Are you 'angry' over the end of the payroll tax holiday?

[renie408]

It looks like the DU is writing Joe Curl's blog for him. Thank god somebody intelligent is doing it for once. But good ole Joe says that the concern exhibited by some DUers equates to 'anger' over the payroll tax holiday expiring. He also says that we are 'uninformed'. If this is old news, I apologize. But as it was just brought to my attention tonight (gleefully, I presume) by one of my extreme conservative friends on Facebook, it was news to me.

I told him I would check with you guys and see who is ANGRY over the expiration of the payroll tax holiday and who blames Obama.

So, who's pissed over this thing??

Sorry, I meant to include the link to the blog post:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/6/obama-supporters-shocked-angry-new-tax-increases/

[Incitatus]

1. no nt

[lunasun]

2. angry when it started

excuse to weaken ss
glad it is ended

[slackmaster]

3. No. A little sad that I will have to put off some discretionary purchases for another year.

No Losmandy equatorial telescope mount this year, unless I get a windfall from somewhere.

[ellenfl]

4. not me. had to expire or ss would surely die. eom

[wilsonbooks]

5. Not me.

I am glad that the payroll tax is going back into the social security fund so that conservatives can't say that SS is insolvent. Now we need to close tax loopholes on the wealthy and wefare for corporations. I am angry about that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. It was an insanely stupid idea in the first place.

"Hey everyone! Let's ALL OF US stop paying into our SS Acounts for a few years! It'll be FUN!"

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

24. ^^^THIS^^^

The phrase "eating our seed corn" comes to mind.

[Lars39]

39. Yes! That's how I had been describing it to people.

Also described Sales Tax Holidays that way, too.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

41. Gas Tax Holidays are the same story...

Good luck paying for next year's road construction if you eliminate taxes on gasoline.

How old do some people have to be before they realize that there's no such thing as a free lunch?

[Lars39]

44. Sometimes it's desperation, not naivete.

Sign of bad times.

[NMDemDist2]

7. heavens no.

we are lucky enough that the $30-35 a week means nothing, and I'll need SS in 10 years.

[Big Blue Marble]

8. I am glad that we are back to fully funding Social Security.

This was not a tax increase. It restores the legal tax that congress had established to fund SS.
You know the rate we have been paying since the eighties with exception of the last two years
when we were increasing the federal debt by borrowing these funds from ourselves by using
general funds.

[yardwork]

9. Backstory: Some concern trolls were sent to DU by Rush Limbaugh to whine about it.

The trolls disrupted poorly and were shown the door, but not before Rush got to crow about "Democrat Underground" on his show. One of the concern trolls' posts here was retweeted more than 300 times.

[Tarheel_Dem]

60. Sadly, the post that started it all, although locked, was retweeted over 500 times.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022125273#top

[TDale313]

10. not me.

The payroll holiday was a bad idea to begin with, although I get that there weren't a lot of stimulus options at the time. SS needs to be funded/protected.

[Squinch]

11. Uh, no. And the paycheck wasn't a surprise either.

[cordelia]

12. Nope. Not a very good idea to begin with.

[bullwinkle428]

13. No, but I wasn't crazy about its implementation in the first place, and took the beating

from other DUers for saying so at the time!

[Fumesucker]

14. No but the fact that some people (not on DU) would be angry is as predictable as gravity

Also that some people would troll DU pretending to be angry is pretty easy to predict as well.

Bear in mind all this was predictable as soon as the tax cut idea was so much as floated.

[renie408]

15. Yeah, me either.

But this guy says his wife is pissed that she is going to have to pay more in taxes.


But she would have been fine if they had cut Social Security benefits and gave less help to the poor and discontinued unemployment benefits. Yeah, them's good people.

[Poll_Blind]

16. No, not even remotely. I'm thankful that it has been reinstated. nt

PB

[Lone_Star_Dem]

17. I'm not, I'm relieved it's over.

That was a few "concern" trolls who stated that whole thing.

It's good for DU's hits and posting totals though. In the end they've done nothing but help add to the funds needed to keep DU running.

[WilliamPitt]

18. No.

I understand the definition of the word "temporary."

[madrchsod]

19. nope...i`m on ss and i`m pissed about that.

[NV Whino]

20. No

Never should have been implemented in the first place.

[JaneyVee]

21. Im not.

[Tien1985]

22. Nope.

It should never have gone on "holiday" in the first place.

[LiberalElite]

23. Nope.

[panader0]

25. I like to have a job so I could have something to be angry about.

[bowens43]

26. No. Absolutely not.

[Still Sensible]

27. No, not at all n/t

[TheKentuckian]

28. No relieved. I had no doubt some weren't going to be happy about it.

[NashvilleLefty]

29. no.

[forestpath]

30. No, I was angry it existed in the first place.

[QED]

31. We got numbers today from HR

If I'm reading it right, my paychecks will be about $30 lighter.

[notadmblnd]

50. The number is .02%

multiply that by your gross pay and that is how much more it will be. For example, $30.00 is 2% of 1500.00

[JEFF9K]

32. they

They should have given us a tax holiday that would have helped everyone, a sales tax holiday.

[abelenkpe]

33. No

Just think they need to explain it better

[RomneyLies]

34. I'm happy to pay nearly $200 more per month

even though the bastard misquoted me and had ot go to another thread from the one he's citing in order to do it.

[Buzz Clik]

35. no

[alberg]

36. No. It was an ill conceived move, glad it's over. Let's go for a direct stimulus next time

and not try to back door something that weakens Social Security.

[Hekate]

37. No. BUSH left this stink bomb for the next president to deal with.

I was pissed off at Bush for 1) sending everybody $300 out of the surplus, thereby reducing it considerably, and 2) giving the uber-rich a big tax cut, the rest of us a small tax cut, and the payroll tax "holiday" that did nothing but deplete the Treasury further.

Bush sweetly left this stink bomb for the next president to deal with: it had a sunset date of a decade away. Given the short attention span of the American people and given that apparently a lot of them can't add and subtract without taking off their shoes, Bush knew that the next president, no matter who he was, would be vociferously blamed for a tax increase.

I gave my $300 to a couple of liberal causes locally, but it left a very bitter taste in my mouth.

We seem lately to have a lot of vewy vewy concerned newbies who are oh-so-distressed that a few bucks more are being taken out of their checks, AND IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT HE LIED HE'S EVIL.

What a convenient coinkydink that Rush and his ilk can then read such drivel on-air to demonstrate that Democrats at DU are upset at Obama because he lied he's evil blah blah blah.

Anyone who likes can quote this little opinionated history lesson.

[hay rick]

38. No, I'm relieved.

I expressed my disgust with the idea when it was implemented several times, including here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4650955&mesg_id=4651196

"...accepting this poisonous deal... will cripple future federal budgets by expanding the deficit and will also pave the way for gutting Social Security by allowing the Republicans and a compliant media to paint the normal employee contributions needed to sustain the program as "tax hikes" only one short year from now...The 'stimulus' the payroll tax holiday provides may help delay further immediate decline in the economy, but it is not of sufficient magnitude to turn the economy around. The difference between the proposed 2% holiday and the Making Work Pay rebates that it replaces is only on the order of $60 billion. A measure of it's futility is the fact that the Republicans are willing to sign on to it..."

One year turned into two, but the rest held up pretty well.

[LisaLynne]

40. No, it was a stupid, stupid, stupid idea to begin with.

Now it's time to get back to the business of being adults.

[PATXgirl]

45. ^^^^^EXACTLY THIS^^^^^

[democrattotheend]

42. Kind of. I have mixed feelings

I think extending the payroll tax holiday would have done more to help workers than cutting income taxes, and it is really outrageous that Congress could find the money to cut the estate tax for multi-millionaires but couldn't find the money to give working people a break. My boyfriend has had a lot of unexpected expenses lately and having his paycheck shrink at the same time really stings.

On the other I understand the argument about Social Security, although my understanding is that they set it up so that the money would not actually come out of the SS trust fund.

[renie408]

43. I know you do.

Since you are one of the members Curl quotes in his blog post.

And oddly enough, that 'My boyfriend has had a lot of unexpected expenses lately and having his paycheck shrink at the same time really stings.' line is almost a direct quote from the article.


In fact, here it is....“My boyfriend has had a lot of expenses and is feeling squeezed right now, and having his paycheck shrink really didn’t help,” wrote “DemocratToTheEnd.”

Huh.

[democrattotheend]

49. LOL, didn't realize I was quoted in someone's article

But you can see from my post count that I am hardly a troll. I have been a DU member for 10 years.

[renie408]

54. I know.

I checked.

The repeated wording is interesting, even if not from a troll-ish standpoint. I have probably done it, too, when I think about it. Just recently something happened and I developed a sound bite version of events after a very few retellings and caught myself telling it like it was a story that had happened to somebody else. It is interesting how much of our thinking really is like a narrative that we have written instead of being something we spontaneously experience.

[democrattotheend]

56. Argh, I never intended for my comment to be used by the Washington Times to bash the president

I posted this in response:

I am one of the Democratic Underground posters quoted in this article, the one who said something about my boyfriend's paycheck shrinking right when he has had some other big expenses. So I want to clarify that I am not "shocked and angry". I supported the payroll tax holiday and wish they had extended it, but I understand that there is give and take in these negotiations and Republicans were unwilling to support extending the payroll tax holiday. To be clear, I continue to support the president and so does my boyfriend.

[Blue_In_AK]

46. I'm only angry that they did the holiday in the first place

which allowed people to feel like something is being taken away from them now. Any outrage could have been avoided.

[notadmblnd]

47. It goes like this.

rush Limpballs sent some of his trolls over here to pose as democrats and complain about the Fica tax holiday expiring. Then he talked about it on his radio show and Drudge wrote in his sleaze blog about a bunch of angry liberals on DU griping about it.


After that they went to S America drank some alcohol, did some oxycontin, engaged in pedophile activity and laughed about how clever it all was to make it look like dems were angry.

[Agnosticsherbet]

48. No, I am actually quite happy that it expired...

There are better ways to stimulate the economy, an this one is no longer necessary

[democrattotheend]

51. Yikes, they quoted me!!!

I never intended for what I said here to be used in a Washington Times article bashing the president!

I posted this comment in response:

I am one of the Democratic Underground posters quoted in this article, the one who said something about my boyfriend's paycheck shrinking right when he has had some other big expenses. So I want to clarify that I am not "shocked and angry". I supported the payroll tax holiday and wish they had extended it, but I understand that there is give and take in these negotiations and Republicans were unwilling to support extending the payroll tax holiday. To be clear, I continue to support the president and so does my boyfriend.

[jonthebru]

52. It was a bad idea when it happened

Senator Sanders of Vermont was against it, so was I.

[southernyankeebelle]

53. I wasn't mad because it was suppose to be temporary in the first place.

[jberryhill]

55. No

[WillyT]

57. Nope...

[bluestateguy]

58. No

It's time to forget about it.

[MrSlayer]

59. They should have raised the cap.

Or eliminated it. They could have kept the break that way.

But, no, I'm not mad about it.

I'm mad that there's still no fucking jobs bill. That these friggin scumbag Republicans just won't do anything. That's what I'm mad about.

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. No. Because I'm an adult, and know that no "holiday" lasts for two years. We were....

lucky it lasted that long.

[abbeyco]

62. Not one bit.

The cap should be raised so that all income is included and means-testing should be applied when it's time to claim benefits. I think the payroll tax holiday hurt SS more than it helped anything.

Just my .02

[darkangel218]

63. I havent got my paycheck yet. i will on the 15 and ill report.

But SS couldnt survive on so lil money. But I would lie if I said I didn't care. I'm a full time student working part time so every bit counts :/

[doc03]

64. I was angry when they started the payroll tax cut, it

blew up our deficit by about $230 billion. It also gave the Republicans the opportunity to connect the debt to SS. I was happy it ended.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

65. I'm not angry

I thought it was a bad idea to begin with.

[peace13]

66. Thank god it ended!

As a small business owner it was a pain in the butt. In fact I thought they dreamt this thing up to fine businesses who miscalculated tax payments. Times two is so easy and anyway we were only cheating ourselves!

Let's raise the salary cap on this thing and get on with it!

[CTyankee]

67. it was meant as a temporary stimulative measure to help folks during the worst part of the

recession, not as a permanent thing. That will never occur to the readers of Rev. Moon's newspaper obviously.

However, DUers discomfort with seeing the tax holiday end proves that we need to make other stimulative measures to help folks recover. It can't be solved with one small tax holiday. There needs to be more systemic changes.

[Silver Gaia]

68. No. n/t

[Demo_Chris]

69. Yes.

America's largest employer is Walmart, followed (if I recall) by McDonalds at number two. Rounding out most of the rest of the top ten are other service and retail providers, such as Home Depot. All of these jobs pay as close to the legal minimum as they possibly can. No benefits of course, they don't even offer full time positions. The national average pay for Walmart checker is 17K a year.

This is the reality for tens of millions of working poor. Wage slavery, no benefits, no healthcare, no jobs, no future, no hope... and no net. For these poor people, the money now once again coming out of their check is a big deal. We are taking this money from the poor, not to ensure that the program will be around for them when they grow old -- we all know that that's complete bullshit -- but to hand it to the baby boomers.

[RandiFan1290]

71. 1 so far

[davidpdx]

70. It doesn't affect me because I'm not employed in the US

But it was meant to be a temporary cut, much like all the Bush tax cuts. It was nice to get the lower end brackets made permanent.

[Arcanetrance]

72. I'm angry at the way it was handled

The common layperson that doesn't follow politics saw it as a tax increase cause they didn't know it was a holiday.

[Red Sox]

74. I don't get it

We liberals voted for more taxes when we reelected President Obama. Now, many of us are complaining about smaller pay checks. Anyone spending just a few minutes reviewing the fiscal cliff activity in Congress would know that the payroll tax holiday would disappear. If you think this is bad, Nancy Pelosi wants to raise taxes more. We can't have more government entitlements without paying for them. My suggestion would be to pull up Cory Booker's site and learn about his food stamp challenge.

[CJCRANE]

75. I'd say at least 90% of the posts in this thread aren't complaining

about the end of the payroll tax holiday.

However, we also all need to bear in mind that...

a) not everyone who posts on a liberal message board is a liberal
b) liberals do not always agree about everything, or anything ("herding cats" comes to mind)

[Agschmid]

81. What's wrong with herding cats?

I know nothing about the company this is an ad for... that being said the ad is funny.

[patrice]

76. I believe in paying my way. nt

[Filibuster Harry]

77. NO. It was only a temporary stimulus move. They (the president and congress) could have replaced

it with the Making Work Pay credit which would help low income earners.

[NCTraveler]

78. I don't know about angry. Frustrated? Yes.

We all saw our paychecks go down at a difficult time. I would have like to have seen the "holiday" made permanent, or extended, and the cap raised. It is truly a regressive tax.

[SammyWinstonJack]

79. Stupid idea to begin with.....

[old guy]

80. No

All bad ideas should be ended.

[Ganja Ninja]

82. No.

[hfojvt]

83. it looks to me like DU is a bit of a weather vane

"we" point whichever way Obama's wind blows.

When Obama was pushing to extend the accursed payroll tax cut, it seemed like DU was all for it, and I was battling against it alone.

Now that Obama has refused to fight to extend it, scarcely a voice can be heard to praise it.

But now I feel sorta funny about it. I always hated it because it was regressive. Most of the benefits went to the top 20%. However, it was LESS regressive than the other Bush tax cuts that we kept. And because it was eliminated, that means that once again, Obama's betrayal means a tax increase for the average member of the bottom 20%.

Go figure.

[Flashmann]

84. Nope

Not me...But then I'm retired and have seen no difference in my pension check.....My wife,8 years younger,still works.......She isn't angey either.....

[Yupy]

85. Yes:timing is everything and with such weak economy is BAD regardless...

[CokeMachine]

86. Nope nt

[SheilaT]

87. Well, I didn't notice any increase in my take-home

a couple of years ago, and I doubt I'll notice any decrease. For me, it'll be about six dollars a paycheck, which tells you how little I'm making these days. I also am paid hourly, and my exact hours vary from paycheck to paycheck, which is partly why I don't notice any difference.

I thought it was a very stupid thing to do back then, and I'm glad the tax holiday was ended. It would simply have been the first, easy step in the direction of eliminating Social Security entirely.

[lunatica]

88. Nope. Not angry

I prefer it to go to my SS

[Jennicut]

89. Nope. It was always meant to be temporary.

Someone needs to lend that guy a dictionary.

[Oilwellian]

90. No

I'm glad to see SS will be strengthened, not weakened.