Anyone who supports, or is a member of the NRA is antithetical to the Democratic President

[morningfog]

tomorrow.

Come tomorrow, you are with the President or you are with Wayne LaPierre. Choose your side. Are you pro-safety, pro-reform and pro-sense or are you pro-NRA, pro-fucknut, pro-obstructionist?

It may be a hard crossroads for some "Democrats" and "Independents," but it is your choice.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Meh. Ultimatums. Piss on 'em.

Cyber bullying only works on some people.

[morningfog]

9. How can you reconcile the two? The NRA will fight the POTUS,

if you support the NRA, you are opposing what is the first initiative of the second term.

[Buzz Clik]

15. This is so George Bushie/Karl Rovian. I hate it. "You are with us or against us."

And I don't even believe it. You even said that people who are NRA members are in opposition to the president. Really? That makes no sense. I have no doubt that a lot of NRA members are in total opposition to LaPierre and his lackies.

I think the president's proposal doesn't go far enough and that the leadership of the NRA are horrible corporate whores, but why the gigantic net?

[Animal Chin]

54. I don't feel the need to agree with the president

on every issue.

[geek tragedy]

81. The NRA is a virulently anti-Obama group, just like the FRC, birther orgs etc .

Anyone who pays dues to the NRA is like the people who send money to Hamas.

[Mojorabbit]

31. +100 nt

[loli phabay]

2. depends on why someone is a member

For some its for range membership for others its for the quals and training and for others the discounts and free accident insurance. Its like any membership people join for a multitude of reasons.

[Buzz Clik]

16. +1

[fleur-de-lisa]

35. + 2

[morningfog]

47. If your addiction requires you side with filth,

I feel sorrow for you. I hope you can find the help you need.

[loli phabay]

49. no addiction here im not the one who is going nuts over the isssue.

[morningfog]

52. Lol. Too funny.

[uponit7771]

67. +1!

[geek tragedy]

83. Well, some people send money to Hamas because of their social services.

Doesn't change the fact they're funding a terrorist organization.

[babylonsister]

3. Baloney. This doesn't help a sensible discussion. nt

[morningfog]

4. When the NRA comes out an explicitly fights his proposals, how can you deny it?

[babylonsister]

19. It's not a them v. us thing. Too many distractors. nt

[maggiesfarmer]

8. "doesn't help a sensible discussion" -- tactful and to the point. well put

[Buzz Clik]

17. +1

[Cha]

71. Perfectly worded, babylonsistah nm

[derby378]

5. I'm pro-Second Amendment. That good enough for ya?

Either you're with the Constitution or you're not. I realize that's a bitter pill for the Brady Campaign to swallow, but let's just say that the NRA, whatever its faults, does not have a monopoly on all things batshit.

[morningfog]

10. When the POTUS signs Executive Orders that the NRA loathes, where will you fall?

[leftynyc]

82. I'll read them and then decide

That's what adults do. You may want to consider taking your purity test to a place where people don't think much. You may have better luck.

[99Forever]

11. Are you?

Which well regulated militia are you a member of?

[TheKentuckian]

70. The right to keep and bear arms is not conditioned upon militia service.

The well regulated militia is a rationale, not the operative section. The operative section is that the right of the PEOPLE (not the states, not the Army which was already authorized under the constitution before the Bill of Rights was on the books) shall not be infringed, which logically excludes regulation in the terms you imagine.

The Bill of Rights are individual rights not liberties set aside for the states. The "collective rights" nonsense is an argument out of context with the rest of the work and makes little sense stand alone. The People at no other time points to a collective right in the document. Why this time and no other? What conveys this distinction?

Well regulated in that context means equipped and trained.

[99Forever]

74. So you only believe...

... in that part of the Constitution which supports your preconceived agenda.

Gee, what a fucking surprise.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Logical]

41. Well, you understand the NRA spends millions to defeat GREAT dems correct? n-t

[Hoyt]

57. At least "brady" does not contribute to gun abuse.

[Populist_Prole]

66. +1 Let's not go off the deep end alright?

I know sometimes you have to turn the hot water on full blast for a spell just to get the water warm enough to wash with, but let's not let passion make us be rash.

That is all.

[LAGC]

6. "You're either with us or against us."

Where have we heard that before?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. Keep your ultimatums to yourself.

It is possible to support the RKBA without being a patron or supporter of Wayne Lapierre. Lots of people do it every day... 80 million gun owners with only a few million actually members of the NRA.

[derby378]

13. Cheers!

[morningfog]

14. Is it possible to oppose the President's moves without opposing the President?

[loli phabay]

18. yes. thee is nothing to say one must agree or disagree with anything any politician says

Do you really want everyone to just agree with one man and what he says. Dont citizens have a responsibilty to question and disagree if they dont believe what a president says.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

28. Yes. Does everyone here cheer when he (frequently) authorizes cowardly drone strikes?

Last edited Tue Jan 15, 2013, 09:37 PM - Edit history (1)

You are free to disagree with the President. He's not a King, you know.

[whistler162]

12. Jawohl!!!

[Llewlladdwr]

20. I will not support any politician or party that seeks to restrict my civil rights. nt

[morningfog]

21. "Civil right" LOL!

[geek tragedy]

84. Look forward to your PPR, gun troll, nt

[leftynyc]

87. We hardly ever have a thread

where there are hyperbolic assholes on both sides of the issue. Interesting.

[Lizzie Poppet]

22. Yay! Another purity test!

Black-and-white, bipolar dichotomies posited over complex matters are for simpletons. I'll support or oppose President Obama based on my position on each separate issue and with no concern over how organizations like the NRA feel.

You know...like rational adults do.

[morningfog]

23. If you pay dues to the NRA, you are impeding the Democratic

President.

[Lizzie Poppet]

27. Inapplicable to me.

I have no use for the NRA. Not a member, not interested in becoming one. I consider them to be little more than a de facto branch of the GOP, at least in terms of their political efforts.

But your OP was broader than that...

[Demo_Chris]

24. Being pro-second amendment doesn't mean you are pro-NRA

Nor is gun control a left vs. right issue.

And no, the above does NOT reflect my position of gun control, but rather on the things people are posting about the issue.

[morningfog]

25. Being an NRA member does make you pro-NRA though.

[loli phabay]

33. not necessarily many join for discounts and use of the range etc

I joined years ago to use their range and rejoined recently for discounts and their free life and disability insurance as it was free.

[morningfog]

36. Sorry, you fail. You give them money, you support them.

[loli phabay]

39. no i got free membership so not exactly a fail.

[morningfog]

45. Ah, an NRA loophole. Lol.

You appreciate what they do, no?

[loli phabay]

48. their non political stuff is good and i take advantage of their discounts etc

[morningfog]

50. Fuck it all, you get discounts! Lol.

[loli phabay]

55. yup and free life insurance benefit which is not to be sneezed at and i dont pay a penny.

[Logical]

44. Wow, I am pro-gun and would never send money to a group out to destroy the Dems. Wow. n-t

[loli phabay]

46. i dont send money i get a free membership and free insurance so its a win win for me

[morningfog]

51. How do you get it free?

[loli phabay]

53. they have programs for vets and other people in government

[morningfog]

56. Seems messed up. Why should vets and "others in the govt"

Get a discount for the nr ducking a?

[loli phabay]

58. why not lots of businesses give discounts to a variety of groups.

[Kingofalldems]

95. An NRA supporter. No surprise here.

[loli phabay]

96. no as i said i dont support the political arm. but i do take advantage of their free to me programs

So i actually cost them money and i get benefits.

[geek tragedy]

59. Yes it does. Just like sending money to Hamas would make someone pro-Hamas. nt

[OldDem2012]

26. 1, I don't currently own a gun, although I have in the past; and 2, I have never been a member....

....of the NRA or any organization like them.

But, I personally believe there are RESPONSIBLE gun owners in the US who know how to handle firearms in a RESPONSIBLE way. I also believe some of those gun owners belong to the NRA, even though the NRA leadership doesn't appear to be speaking for them any more.

In my opinion, your comments are divisive and argumentative. They are doing NOTHING to add to the discussion about what should be done about gun control.

Finally, I don't like ultimatums of any kind. To be honest, I expect that kind of behavior from trolls and/or political extremists, not the majority of DU posters.

[lynne]

29. I've got a 30 second reply for ya -

- right here >

[FarCenter]

30. "W", is that you?

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

[MotherPetrie]

32. K&R

[TheKentuckian]

34. Tomorrow and the day after I will be on my side.

Who is else is on it is up to them not me. I am were I've been since the get go.

I'm not quick to line up behind either but have voted for Obama three times and 0 for LaPierre (no, I didn't vote for the President in the last primary).

[rrneck]

37. I'm sure this book has been mentioned here many times already but...

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

[morningfog]

38. I don't get it. My question is will you fight?

[rrneck]

40. Yes. If I have to. But I'd rather not unless all other options are exhausted.

How 'bout you. Are you ready to get skewered on your own ideology?

[morningfog]

43. How so?

[rrneck]

65. LOL!

Here's what happened in the other thread. I got bored. So I cornered the poster into having to admit one of two things. If he was half the fire breathing hard left die hard troll killing liberal he pretends to be, would he be willing to fight for his principles? If he said "yes", the obvious implication would be that he would have to use a gun to do his fighting. If he held to his anti gun rhetoric, he would have to admit he didn't have the guts to actually fight for what is right. Rather than answer he trotted out his dog and pony show and banged on the alert button in the hope of shutting me up. He scored a good jury and I got locked out. Whew. Lucky him. It was fascinating to watch.

I don't know about you, but the Bush administration disturbed me. I was living in the south at the time and the jingoism was truly troubling. And then they ran McCain and Palin and McCain might have won had it not been for his blithering idiot running mate. And imagine if he had won. Whenever I'm not satisfied with the Obama administration all I have to do is bring three words to mind: Vice. President. Palin. And then they ran Romney, who I consider to be a dyed in the wool fascist, and Ryan with him. And they got 47% of the vote. 47%.

Do you think all the people throughout history, as they were being walked up to the gallows or the firing squad, were thinking, "Whew, finally! It's about time."? Most likely they were wondering, "how did this come to pass?".

People have been fighting for two million years. I don't expect them to stop just because Barack Obama is president. I find it fascinating that the very idea of actual conflict, even though it has been part of the human experience since there have been humans, cannot even be contemplated because of ideological affectation. Democrats hate guns and Republicans love them, so we cannot even consider the possibility that they might be even theoretically necessary some day.

My position on guns and gun policy is just the same as it has always been. The gun control laws we have are as good as we can make them, any more will be beyond the point of diminishing returns. And it is always wrong to kill, every time, I don't care why. I have a journal if you want to see proof. And if you have absolutely nothing else in the whole wide world to do.

But hell, I don't know everything. Every proposal I have seen here can be shown to be unworkable with five minutes of research, but I'm not in touch with the White House. I'll be interested to see what they have planned. Either way I'll support it because we have bigger fish to fry. But whatever they do, it better work or the bunch on the other side of the aisle will kick the shit out of us next election. We're screwing around with their totem, and if we do it wrong it will be a shot of nitrous in their political engine.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

42. Once upon a time the NRA was about gun safety and marksmanship

These days they're just another paranoid right wing lobbying group.

[Jennicut]

60. This.

The NRA is about selling more guns for gun manufacturers and keeping those in power that will help with this agenda. There are other gun membership groups out there that are not right wing lobbyists.

[aikoaiko]

61. Are you or have you ever been a card carrying member of the NRA?

Because you're with us or agains us.

You're having your McCarthy and Bush moment all wrapped into one post.

[morningfog]

63. You sound panicked.

[aikoaiko]

64. I'm alright. I think everything will be OK.

[Paladin]

75. The NRA Is Now Targeting The President's Children.

If you want to front for such a loathsome organization on a Democratic site, be my guest.

[Yo_Mama]

62. So if I oppose President Obama's willingness to adopt C-CPI-U for SS

does that mean that I am utterly opposed to him?

You appear to be asserting that a person must support EVERYTHING a president supports, or be in opposition.

So does that mean I have to support the drones? The constant bills to enlarge and continue surveillance of the US population? Must I support federal prosecution of some poor jerk in CA providing medical marijuana?

I am not an NRA member, but I certainly do not agree with some of President Obama's policies, and I do not think that makes me his opponent. I think it makes me sane.

You appear to be advocating politics as a religion that substitutes the president for G_d the Father, and I think that's an astonishing position. Democracy is founded on negotiation. I would assume that the majority of NRA members favor some gun control measures. The president's proposals will be worked out in Congress, as they should be. There's no need to treat this as some Welterdaemmerung or Judgement Day in which the righteous are welcomed home and the unjust are thrown into the outer darkness.

If your position ever becomes the official position of the Democratic party, it's going to be a very small party. Very small. It will be some modern form of a political cult.

[Puzzledtraveller]

68. I signed in just to give you a +1

Very well said!

[gkhouston]

69. I wish we could rec individual posts. You rock. n/t

[stklurker]

72. +1

These 'purity posts' are really dumb

[Yo_Mama]

89. D's are too large a party to ever be "pure"

And I don't like the "purity" concept applied to individuals or groups. Humans aren't food, and shouldn't be treated as such.

We would not wish the Democratic party smaller, but that means it will remain a big tent with a diverse electorate.

[Paladin]

77. "Some Modern Form Of A Political Cult"

That would be the present-day NRA. Predicting the same status for the Democratic Party is wishful thinking, on your part.

[Yo_Mama]

88. I think you are deliberately misreading my post

Judging by the responses to the OP, the Democratic party will be alive and well long after I am dead.

In no way am I predicting its demise - I was just pointing out the fallacy in the logic of the OP. Blindly supporting any politician on any policy is not only not a help to that politician, but it undercuts the party itself.

I don't know enough about the NRA to comment on your other point - but it's tiny. It is not and never will be the opinions of the NRA that count, but the attitudes of the majority of the electorate. When I googled I found that NRA said they had 4.25 million members. President Obama ALONE got over 65 million votes this last election!

[Paladin]

91. If I Misinterpreted Your Post, It Wasn't Deliberate. Thanks For The Follow-Up. (nt)

[geek tragedy]

86. The NRA is a far right wing organization. It is not about guns, it is about

making arms dealers rich and advancing the Koch brothers ideological view.

the NRA is the enemy.

[pediatricmedic]

73. What will you do when people say no to your ultimatum?

Do you plan to hunt them down and kill them?

Do you want to take away their rights and freedom?

Do you want to impoverish them and make them into second class citizens?

Your already dehumanizing the opposition with your language, making it easier and more acceptable to do bad things to them.

[samsingh]

76. i completely agree

the nra is always hitting a new low

they are a sick twisted joke who have brainwashed millions into believing that their view on guns is the patriotic one. in reality, it is only about making money through guns - no matter how many people are slaughtered

[LWolf]

78. Bullshit.

Pure bullshit.

You don't get to decide where to draw lines in the sand for anyone but yourself.

For the record, I am not now, nor have ever been, a member of the NRA or a gun owner. I never will be. I don't stand with Wayne LaPierre.

I AM a Democrat, and when the Democratic President is right, I'm behind him. When he's not, I'm not. The Democratic President is not a holy, untouchable entity that must be upheld at all costs. He's simply a man doing a job; sometimes well, sometimes not. His supporters don't owe him. HE owes US.

There's nothing hard about that.

[avogadro]

79. Hmmmmmmmm.........

Mecca lecca high, mecca hynie ho!

[leftynyc]

80. Nonsense

Purity tests are for simplistic thinkers. Are you a simplistic thinker?

[geek tragedy]

85. Wow, the guneoneers and death fetishists are really worked up

over this thread.

NRA goons need to go.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

90. Thanks for this thread. You will expose DU's nastiest gun nuts as their collective heads explode. nt

[Dpm12]

92. Reply

JFK was a member of the NRA

[cyberswede]

93. The NRA was completely different then.

It was just a sporting club.

[Agschmid]

94. +1 n/t