General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThough he is rarely mentioned, I think Colin Powell has a share of the blame for the Iraq War.
Living here in East Texas, I don't find many folks who share my "take" on most subjects involving politics. Thus it was that during discussions with my pals (read, arguments), with regard to precipitating a war with Iraq, I was alone in the opinion that we must not rush into a war based upon the purported "real" evidence.
I took a bit of "heat" with that position. I was and am comfortable with holding divergent views from my fellow Texans so long as those polemic discussions don't cause a rift in an otherwise good relationship. So it was that I conceded to hold my final decision in abeyance until I had the benefit of watching Colin Powell reveal the Bush Administrations "proof" before the United Nations assembly. You see, Colin Powell was the only member of that administration in whom I had any confidence at all. I felt that he wouldn't "roll over" merely to substantiate deliberate aggression. With his approval of the decision for war, I reluctantly conceded that war was inevitable.
Of course, in the days immediately following the initial strike of war, the "wind from Denmark" became particularly odorous as real evidence of the situation became available. Yet, every shred of actual evidence was ignored by the perpetrators of this trumped-up war. I was beginning to regret having confidence in Powell, seeing that the one fellow in whom I had confidence had "feet of clay."
During the years following the commencement of war against Iraq, I watched interviews in which Powell revealed what I considered to be arrogance in dealing with questions concerning the war decision. Later, I heard him declare that he thought that the war was necessary. I can't believe that a reasonable man would continue to hold an opinion that was proved false.
Anyway, it is my opinion that whenever condemnation is accorded to the authors of war in Iraq ~ Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, et al, ~ Colin Powell's name should be prominently mentioned.
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)Take a look at Powell during his speech at the UN. Who is sitting right behind him? Who vetted the speech?
Javaman
(62,530 posts)He carried water for george w. moron* and has been on the longest apology tour since.
No matter what people say, I will never ever forgive him nor trust him.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)traitor to his country and (like Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld) a mass murder.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Another non-hero who acts like he deserves respect instead of a jail sentence.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Iran Contra and the Vietnam war
Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference Mỹ Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report, Powell wrote, "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal Division[34] soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Powell's handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as "whitewashing" the atrocities of Mỹ Lai.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
Walk away
(9,494 posts)Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)Henry Gonzales had impeachment papers written up on both Reagan and Bush Sr. They should have went forward.
Franker65
(299 posts)They made a fool out of him at the UN. As a former general, he should have realised the implications of his actions.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)SomeGuyInEagan
(1,515 posts)Powell should be in prison - one of many - but one of the few who actually could have done something by getting up in front of the U.N. and denouncing the White House, quitting and walking away. I recall reading a Time or Newsweek piece from the time, quoting a Powell staffer who said before the speech Powell was ranting in the office about what BS he was being told to say to the U.N.
He knew. He is guilty of treason and war crimes.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)a traitor and a war criminal for eternity.
marybourg
(12,631 posts)word "KI'-bitz" which means a kidding commentary.
DinahMoeHum
(21,789 posts). . .before agreeing to do what he did in front of the UN.
I call him "General Three-Fifths-Of-A-Man" for that reason.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)shamed wherever he goes for the rest of his life. Disgusting pos.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)never be "misled" so easily.
Not sure I get your "General Three-Fifths-Of-A-Man". Meaning he isn't half the man he used to be? Pardon me for being dense, long day.
And then there was My Lai...
Whisp
(24,096 posts)He most definitely is not a good man.
A good person cares about lies that kill thousands, tens of thousands and doesn't go along with them. He knew. The rotten turd knew.
fuck Powell, the scum.
polly7
(20,582 posts)"Colin Powell, on a visit to Egypt, says that Saddam Hussein "has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."
http://www.motherjones.com/bush_war_timeline
samplegirl
(11,479 posts)or should of came forward and blew the whistle!
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)The rest -- Cheney, Rice, Miller, et al., are so despicable as to continue to pretend they were right.
jamesatemple
(342 posts)Could you provide a link, please? Even that admission wouldn't change my mind about him. How does one apologize for starting a war? But any evidence of his displaying a bit of humility and/or contriteness is unimaginable to me.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)He did not apologize for starting a war or cop to any disingenuousness. He pins the situation on "bad intelligence" and regrets the American people were given the wrong information. Which is not the whole story by a long shot, but which is also miles beyond anything Cheney, et al, who still swear there was proof of a connection between Saddam and 9/11 have said.
You are being a little over-harsh in protesting that you can't imagine Powell showing any "humility and/or contriteness" though. He did and he has.
When asked if he feels it has tarnished his reputation, he said, "Of course it will. It's a blot. I'm the one who presented it on behalf of the United States to the world, and [it] will always be a part of my record. It was painful. It's painful now."
He doesn't blame former CIA Director George Tenet for the misleading information he says he pored over for days before delivering his speech; he faults the intelligence system.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Politics/story?id=1105979&page=1
jamesatemple
(342 posts)I can form a better opinion of Powell as a result of your input.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)at the same time the FBI knew Dr. Stephen Hatfill Dr. Bruce Ivins was the person responsible.
Botany
(70,508 posts)He did not have access to make the anthrax weaponized I think if you dig deep enough
you will find Cheney and others were behind the attacks.
Ivans was IDed as a suspect long after Cheney's talk in front of the UN but by DNA we had
already identified the source of the Anthrax as the US Army' base @ Ft. Detrick, MD.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)And I think Hatfill was investigated because he had lived in Zimbabwe.
Ever hear of Project Coast?
http://www.tucradio.org/091028AnthraxTWO.mp3
Botany
(70,508 posts)Blaming Iraq for anthrax when the bush administration knew that the anthrax that was used in the
attacks on reporters, the capital, and the National Enquirer was from Ft. Dettrick, MD army base.
I don't know if Powell knew this when he went in front of the UN but bush, Cheney, & Rummy sure did.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)Raffi Ella
(4,465 posts)I too trusted Colin Powell back then. Like you, if he said it then I believed it. At the time I was very naive, it was before I found DU, before I really knew anything about politics but I was interested and paying attention. Colin Powell was a big part of my belief at the time that war with Iraq was necessary.
It took me a long time to forgive myself and accept how very wrong I was. If I can do it then Colin Powell certainly can.
John2
(2,730 posts)was duped just like everybodyelse by the Bush Administration and is paying for it. He doesn't carry water for them anymore like Condi Rice is. He has even been very critical of the neocons. I think you have to thouroughly read Powell's biography before you make any judgments about his character. He had been a career soldier all his life and one of his strongest traits was being a loyal soldier. He has been loyal to the Republican Party because it was Ronald Reagon that gave him his first opportunity to rise through the ranks. I think that is what Powell is dealing with, so it is hard for him to break that loyality to those that gave him his first opportunity. I think he is evolving though after voting for a Democratic President for the first time. I really do believe Powell trusted the Bush Administration but they used him.
calimary
(81,267 posts)The night before or the day before he was supposed to go to the UN, he got pissed off and didn't want to do it, said it was bullshit, and made a stink, and said "I'm not gonna read that!"
Buuuuuuuuutttt - sure enough, the next day, there he is, at the UN, spouting all these lies so convincingly. Even my husband, who had tremendous respect for the guy, was one of many who said - "well... if colin powell says so, then I guess it must be true." At the time I remember seeing reports about cheney telling powell to do it because powell could afford to lose a few points in his public opinion ratings.
INFURIATING!!!!! And I'm sorry. If powell knew it was bullshit, and said so, and complained and balked, AND THEN CAVED, then he's as guilty as the rest of 'em. He could have said no. He could have refused. He could have - and SHOULD have - resigned. That would have gotten people's attention and MAYBE caused enough of the public to have second thoughts that we could have forestalled the damn war.
He's just as guilty. He was uniquely positioned to be able to mount a meaningful objection, using that clout that cheney looked at, hungrily, and decided deliberately and ruthlessly to exploit. colin powell should be held FULLY responsible and accountable, and if it means a war crimes tribunal for him, too, then so be it. He could have stopped this. He could have avoided this messy position he's in now. He had it in the palm of his hand. And he threw it away in order to get in bed with fucking Lucifer.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)Some have given him (Powell) a pass because he expressed "regret" later on. NOT ME!
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)Just another who opens his mouth and lies spew.
Johonny
(20,851 posts)but because he alone of that administration caught most of the blame of the GOP voters. They still love Cheney, Rice, W, Rumsfeld, but because Powell is black and left the administration early they will dump on him. When the GOP dumps you under the bus democrats tend to ignore the negatives of a person. See Chuck Hagel the latest under the bus GOPer that suddenly is loved more because they hate him than because democrats actually care about Hagel's politics.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)A war criminal.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...is a mystery to me.
He was a key person responsible for the My Lai coverup during the Vietnam War.
A leopard does not change its spots. Sure, it appears he resisted some elements of the UN speech at first. But ultimately he delivered the message the GWB administration wanted delivered.
He was no patsy and he was not duped. He decided based on how it would affect his career. If he were a person of integrity, once he realized they were trying to get him to go in front of the UN and spew evil nonsense, he could have done what others have done in similar situations: he could have told them to find someone else to do their dirty work, and resigned on the spot.
rdharma
(6,057 posts)"He decided based on how it would affect his career."
Spot on!
I'm not giving Powell ...... (or any of the Democratic legislators who voted for the war)...... a pass!
FiggyJay
(55 posts)I too thought that Powell was a good and decent man. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw him back up the Bush thugs. I really don't know how he can look himself in the mirror. Dubya and the others are sociopaths, so they don't care about the dead that they left in their wake. But Powell seemed so trustworthy and caring. I hope I live long enough to see them all in a tiny little jail cell.
Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)He goes on the war criminal roster.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)William769
(55,147 posts)OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)....provide some balance to the conversation, here goes:
Angry Colin Powell wants answers on Iraq WMD lies
February 17, 2011
QUOTE:
Ex-secretary of state Colin Powell called on the CIA and Pentagon to explain how he was given unreliable information which proved key to the US case for invading Iraq, the Guardian reported Wednesday.
Powells landmark speech to the United Nations on February 5, 2003, cited intelligence about Iraq leader Saddam Husseins bioweapons programme gained from a defector, codenamed Curveball.
But he has now admitted that he lied to topple the dictator, in an interview with the Guardian.
It has been known for several years that the source called Curveball was totally unreliable, Powell told the British newspaper.
The question should be put to the CIA and the DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency) as to why this wasnt known before the false information was put into the (report) sent to Congress, the presidents state of the union address and my 5 February presentation to the UN.
.....plus....
New York Times Topics - Colin Powell
Feb 13, 2013
QUOTE:
Over the course of his career Mr. Powell became one of Americas most popular figures, representing to millions of people around the world the possibilities of the American dream. But Mr. Powell himself, as well as many opponents of the war in Iraq, consider that record tarnished by his service under President Bush, when he provided crucial support to the case that the threat of weapons of mass destruction justified the 2003 invasion.
....and....
Mr. Powell had a tumultuous tenure as President Bushs first-term secretary of state, when he was frequently undercut by Vice President Dick Cheney and Donald H. Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, in the period before the Iraq war. Although Mr. Powell had major misgivings about the war and what he considered the inadequate number of troops, he not only agreed to the invasion but also made the administrations case for war in a presentation to the United Nations Security Council in February 2003.
Much of what he said is now known to be based on false information provided by the Central Intelligence Agency, and Mr. Powells friends say he remains angry over the episode.
PufPuf23
(8,776 posts)I had TV then and watched it live.
Powell had to have known the exhibits were frauds, he is not a stupid man.
Powell served up a cartoon to the UN.
I liked Powell then and thought he had a chance 5to be the first black POTUS.
But then he had participated in the My Lai cover-up during Vietnam.
Powell is a war criminal and mass murderer.
Those that have the authority to prosecute are now complicit and the USA will rue the day that our leaders lies failed the People of our nation and the world.
Look at what is happening to the Pope now and how long it took the blowback to bring justice to Axis leaders.
dem in texas
(2,674 posts)Yes, I was in the same boat, against the invasion of Iraq, arguing with my family and friends about the Iraq war being all wrong. I too thought that Powell was the only one that could be trusted in the Bush administration and fell for his United Nations presentation hook, line and sinker. All I can say now is if the did believe what he said, then he is not as smart as I though he was. So he was either lying or stupid and belongs on the junk pile of history.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)All of them called it "a slam dunk".
It didn't convince our major allies AT ALL.
The media were flabbergasted that France and Germany said it was a load of crap and said they would veto any invasion.
just1voice
(1,362 posts)This report contains 237 claims for specific misleading statements made by:
* Colin Powell
* Donald Rumsfeld
* Condoleezza Rice
* George W. Bush
* Dick Cheney
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)bullshit to make you shit your pants.
dembotoz
(16,805 posts)the country was whipped into a frenzy.
Powell was fed some kool aid too
AT THE TIME
we did not know how evil cheney and company were
AT THE TIME
we did not expect that they were out and out lying
we were all mislead
cheney , bush, rumsfeld belong is prison
powell is tainted but i do not see him as slammer material