President Obama's Second Term Has Not Yet Begun,

[MineralMan]

and the usual folks are already declaring it a disaster. I see FDL is starting its anti-Obama initiative up for the next four years, and others are jumping on board.

Ladies and gentlemen: The second term begins next week and lasts for four years. We shall see where it goes. We'll get to watch it, but it hasn't begun yet.

Can we please wait at least until it starts before declaring it a total loss? That would be great. Thanks!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

1. FDL, Ha ...what a joke Jane has become.

Takes money from both sides and bashes Obama. I think she is a paid operative of the GOP...

[tridim]

5. Seems like MSNBC wised up to her BS and stopped hiring her as a pundit.

It's a start.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

7. Now if we could only get the message out to everyone... n/t

[MineralMan]

15. And the Hamsher Wheel Continues to Spin.

Round and round it goes, endlessly.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

22. Arianna Huffington is no better.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

23. True...I rarely go to HP these days...

and change channels if she rides in on her broom.

[MineralMan]

24. Arianna Huffington is a Republican.

She has always been a Republican. She was one in California, where I first met her. She is still. Now that she's found a money-making proposition, she can relax and enjoy that status as a Republican again.

[nyquil_man]

2. Hacks gotta hack.

It's their job.

[RomneyLies]

3. They have to start early.

How else are they going to depress the progressive vote to insure the Republicans make gains in the House and take over the Senate?

[JoePhilly]

4. Oh sure, now you're trying to shut down legitimate criticism of Obama's 2nd term ...

failures just because his 2nd term hasn't even started yet!!!

That's typical Obama-acolyte-cheerleader-cult-of-personality behavior!!!

[MineralMan]

8. Yah, guilty as charged of supporting

the President I helped elect. I'll be here doing that throughout his second term, too.

[JoePhilly]

66. Me too ... After all, I'm a member of the cult

Too!!!

[Sekhmets Daughter]

10. No, I don't object to FDL because I don't accept criticism of Obama....

I have complaints of my own. I stopped reading anything coming out of FDL when I found out Hamsher does PR work for the right. Sorry, but I just don't trust anything she says any longer.

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. LOL ...

cheering loudly.

[nyquil_man]

6. And no matter how bad they are, nothing can compare to Romney's concern troll BS. nt

[malaise]

9. Amazing indeed

What's more even even Chuck Todd admitted this morning that he achieved most of what he promised.

[MineralMan]

11. Chuckie's just catching his breath, I think.

I'm sure he'll be right back to his usual faint praise and left-handed compliments of President Obama. Better Believe It!

[malaise]

13. Well as I wrote it's amazing that he didn't remember these facts during the

campaign. Ah well Obama didn't need him.

[Romulox]

45. Except *Renegotiating NAFTA*, I guess he meant. Also abandoning the Public Option.

And failing to close Guantanamo.

[1StrongBlackMan]

57. Remind me ...

how the House (Democrats and Republicans voted on funding President Obama's Executive Order on Closing GITMO?

[Romulox]

59. I'm not the one going around making the obviously false claim that Obama achieved all he promised.

He didn't. Not close.

[Hekate]

62. You didn't answer the question, either

[1StrongBlackMan]

63. B.S. ...

Unless you really want a dictator.

Never-mind.

[Romulox]

75. I've told you once: I won't bother with a poster who puts so little effort into his responses.

If you want a "dialogue", you have to hold up your side of the conversation. If you continue with responses like "B.S.", etc., don't expect any more effort from me in my responses to you.

[1StrongBlackMan]

76. My response reflect the content of that which I am respond to ...

You say he didn't close GITMO. President Obama did what he Consitutionally could to do so. His efforts were blocked by the other branch of our co-equal government. And you hold him responsible for GITMO still being open? That is either, intellectually dishonest or complete B.S., your choice.

Absent some extra-Consitutional action, i.e., dictatorial decree, how was President Obama to accomplish this?

[Romulox]

77. B.S. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

78. Okay, Mr. Pot. n/t

[Romulox]

79. What a bizarre and juvenile response. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. No more so ...

than your bizarre and juvenile, one word response.

I told you explicitly where you were, at best, intellectually dishonest, i.e., claiming that President Obama is responsible for GITMO's continuing to be open, when he has done everything constitutionally permissible to close it, yet you continue.

Maybe you took offense to my initial calling of B.S. on you post and that offense put you in unreasoned (non)argument mode, leading you to abandon your "argument", and into whinyland, i.e.,

If you want a "dialogue", you have to hold up your side of the conversation. If you continue with responses like "B.S.", etc., don't expect any more effort from me in my responses to you.

As if my total response was just commenting B.S. (as you have). What I said was:

B.S. ... Unless you really want a dictator.

Which is the only action (i.e., dictatorial decree) that President Obama could have taken after his Executive Order to close GITMO was confounded by Congress' refusal to fund the closure.

So if you wish to discuss this matter further; fine, have at it ... otherwise spare me your B.S.

[DevonRex]

88. But you ARE the one who's claiming anybody here said THAT.

[99Forever]

12. And so the...

.. the push to stop any criticism, legitimate or not, begins.

Lame.

[MineralMan]

14. Does it? Not really.

I just wish people would wait until the second term actually begins before trashing Obama's performance during it.

I have no doubt that there will be valid criticisms to be made. Some will be premature. Others will be simply incorrect, and a few will be justified.

But, the second term has not begun, now, has it?

[99Forever]

17. Yes MM, really.

But if you want pretend we haven't seen this play before, suit yourself.

We expect as much.

[MineralMan]

20. Uh-huh. OK.

Whatever you say...

I've seen the play, too. And I've been here longer than you have. So, I will suit myself. Thanks for the permission.

[99Forever]

21. NP.

Oh my, the old "I been here longer" shtick.

I'm freakin' crushed, I tell ya.

[Number23]

81. You know, the BOG should give you a damn weekly allowance.

NO ONE on DU talks about this group more than you. NO ONE. And that includes those actually allowed to post in it and who enjoy it immensely.

[rhett o rick]

82. I think the BOG is a great idea.

What I dont understand is the obsession with silencing critical discussion. "Please wait until _______ before you start to "bash" the president." I believe it is very democratic and Democratic to have debates over important issues. If others dont like to discuss issues, fine just dont try to stifle those that do.

[Number23]

84. Because most of the stuff that passes for "critical discussion" at least in General Discussion

is neither critical nor actual discussion.

And if a simple request to wait until the man's term actually begins before criticizing him and calling it a failure is so upsetting, I would suggest that some serious self-reflection is in order. This is exactly the type of knee-jerking that is unwelcome in the BOG and should be unwelcome anywhere that "critical discussion" is the order of the day.

Edit: Just noticed your self-delete of your post ONCE AGAIN trying to corral the President's supporters to the BOG. Probably not a bad idea to have deleted it.

[rhett o rick]

85. Waiting until "his term actually begins"? His term hasnt ended.

Besides, why have any moratorium on discussion? This is a discussion board.

As my elected representative I feel I have a duty to not only support his reelection but to also let him know how I would like him to represent me.

I dont mind at all the adulation for the President. I think he and the first family are well worth it. What I dont like is the continuous attempts to shout down those that would disagree with the president on specific issues. This is the wrong party for that behavior.

I self-deleted because I am trying to not waste my time arguing with those that are unwilling to discuss issues but are obsessed in shutting down discuss and disparaging those that dare be critical of our President.

I respect your support of Pres Barack Obama. Please respect my right to be critical of his actions on specific issues.

[Number23]

86. ONCE AGAIN, his second term has not yet begun

If being asked to wait until he is sworn in (which if his term had "never ended" as you seem to believe, he would not need to be sworn in twice) before criticizing his every turn and deeming this term a failure is too much to ask, then again, some desperately needed self-reflection is in order.

[rhett o rick]

87. Once again, his first term has not yet ended. He is currently our president.

And I will continue to lobby for We The People.

[Number23]

89. Lord, have mercy

Go back and read the OP. You are so set to auto-critic that you didn't bother to read that the entire thrust of the post was in reference to the President's SECOND TERM. Hence the name of the thread: "President Obama's Second Term Has Not Yet Begun and the usual folks are already declaring it a disaster"

And I will continue to lobby for We The People.

Wow.

If that didn't sound so laughably pathetic, I'd swear you had delusions of grandeur. As if that's even close to what you're doing, of as if anyone even remotely related to the levers of power read this web site or care about the handful of incessant critics that dwell here.

[rhett o rick]

91. "Pathetic", "delusions of grandeur". I think this discussion is done. nm

[Number23]

92. If you'd properly read the OP instead of always leaping to criticize and complain

this discussion would have never begun.

[sharp_stick]

18. 14 minutes, not very good.

You'll have to up your game if you want to be in on the "but it's only criticism" competition for the second term. This late response is totally bush league and won't get you anywhere near the practiced fingers of the well prepared "hair on fire" or "fainting couch" brigades you'll find yourself competing with.

[11 Bravo]

32. To be fair, this is only the pre-season for them. They will round into form soon enough.

[stevenleser]

33. Sure, why should you wait until the 2nd term to start criticizing the second term? You folks didnt

wait for his inauguration to start criticizing the first. In fact, Obama started being criticized in November of 2008 almost two full months before inauguration day.

That's a neat trick to criticize a Presidency two months before an inauguration where the election wasnt stolen (that is one criticism before inauguration I could understand)

[99Forever]

37. Sure, why should you wait for criticism to start criticizing the critics?

Shut 'em up and cut their legs out from under them before they have a chance to speak their minds.

YAY for mediocre Republican Lite!


(Oh and since you didn't notice, the guy is in office right now and is doing things that WILL be critical to where the "second term" goes.)<<<<< You can thank me later for the update.

[stevenleser]

39. How many examples of 2nd term criticism do you want? Pick a number from 1-5 nt

[99Forever]

40. Whatever.

[hfojvt]

16. well the 2nd cave on the Bush tax cuts

happened after the election

so it feels like part of the 2nd term.

and that damage will not be undone in four years.

[Rex]

19. Faster Den Light travel?

Keeding, haven't been to that site in years...went and looked at it. YIKES! But series...why care what FDL thinks? They don't have an ounce to do with our POTUS getting re-elected.

I could never understand why some people obsess over that site or the Huff.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

25. Sorry, MM. The ODSers live for bashing this president. They are typically the same

ones who have NOTHING positive to say about him. Nothing at all.

There's a difference between criticizing the president's decisions and not agreeing with them. But, you can always tell the ODSers because they take it a step further and start bashing the man himself, calling him names and such.

To those who expressed themselves thoughtfully, I have no problem with. The others, I put on IGNORE.

[MineralMan]

27. I don't use Ignore, personally. I find that it interferes

with my DU experience. I'd rather see what is going on without filters.

I agree with your assessment, though. There are a few regular posters who have never said a single good thing about Obama. Never. They're not "holding his feet to the fire." They're tying him to a stake and setting a bonfire under that stake. I don't consider that to be an acceptable approach to criticism of a sitting Democratic President.

I'm not happy with every direction this country is going in at all. However, I don't blame one person for the direction. In fact, the blame is rather easy to place, and it is not with the President. It is with the Republicans. If I saw more criticism of Republicans from some here, I'd be shocked. Some forget that they still hold a strong majority in the House, and can bollix up almost anything. That's something no President can overcome completely, although President Obama has managed to get a lot done, despite that situation.

I expect good things from his second term in office, especially if we can help him have a Democratic majority in both houses of Congress. That's where my energy will be going for the next two years.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

28. I agree!

I do expect that this president will attempt to deliever more great things in his second term, as long as we work with him. You're right: it has never been just about him. That is what the detractors on this board and elsewhere can't seem to grasp. It was always "YES WE CAN," not "YES I CAN". Of course we have the responsibility to hold his feet to the fire when he is wrong... and he has indeed been wrong on a number of issues. However, we cannot lose sight of the unprecedented level of obstruction, disrespect, and outright hatred of this president. That has contributed to a disfunctional government. Why more Americans are not outraged by that, I'm don't quite understand.

Finally, I should append my remarks by making clear that I don't use the IGNORE for everyone, just those who clearly trying to disrupt. Those who come with thoughtful comments that challenge me and make me think are refreshing, and add to my positive experience here at DU.

[greatauntoftriplets]

26. Yeah, I had noticed that the self-described...

"holding the feet to the fire" crap had started again. So predictable.

[Cha]

29. Oh, the same ol shit happened four years

ago around here. Nothing new.. but, all the internet whining during the first Admin has had no affect on the President's popularity with his base.. in fact it only made us stronger, imv. In spite of all the threats of not voting for him and "teaching him a lesson"..

There are valid criticisms and I for one welcome them.. it's places like fdl that only exist because of the profits made when they rag on President Obama that I find heinous. What was it jane hamsher said.. "Obama supporters are the dumbest motherf****** on the planet"..while rendering herself the Actual Dumbest motherfucker on the planet for saying it.

[NCTraveler]

30. I just don't get it. Is he supposed to change during his second term?

Was he faking people out in his first term?

[Romulox]

31. The OP is a "centrist" who applauds "moderate" positions in almost every post. What does the

time of the year have to do with your support for our "centrist" President? Not a thing. Complete red herring.

[stevenleser]

34. Red herring to criticize critique of performance during a term that hasnt started? I think not.

[Romulox]

46. The red herring is where he claims that *now* is a special time to limit critique of our *sitting*

President.

[MineralMan]

41. Since you're replying to that OP, you can go ahead and say "you."

But, I'm not a centrist. I'm a realist. I have to be to keep my sanity intact. What I want and what I expect to happen are two different things. I have learned in my 6+ decades is that what I want is not necessarily what I will get. I work with what is and try to get things to change, so what I want is a secondary goal. I recommend that approach.

[Romulox]

48. Reminds me of "compassionate conservatives" from a few years back. "Realist" my eye. nt

[pnwmom]

44. Where has the OP identified himself as a centrist?

I'm sure FR would classify him as a radical socialist, as they do Obama.

[Romulox]

47. He has 49,000 posts, many of them vanity posts in meta. We're allowed to remember

the contents of some of them.

[MineralMan]

51. Almost 50,000 now. I'll hit that number fairly soon, although I'm not posting as

frequently right now. I have work I have to do. Memory, however, is a selective thing. You remember what you remember, and not what you don't. That's how it goes. You remember some of my posts. I remember most of them. Selective, memory is.

[Romulox]

54. Not having the courage of one's convictions isn't something to brag about, that's for sure. nt

[MineralMan]

55. With that, I'll stop replying to you in this thread,

which is not about me. Reread the OP. That's what the thread is about. This is not Meta.

[Romulox]

56. I am devastated. nt

[MineralMan]

49. I've not used that term very often. I'm not a centrist, actually.

Philosophically, I'm a socialist. Practically, I'm a Democrat, since that's the best I can get in today's USA. I'm a realist, and don't bother tilting at windmills at my current advanced age. Each time an election comes around, I decide who the best candidates are who have a chance to be elected, and I vote for them. I'm a practical guy that way. When I think about someone like Mitt Romney as President, I start gagging. We get two choices as President.

[Enrique]

35. just to clarify..

are they actually saying that, or is this unfounded?

[Motown_Johnny]

36. I think it too will be historic.

Some action to decrease gun violence will be taken. Not enough to satisfy those of us on the left but still, something will be done.

The debt ceiling is going to be addressed in a serious way. It looks like some reform is going to happen there.

Immigration reform is a good bet. The (R)s know that they can't survive as a national party if they continue to obstruct on this issue.

The war in Afghanistan will end.

Odds are the economy will continue to improve and we have a real shot at discrediting conservative economic policies for a generation or more.

Same sex marriage equality is continuing to look more possible with challenges to the Defense of Marriage Act.

Health care reform will be enacted in it's entirety.


These are just the things I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure there will be even more things done which I can't even imagine.

I expect another very successful term.

[Enrique]

38. "there is a real possibility" of minor improvements on pot laws

pessimistic, yes, but hardly "declaring it a total losss"

http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2013/01/10/eric-holder-to-stay-on-as-attorney-general/

(...)

There is a real possibility that we could see some minor improvements from the Obama administration on this issue, but Holder remaining as Attorney General I suspect makes seeing a big shift in federal policy towards state marijuana laws less likely.

[Enrique]

42. "As you begin your second term, please think of your legacy"

again, not "declaring it a disaster"

http://my.firedoglake.com/jeffroby/2013/01/14/green-party-letter-to-barack-obama/

The Green Party of Florida mailed the below referenced letter to President Obama on January 9. We ask that he consider what legacy he will leave for the people of the United States, and the people of the World, at this critical juncture, with history as judge, and with respect to the expectations of the electoral majority who granted him his second term.


As you begin your second term, we ask that you consider what your legacy will be for the people of the United States and the people of the world. Please try to imagine some of the questions that future generations, including Malia and Sasha’s children, may be asking about your tenure as president. Questions such as: What did you do to deserve the Nobel Peace Prize? What did you do to make the U.S. a more just and democratic society?

(...)

We recognize that implementation of these suggestions will require broad support from the 30 percent of voters who supported you as well as the 44 percent who did not cast a vote. But with such pressure you could overcome the resistance from the Republican-controlled House and leave a formidable legacy of progressive programs. Should you choose to inspire and motivate your base of support, you will leave an enduring legacy about which you will be proud to tell your grandchildren.

[MineralMan]

43. I can't imagine a President who doesn't consider his legacy

during his term of office. Can you? You don't think he considers his own children when he makes decision. I doubt very much that his goals match those of the Green Party, frankly. They had their own candidate. Did they vote for President Obama? I doubt it very much. Do I care? I'm sure I do not.

President Obama's legacy is on his mind, I'm sure, as he attempts to get something done, despite the obstructionism of the Republicans in Congress. I'm sure he'll succeed, too.

[Enrique]

50. my point is you appear to be being unfair to FDL

i just provided a letter they posted, where they say "you could" to Obama 21 times, things he can do in his second term. By definition, they have not declared his 2nd term a failure.

Obama will probably read that letter, so good for them for sending it.

[MineralMan]

53. FDL publishes lots of stuff. You posted one thing.

Have a nice evening.

[Enrique]

58. I searched for the term "second term"

I looked for how they were commenting on his second term. That is what I found.

I gave two examples, you gave zero.

[leftstreet]

60. Obamalty Oaths are so DU2

Enough

[MineralMan]

61. Thanks for your reply, and for kicking the thread.

I don't remember asking for any loyalty oaths though, actually.

[Hekate]

64. KnR, MinMan

No, the usual suspects cannot wait and never could. Somewhere in their bitter little hearts is a black man with a Kenyan name who swore he was a leftist socialist and betrayed them as soon as he could, instead of a black American with a multi-cultural upbringing who has spent his life seeking the Middle Way.

Hekate

[stupidicus]

65. as is customary from the disciples

long on claims but short on substance.

the failure to show ones work is just one of many things rightwingnuts don't have a monopoly on, like exaggerating, etc.

I think it's something widely shared by those who have a weak if not nonexistent case.

[Buzz Clik]

68. LOL!!! He only suggested you wait and see. What "claims" did he make?

Jeebus effin' cristo.

[stupidicus]

69. my my, the "LOL" defense

that usually provides poor cover for abysmal reading comp skills

and the usual folks are already declaring it a disaster. I see FDL is starting its anti-Obama initiative up for the next four years, and others are jumping on board.

[Buzz Clik]

70. That's it? Oh crap. Even the person who poster the FDL material doesn't deny it.

Take off. You've got nothing.

[stupidicus]

74. thanks for conceding the validity of my remarks

I see nothing but more mindless bluster from you, but no FDL or alleged poster material in evidence with which to sustain the case made, much less an explanation as to how/why whatever they did post must lead inexorably to the single conclusion offered. WHat "poster" and what "FDL" material for example. Do you people always assume that everybody here lives here and reads every stinking post posted, or what? How silly is that?

And after all, hollow declarations merely reflect the condition of the head from which they come, or in the only plausible alternative, they are inspired by motives I'd not waste my time speculating about. Of course I have "nothing", because "something" hasn't been provided of the aforementioned kind.

I'll "take off" when and if I'm good and ready, not because your now demonstrated impotence on this matter is in evidence, and you're left with a response as silly as your last, as I suspect the next one will be as well.

"Take off" yourself, since you've shown you have nothing meaningful to provide in terms of establishing a prima facie case for the kinda guilt the top poster failed at providing too.

[Buzz Clik]

67. Why wait? Act like an ass today and join the crowd.

God help you if you support Obama.

[amandabeech]

71. Obama generally governs from the center-right. Some of us Dems

won't be satisfied until we get a Pres who is at least slightly center-left.

Obama managed to get a start to health care for all and he saved GM and Chrysler. Those are big deals and I give him full credit.

My major complaints about him revolved around his treatment of and his appointments from the financial services industry. They're crooks and most of the people who work for them aid and abet their shenanigans. Look at Lew. He ran the Citibank group that bet against Citibank MBSs. He received approximately $1 million of taxpayer bailout funds for doing it. Outrageous!

So . . . he gets to be the director of OMG, then Chief of Staff and now Treasury Secretary.

You tell me that I'm not supposed to judge his new appointment. You tell me to wait. Forget it. All wise, all seeing and all knowing Obama will fix it. Just give him time.

And I'm supposed to be really happy about that?

Forget it.

[NNN0LHI]

73. Please, please, let me know when I can start holding his feet to the fire

It means so much to me.

Don

[lonestarnot]

80. This is the only thread I've seen saying anything about a total loss.

What is up with that?

[Dpm12]

90. Second-terms

are usually more well-recieved than first-terms (Truman, Nixon, and Dubya being the exception), so, the joke is on the Repubs