General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsReeva Steenkamp's killer will have a bench trial
South Africa doesn't have trial by jury. I think, in this case, it may help keep the "cult of personality" from coloring the verdict ala Robert Blake.
Reeva Steenkamp was her name.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)All the more after reading that he shot her through the bathroom door and claims he thought she was an intruder. Pistorius seemed like a really great guy when I saw him covered at the Olympics last summer.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)his pillow
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)'Roids do terrible things to the mind as well as the body.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)Really awful tragedy
malaise
(269,026 posts)He will soon join Lance Armstrong as one more fraud
aquart
(69,014 posts)If it's paranoia, it's national.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)It's interesting to read comment by South Africans on "gossip" sites, and how the majority of them knew him as a very arrogant guy with a history of assaulting women, including arrests. Very different from the Golden Boy story we were sold.
The court info from today is just insane -- his story is ridiculous. He murdered her, and he was not offered bail today.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Mind you, I'm not defending a murderer. The guy clearly killed Reeva. The only question now is his degree of culpability.
But his girlfriend of five years claims he never threatened her and the case where the police were called to the house had to do with a disturbance at a party rather than a call involving a partner.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Including assaulting a woman he didn't know.
REP
(21,691 posts)And yes, we got the Super Crip narrative (disabled people who accomplish anything cease to be individuals with faults and become an inspirational narrative instead of an actual human being).
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Often it's only those closest to them who know the truth.
thought earlier partners have generally experienced their rage.
Truthfully, you just don't know people. I agreed to serve as a reference for a student of mine applying to the border patrol because he wanted to use it as a stepping stone into the FBI. He had to go through a federal background check, so when the federal officer came to ask me about him, I said he seemed like a nice, "even keeled" young man. I must have repeated "even-keeled" two or three times. The government ended up delaying his clearance. A few months later, the guy took his girlfriend hostage, killed both her parents, before eventually killing yourself.
Moral: you don't ever know people, and don't use me as a reference for the federal government. I've got zero credibility.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)You have to spend years close to someone before you really know them. And even then, if they're a sociopath, you still won't.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and murderer.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)at all. Everyone in Nicole's family knew OJ was violent.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)We'll see how many details emerge.
Also note that Nicole Brown Simpson had been married to him for years, allowing for a significant legal paper trail to develop.
But, none of that was known.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I'm just shocked. I wasn't shocked by OJ, or most of these other cases involving athletes, but I am by this one.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Domestic abusers can be anyone. Athlete, doctor, lawyer, drug dealer, etc.
Not saying that a doctor is as likely to be a domestic abuser as a drug dealer, but that you definitely see it from every socioeconomic class, from guys who are beloved and charming and popular and successful.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)This was a teenager he dated for a short time. Can't remember well enough to quote but she said she was afraid of him and afraid for her daughter and that she was extremely happy when they broke up. Actually I think she said he dumped her. Regardless, she was obviously relieved.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)As Greek Tragedy pointed out, we'll probably be hearing more stories like this in coming weeks.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Juries occasionally get it wrong, but not usually.
Judges, on the other hand, often do.
Bake
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)The only issue now is whether it was intentional.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Juries determine the facts; judges determine the law, at least in the U.S. judicial system.
Bake
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I like that we have trial by jury as a right.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)And, some people take that option, feeling they get a fairer trial that way.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Yes, you can waive the right to trial by jury, but there are rarely cases where you'd want to do that.
Bake
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)were absolutely abhorrent. Guaranteed acquittal for any white man accused of killing an African-American. Or Jew. Or civil rights activitst.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Thanks.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)It is the reason that they went to bench trials.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Bake
(21,977 posts)If I'm the defendant, I'll take a jury trial any day. Only the defendant has that choice.
Bake
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Or if the jury pool is likely to acquit him based on bias factors.
Similarly, jury trials didn't work so well for black defendants in the south, when they bothered with juries.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Pay attention.
If you're a defendant, ESPECIALLY IN THE DEEP SOUTH, take a jury trial.
Or don't. If you want to go to prison, take a bench trial.
I know what I'm talking about. I practiced law in Mississippi. But you do what you want to do.
Bake
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)public, you go for a jury trial.
Heck, even a has-been like Robert Blake got a pass for murdering his wife.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Remind me to strike you from any jury on any of my cases. Or don't. I'll remember.
Bake
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)go ahead and strike my name.
as a gay man would you advise me the same way? I am asking, not being snarky. When I lived there, I figured if I ever were to be tried I would go judge if it became known I was gay.
Bake
(21,977 posts)It's poor folks, both white and minority. I'll take a jury there any day.
There's a reason Big Business called Jefferson County MS a "judicial hellhole." Look it up. The jries there were FAIR. Both civil and criminal. And tell me you'd rather have a bench trial there. I know the judges there. You do not want a bench trial unless you're a blithering idiot. And that's just one county in MS. Is that Deep South enough for you? Try Hinds County, MS. I know those judges too. I'll take a jury trial there. ANY DAY.
This ain't the 1960s any more.
Good God.
Bake, Esq.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)He'd be standing trial in South Africa, where he's a huge celebrity and has been treated as an inspirational hero, etc etc etc.
Imagine if Ole Miss won the BCS championship. Do you think a trial involving their QB or head coach would have a truly unbiased jury?
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)SA went to bench trials because of the severe biases of juries, as well as influences of rich whites. Judges are held to a very high standard, so the bench trials tend to be very fair, for both victim and defendant.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)in regards to racial issues. Apartheid is what forced them to go to bench trials.
http://overcomingapartheid.msu.edu/unit.php?id=11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid_in_South_Africa
Bake
(21,977 posts)Somebody referenced jury trials in the US South--that's what I'm addressing. I'll stick with a jury any day, anywhere in the US.
The bias toward bench trials here seems to be because the opiner wants a conviction rather than a fair trial. I rest my case.
Bake
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Depends on the circumstances.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)And, in the US, bench trials are also fairer for certain people.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Maybe if you were a bankster charged with fraud, you might want a bench trial. That puts a LOT of power in one person's hands.
But hey, you do what you want. I'm not your lawyer.
Bake, Esq.
Response to Bake (Reply #35)
DevonRex This message was self-deleted by its author.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)Casey Anthony lucked out with an intelligent jury, but in most cases, she would have done better with a bench trial, especially with the judge she had.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/02/14/who-was-pistorius-girlfriend-reeva-steenkamp/
Most notably, the model sent out the following tweet on Feb. 10:
I woke up in a happy safe home this morning. Not everyone did. Speak out against the rape of individuals http://instagr.am/p/Viq8nNwPRy/
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)The majority of cases ending in plea bargains after the prosecution applies a little pressure.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)why would she have locked the door to use the bathroom 7 yards away from the bedroom, too far to hear or see anything?
I don't know about you, but if I were dating a guy for 3 months, were very intimate, considering marriage, and just had sex, I wouldn't be so bashful as to need to lock the bathroom door to pee in the middle of the night in a bathroom down the hall.
His story makes no sense. No woman would do that. He cannot explain the locked door in his his scenario of events.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)That's certainly plausible, if she was afraid.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Apparently, you've not read much of anything about this case. He bashed her head with a cricket bat in the bedroom, shot her once in the bedroom and she then fled to the bathroom to try to protect herself from him, but he shot her three more times through the bathroom door. She wasn't in the bathroom because she needed to pee. The assault began in the bedroom, and she fled to the bathroom to try to protect herself from him.
Her autopsy revealed she had a skull fracture from being bashed in the head, and she was hit by four bullets three of which were through the bathroom door and the first being in the bedroom. She was wearing her nightclothes, her Ipod was on the bedroom floor, her overnight bag was in the home, and the bed had obviously been slept in by two people.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I've been keeping up with this incident and read tons of stuff. I have no idea which one or which several it was.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)A few news reports cited unnamed sources. It's too early to know that sort of thing yet. Lots of false information gets out soon after crimes.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)No idea if the info is correct or not - it's just what I read.
JI7
(89,250 posts)i thought she wasn't staying in the house with him that day. i thought he was alone and she was going there to surprise him.
but if she was already in the home it makes no sense to assume the other person in the home is an intruder before thinking of the person who should be there.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)She was in her nightdress, had an overnight bag and her electronics were by her side of the bed, where she had obviously slept.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I can't remember which one. I've spent a lot of time since the incident reading about this case since "who dunnits" and "how they dunnits" have always been fascinating to me. I read lots of articles so I can't remember which one it was or if it was several. I guess you could do a google search.
According to excerpts from his affidavit he says that she was in the home and he supposedly thought she was in the bed though he also says the bedroom was pitch dark. Yet he also said that moments before he was in the bed and she was on the bedroom floor doing yoga. So his defense is that though he knew Reeva was in the home he thought there was an intruder locked in his bathroom. Yeah, right. But he has to stick to the intruder story (ridiculous as it is) since that's what he said to the three people he called after shooting her rather than calling for police or EMT's.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)I hadn't thought of that.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)He awoke and closed the balcony door and git a fan, all without his legs.
He got back into bed, and heard a noise in the bathroom, which is only a small "toilet stall" bathroom.
From the bed, he shot his 9mm four times through the bathroom door 22 feet away.
Only then did he notice Reeva wasn't in bed.
He put on his legs and used the cricket bat to bash in the door. He dropped the bat in her blood.
He then called his friend.
He waited a few minutes.
He then called his family.
He was alone for about 20 minutes and carried her downstairs. not calling the EMTs. No one did.
His friend arrived. And then his family. EMTs were called. She was alive when his friends and family arrived. She was dead by the time the EMTs arrived.
That's the basic story he told at his hearing today.
The Judge didn't buy it either, and denied bail.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)that's got to earn him jail time.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I think this was murder from what I have read about the evidence. It's really sad.