]

1. 3 word explanation: Republicans are cowards

[GoCubsGo]

9. You spelled "complicit" wrong.

[Takket]

2. The 25th was meant for situations where the president was "out of action"

Like “he just had a heart attack and is in surgery”

It is not a realistic tool for “the president is a crazy motherfucker”, nor was it really meant to be. That’s what impeachment is for.

The 25th amendment is a fantasy that people really need to let go.

[Shrek]

6. +1

All Trump has to do is write a note saying "Don't listen to these LOSERS I am AWESOME at discharging my Duties thank you for your Attention to this Matter!!!!!" and it's all over.

[spooky3]

11. What is your evidence of this?

The language of the amendment does not specify physical vs mental capacity or contain a time limit as you are describing.

And, an explanation of the amendment includes this: “Section 4 might be invoked when the President is unable or unwilling to declare that he is incapacitated.” To me, “unwilling” implies a psychological basis for taking action.

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt25-1/ALDE_00013871/#:~:text=Vacancy%20and%20Disability-,Twenty%2DFifth%20Amendment,Vice%20President%20shall%20become%20President.

I agree that it’s unlikely to be used, but that’s because his cabinet is too feckless to do it.

[Takket]

23. because look at how the 25th is removed after it is invoked

even if his feckless cabinet actually invoked it, all drumpf has to do is send congress a letter that he's fine and the 25th's power to make Vance president is removed. keeping it in place requires 2/3rds of both houses which is an actual higher threshold than impeachment and removal.

if this was meant to be a tool to remove an unfit president than drumpf's wouldn't basically have veto power over his cabinet and VP.

[spooky3]

24. But that's simply your view, not the language of the amendment.

The point is that there is a mechanism to remove a mentally unfit Pres. and there is no distinction made for physical or mental issues or any based on duration, which you first argued.

It was (like other aspects of Constitutional change) designed to be hard to implement, presumably so that the removal process can’t be abused on political grounds. And, as with the amendment process, the Founders didn’t count on the government’s being controlled by awful partisans and big money.

The problem is the cowardice/greed of the people whose job it is to implement it.

[Turbineguy]

3. On the other hand,

the 25th is a great way for trump to escape from the mess he's in. If he's not fit to be president, he can claim to be unfit to stand trial. Let alone be punished.

[RainCaster]

4. We will have to wait for the midterms

Once again, it will be up to the Democrats to save our country. We need to remind them about that for the next 50 years.

[yellow dahlia]

5. I keep asking the question. Why don't we have a method to stop the madness?

[Greg_In_SF]

12. We do.

Elections.

[mikewv]

7. Highly unlikely

A two-thirds majority vote in both the House and the Senate is required to keep the VP as Acting President; otherwise, the President remains in office. Which means 75 house republicans would have to join all the democrats in voting and in the senate 20 republicans would have to join all of the democrats.

[tinrobot]

18. Impeachment is actually easier from a numbers standpoint

25th is half the cabinet and 2/3 of both houses to keep him out.

Impeachment is only half the House and 2/3 of the Senate.

[mikewv]

19. Yes and it should have happened

in his first two impeachments trials. In Feb 2021, 7 repubs joined all of the democrat caucus. 57-43. If MCturtle would have voted to convict, I think more repubs would have come along but who knows. By the way Mitch, how did the courts do? You rationalized your vote to not convict that it should be up to the courts.

[ITAL]

25. The word at the time was

McConnell did a straw poll of sorts and was going to vote to convict if enough of his party had shown a willingness to. But since not enough seemed to lean that way, he wasn't going out on a limb to given it might spur a leadership challenge after the trial failed.

[Johnny2X2X]

8. Coup de tete

So it could happen, but not because he's too crazy, but because he jeopardizes Project 2025's mission. In other words, Vance would make a move on him, but only if he saw him as a threat to Project 2025, not because he's a threat to our Democracy and world peace.

[Ocelot II]

10. Even if this particular president weren't dangerously insane

Last edited Mon Apr 6, 2026, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

to the point where the WH officials during his first reign of terror were afraid that he'd have them killed if they tried to do #25 on him, the whole mechanism is cumbersome and was clearly designed for a situation where a president was (probably temporarily) incapacitated and someone had to take over for a period of time until he either recovered or didn't. Another reason why it won't work this time is that even if the cabinet members weren't afraid of mortal consequences, they wouldn't vote to remove Trump because they know Vance would promptly sack them in order to install his own toadies.

[unblock]

14. Vance has toadies? Who knew. I thought everyone hated him.

Maybe he'll make Ted Cruz his veep. Finally, a ticket to unite the nation, two politicians no one likes....

[Ocelot II]

15. There are plenty of ambitious people around who would be eager to be a toady's toady.

Vance himself has always been a toady, but an ambitious one. He'll get lots of applicants to fluff the pillows on his couch and stand by with the spot remover.

[unblock]

17. Interestingly, the skills set needed to be a good (well, let's say 'effective') dictator

is actively spurned by a dictator currently in power. Anyone capable of being an effective dictator would be a threat, so dictators surround themselves with people who are not merely toadies, but who are unambituous and/or inept enough to not be a threat.

I see Vance as ambitious in his aspirations, but I don't see him as willing or able to do the things needed. He's just doing the obvious thing, reading the obits every day.

[unblock]

13. Removal by impeachment is much easier, and even that ain't happening.

Removal by impeachment required simple majority in the house and 2/3rds of the senate.

Removal by 25th amendment requires vpotus, half the cabinet, and 2/3rds of *both* houses.

It's really only meant for a president in a long-term coma or a stroke severe enough that they he can't communicate.

But a long as his cabinet can say "I think he said 'drakarys'," they'll burn it all down rather than remove him..

[Sneederbunk]

16. The majority of department heads are as crazy as he is.

[BlueTsunami2018]

20. Who ever thought this was a possibility?

There was never a chance this would happen. Explaining the intricacies of the 25th is pointless. He’s not leaving any time soon, if ever, unless he drops dead.

Even seeing what’s going on, I really don’t think people truly understand the situation we’re in. These people are fascists. That’s not hyperbole, that’s not doom and gloom, that’s the truth. They’re fascists. And fascists do not give up power. You have to force them out.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

21. Cowards and Complicit since 2016

I give the republicans take them please, take them all away

[Intractable]

22. He's been firing his cabinet members. Rumors are he wants to fire more.

His cabinet is terrified of him. They will not move against him.

They see what happened to Noem and Bondi. You don't just get fired, you get humiliated by the entire MAGA movement.

[bob4460]

26. The Republican party is complicit

With the raping and pillaging of the nation. Look at all the money that's been added to the deficit that has been added in just over a year.

[Initech]

27. So what do we do? He's becoming increasingly unhinged and drunk with power.

We can't just ride this out because it looks like they are going to do some incredibly evil shit.