The day is coming when a device will be available to explode ammunition remotely in your 30 rd

[pkdu]

Magazine.

It's already here for IEDs at a distance , research stage right now , but not far off DOD deployment ...then a matter of time before my gizmo can explode your 50 cal magazine in your cammo pants...thoughts on your second amendment rights at THAT point?

[MadHound]

1. My question, why do you sound like you are salivating for this to become reality.

You're sounding as bloodthirsty as those you oppose, perhaps more so.

[pkdu]

4. Hmmm, salivating , bloodthirsty ,oppose and "more so" . Four strong words/phrases.

I'm posing a real question that is likely to face the "right to bear arms" viewpoint , why thse four words and phrases?

[MadHound]

6. Because I find them to be apt phrases,

So again, why do you sound as though you are salivating for this to become reality?

[pkdu]

7. I posted less 100 words. Please tell me which ones evoked those 4 phrases in your mind. Then

I will respond to exactly those.

[MadHound]

10. All of them.

Now then, why do you seem to be salivating for this to become reality?

[pkdu]

14. I'll answer you , right after you respond with non- bullshit.

..but my expectations are low.

[MadHound]

15. You asked the question, I answered. It is one way of saying "the whole tenor of your post".

That isn't bullshit, it is the entirety of your post.

Now then, why are you sounding like you are salivating for this to become reality?

[krispos42]

2. So I can legally shoot anybody trying to point this device at me?

Excellent.


Or, I can sue them if I'm hurt from the shrapnel of a gun exploding nearby?

[pkdu]

5. I'm asking you. What's your view of 2a under that circumstance.really shoot all that make u nervous?

[defacto7]

3. Sounds like an excellent deterrent to me.

If you want to carry said magazine, you accept the possible consequences.

[kelly1mm]

23. I am sure the LEO's that have to carry 'said magazine' will thank you for your

concern. Can you think of the damage inflicted on LEO's if someone were able to pack one of these devices in a cargo van and drive around NYC? The test generator had a range of 65 ft so you could basically sweep a street (both sides) of all LEO's just by driving down the middle of the road.

[Xithras]

85. Can you imagine the fun on the 4th of July?

Pull up to a fireworks booth, flip a switch, and BOOM. Pity the poor 6 year old with a firecracker in his pocket. Fireworks, after all, use gunpowder just like bullets do.

And it's really just a matter of time until some civilian gets his hands on one and reverse engineers it. Once that happens, anyone with a few community college EE classes can build one. It'll be pretty awesome when the LEO's kick down the door of some criminals house during a raid and the officers weapons all explode

And can you imagine one of these on the battlefield? Talk about your "disruptive technologies"!

Luckily, of course, I paid attention in my physics classes, and I understand that it's not actually possible to build a device like this.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

87. If it would work for 30 round why wouldn't it work for just 1?

[Union Scribe]

8. Is it Random Disjointed Gun Thought Day and no one told me?

Or, "lol wut?"

[pkdu]

9. That's every day in the Gungeon ...please proceed Mr Gungeoneer! Nt

[Union Scribe]

12. Oh good, now disjointed thoughts about me.

Little Friday night celebration going on there?

[apocalypsehow]

101. That one's expressed his disdain for DU's progressive values quite often, including this whiny

"GBCDU" post that he later had to self-delete when it became obvious that his vow to never post here again was not going to be fulfilled by the one doing the so-promising:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240104600

When called on this later in Meta, all he could do was about how unfair it all was that people should hold him to his stated word, or expect him not to post pro-NRA talking points on Democratic Underground.

[Brother Buzz]

11. I am due beer and travel money

[Union Scribe]

13. (and many experiences) nt

[slackmaster]

44. Yeah, me too

[Canuckistanian]

100. hahahaha

What was his name again?

[Brother Buzz]

102. Random Thought

A wonderfully disjointed individual.

[Buzz Clik]

71. I should have read your post immediately after reading the OP. It would have saved time.

The OP is ... well ... damn.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. My thoughts on "my" Second Amendment are not going to changed by disjointed posts on a message board

Put THAT in your hookah/bong/pipe and smoke it.

[pkdu]

18. I have never Hookahed , Bonged , piped , smoked , anything but YOU can infer what ever you like .

How very progressive.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. You might want to check on that

There are some basic physics to overcome

[pkdu]

19. You apparently haven't ...try it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

33. I have...and it does not look like it will impact small arms in the least

Which is why I brought up the basic physics issue.

It is going after the detonators for IEDs. Very different

[napoleon_in_rags]

21. Apparently it uses EM resonance frequencies.

Like the opera note that breaks the wine glass, but with radio.

It would be interesting to experiment with this idea. Not with IED's of course, but rather with some bullet primers. Is there a loud audio frequency you can find that will detonate them? A radio frequency?

edit: link
http://www.gizmag.com/exploding-ieds-remotely-using-electromagnetic-energy/17893/

And after thought: how would it get through the ground that buries the IED? Or the shielding of a magazine? I think I'm still a bit skeptical too.

[sarisataka]

24. Hint

it targets electrically fired detonators...

[defacto7]

26. It's probably similar to the device I built that

explodes car stereo speakers within a block if they are pushing more than a certain wattage. No more Boom, Boom.

[Recursion]

46. The magazine is itself a shield. It's a Faraday cage. Electrical field must be isotropically zero...

... at the surface, and gradient lines must be normal to the surface at all points. A good place to start is here:



Which I also have tattooed on my arm, for quick reference.

(Interestingly, Special Relativity falls out of those equations as a direct consequence, it just took Einstein to see that.)

[shadowrider]

55. You could tell me

that's secret code for grandma's bread and I still wouldn't understand it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

89. I swear it's

the pattern from my bathroom wallpaper.

I hate my bathroom.

[oldhippie]

62. I don't have tattoos, but ...

.... I have a Tee shirt with those equations, vector form on the front and the Integral form on the back. I get lots of strange looks but some smiles of recognition.

[Recursion]

66. I use the D-B-E-H differential version so I don't have all the epsilons and mus

Interesting trivia: Maxwell invented none of those, and didn't list them together at any point in his Treatise.

[napoleon_in_rags]

120. Aha! You've outed yourself Mr. Jono!

I see your tattoos on this page here:

http://talklikeaphysicist.com/2009/tuesday-physics-tattoo-jonos-maxwells-equations/

Surely this is not a common tattoo.... Right? Right?

[Recursion]

121. Well that means there are at least two of us!

Mine are in a ring around my left bicep. I think I'm in a book of science tattoos somewhere, though.

[napoleon_in_rags]

122. Oh darn. Worth a guess. Cool tat though.

I always liked the Euler's identity tats. With my luck though, whatever I got tattooed would be proven wrong the next week!

[jberryhill]

126. I have the Fermat's original proof of his last theorem

...but it was almost too big to fit where I had it done.

[baldguy]

125. And what about magazines made out of plastic?

[Coyote_Tan]

37. He may have gotten mixed up between that and a Doctor Who episode...

Sontarans I believe it was...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. I hate it when that happens

[GaYellowDawg]

20. I think that'd be wonderful at schools, theaters, and other public places

The idea of someone's ammunition exploding as they approached a school to shoot students and grievously wounding them in the process is great, as far as I'm concerned. The second that someone decides to harm kids, I don't give a damn what happens to them - they have abrogated any rights or considerations as a human being as far as I'm concerned.

But I would want prominent signs up to warn those who carry legally and for self-defense.

[defacto7]

27. It wreaks with choices and responsibility for all.

[pinboy3niner]

22. Not likely

I'm seeing slow-, medium- and high-speed car chases on my local news every night--even though we already have the technology to shut down a car's engine remotely. What's up with that?

[kelly1mm]

25. Sounds like a good way to clear a street of LEO's before one's buddies come up after

and attack a target. Seriously though, how would you suggest that this could be made safe for LEO's?

[Deep13]

29. Cops won't need guns anymore. nt

[kelly1mm]

30. And how would you suggest they respond to a bat/knife/chain wielding perp or, better

yet, group of perps?

[stevenleser]

49. I'm guessing the discussion is headed toward DEWs

Directed Energy Weapons, all of which have been promised for several decades now and we have yet to see hand held lasers, masers, phasers or photons weapons.

[Deep13]

64. Greater numbers, batons, pepper spray, taser or...

...or they can rely on their police training to de-escalate the situation by talking.

[Deep13]

28. Well, to avoid that premature explosion, ...

...one should just think about baseball.

[graham4anything]

31. you know, I want guns banned from the street, legal and illegal, using the above example

if we could get a new law suggesting guns can remain ONLY in a private home
but not on the street or in the street or in other places accessed from a street
(so that home means that specific home and the property lines only of that home

so collectors can hang em on the wall
hunters can use them from their back yard or use a bow and arrow
go to shooting ranges and borrow theirs

and only federal state and local authority has permission to have a gun on a street during their shifts only




then, the above scenerio in OP well-that is the answer to the gunnies when they ask
how does that prevent the person who brings a gun into a street

all it takes is some new technology and a little bit of luck.
and it would all be legal.
and even easier if guns can be reclassified as a wmd


and also mix in my suggestion the other day of the SuperPac Bloomberg and others have,
to ourright buy up every single gun store, gun dealer, and manuracturer of bullets
and then sell those off to the US military or have one big super duper 4th of july fire works display

(and the superpac can buy the people's buisness, then provide something for each piece of land nationwide, so that all those workers don't lose their jobs.
John's Gun Store can now be John's NY real pizza owned by Bloomie.
and make it with great ingredients and not too much fat. AND no 48 ounce sodas.

things do get a little easier once you understand as the 60s curio went.

[Union Scribe]

50. I'm sorry, this thread already has its quota of

incoherent rambling. Please hang up and dial again.

[graham4anything]

52. sorry the operator just said 40cents more for the next 3 minutes, and I deposited it.

with apologies to Sylvia's mother.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

90. A law that "suggests"?!?!

[NickB79]

32. You apparently don't realize how IED's work

They typically use a radio transmitter rigged to the detonator to receive an incoming call from a cellphone when the spotter sees a targeted vehicle enter the killzone. The IED killer technology you mentioned can identify the frequency used and remotely detonate the bomb before the insurgent spotter can.

Last time I checked, there weren't many 30-rd magazines that incorporated radio-controlled bullets in them

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Sssssh, don't confuse them with facts and science

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. They all work one way? I thought the "I" stood for "Improvised".

[Posteritatis]

35. I'm reasonably confident reality doesn't work that way. (nt)

[GreenStormCloud]

36. The cartridge in the chamber is completely shielded by solid metal.

Magazines are made of metal and completely shield the cartridges. Back to the drawing board with your dream.

[Posteritatis]

39. Not that a pile of gunpowder sitting out in the open could be set off by radio, either. (nt)

[Recursion]

47. A laser could conceivably do it; that's a kind of radio transmission

Admittedly a very very specialized kind.

[Posteritatis]

80. That's like saying "the IR signal emitted from a lit match could do it." (nt)

[Recursion]

82. Which is also in the least useful sense "true" (nt)

[Recursion]

48. Poor Mr. Faraday... forgotten again

[Recursion]

40. Are you familiar with a Faraday cage?

Guess what a metal magazine is.

[jmowreader]

106. Guess what a round of ammunition is?

All this "the mag is a Faraday cage" talk is true, but it ignores the metal the ammunition itself is made from.

I was thinkin, 'well, why not just make a device that would heat up the round until it cooked off?" until I remembered such a device would also be thwarted by the metal the ammo is made from. You would be better off inventing a death ray that turned the shooter into 170 pounds of cooked meat.

[Recursion]

107. That's a good point too

Poor Faraday. He didn't have the Calculus, and Maxwell ate his lunch. There's a Tesla/Edison analogy there, somewhere.

[oldhippie]

42. As an Old Crow kind of guy, and .....

... having worked on testing counter IED technology in my last few years at work, I can tell you that you are fantasizing. Also, such devices are easily defeated with relatively simple ECM. The emissions from such devices can be detected, located, and interdicted in almost real time.

Dream on.

[Recursion]

45. Old Crows

For years I would pass by the Braddock Road metro and wonder what the hell the "Association of Old Crows" was, until I met some people in signals. You guys sure are secretive, which I guess is the point...

[oldhippie]

61. Yes they are ....

... but not as bad as some others. For awhile back in the early 80's I was with No Such Agency. They are REALLY tight lipped. My military 201 (personnel file) has my assignment for those years listed as "Detailed." My orders for that assignment had me report to a Post Office Box in the World Post Office at LAX. I had a hell of a time finding someone to report to.

[GreenStormCloud]

92. I assume this patch would have meaning to you.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&newwindow=1&tbo=d&biw=1344&bih=669&tbm=isch&tbnid=ESGxMdc81WmjRM:&imgrefurl=http://www.flyingtigerssurplus.com/military-intelligence-patches.html%3Fpage%3D4&docid=H0Hwg6TWYSgrPM&imgurl=

And the phrase "Old Crow and White Lightning"?

[oldhippie]

93. Yep, worked with those guys ....

.... '72 - '76 in WestPac and SEA at a number of their facilities with lots of antennas and an elephant cage.

Being a ham operator for 50+ years now, I run into a lot of the old morse intercept guys.

[GreenStormCloud]

94. I was an R-390 & R-390A repairman.

April 1965 to May 1966, 3rd Radio Research Unit, Davis Station, Tan Son Nhut, RVN. Being a ditty bop was a high stress job for those guys. I was glad that I flunked the test on the ability to learn Morse.

[oldhippie]

95. I was OIC of ....

... a small group that did field engineering and troubleshooting of the links and systems at the stations when the local folks ran out of options and ideas. We were mostly based out of Taipei under a number of different cover units, but worked all of WestPac and EastAsia. I loved that job, but alas, I got promoted and had to come back Stateside in '76.

[slackmaster]

43. That's a fine authoritarian wet dream you have there

[SayWut]

51. Personal injury lawyers are salivating already.

[Incitatus]

53. It's a good thing I don't walk around with a 50 cal magazine in my pants then, eh? nt

[theKed]

75. I only have the metaphorical kind

if you know what I mean.

[Buzz Clik]

54. What is the point of this thread? I am quite serious and would like to hear from pkdu.

[dairydog91]

65. He's demonstrating that humanity will never reach Peak Stupid?

We might run out of fuel one day, but dumb is forever.

[Motown_Johnny]

56. IEDs have a detonator

The idea that a device will be able to explode gunpowder inside a cartridge, inside a magazine, at a distance is one hell of a leap.

[EastKYLiberal]

57. The more we have to hear from gun nuts, the more I want their world to crash and burn around them...

Anything to wipe their smug, fucking self-entitled smirks off the faces attached to their empty heads is fine by me.

[slackmaster]

60. Paging Lauren Bacall...

[apocalypsehow]

104. Except, being liberal doesn't mean we accept ugly right-wing memes or those who spout them.

Pardon me: I should really remove the pronoun "we" from any discussion with you that talks about liberals or progressives, as by your own admission you are a "moderate" which really means...well, we know what it means. You are a "moderate" who just happens to buy into and re-post on DU every single right-wing meme the NRA has current, and are proud of it. There's another name for someone of the political persuasion, actually. It isn't "liberal."

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. This post is wonderfully violent.

Nicely done!

[99Forever]

58. Ut oh!

You seemed to have sent the Delicate Flower Brigade into a hissy fit!


They get all bent out of shape when someone even suggests that there might be a limit on their obsession with toting their *The Precious* with them every where they go.

Bwaaaaaa hahahahahahahahah!

[rl6214]

103. Juvenile post of the day?

[99Forever]

109. Not even close.

There are quite literally hundreds of completely ridiculous "juvenile" posts on this board by Delicate Flowers, each and every day.

[rl6214]

117. There ya go, here's another one.

[Marengo]

110. What do you think of the concept as described by the OP?

[99Forever]

112. Sounds like some very...

... poetic justice to me. Whether it's actually feasible or not, is above my pay grade.

[Marengo]

114. Justice? For what?

[99Forever]

115. I guess you want to play "let's pretend," huh?

Like ...

"Let's pretend that Delicate Flowers walking in public places are in so very much danger that they simply *must* have their *The Precious* at all times close at hand, to fend off the roving bands of hostel attackers ready to pounce on them at any moment."

[Marengo]

118. And I am guessing you are incapable of answering a simple question?

In many localities it is entirely legal to carry a firearm concealed. How is exploding a magazine carried on their person, which is beyond the capabilities of the technology in question at any rate, a form of "justice" if no crime is committed?

[99Forever]

119. Save the NRA talking points for the Delicate Flowers.

I'm not interested. I have no sympathy for anyone that thinks it's okay to walk around in public with a deadly weapon, concealed or open carry, legal or not, should what they are shopping for, befall them. Should there be that technology at some point, I'm perfectly okay with it being used to PROTECT sane people from Delicate Flowers. Frankly, I don't give a shit if you don't like it.

[Marengo]

123. What are they "shopping" for?

No sympathy to the point where you are perfectly okay with a device which would cause the magazine to explode potentially injuring the carrier, licensed by the state, who is engaging in a legal activity?

That's not sane, no matter how you characterize sanity.

How do you envision it would be utilized, on random people walking on the street?

[99Forever]

124. Have a nice day.

[Marengo]

128. As I expected...

[pkdu]

111. ...and still Hissing and Fitting today...even to the point of getting pizza-ed like jay fox below.

They seem to know that even if they can fight off laws with the 2A militia bullshit , science and innovation will overrun their stockpiling eventually.

[99Forever]

113. The Delicate Flower Brigade is coming to...

.. the inevitable conclusion that their reign of terror on the sane members of society is headed the way of the dinosaurs. And like dinosaurs, they scream the loudest as the end goes closer. I think it's a hoot.

[raidert05]

59. This place is...

Awesome I find more interesting stuff here to read than any other place...

[dairydog91]

63. Yeah. It's called a nuke.

Or, for that matter, any weapon which generates a sufficient thermal pulse to ignite the gunpowder.

It's already here for IEDs at a distance , research stage right now , but not far off DOD deployment

LOL. IED's are often electronically triggered, hence techies can jam the trigger frequency, send a copycat signal to detonate the IED, etc. Nothing like the chemical primers in ammunition.

[MineralMan]

67. I call bullshit on this.

Thinking about modern ammunition, I cannot think of any remote device that could be made that would detonate the powder in any such cartridge. In fact, I cannot think of any way one might do that.

So, what you propose is not possible, as far as I can tell. A pipe dream, perhaps, but bullshit, nevertheless.

[Buzz Clik]

69. Neutrino wave guide amplification modulators.

This is a big secret that is being harbored deep in the Pentagon.

Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[MineralMan]

72. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that.

[Buzz Clik]

74. Don't thank me. We're here for each other.

[MineralMan]

76. Cool hat, bro...

[Left2Tackle]

68. Someone will come up with a countermeasure.

But that's not the point. Take a look at Afghanistan. We have superior weapons by far, alot of good it does against a populous with the belief that they must defend themselves against us.

It's not that the second amendment gives us the right to own a handgun, rifle or sword that makes it important. It's what the meaning behind that right represents. If we want to keep our rights and our Constitution we need to defend them. Against anyone and with whatever means available.

[99Forever]

73. Ahhh yes.

So you are going to "defend your rights" with your peashooter "private arsenal" against who, exactly?

Welcome to DU, enjoy your visit.

[nick of time]

77. My thoughts exactly

but the jury let it stand 5-1.

[Left2Tackle]

96. The who doesn't matter.

We each have the right to defend ourselves and our property against anyone. How effective we will be will vary quite a bit. The OP posed how would a hypothetical military weapon effect 2A rights. And it wouldn't do anything to them. That was all I was trying to say.

And thank you, I'm learning alot and enjoying the discussions.

[mokawanis]

99. The who matters a great deal

I wouldn't want you to suffer dire consequences because you chose to fight a far superior opponent who happened to have the law on their side.

I'm glad you're learning and enjoying. You shoulda joined in the discussions when you joined 3 years ago, cuz they're so much fun.

[Posteritatis]

81. They'd have to come up with the measure, first; the OP's hypothetical is absurd. (nt)

[2on2u]

78. The day will be coming when people will wrap their rifles in tin foil as well as their

heads. Similar idea, different approach.... or not.

[Fla_Democrat]

79. Ok, so make 32 round magazines and it will be completely flummexed.

Will it count each individual round, and add 1 for in the chamber?

[JVS]

83. There are always such new and exciting ways of not understanding how guns work in this forum.

[Recursion]

108. ^ That

Heh

[Initech]

84. Paranoid much??

[Riftaxe]

86. I am sure that my phaser made by the same manufacturer

will be immune...

Perhaps it is time you stopped staring at your Harry Potter posters and went outside for some fresh air.

[GoneOffShore]

88. Cool story bro.

[GreenStormCloud]

91. In 1967 I read a sci-fi story about such a device.

In the story the Americans were stalemated in a war with the Russian when a GI got the idea. He persuaded the brass to let him build it and give it a try. It worked, the American troops were outfitted with swords and crossbows, while a plane flew over the lines radiating the field, exploding all the Russian ordinance. The inventor was overjoyed until it was explained to him what it would mean in the next war when some enemy would also have the device. Modern war would be back to middle ages equipment. The casualty figures of some ancient battles dwarf most modern battles.

[rl6214]

98. Aren't they able to do this because of the electronics in an IED?

There are no electronics in a bullet.

[Dash87]

105. Will we finally get light sabers now?

[randome]

116. Here you go. Start building it.

[madrchsod]

127. this post is silly.........