Michigan Auto Insurance - WTF???

[IdaBriggs]

From the headline (and my profile) you can tell I live in Michigan. We are in our 40s, and have good driving records. My husband's employer provides a decent quality medical insurance.

My husband and I have two cars and thankfully both are "paid off." One is a 2003 Chevy Trailblazer, and the other is a 2006 Pontiac Vibe. Both have over 100,000 miles on them. We have "PL/PD" ("Personal Liability/Property Damage&quot and "Comprehensive" (hit a deer/tree falls on them) insurance, and pay "monthly" premiums. This time last year that premium was $140 per month for both cars, with a $500 deductible. (This translated to $1,680 per year for two old cars.)

In August of last year our rates went up by $50 per month. (That means they went up $600 per year.) I contacted our agent, increased our deductible to $1,000, modified a few "options" and got it down to $25 more per month. (That meant $300 per year, with monthly payments of $165 per month.)

This month it went up *AGAIN*. We are now at $220 per month. That is a $55 per month increase, also known as $660 per year.

We have had no claims, or tickets. I called the agent, and was told Michigan had "mandated" these increases. I am a cynical sort, and made a couple of phone calls to other agents (all of whom were able to pull up our records to see we are insured).

The "best" rate I was able to get quoted was for $235 per month (wtf!), which translates to $2,820 per year. Per the woman quoting, $1,898 annually (or $949 per six month period) is for "lifetime coverage of medical expenses" to be coordinated with our medical insurer in case of a "serious" accident. The other $942 annually (or $471 per six month period) is actually the "PL/PD" coverage on our cars.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/03/michigan_auto_insurance_rates.html
Tuesday March 31 2009

Michigan auto insurance rates going up

Michigan motorists will pay $20 more per vehicle for unlimited medical coverage in their auto policies, $104.58 to $124.89 effective July 1, the Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association decided Monday.

The MCCA, created in 1978, is a risk pool that reimburses auto insurers for medical and long-term disability claims that exceed $460,000. In a statement, the association said "the assessment increased this year primarily because investment returns decreased during the last year while claim costs continued to increase."

Michigan is the only state with unlimited lifetime medical coverage for auto accident victims. In most states, health coverage is optional. In states where coverage is mandated, New York has the highest coverage limit, $50,000.

In 2008, when the stock markets tanked by more than 40 percent, the MCCA paid out $724 million in claims costs. The new $124 assessment includes $101 to handle claims and $24 to address an estimated deficit of $2.2 billion, or nearly $323 per insured vehicle. The assessment was highest in 2005 when it was set at more than $141 per vehicle. Since 1979, there have more than 23,100 claims. The MCCA expects to receive 1,050 new claims during the upcoming period from July 1 through June 30, 2010.

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/Auto_Insurance_Rates_Going_Up_At_Least_30_143017565.html

March 16, 2012

Auto Insurance Rates Going Up At Least $30

Michigan drivers will pay $30 more for auto insurance starting July 1 to care for accident victims who have brain damage, paralysis or other catastrophic injuries, raising the annual fee to $175 per vehicle.

The Michigan Catastrophic Claims Association announced the 21 percent premium increase Friday.

Lawmakers are discussing bills that would allow motorists to choose among various levels of personal injury protection coverage, rather than mandating uncapped coverage. Opponents say that wouldn't guarantee lower rates.

Regular auto insurance policies handle coverage up to $500,000, after which all insured motorists are assessed the additional fee to cover more severe cases.

The association covers medical bills for roughly 12,800 accident victims across the state. Last year it paid out $927 million in claims resulting from catastrophic injuries.

May I politely point out that $175 per vehicle is NOT "$1,898 annually (or $949 per six month period)" -- and a google/search on the state's website isn't helping *at all* -- http://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601,7-154-35299_10555_13222_13224-66774--,00.html

And now, I just went on line to "Progressive", typed in the information, and received a quot for $163 per month, which is cheaper yet - what is going on here? Anybody have a clue???

Thanks in advance!!!

[nobodyspecial]

1. Don't go through agents. They need their cut and get bonuses for steering you.

Progressive is a good company and I've had good luck with them. Also, you really need to drop the comprehensive. It just isn't worth it. If something was to happen, you would get a crap payout with the age and mileage. If the cost exceeds value, you don't get the repairs. It is totaled and you get a disappointing check. Get quotes with the comp and without. Take liability only and put the savings in your new car account.

[IdaBriggs]

3. The comp was only $20 every six months --

which means 2 cars * 2 = $80 per year - doh! Good point!

I am still in shock that without any accidents/tickets, and with two "old" cars, our premiums went up $80 per month (or $960 per year) with no change in coverage.



The rates seem insane.

[nobodyspecial]

8. No matter what you decide, dropping the comp is the right decision

Make sure you do get uninsured motorists, though, so if someone without insurance hits you, you are covered.

[Yo_Mama]

35. Mostly it is low investment returns

All prop/casualty insurance rates are going up. All of them.

Normally what happens is that companies put the payments in a fund and investment returns on that fund "pay" for a good piece of the coverage. Naturally, you cannot put that fund in risky investments, because you might lose it, and it's really the insured's money.

But now, with interest rates being driven so low, investment returns on high quality non-volatile bonds and so forth (they can't put the money in the stock market) are extremely low.

So house insurance and auto insurance is going up for everyone.

[theaocp]

4. I liked Progressive a lot until

I was rear-ended at a stoplight by a drunk in late 2003. It was 1a on a Saturday night in pouring rain. My car was incapacitated (totaled) and the drunk took off for the highway. A call to Progressive got me a guy who told me to "find" a towing service to tow us out of there. They wouldn't and didn't do SHIT. Fuck Progressive. I will steer anyone away from them.

[IdaBriggs]

6. Suggestions for other carriers? At $684 less annually,

they are starting to sound *very* good. (And please keep in mind our vehicles are older.)

ON EDIT: $220 - $163 = $57 * 12 = $684 = doh! Sorry for the math challenge moment, but the concept is still valid...

[enlightenment]

36. Ida, are either of you

eligible for USAA? They have great rates, especially with multi-car policies.

I do feel for you - I live in Nevada and we all take it in the shorts, for some reason I've never been able to fathom.

[nobodyspecial]

12. I'm not sure what you wanted them to do.

I was hit by someone and Progressive handled all of the details. Had a certified shop -- I called and handled the pick up and delivery -- and Progressive handled the collection from the other guy's company. Even had a satisfaction survey afterward.

[theaocp]

13. Well, since it was 1a in the middle of a storm and my car

was not going anywhere, I would've appreciated the jackass with Progressive to find me a towing service. The attitude of, "So sorry, sir, but good luck to you," kind of pissed me off. What else is more basic than helping out the paying customer?

[blueamy66]

49. My guy got hit by a hit and run, DUI jerk who had Progressive

They are paying through the nose......

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Progressive comes with free towing benfits and road side assistance.

Last summer my car needed to go to the mechanic, one call to Progressive and out came the truck, no charge to me. Came quickly too. Got there early.

[HooptieWagon]

7. I agree with dropping comprehensive.

Just not worth it for an old car that's paid off. If you're worried about damage, self-insure...take the savings and put them in a sepatate "auto-account" you can draw from for collision damage or mechanical repairs. If you don't spend it before replacing car, you already have a sizable down-payment saved up.

[IdaBriggs]

11. I am in agreement. The "$20 for six months" seemed reasonable

*before* the prices were jacking up all over the place.

(I live in terror of deer - lol!)

[HooptieWagon]

14. The $1000 deductable ...

is probably the majority of damage from a deer hit. You'd be paying that out of pocket anyway. If you can save/set aside several hundred per year, per vehicle, you've got an emergency fund of several thousand in a few years.

[Aerows]

59. It's not worth it

to be insurance poor. Like NS suggested, take the savings and tuck it away. Then you have a real nest egg for an emergency, not some perceived security that may or may not pay out.

[Aerows]

58. I don't do comp, either

If I get into a wreck, it's going to go one of two ways - I'll either be able to afford to fix it, or I can just scrap it. It helps that my family owns an auto repair business, but still. If you own your vehicle and it isn't an antique or otherwise specialty, just do liability.

[ellie]

2. I lived in Michigan

and the auto insurance industry nearly drove me to the poor house. We had two cars with liens and had to have full coverage on both.

[IdaBriggs]

5. I can't even fathom what "full coverage" would be at this point.

We have been talking about "the next car" (both have over 100,000 miles), but now I am trying not to freak out about the insurance (never mind the monthly car payment).

I know a couple of people driving around without car insurance; that kind of "Russian Roulette" (especially with Michigan roads) seemed foolish to me, but now I am starting to wonder....???

[Myrina]

9. So just imagine what your health insurance premiums are going to be ...

... under the same sort of machinations?
"Affordable Care Act" ... notsoaffordable once corporate America has it's way ....

[IdaBriggs]

10. The "helpful agent" explained that my numbers would be WORSE

if we didn't have health insurance!

[MichiganVote]

15. We're paying for the stupid no helmet motorcycle "law". Like that wasn't going to happen.

Not sure we'll be staying in this state. If you're wealthy, you really need to move to Michigan. If not, might as well stay away unless you want your pocket picked every other day by the republican state legislature, governor and soon to be state supreme court. Its ridiculous.

[IdaBriggs]

19. That makes sense, but I can't find any supporting data

Anywhere. $175 per car seems no big deal, and with two that would be $100 more per year than what we paid last year, so how did it end up closer to a thousand???

[MichiganVote]

23. I doubt we'll ever hear anything bad about any law this bunch of fools has passed.

Case in point. After that stupid fireworks law was passed DURING the driest summer most of have known in a long time AND fireworks were found to be the CAUSE of burning down a church--nary a report was found in the media. Act of God or some stupid thing like that. So we all get to pay higher rates so some tatooed goldilocks with a few false teeth can feel a breeze and have his/her freedom.

[Motown_Johnny]

22. Are you sure it is the helmet law?

This is a no fault state. I don't think my car insurance would need to cover someone else's head injury as long as he/she is legally insured (but I am no expert).


I do have a problem with our "uninsured driver" coverage, which is mandatory. It is impossible for someone legally insured to collect on that. We are just paying for others who are driving illegally. The least they could do is roll that cost in and hide it from us. Having it listed as a separate category is just rubbing our noses in it.

[MichiganVote]

24. Speculation on my part. But its a good speculation. Esp. since we have NO report of

how many of those helmetless wonders have actually bought the extra insurance they are supposed to have purchased. But don't worry. Nobody in this state will ever check anyway.

[Motown_Johnny]

38. My point is that, in a no fault state, your insurance covers you

and your passengers. I don't see how car insurance can go up because of a motorcycle law. The motorcycle insurance should go up.

Again, I am no expert but your speculation does not make sense to me.

[MichiganVote]

41. You do know that insurance costs are based on actuarial principles right?

Sort of like gambling-the house never loses. Meaning, the more accidents/collisions there are, they higher the premiums for all motorized vehicles. Even the actuarial assumption that there will be more collisions, more injuries, more deaths, will raise premium costs.

[Motown_Johnny]

42. Vaguely

I am assuming that the increased injuries (assuming there are increased injuries) from the lack of a helmet law would be passed onto motorcycle insurance, not car insurance.

As I have said twice before in this sub thread, I am no expert on this subject.

[MichiganVote]

44. I'm no expert either. But if a gambling establishment decides to offer a "special" in one end of the

house, in another end of the house the odds will change in favor of the house. Which they always are anyway. So no matter which ins. co. is offering coverage for motorized vehicles, the company will easily raise rates in one area to cover the costs of another. There was a book I read years ago, called I think, America's 2nd Largest Banking Industry. It was all about the insurance industry. And this was back in the early 90's. I can only imagine what its like now.

[Gorp]

16. Hell I pay less than that for two cars, my wife and I and three daughters.

What company are you using? State Farm has much lower rates that what you presented. I'm also a 4th generation State Farm customer, but that doesn't have anything to do with the rates.

Something smells fishy and it isn't Lake Michigan.

[IdaBriggs]

18. We *were* State Farm people for over twenty years

Until their rates started becoming insane a few years ago, when we switched to Farmers (which fronts for Bristol-West?). Looks like we are about to go Progressive - will be going over details with husband later tonight.

[Gorp]

21. All I've ever heard about Progressive is horror stories. Same with Geiko.

Every time I call my State Farm agent, all I need to do is tell them my name. They know who I am, know my vehicles, know my house. The agent who's name is on the card knows me personally and deals with me personally, but the staff all know me as well. They work with me even when I can't afford a premium. Curiously, the staff have even suggested I tweak my coverage because it automatically extends the payment deadline by 30 days. I'm cool with that.

The discount "insurance" companies depend on tech support from India. Try explaining a fender bender to somebody who can't speak English. I'm not a bigot by any means, but the reality is that most off-shore "support" centers aren't staffed by people with a reasonable command of our language. That's an unfortunate reality of our times.

I call my local agent's office - 3 miles from here - and speak to someone who lives in the area and knows my policies without having to look them up. It's worth a few more bucks, but State Farm still has awesome rates.

There's a good rule to use for most companies. The more they advertise the less they put into customer service. The Geiko lizard and the ditsbo Progressive uses are all over the TV. That's not money being used to support customers. When was the last time you saw an ad for State Farm?

And no, I have no financial connection to State Farm. I'm just a long-time satisfied customer. They've always taken care of me.

[IdaBriggs]

25. We were very satisfied with them for (literally) decades.

My husband and I even fought over which of our agents we were going to keep when we got married. Then (after 20+ years of very happy service for me) our agent got all nervy and RETIRED! State Farm switched us twice in the next year to our "new" agent, then I switched one myself, and then they played some Ugly Games with us on first our homeowners (rate increase of over $2K) then raising the auto unbearably when we took the homeowners away. Shortly thereafter we joined the Farmers family, but at this point if I can save close to a thousand dollars a year, I will jump ship and take my chances. Close to $3K for PL/PD on two older cars with older drivers/good records/no claims in five years? This is somewhere between obscene and absurd. Sigh.

[Gorp]

27. I'm not doubting you but that's rediculous. We pay about $1500 a year for car insurance.

That includes kids. Our homeowner's insurance is about the same and that's with riders for musical instruments and tools. Something smells fishy in the numbers you posted. Call the central office and ask for an explanation. I'm thinking someone may be doing a little skimming of the cream on top of the policy. The central office won't be happy about that.

[notadmblnd]

30. Sounds like you and I have the same agent

[Gorp]

32. I doubt it, but I like mine and I've liked all of the others I've had.

It's a little disturbing to hear about one that isn't keeping with the company's traditions. My late grandfather had State Farm all along, my dad, me, and my daughters all use it. They've taken care of us. We've had a few unfortunate incidents and they've always looked out for our best interests. Oh, and stay the HELL away from Nationwide. They aren't "on your side". But that's another story.

[notadmblnd]

33. I followed my agent to State Farm when she left Allstate

She called me up and said she could get me better rates. I was in an accident last July, some guy ran a red light totaled my car. I made one phone call (someone else called the police). She took care of everything for me. I'm very satisfied with State Farm. I was basically agreeing with you when I said "it sound's like we have the same agent" because you are right, it pays to build a good relationship with the people that provide services to you.

[Gorp]

37. Yeah, it's also nice to have a relationship where you just say your name.

There are three people (other than Bob) who answer the phone and they all know me by name. I haven't had to provide a policy number in ten years. THAT, my friend, is service. You won't get that from "Yason" in India. Again, I'm not prejudiced in any way, but off-shore phone banks are useless. When they get frustrated they just hang up. You can't get back to the same representative because there's no tracking number. There's no reason they shouldn't hang up.

I did 24x7 tech support for many years. Three a.m. bean bag chair support with a cold one. Dial-up into servers all over the country (and Canada) and all for a small supplement to my paycheck. Curiously, I rarely had to dial in. I knew the systems inside out and could give instructions from that bean bag chair, which I eventually had to throw out because one of the cats kept pissing on it.

I was the one everyone defaulted to when they couldn't figure out a problem. We had a two hour limit for off-hours support calls. The underlings would use the entire two hours and pass it off to me. I usually solved the problem in 15 minutes or less. Somehow that didn't seem fair, but that's the breaks. They got paid for 2 hours of "on-call" time and I got paid for a quarter hour. Being proficient doesn't pay anymore.

[IdaBriggs]

48. Until your agent retires. Sigh.

They were awesome, but the "new guys" we were passed off to, not so much.

[Gorp]

51. Knowing him, I'm pretty confident he's already made arangements with his staff.

There's almost certainly a line of succession in the office. I like everyone there. Sometimes I handle things by phone, but I also like just dropping by. If the agent is in the office at the time he usually invites me into his personal office and a lot of the time is just banter. Everyone there makes it a point to get to know customers and they often inquire about family members. It's very personal and that type of interaction is getting increasingly rare.

[IdaBriggs]

57. Our guy did not have succession. When he retired,

the corporate office appears to have "randomly" assigned his accounts to different agents in the area - and then did it AGAIN a few months later. The third time I switched to an agent I picked, but couldn't get calls returned, etc. (We were trying to get an additional umbrella policy because we were landlords, and it *never* happened; the agent was young, and no one in the office seemed to know how to handle it. Very frustrating!) When we bought our new house, because there had been two claims on our old one, they refused to insure it as a rental. One of the claims was from a 3-year old hot water heater having the bottom fall out while we were out of town for the weekend, and the other was when my dogs escaped my countrol, and were hit by a car - her deductible went under my home owners. Then they jacked up our home-owners to nearly triple at the new house (due to tornado damage or something), and we bailed.

I don't think they noticed.

[HiPointDem]

40. I see ads for state farm pretty regularly. i used to have state farm, then they raised their

rates a ton, so i changed. i left the country for awhile, cancelled, came back & checked out sf again through an agent & was told i didn't have a good enough credit score to even *get* it. which made no sense to me as there was nothing wrong with my credit score (which was above average) except that i have never used credit for anything except buying a house & the occasional xmas gift.

so that gave me a really bad impression of state farm.

[Gorp]

50. They've always taken care of my family. If there's an incident, they just handle it.

I can't think of a single time where I wasn't satisfied with the service. I suppose it has a lot to do with the individual agent's office, and perhaps we just got lucky, but I see no reason to change and I get a nice multi-policy discount by running my car insurance, my daughters car insurance (her own car), and the homeowner's insurance through the same company. My rates might be a little higher than Geiko, Progressive, and other no-frills companies, but I can't imagine getting better service than I have so it's worth it.

[TheMightyFavog]

17. I live in a border area.

A lot of folks with friends or relatives on the Wisconsin side of the line will have their cars registered in the names of their Badger state friends/relatives in order to dodge Michigan's high car insurance costs.

[virgogal]

28. And no one reports them? Here in MA if someone tries for a NH registration

someone will always call the authorities.

[TheMightyFavog]

46. Cops have better things to do, I guess?

[virgogal]

53. They don't call the cops,they call the DMV.

[TheMightyFavog]

54. Maybe folks up there think its a form of sticking it to the man?

[Motown_Johnny]

20. Hmm... my policy is up in less than a month.

I tend to pay 6 months at a time so I haven't seen any rate increase since my last payment. I guess I should start looking into it.

I am wondering if better health insurance might offset part of that cost. I already have AFLAC but did not go with the long term disability coverage. If this coverage partially offsets an auto insurance premium it might be enough to push me over the edge into buying that too.


FYI. I am with Progressive for auto and Blue Care Network for health.

[IdaBriggs]

26. My husband's employer uses the Blues.

It is decent insurance, and I was told the issue was "coordinating coverage/lifetime care." If we didn't have insurance, the rates would have been higher!

[Motown_Johnny]

39. Yes, health insurance always cuts your car insurance costs

because the car insurance company does not need to cover everything.


I am wondering if having even better coverage (AFLAC long term disability) would cut these new costs enough to make it worth purchasing.

[notadmblnd]

29. Also auto insurance going up 30 dollars is only 6 dollars a month based on a 6 mo policy

I live in Michigan and I'm paying $145.00 a month for two cars. A 94 Chevy pickup and a 2006 Chevy Impala. The Impala has full coverage with a $500.00 deductible and the pickup is PL/PD. I'm on good terms with my agent and she does her best for me. I don't know why their insurance is so high. Did they let it lapse? Do they have teenage drivers at home? Both of those situations would cause it to have such an increase.

[IdaBriggs]

43. No lapse. No teenagers. The big hit supposedly

The "Personal Injury Protection" coverage - from two separate agents.

[lynne]

31. I think Michigan is a "no-fault" state -

- and no-fault states usually have higher base liability premiums as compared to other states that have "at-fault" coverage. Check your liability charges and see how much they've increased over the past few years. There's nothing you can do about being required to carry no-fault coverage but at least you'll know where your premium dollar is going.

Agree with removing the comp. Mandatory med pay is something I've not heard of, it's normally optional. The coverage is so broad that it's no wonder the med pay premium keeps increasing.

Have you moved? Different "territories" have different base premium dependent on number of auto accidents, cost of living, etc. for each territory. If you moved into a higher rated territory, that could also increase your premium.

[Purveyor]

34. Give Auto Owners a shot. I 'had' them for years and the rates beat all except, I parked the

vehicle over the summer. Thinking that I could save a few bucks I cancelled the insurance for 7 months.

When I went to reinsure, Auto Owners wouldn't even give me a quote as I was now considered an 'unrated driver' and will only consider drivers who have been insured for at least 6 months.

Farmers wrote a policy, with coverage only to make it legal to drive down the road, for $68 a month. Renewal is about to happen next month and it will be jumping up to $88 a month.

Going to see what Auto Owners can do since I'm been insured for over 6 months.

Also heard Frankenmuth Mutual give go rates and may check them out too.

I 'feel your pain'...indeed!

[etherealtruth]

45. I pay ~ $110/month (in Michigan)

"Full coverage," low deductible on a 2010 Ford Focus. I had a major claim last year .... some idiot hit me on 696 (he was found 100% at fault/ in a no fault state?) .... AAA paid 7,000 to repair the car.

I think there is significant red-lining in Michigan. Live in the "wrong" zip-code and insurance premiums sky-rocket

[IdaBriggs]

47. We live in West Bloomfield. nt

[cody1]

55. Michigan Auto Insurance - WTF???

Last edited Tue Nov 12, 2013, 04:44 AM - Edit history (1)

Well, auto insurance rates are bound to fluctuate. If what you’re paying now is too much for you, start looking elsewhere. Get quotes from multiple companies and see what’s out there. There are discounts that could lower your rates considerably. I’m with the Hartford if that helps. You can get The Hartford online auto insurance rates so I’d suggest looking into that. Good luck!

[IdaBriggs]

56. When I told our agent we were going to go with Progressive,

they were "magically" able to "lower" it back to $165 a month.



Bottom line is we are getting less coverage for more money - and the nonsense claim about the rates going up to $175 per car per year for the "extra" lifetime coverage justifying a thousand dollar a year increase --

Its a racket.

[In_The_Wind]

60. Hello ~ cody1

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In The Wind

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