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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAbout the guy who walked into JC Penney's with an AR-15 (UPDATED)
On Saturday, January 18, 2013 I posted my opinion about the "open carry" of assault weapons in public places like JC Penney's. (Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022218233) I received some great positive feedback (thank you!), but a righteous rant on DU didn't feel like "doing enough" about such an important issue, so last week I called JC Penney's to ask them to change their policy about allowing "open carry assault rifles" in their store. The customer service representative was appropriately horrified, and promised a call back within 48 hours.
That was a week ago. I haven't heard from them. I called back today, got put on hold for a while, and then was told I should write an email because no one would call me back about this issue.
Okay then - I went to "change.org" and have started a petition. If this is a position you can support, I would very much appreciate it if you would sign it, and help spread the word. (I modified my original post a little bit for the petition.)
PETITION LINK: https://www.change.org/petitions/jc-penney-company-inc-please-post-signs-banning-open-carry-guns-in-jc-penney-stores?utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
JC Penney Company, Inc.: Please post signs banning "open carry" guns in JC Penney stores.
Several weeks ago a news story with pictures made the headlines when a 22-year old man was "shopping" at a JC Penney store in Utah with an AR-15 strapped to his back. (Link to story: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=23769604)
Apparently he was doing it because he could and it was legal and he wanted to "educate" people.
It has been bothering me to the point of nightmares.
I am the mother of five year old boy/girl twins, and the Newtown massacre - well, I am NOT over it.
It is my job as a parent to teach my children how to behave, and I don't just mean "manners" - I teach them how to behave around potentially dangerous situations - "Don't touch a hot stove!" - and what to do if they are lost, or the house is on fire, or a tornado is coming.
And now I also have to teach them how to behave around gun wielding lunatics, because it is becoming a societal "norm" that they may have to face.
I am not happy about this, but it is now a necessity. Maybe it should have been before - the Batman massacre really started the discussion for my husband and I - but after Newtown, it is obviously not optional anymore.
We don't have guns in our house. My father had guns - a couple of hunting rifles and a pistol at one point when his work with law enforcement caused him to be threatened (he wasn't law enforcement, but he helped put bad guys in jail, and they didn't like it) - but they were kept put away, out of sight. I am not a "hunter" person, so other than sixth grade "hunter safety", guns are not a part of my life, AND I LIKE IT THAT WAY.
Guns are tools. I get that. Hunting rifles are used to hunt - so why was this fool bringing one into a JC Penney store?
My immediate response would have to be "To Hunt."
I cannot tell the difference between a random madman armed with assault weapons and an idiot trying to make a moronic point that BY LAW he is entitled to behave like a fool by bringing (charitably) a "HUNTING RIFLE" into a place where the only "GAME" is human beings.
For safety's sake, I would immediately flee the scene, urging everyone else to do the same, but making sure my children are safe first and foremost.
I don't care if it could be considered an over reaction by this fool and his friends. I don't have super secret telepathic powers that enable me to discern "MURDEROUS MAN ABOUT TO GO ON A RAMPAGE" versus "FREAKING MORON WITH BAD JUDGMENT TRYING TO MAKE A STUPID POINT."
He is a man openly carrying a "hunting rifle" where the only available targets are PEOPLE.
Stoves are hot. Tornado sirens mean seek shelter. Guns are dangerous tools; if you see one where it doesn't belong, get away!
I love my children. That man needs his guns taken away, and if the law can't do it, I hope his family takes care of the problem.
If they don't, there is a good chance the man is going to end up shot.
I don't carry a gun, but the next "non-telepathic parent" he encounters might, and I don't want my family anywhere near an unnecessary and completely foreseeable "firefight."
In the meantime, I am starting this petition to ask JC Penney to join other sensible retailers across the nation to ban "open carry" guns in their stores so that my children and I can shop safely without being endangered by irresponsible gun owners who don't understand that hunting rifles don't belong in retail establishments and/or the potential firefight between them and an armed "non-telepathic" person trying to play the hero.
Thank you in advance, everybody.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)If they don't get at least one hundred signatures, it does nothing.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Control-Z
(15,682 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)It means a lot to me!
lillypaddle
(9,580 posts)kick
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)rivegauche
(601 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)I also went to JCPenney's facebook page and posted my thoughts right after the picture went viral. It got quite a bit of attention.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)monmouth3
(3,871 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)What a eunuch looks like?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I believe it meant "educate people that he had a right to carry assault rifles anywhere he wanted."
That is an assumption, though.
zinnisking
(405 posts)Tomorrow when I go to work why don't I do the moonwalk from the parking lot all the way to the building, then do jumping jacks til I get to my locker because I have the right.
Orrex
(63,215 posts)nick of time
(651 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Milliesmom
(493 posts)And forwarded to friends and family. Thanks for doing the petition.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)But not on that site.
(off topic)
I have found out by experience that they use your email address for advertising. I have the advantage of running my own mail servers and when I register on a new site, I make up another email address just for that purpose to see if they advertise it. If the site does, then I can just delete the address. I got spam from that one. Not a lot but enough specifically geared to the subject to know it's not as private as I would like. The White house site is a good site for petitions. Maybe there are others..
(/off topic)
Private ownership of assault weapons is for the socially twisted. Carrying assault weapons in public is a bullying, sociopathic, and uncivilized.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I have been signing petitions with them for a while - blessed be the spam filter!
Perhaps, if you can't sign the petition, you might be willing to drop a letter in the mail? I included the address as part of the petition information....
Please?
defacto7
(13,485 posts)And while I'm at it, I'll see if there are other reputable petition sites.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I don't know any other way to get the "rules" changed except letting the management team *know* there are unhappy people.
And please keep me updated on what you find!
Digital Puppy
(496 posts)K&R
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)maynard
(657 posts)Does JC Penny have store security that are allowed to carry guns?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)maybe it is a store/regional thing, but I don't recall seeing armed security at our local store.
kag
(4,079 posts)Your petition is eloquent and poignant. I signed it immediately.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)It means a lot to me.
I know this probably sounds stupid, but I don't want to ever have to face the parents of Sandy Hook and NOT have done *something* to save them even a second of future trauma. And if *I* can't handle seeing an AR-15 in JC Penney's, I can't even think what it might mean to them!
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)You may want to repost it in a couple of days for those who do not see your message today as it seems it is getting some good report from DUers.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I just want to be careful about that I am not boring people (since I pretty much copied an earlier post). I *really* want it to get to at least the hundred before anything happens with it....
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)Just kidding, but I do not think people here would get bored by this type of activism. I always try to sign any that are posted if I agree with the cause and I usually agree with most of them. Yours is certainly a worthy one.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Photos were not allowed. I graciously put away the camera.
It seems ridiculously ironic to me that a moron can take a deadly weapon into a store environment, but cameras are outlawed.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)Thanks for doing this.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I think they put the "100" threshhold in so people won't be harrassed by petitions like "tell my boyfriend he is a jerk" and other nonsense.
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,414 posts)to post about some study showing that cameras kill more people than guns
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)And cameras - THOSE are an issue!
Drives a sensible person !
geardaddy
(24,931 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Celebration
(15,812 posts)probably the Facebook page won't make any difference unless one of my daughters picks up on it.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)What could possibly go wrong?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)It is so "DUH!" I am smiling.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)I was number 100!
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I should be getting an email telling me what happens next....
I can't believe we got there so quickly! I love DU!
Canoe52
(2,948 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Buns_of_Fire
(17,181 posts)who thinks he's "preserving" some "right" by flaunting his firepower in inappropriate places "just because he can" -- ended at Newtown.
If it's "education" he's after, he might want to consider that people have also been educated to death with a baseball bat upside the head. Like you said, how are we to know he's just an "educator" and not ye-gods-yet-another psycho preparing to see if he can outdo Columbine or Aurora or Newtown?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I really appreciate the support! Newtown -
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)How do you tell the difference between someone trying to 'educate people' and someone trying to 'eradicate people'?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)And that is a very witty/clever way of making the point!
hooverville29
(163 posts)nm
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)datasuspect
(26,591 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Can be purchased for pennies per store.
billh58
(6,635 posts)thanks for the initiative...
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)shot in their store. Seems like the fear of lawsuits would cause them to ban weapons.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I had another talk with them after this post. I don't think their management team is getting it yet...
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Thank you for doing this IdaBriggs.
I love your OP too.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Wow - seriously, thank you for the nice compliments!
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Frankly.
Okay. ..your name's not Frank....
mamayo
(25 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)yellerpup
(12,253 posts)I signed!
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)ThingsGottaChange
(1,200 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)LoveMyCali
(2,015 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Many thanks!
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Check out the Dallas Morning News the day following Father's Day. Her step-grandfather delivered the fatal blow the night before. He then committed suicide.
My brother never really recovered. he died in 2004 of alcoholism.
Bryn
(3,621 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)That is so cool! Do you have a lot of "followers"?
NEDem
(1,513 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)...is that it's insane this is even a question. That loser should've been arrested and thrown in jail without question.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I think the more comments they get, the better!
peacebird
(14,195 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)tencats
(567 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)crim son
(27,464 posts)Great letter. Thank you for taking action!
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Please let me know if it gets "shared" by others - I am curious!
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I don't want open carry at JC Penney's, and I *really* don't want it at my local grocery store! Common sense and practical have *got* to be a part of this discussion!
rurallib
(62,423 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)AmyDeLune
(1,846 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)Thank You for this OP
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)LukeFL
(594 posts)So much. You are speaking for me as a mother.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)And special appreciation for the compliment!!!
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I already spend much less time in shopping malls, thinking of them as dangerous places where you don't loiter. This would make me give them up completely.
Do the malls and stores GET that this is BAD for business??? makes ya wonder.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I don't know why a petition even had to be started, but apparently "common sense" costs more than a "penney" - get it?
I crack myself up!
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)out of a topic that's hard to get a laugh out of thanks. Sometimes you laugh to keep from crying.
Here's another -- me
"When I go shopping, I don't wanna be a Target."
Maybe we should come up with a bunch of these and send them to major retailers. They seem awfully stupid about this.
I wonder if they've ever done any surveys to see how many people feel afraid of violence in their stores and parking lots.
"In Home Depot I ONLY want to see staple guns."
Etc etc
JohnnyRingo
(18,636 posts)They were going about their business selling overpriced crap to people when they were unfairly thrust into this situation by some asshole who thought he had to prove something.
Now they've been put on the spot to take a stand that doesn't really involve them. I'm sure they don't want to offend either the far right or the far left on this, and just wish it blows over so they can go back to making money on casual accessories.
Why would any business want to tell half their customers on either side to stay away? JC Penneys didn't ask this guy to come in with an assault rifle and piss people off.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)in local retail establishments are a good idea. My father (rest his soul) would have been furious with this young idiot, but that is because he had respect (and taught us the same) for the "tool" - hunting rifles don't belong in malls. As one poster put it in my original thread, "there are no herds of deer wandering the mall!"
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Talk to their insurers. Talk to their employees. Last but not least, talk to their customers.
You cannot allow half your customers to intimidate and discourage the other half. The non-carrying people are not threatening the others with lethal weapons. It is a lopsided equation. Anytime you allow people to carry guns in a public place they are threatening others, if only by creating concern for accidents and crossfire. And with the memories of massacres fresh in everybody's minds...it's just the essence of stupid not to enforce a storewide no guns policy. DUH.
SmileyRose
(4,854 posts)thank you
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)Good work!
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)donheld
(21,311 posts)Not at the Original Poster, but at anybody who doesn't see this as a no brainer. Do we really want to shop with people armed with semi-automatic weaponry?
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Smilo
(1,944 posts)there were only 256 sigs, yet this post had 6000+ views.
Signed and K&R.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)DU is being fantastic. I am still stunned we made it over a hundred!
UtahLib
(3,179 posts)Even though I live far from that particular JC Penney store, I am embarassed, dismayed and disgusted that this took place in my state.
Thank you
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)sure they are outnumbered by SANE people!
orleans
(34,056 posts)if they can't make a store policy to not allow this kind of crap to go on who the fuck needs to shop there? not me!
thank you for a wonderfully written post.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)lamp_shade
(14,836 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,236 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)littlemissmartypants
(22,691 posts)One of the reasons I love DU is actions like this taken on the behalf of others. However, I must say that I was surprised to see this post had over 6K views and the petition still needs 224 signatures.
The carrier of the weapon appears to be exhibiting a lack of true capacity to think as a part of the citizen collective in a rational manner. Anyone who will carry a firearm blatantly through a retail venue is not being sensitive to the broad variety of definitions of safety. I have signed this petition to express my ability to act rationally and with benevolence for the citizen collective and on behalf of the misguided emotionally unavailable man who carried the gun.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Maineman
(854 posts)The NRA wants only one thing: more guns and more ammunition SOLD.
They say current laws should be enforced, but block funding for the ATF.
They say we should screen out bad guys and mentally unstable people from owning guns, but they oppose background checks for nearly half of the gun sales.
They say an armed populace protects liberty, but they lie, mislead, and display and encourage fear and hostility. An informed and engaged populace is what protects liberty, not hostile, threatening gun carrying thugs.
When an angry gun toting individual or group tells an elected official that they are watching how he or she votes, that sounds extremely close to meeting the legal definition of assault.
The NRA is not an honorable or credible organization.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)vduhr
(603 posts)I'm seeing more and more problems with people who claim to be responsible gun owners, yet they are the ones who are shouting the loudest about government conspiracies to take their guns away. I just read a news article about a raid here in the town where I live, where a gun dealer, who was supposed to be ligit, had been under investigation by the ATF, and they raided his home and found 1,500 guns, many that had the serial numbers missing. 90% of the comments below the article were claiming a government conspiracy and defending the guy. I'm beginning to be afraid of these so-called "responsible" gun owners because they are so convinced and afraid they might lose their guns, I fear they just might shoot first, then ask questions later.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)But why are you objecting to Open Carry and not Concealed Carry? I would much rather see the potential danger and make decisions based on that, than have to wonder how many Zimmermans may be out there, just waiting for an opportunity to be a hero or an asshole
Better the devil you see, than the one who sneaks up on you.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Concealed carry people have to go through background checks and training. I won't lie and say I am happy about it, but I don't see the average concealed carry person as the same threat level as the guy who can fire off 30 bullets in a matter of seconds.
Plus, if I can't *see* the problem, I can't treat them *differently* than any other shopper, and I would not expect my children to be hustled out of the store because they are shopping there, too.
Also, JC Penney's can make the decision to ban "all guns" or just the ones they see; if they are sensible, they will put up a sign banning "all guns" and the *discrete* concealed carry person will never be an issue, but if someone *is* a problem, then JC Penney can sue them for violating store policy.
That is what I would do, if I were JC Penney.
ON EDIT: But at this point in time, I am simply asking for "open carry" to be banned in their stores. This is all part of a bigger discussion, and this is a stance I feel is *very* reasonable/I am *NOT* willing to budge on - No Open Carry in Retail Establishments.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I would extend that to any public place not designated for such use. However, I think your take on Concealed Carry is somewhat disingenuous regarding "background checks and training". Firstly, there are very few jurisdictions that conduct background checks when issuing Concealed Carry Permits and training varies from a few hours to nothing. Many states or "shall issue", which means if you want one you get one, no questions asked.
I dislike the idea of untrained, under qualified, unvetted individuals carrying concealed loaded semi-automatic handguns, which can be just as deadly as an AR-15. Personally, I would rather be able to see it and know what I'm dealing with. At least I would have the option of avoiding them.
This is the whole reason why concealed weapons have become ubiquitous over the last few years, nobody noticed.
SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)SkyDaddy7
(6,045 posts)Taking the time to set it up & alert the rest of us!!
Take care.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)This is great!! I'm getting the real names of DUmmies in order to compile more dossiers. What I do with their private information is my business.
Jim Neighbors WEAVERVEGAS, NC about 1 hour ago Liked 1
I am scared of my own shadow and other things I don't fully understand. Freedom is for those too weak not to let the gov't see after your every need. I'm a liberal.
Does he think I give a flying fuk if he knows I signed a petition. Hm-mm not to neighborly.
edited to add: I live in North Carolina, maybe I should drop him a line and invite him for a beer.
He shouldn't be too hard to find.
They also have a facebook page, sooo MR Neighbors I think I will post on it inviting you out for a shot of moonshine and a beer.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Weaver-Vegas
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)They really are pathetic.
Jim Neighbors WEAVERVEGAS, NC about 3 hours ago Like 0
That's it!! either JCP changes their policy of Ida's kids get it right between the eyes.
And they wonder why Not Crazy people think they are NUTS!
GoneOffShore
(17,340 posts)An armed society is not a civil society.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Ivywoods55
(131 posts)I just signed it and then I felt so good, as if I had done something that I could be proud of. Thank you for this opportunity to do something worthwhile.