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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsResponse to CatWoman (Original post)
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XemaSab
(60,212 posts)that cats do to native wildlife.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....some species of wild birds. For instance, mice have a very rapid reproduction rate...one female can produce 5 to 10 litters per year of between 4 to 15 young. Predation by cats is all part of the process of natural selection.
Additionally, the new study appears to have originated with an individual in New Zealand who is calling for the total elimination of cats to protect the wild bird population in that country. Interesting approach, one that may not get much support.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)rodents such as rats. And if we provide the right habitat, there are plenty of other predators out there which can control mice populations AND not harm songbird populations the way feral cats do. If you want to keep a cat, fine. But take care of it and keep it indoors.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)LOL. Please inform my cat that she isn't very good at killing rats, then, because apparently she doesn't know this.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)There are cats who use the toilet and flush it also but generally cats do not do this. And there is no need to even get into skate boarding dogs.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)where she stays most of the time. When she gets out, she seems to be able to find a mouse, a rat or a shrew anywhere in the vicinity. I've never even seen a mouse or a rat anywhere near inside of the house, but apparently, there were some lurking around outside.
Mine just happens to be extremely proud of herself when she gets them and brings them home to show me. Unless it is a mouse. Which she brings home and eats. :shudder: Nastiest thing I've ever seen.
She's not necessarily huge, though she is bigger than average. I would give a mouse or a rat about a 30 minute lifespan when she is on the prowl.
dgibby
(9,474 posts)in Charleston, SC. several years ago. The PTB decided to trap and relocate them. Within 2 weeks of their removal, we had wharf rats that were bigger than the cats that used to catch them. Within a week of the failed attempt to eradicate the rats, the feral cat colony was back. No more rats, no more problem.
Also, there was a rat problem in my neighborhood, secondary to construction in the area and disruption of habitat. My cat made it her personal mission to rid us of the rat problem. I'd find 1 to 2 dead rats on the patio , sometimes more a couple of times a week. I didn't mind her killing them, just hated that she brought them to me. Ugh!
malaise
(269,054 posts)We feed the feral cats in our neighborhood and they sure keep the rats away
dgibby
(9,474 posts)I have 4 feral cats in a cage in my basement. My niece is involved in a trap, neuter, release program, and these cats are here until they can be released following surgery. The weather has been too cold to let them out right now, but they'll be released asap. My cats and dogs don't even realize they're down there. Don't know what that says about their collective IQ, but things are going ok so far. The cage they're in is huge and they seem content.
malaise
(269,054 posts)They spay, neuter and give them away
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)It works!!!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)are the huntresses. It is also shown in every group of cats. Males don't give a crap and hunt out of opportunity. Female cats don't hunt to maim, they hunt to kill and bring it back home.
That isn't an opinion, that is scientific fact backed up with studies and reports. It isn't surprising that people that have primarily kept male cats don't understand this about their species.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to be able to bring it home and show you how proficient they are. I have no idea where mine finds them, but she always brings them home as a gift on the patio. I think females are far better hunters than males. Males tend to be lazier, it's the female cats that bring in the groceries, and boy, do they ever.
4_TN_TITANS
(2,977 posts)their human families. If only I had a taste for 1/2 day old dead mole, I'd really eat like a king. I agree that the females are the breadwinners, whether it's big or little cats.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'd be situated for live with meat. My cat doesn't quit, and even though I've tried to help her stop being a destructer, it's fruitless. She is going to be a predator, and I can pretty much jump in the lake.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)moles, I'l live like a queen. Nine of them. Piled up in 30 minutes. I do not kid. My girl is relentless.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to watch them camp out by a pile of wood or debris and just ... wait. They will sit there for eternity until the rodent in question comes out.
KT2000
(20,583 posts)My little 7 lb cat used to catch mice, moles, rats, nutria and some other thing that was almost a big as she.
She does not go for birds.
And yes - until my cat took up residence we were over-run with mice. One climbed out of my dashboard while I was driving. My neighbor had them coming in through her heat ducts. They got into her cupboards etc.
Someone was killing cats in the neighborhood so all cats went inside. Then the mice took over. My cat was dumped here by someone and she took up residence where the food supply was plentiful - rodents, not birds.
NickB79
(19,253 posts)I don't recall reading about how North America was a sea of swarming mice and rats when Columbus landed, with the Native Americans begging for a few housecats for rodent control.
The native small predators on this continent (snakes, weasels, ermines, fishers, bobcats, hawks, owls, etc) did just fine maintaining a balance for millions of years without the help of domesticated housecats. Their decline in recent years is in large part due to the predation done by cats on their once numerous prey.
Remove the cats, and native species would flourish, including the predators that would stop varmint overpopulation. And I for one would love to see a more diverse, species-rich environment in my backyard rather than Mr. Whiskers pissing in my flower beds.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)I have used a similar argument with native pollinators vs introduced honey bees and get a lot of push back on that as well.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....other than cats, on the ever-increasing loss of their native habitats to farming and urban sprawl. With the decreasing population of the predators you listed, the cats have taken up the slack and still can't keep pace with the varmints.
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)with grain stores. Rats evolved to eat the food the humans leave behind--or store. So, humans started keeping carnivorous pets that would eat the rats but not the grain.
As a rat lover, I feel awful when my cat brings home a mouse, but he is doing what nature intended him to do.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)They were brought in on ships, like they came from most countries. There are supposedly rats the side of a large cat in the New York subway system from Africa. They aren't native. Well, neither is the domesticated cat, but they take care of any such problems handily.
Weasels and bobcats flourish in the less populated areas, and hawks fly overhead where I live. I have no idea about owls, because you won't see them unless they want to be seen. There are PLENTY of rodents to go around in suburban areas, and in more rural locations, you still see foxes and hawks flourishing. I can't vouch for ermines, because I live in the south.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Most people just don't see them since they're night hunters and sleep in their dens during the day. THere's all kinds of critters roaming outside late at night in suburbia that most people haven't a clue exist in their neighborhood.
The foxes here take care of the rats and mice. Earlier in the season I had a mouse problem in the house because the foxes were hunting elsewhere for some reason. Once they came back, no mice, no rats, no snakes and unfortunately no chipmunks cause you rarely saw them and I think they're cute (they also had no interest in coming in the house or getting in peoples' trash).
I FAR prefer the foxes than the damn cat that used to live outside with the buttheads that used to live next door. No more cat piss or crap in my yard and no more dozens of dead shrews in my yard either (though why it wanted to put them in MY yard rather than her owners next door is beyond me). The buttheads moved and left the cat (they never cared about it anyway and never let it in the house no matter the weather... and keeping its food dish outside was just an invitation to all kinds of rodents to swarm). Now it lives with one of the neighbors up the street and is a happy indoor cat that's not causing a plague of problems in the neighborhood anymore. I don't miss it yowling its kitty brains loose all night outside my bedroom either. And the foxes actually EAT the critters they catch rather than leaving their vermin and parasite infested rotting corpses on peoples' door steps, porches and in their yards.
I seriously don't get why so many people that have cats think it's their right to allow their cat to roam freely causing a problem for their neighbors. I sure as hell wouldn't dream of letting my dog do that. And why in the world would they WANT their cat roaming freely to get hit by cars, eat wild critters infested with vermin and parasites or get killed by some bigger predator or stolen by some asshole? I'd NEVER subject my dog to that and don't let him eat critters that likely have some kind of vermin or parasites, seeing as I love him, am responsible for what he does and responsible for his health and wellbeing. Seems common sense to me that if you own a pet you're responsible for what it does, and you bloody well SHOULD care what your pet is subjecting your neighbors to.
Texasgal
(17,045 posts)My Mom has a huge problem with the neighbors cats that have multiplied into a about a dozen now. They have gotten under my Mothers house and have pissed and sprayed, torn up insulation, and chewed through wires.
The piss and crap all over the yard, so my Mothers dogs now have to be taken out on leashes in a fenced back yard so that they don't eat the cat crap or worse....roll in it. UGH. It's bullshit that My Mom has to do this! She has a fenced yard and should be able to use it!
We spoke to the neighbors, called the city.. they don't care. They were finally forced to stop feeding them or face daily fines... the cats have persisted though. I've been looking at rescue groups to come and help but they are so overwhelmed that there is a waiting list!
I love cats, don't get me wrong... just had to put down my seventeen year old sweetie that was a big part of my life! She was never an outdoor cat.. ever. She was a Diva that was loved and stayed indoors all of her life which is why I think she lived that long. My dogs don't go roaming the streets uncontrolled! I love my pets and take CARE of them.
It pisses me off that there are people that just let their cats roam. Take responsibility for your animals dammit!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)like the cat was hoping and praying that you would adopt it. That's how I got this addition to the family. The poor girl was starving, and she just wormed her way into my heart, and now she is a mostly indoor cat that likes to curl up and sleep on the futon or in the bed You would never know that she was half feral and relying on critters for her meals if you saw her now, because she is sweet as pie.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Loss also added wild or free-ranging cats without owners, of which he estimated to be between 30 and 80 million.
"We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.4 to 3.7 billion birds and 6.9 to 20.7 billion mammals annually," the study explains.
"Unowned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 2, 2013, 01:45 AM - Edit history (1)
All came on ships.
90% of the species.
Those are FACTS.
EDIT and you are correct. I think I replied to the wrong post, sorry if it caused confusion, GC
Response to XemaSab (Reply #2)
devilgrrl This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Why aren't all these articles mentioning them? The fact is cats and dogs are predators and they will hunt and kill. The practical way is to control the feral cat population like they do in my county. We have a catch and release program in my county. The cats are neutered and released back into the fields. Volunteers man feeding stations so that they get enough to eat and don't have to hunt. It also stops breeding so that the landscape isn't overrun by starving feral cats. They do their job in controlling rodent populations. Ever heard of bubonic plague?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It works.
Flaxbee
(13,661 posts)instinct tells them to do.
If humans were responsible creatures, we wouldn't have so many ferals -- sure, there'd be some, but not the abundance we have today.
this is how I see it. We have feral cats because people were irresponsible and didn't spay/neuter and they get abandoned, they reproduce as they do, then all if a sudden you have huge populations of them. These cats are just being cats.
Put the blame where it belongs, the irresponsible people who allow this to happen.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)Cats do however, kill a lot of songbirds. We once had a cat who caught and killed a flying squirrel. That was one talented cat.
LisaLynne
(14,554 posts)But yeah, it's been mostly that one article being reposted a thousand times, isn't it?
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)THAT was dumb, IMO and is why that argument will go no where. The issue isn't indoor cats, but FERAL DOMESTICATED cats. Likewise there is a major problem with feral dogs in some areas.
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/30/death_to_the_house_cat_partner/
Not to worry, though... The kitty is already out of the bag and is not about to go back in!
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)It's the tame but indoor/outdoor (or exclusively outdoor) and the feral cats that are killing birds. NOT the ones that live safely indoors.
People need to spay/neuter, keep kitties indoors most if not all of the time, and the feral cat colony thing needs to be re-examined.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)It's like gun owners assuming that an attack on some guns is an attack on all guns.
I don't think asking people to keep their cats indoors is unreasonable.
Response to XemaSab (Reply #24)
seaglass This message was self-deleted by its author.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)they live longer, and the things that they consider "prey", including beautiful songbirds, will live longer too.
as for the varmints everyone is complaining about, there are birds of prey and other "wild" life perfectly designed and often native to take care of them.
it's funny how people who claim to love cats and the environment are offended by advice that benefits both.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)And fight and bully other cats and tease the dog. I know that for a fact. Plus some of them are friggin prima donnas who have to have their food "just so." And some Persians cats are evil. You can't turn your back on some of them.
OwnedByCats
(805 posts)think? I've had quite a few cats in my life and while on occasion they barf, I've never had one eliminate inappropriately, expect their food to be "just so", scratch the furniture or behave in any kind of evil fashion.
I will grant you, some cats have distasteful behavior, but many times that is due to their environment more than anything else and it can be changed. Watch "My Cat From Hell" some time. The guy in that show has helped a lot of cat owners change the outrageous behavior of their cats with just a few simple changes, some of which have to do with their attitudes towards their cat as cats can be very sensitive to the negativity of their owner. They can feel it many times.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 2, 2013, 12:44 AM - Edit history (6)
is currently probably curled up on the futon. It has taken time to gain her trust to transition her into a housecat, but she is very well-mannered.
She does like to hunt, though, and I'm not certain anything I could possibly do would break that habit. She has gotten a lot fatter, and is less inclined to hunt than she is to menace other cats coming into her "territory", but she's still a cat that learned to survive after nearly starving to death.
She is probably the sweetest cat I've ever had, and even a hint of disapproval causes her to not do whatever she did again with just a gentle "no". She won't attack the wrens building nests in the rafters because I told her no, if you can believe it.
She's just a plain tabby cat, though, so unless you knew her personality, you'd probably think her feral or mean. She's sweeter than my fluffy himalayan, and better mannered too, and the fluffy one hasn't ever set foot outside except by accident.
That's her playing with a silly toy I made for her out of an old sock .
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/6oviu
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
asjr
(10,479 posts)In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)I meant no disrespect to Ms. Spears.
I have several of her CDs.
And wish her success!
2naSalit
(86,646 posts)West Side Story?
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Or, some people are depressed that they don't have that magic thing inside them that draws animals to them?
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Sometimes he starts MAOing at some odd hour of the night. I taught him how to talk, and he sure knows how to project and take advantage of room acoustics.
hlthe2b
(102,292 posts)siligut
(12,272 posts)Then this bruiser of a cat just loved him up until he relented, it was so funny to watch
Aerows
(39,961 posts)until my fluffy Himalayan came along. Now he is her biggest advocate. She LOVES him and has started staying there. I don't think you could part the two of them with a crowbar. I don't know what it is about her, but he just adores her. I think she is pretty much his cat now, not mine LOL.
was the same way. He wasn't a huge fan if cats until my mom got a Himalayan. He bonded with her so much it shocked me. My dad is not a cryer, but when she died he cried like a baby.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Maybe someone also knows how to train cats to only hunt rodents, both the four-legged and "flying" kinds
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)get the red out
(13,466 posts)And I am technically a "dog" person.
2on2u
(1,843 posts)SharonAnn
(13,776 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)was distinctly anti-cattle due to their vicious natures
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)rabbit-haired mouse toys.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)libodem
(19,288 posts)Reminds me of the litter Bob and Ralph came from. Bob was yellow and Cadphie is a bit like the far left kitty. Yep, she's a Democrat cat.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Here's an artistic representation of the existential crises cats suffer every day.
From my favorite Facebook kitteh:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=519033768117481&set=a.395276467159879.89194.135202846500577&type=1&theater
CatWoman
(79,302 posts)DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)"I had fun once." "I hated it."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)well, hell, face, I've never seen one
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)IMPORTED starlings that ravage my bird feders so my Kitteh TV is usually turned off during the day......
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,738474,00.html
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)piled up asleep. She could take care of that problem if she wasn't eating Fancy Feast and generally being loved on. Maybe she could fill in for an hour or two
kentauros
(29,414 posts)Oh, he'll sneak out, but run right back in as soon as someone is seen moving around below the balcony. I think he only likes "talking" to the birdies
Aerows
(39,961 posts)she's female, after all. She is just lazy now that she is well fed.
kentauros
(29,414 posts)I have mine on a thyroid medication, so he's getting canned food all the time now. Normally, he finishes it (half of a 5.5oz can) in about five minutes, and there goes 1.5 crushed pills!
He's still active, just inside. He is weird in that he won't kill bugs, but will sit in front of them, watching, or maybe waiting for me to do something about it
2naSalit
(86,646 posts)To me it looks like it's pulsating~
sunwyn
(494 posts)other predators. And we all know what creature is the most destructive to wildlife - humans.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)cats are the worst.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Houses and landscaping in suburban and urban environments completely alter the ecosystem. Exotic trees and shrubs may be suitable habitats for some native species, but not for all, and they are attractive to exotic animals.
Human habitation provides opportunities for animals that we regard (rightly) as vermin to thrive. Cats, and dogs to some extent, serve as valuable controls to keep rats and mice, etc. from getting completely out of hand.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It isn't as though human being alter the landscape, no it must be the cats causing problems. Uh huh.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)RebelOne
(30,947 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)They congregate in my spirea bush in the back yard.
http://www.allaboutbirds.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=1258
Bake
(21,977 posts)Bake
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Just awful animals.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Why do you dislike cats so much?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)And I think they are sneaky and snobby!
Too much shedding. Many cats I have encountered are attack cats who like to sneak up on you and jump and claw you.
Just nasty little buggers.
I've personally never had a cat attack me from behind, nor owned one that did that to anyone. Certainly they can flip out as any mammal can, but is this based upon an experience with one specific cat?
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)We just don't get along. I'm cool with it.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)a couple of years ago because we had a vole/shrew infestation that we couldn't keep up with using our live traps. After about a week of the cats here, the voles were gone, and we haven't seen any inside since. My old cat is too old and arthritic to do much hunting these days. She goes outside sometimes in the summer, but she just lays on the poirch in the sun.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Why not just trash threads that don't idolize cats?
LisaL
(44,973 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)That's about all there is.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Ian David
(69,059 posts)Probably some subtly NSFW language
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)CatWoman
(79,302 posts)those guys are the absolute CUTEST!!
KansDem
(28,498 posts)THE WHITE SWARM!!!
That'll learn 'em!
G_j
(40,367 posts)about the all out slaughter of hundreds of wolves in this country. Less than a handful have shown any interest. This place is just a big bag of wind these days. I've been here for a long time. I really don't find it very compelling anymore.
stuntcat
(12,022 posts)kills me for anyone to blame any species besides humans for endangering wildlife.
Yes, ALL cats and dogs need to be spayed and neutered until the populations are manageable.
Yes, our exploitation of everything on earth needs to end to have any chance at slowing down the mass-extinction we started.
And Yes, factory meat farms are a horrific full-time 24/7 shame on our entire species.
And No, none of this can be blamed on any animal except humans. To pick out another species to blame is just sad.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)all by themselves. They didn't ride here on boats due to the shipping trade and set up shop. No, not at all.
Domestic cats didn't sail on ships, either, because the friendly rat was particularly benign on the population of sailors and the ports they sailed into.
DogPawsBiscuitsNGrav
(408 posts)Just kidding. I live in a very nice neighborhood but it actually stinks around here from all the feral cat pee when we get rain and humidity. On the plus side they keep the scorpion population down. One that teases the dogs was killed the other night by a car. I hated it teasing the dogs but I'm sad it got it got hit. I pulled over to make sure it wasn't suffering. I wish people would spay and neuter.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Because they have the cat pee tree. Just saying. If it is when you get rain and humidity, that is exactly when the cat pee tree releases its "essence".
Cat piss smelling tree: Large purple draping blossoms. Beautiful to look at, smells like, well, cat piss.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)You've read of several kinds of Cat,
And my opinion now is that
You should need no interpreter
to understand their character.
You now have learned enough to see
That Cats are much like you and me
And other people whome we find
Possessed of various types of mind.
For some are sane and some are mad
And some are good and some are bad
And some are better, some are worse -
But all may be described in verse.
You've seen them both at work and games,
And learnt about their proper names,
Their habits and their habitat:
But
How would you ad-dress a Cat?
So first, your memory I'll jog,
And say: A CAT IS NOT A DOG.
Now Dogs pretend they like to fight;
They often bark, more seldom bite;
But yet a Dog is, on the whole,
What you would call a simple soul.
Of course I'm not including Pekes,
And such fantastic canine freaks.
The usual Dog about the Town
Is much inclined to play the clown,
And far from showing too much pride
Is frequently undignified.
He's very easily taken in -
Just chuck him underneath the chin
Or slap his back or shake his paw,
And he will gambol and guffaw.
He's such an easy-going lout,
He'll answer any hail or shout.
Again I must remind you that
A Dog's a Dog - A CAT'S A CAT.
With Cats, some say, one rule is true:
Don't speak till you are spoken to.
Myself, I do not hold with that -
I say, you should ad-dress a Cat.
But always keep in mind that he
Resents familiarity.
I bow, and taking off my hat,
Ad-dress him in this form: O CAT!
But if he is the Cat next door,
Whom I have often met before
(He comes to see me in my flat)
I greet him with an OOPSA CAT!
I've heard them call him James Buz-James -
But we've not got so far as names.
Before a Cat will condescend
To treat you as a trusted friend,
Some little token of esteem
Is needed, like a dish of cream;
And you might now and then supply
Some caviare, or Strassburg Pie,
Some potted grouse, or salmon paste -
He's sure to have his personal taste.
(I know a Cat, who makes a habit
Of eating nothing else but rabbit,
And when he's finished, licks his paws
So's not to waste the onion sauce.)
A Cat's entitled to expect
These evidences of respect.
And so in time you reach your aim,
And finally call him by his NAME.
So this is this, and that is that:
And there's how you AD-DRESS A CAT.
--T.S. Eliot
EastKYLiberal
(429 posts)He holds his head up with pride and I reward him with pettings.
kiva
(4,373 posts)that these stories are being pushed heavily online and have been since there was a story on 20/20 (I think) about the shrinking population of some birds. Sad that it's here too, but we've never been invulnerable against trendy hate stories.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)Pretty much
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)This shouldn't be a conflict at all.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Two of them ended up in my house close to Christmas one year. They got in through the crawl space. Imagine my surprise when a large orange cat peeked at me from my living room closet. I lured him out with some tuna. Later a big grey cat came by she wasn't as friendly. They both liked picking on my puppy though who soon learned to avoid them unless she wanted some claws upside her nose.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Lady Freedom Returns
(14,120 posts)I guess the lines have been drawn.