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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHas Purchased Payroll software hit your workplace?
SYRACUSE, N.Y. -- A new $365 million computer system that was intended to simplify National Grids operations has created chaos instead, screwing up paychecks for thousands of utility employees and delaying payments to vendors.
Two unions have filed lawsuits on behalf of unpaid workers, and on Monday the Massachusetts attorney general fined the company $270,000 for failing to comply with wage laws. New Yorks attorney general has subpoenaed company records to investigate.
....
For more than a year, National Grid worked to develop a new computer system to consolidate a patchwork of human resource, supply chain and finance programs it inherited from the handful of U.S. utilities it has acquired. The new system, based on software from SAP AG, of Germany, cost an estimated $365 million, according to National Grid rate filings.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/national_grid_syracuse_payroll.html
My health insurance has been screwed up ever since my employer went live with SAP!
Editted - sounds like it's the fault of the companies buying SAP, not SAP itself!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... those who were unable to successfully implement SAP, and alternative systems. Look at who did the implementation and at the business where it was implemented and you'll likely find the problem.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)doubly screwed.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)That said, I'm not conversant with SAP's standard contract.
Any client that signs a contract without negotiating a "no hire" clause was poorly represented in the negotiation.
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)benld74
(9,904 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)You are TOO funny! Testing and implementation plans? Back-up contingencies? Running systems in parallel?
Pshaw!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... scope creep is for sissies.
"You didn't say it WOULDN'T do that!"
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Since it may be dozens of applications, built and bought, modified over decades on the basis of sometimes whimsical feature requests from various types of managers.
So of course there will be objections that the new system "doesn't do this", despite no one quite knowing why the old system "did this".
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... many did not even have an inventory of their applications, equipment, vendors, etc. A few key employees held all such information in their heads. Planning had only been considered in the heat of the moment when everything was going to hell.
I loved turning those babies around.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Applications like buildings, networking like roads and bridges, data center ops like utility companies, LOB managers like the city council, operating managers like building owners, users like tenants, software vendors like real estate developers, consulting firms like construction companies, corporate finance like state and city budget committees, CIO like the mayor, etc.
Try satisfying all those folks!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Worked with a couple of customers who believed in them as SOP!
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... and "out of scope" always includes "anything else not specifically listed as in scope".
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Gathering requirements (and understanding what the client does/does not need to know) is probably one of the most important parts of the whole process (as far as I am concerned). Some of the stuff they think is "standard" (especially when it is the only system they are familiar with) boggles the brain.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)For over 25 years - eeep! I am a developer by preference (start to finish, front and back is my preference, although my ability to unravel other people's messes has been both fun and profitable).
Code changes, but the concepts don't. I have been blessed with the ability to translate customer requirements into IT speak, while simultaneously holding database relationships in my head. I am very good at what I do.
It is always fun to find someone else who gets it. Hello!
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)SAP is a good idea almost always badly implemented. The company, SAP AG, is a terrific example of everything that's wrong with the adopted model of software companies today and since it was adopted in the mid-90s.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)By throwing a complete conniption fit demanding a new (SAP) system be run in parrallel for at least one month, while begging for two.
I wasn't in charge of that implementation; they ended up six months late, and "lost" data.
When I did the HR portion, not only did we come in on-time and on-budget, we "caught" major issues (like out-of-date modules) *before* they completely screwed up our systems. The letter of recommendation my management team wrote was Very Pretty.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)under the brand name EPIC.
This has the potential to become a truly EPIC FAIL.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... in over 1,000 hospitals and is considered the current market leader. Any facility that cannot successfully install EPIC has other problems.
Let me know if you want to know more. I have 36 years experience in healthcare IT.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)was there a suit handing out business cards from SAP?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)PeopleSoft rep there also. They are competitors of SAP. Each has been interfaced to EPIC (and other health information systems) countless times.
If EPIC and SAP have any shared ownership it's news to me. A search for "SAP" on the Epic site got zero hits.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)It is NOT a "plug and play" system. If you don't have a COMPETENT IT support team, as well as people who understand that implementing a new ERP system is one of the biggest challenges a company can go through, you will be Screwed.
I am available to clean up the mess. I charge very reasonable rates.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)"Stella, the company spokesman, said National Grid has assigned hundreds of employees, including outside contractors, to deal with problems spawned by the new system. Many of them are packed into the companys Syracuse offices at 300 Erie Blvd. W. Others are dispersed to work at payroll clinics, helping employees in crew barns or other remote locations."
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/national_grid_syracuse_payroll.html
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)*always* help make the implementation of a new system absolutely seamless!
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Bigger than IBM, Microsoft, or Oracle, etc.
SAP software sales top forecast as wins market share
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/24/us-sap-results-idUSBRE89N0CA20121024
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)ad agency.
ieoeja
(9,748 posts)Customer have a problem? Don't call SAP. Call an SAP approved consultant. SAP will not talk directly to customers about any issues.
SAP must be given 24x7 access to the customers system and database.
SAP may alter database tables at any given moment. Of course, their software will be altered to match. If, however, the customer was so foolish as to write, say, a data extract that stops working because SAP changed the layout with no prior announcement ... they do sell it as a "black box" installation. You aren't even supposed to know the SAP data layout in the first place. So it is no concern of theirs if you violated the "no look" clause.
Essentially, you surrender all control of your systems with an SAP installation. In-house IT is still held accountable for it, of course. They just have no control.
Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would buy software with the above requirements.
Also, SAP ABAB development is the highest cost IT skill in the industry. And they make COBOL** programmers look cutting edge. Let's say you have:
Table1: (ColA, ColB, ColC)
1, George, M
2, Lisa, F
3, Sam, M
Table2: (ColA, ColD)
1, 212-555-1212
1, 212-555-9874
2, 212-555-4555
3, 212-555-1465
3, 212-555-1894
You want to create Table3: (ColA, ColB, ColD)
1, George, 212-555-1212
1, George, 212-555-9874
2, Lisa, 212-555-4555
3, Sam, 212-555-1465
3, Sam, 212-555-1894
Method 1:
FROM Table1 and Table2 WHERE Table1.ColA = Table2.ColA
ABAB programmer (and this is how SAP demands you program it):
Copy Table1 to Temp1
Copy Table2 to Temp2
While not EOF Temp1
While Temp1.ColA = Temp2.ColB
Write Temp3 table from rows
Get next Temp2
End While
Get next Temp1
End While
Load Table3 from Temp3
This is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW compared to the 1st method. I've seen programs take two hours to run using the 2nd method that now take 5 to 10 minutes to run after I rewrote it via the 1st method.
But if you use the 1st method, you have violated the terms of service with SAP.
**Imagine all PC applications today still being written to DOS compatibility. Every fellow mainframe COBOL programmer I met in my career did just that. They were handed a set of programming standards as they came in the door. But those standards were written when mainframes were running DOS. DOS bit the dust decades earlier, but the standards never died. So you have this huge mainframe with memory to spare continually swapping code and data while 99.999999% of the memory never gets used because all of the applications had hooks in them telling the OS to do so.
1st time I was asked to modify a program at my 2nd job, the end user called back saying it did not work. After failing to find any errors in the output, I asked them to show me where the problem was. They said they never even looked. The program always took hours to run, so when it quit after a couple minutes they assumed something was wrong. And the only thing I did (other than the requested change) was delete every COBOL "SECTION" command in the application. That's all it took.
Okay, that can be difficult if the program used fall-through programming. Fortunately, my predecessors never made that programming mistake.
COBOL didn't die a natural death. It was murdered by COBOL programmers.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)With no clue that the customization was going to be "extra"?
Just a theory.... Snerk!
SharonAnn
(13,776 posts)"They were handed a set of programming standards as they came in the door. But those standards were written when mainframes were running DOS. "
When did mainframes run DOS? 45 years in the IT business and I guess I missed that one!
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS/360_and_successors
Most every mainframe had a DOS, which replaced loading executables from mag tape, which replaced loading executables from punched cards. They were as primitive as just a batch-oriented job control language interpreter, a relocating loader for the executables, and some handling of I/O files, print streams and console output.
Minicomputers and personal computer systems each sort of recapitulated the evolution of operating systems as hardware capabilities evolved from mainframe ECL to TTL to CMOS.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)to the computer room, then hauling output back upstairs!
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)Response to SharonAnn (Reply #33)
ieoeja This message was self-deleted by its author.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)coming with these Software Programs with Glitches that take valuable time to work out...I guess. Sigh...
jmowreader
(50,559 posts)I really believe my company does payroll on an abacus - we may have upgraded all the way to hand-cranked adding machines, but that would only have been since I've been here. If something works, we do NOT replace it.
yewberry
(6,530 posts)It's bad enough that we actually have a shadow system and do the payroll (for about 2000 people) by hand.
Awesome. At least the system maintains employee addresses adequately.
Response to hedgehog (Original post)
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