General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre you pro-drones or anti-drones?
As an offensive weapon striking 'targets' outside the U.S.
Not as a spying device, here or abroad. Consider that a different subject.
My wife and I were having a discussion about this last weekend.
34 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Pro | |
9 (26%) |
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Anti | |
17 (50%) |
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It's complicated | |
8 (24%) |
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0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
Silent3
(15,223 posts)Make the process of deploying drones more accountable, and it's certainly not inherently worse than deploying any other weapons of war -- which should be done minimally and as a last resort. I'm not an absolute pacifist.
onehandle
(51,122 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)'Pro drone' versus 'anti drone'? It's sort of like trying to pigeon hole someone on the question of abortion.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)I agree with Richard Clarke.
GRENADE
(29 posts)by drones is accepted, there will be no "consequence" to start a war. I am anti-war...therefore I am Anti-drone! Especially against american citizens.
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)War has always been and always will be
regardless if the US is involved or not
Hitler killed 20 million and would have killed 20 million without us in
Who wouldn't have wanted a drone to drop on him 2 weeks prior to giving the orders to go and arrest or kill 20 million people, and 6 million Jews like my relatives.
and any collateral damage most likely would have died anyhow by the bad people who stop at nothing.
Who wouldn't have wanted a drone to drop on Timid McCoward in Oklahoma City before he killed all the kids and others.
GRENADE
(29 posts)hitler would have also had drones and it would of been a lot easier for him to kill many more Jews (like your relatives)
graham4anything
(11,464 posts)white_wolf
(6,238 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)frazzled
(18,402 posts)as long as they're not angry. But the honey is sweet!
I think you meant to say "Do you approve of the way drones are being used in war situations?" (You could also ask about some of their civilian uses, such as scientific research or rescue missions. Drones in themselves are nothing to like or dislike: it's the uses to which they are put.)
pampango
(24,692 posts)I suspect we have killed a thousand times (at least) as many civilians with bombs and missiles fired from planes, "collateral damage" and fire from soldiers on the ground of one form or another.
If I opposed drones because they kill civilians I would have to oppose practically all military weapons. Since that is not your poll question, I voted in favor of drones.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I agree with your assessment, Bush killed a million innocent civilians, Obama killed a few thousand innocent civilians. Bush was slash and burn, Obama was drone king.
I voted in opposition to drones because I do not believe they are effective at rooting out terrorist cells. At most they're keeping the terrorists in a state of chaos, but one of these days they're going to get out of the hills and organize in the cities, clandestinely, and we won't be able to get them. At that point they'll have a nuke or a dirty bomb or something and it won't be pretty. And I think drones will be directly responsible, simply delaying the inevitable.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Micro Air Vehicles (MAV)
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Like Moore's Law with computers, the same thing is happening with drones. They are getting smaller and cheaper and more versatile. Soon terrorists will be able to buy them on the open market and modify them into attack drones.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Under the proposed sale, revealed this week at a defense conference in Abu Dhabi and confirmed Friday, General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc. of Poway will sell an undisclosed number of the robotic aircraft to the UAE armed forces for $197 million.
The agreement would mark the first time a non-NATO country has obtained the American-made technology, which has reshaped modern warfare. The deal has drawn scrutiny from critics who worry about the technology falling into terrorists' hands or being used by governments against their own citizens.
The UAE, notably the city-state of Dubai, has been a crossroads for banking, finance and technology as the nation emerged as an economic hub for the Arab world. It has only recently begun to tighten regulations to limit money laundering and other shady financial endeavors that attracted Islamic militants, drug smugglers and other traffickers.
Over the last year, UAE security officials which have drawn criticism for their surveillance tactics have also cracked down on internal dissent after the political upheavals of the "Arab Spring."
The sale would still need the approval of Congress...
Link: http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/22/business/la-fi-predator-drone-sale-20130223
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)And drones aren't exactly invisible. Anywhere they're flying states know they're there.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Some drones are the size of an insect. Drones the size of a basketball can be bought on the civilian market, and they are quiet in flight.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Check out this video:
You don't need huge amount of high explosive. Just put a tiny needle coated with a super potent poison attached to the insect sized drone and sting the target.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Once they do "innocent civilians" won't be in the equation. It'd be like the killing of Bin Laden. Targeted, direct. No women or children involved.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)If drones are outlawed, only outlaws will have them.
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Nor did I imply that. I was pointing out what is coming.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)it's the end I object to.
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Player_One
(10 posts)That's one less chance for me and mine to get shot at. Love em...
Of course, 99.99% of the time I love em for their ability to see whats going on. That's day to day however....
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I'm anti-bombing people and anti-spying on people, drones or other methods.
I'm pro-drones for things like weather research/data collection, which at least two drones were designed for.
The Altus:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/news/FactSheets/FS-058-DFRC.html
Global Hawk:
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/imagegallery/image_feature_2362.html
moondust
(19,993 posts)Not having skin in the game means not risking lives on the battlefield. Good.
Not having skin in the game means killin' is too easy and therefore subject to abuse. Bad.
Some people probably have enough restraint to handle it responsibly while some "cowboy diplomacy" types are more inclined to blow somebody away at the drop of a hat (McCain).
Waltons_Mtn
(345 posts)An additional point, remember during the war when the Iraqi troops surrendered to the television crew. The use of drones fails to give the enemy that chance to surrender. "What if" a (suspected) terrorist saw the drone coming and threw his hands into the air in surrender. Now if they still cut that missile loose, they are killing a prisoner of war. Of course, no-one but the guys in the air conditioned trailer will ever know. Total lack of accountability.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Oldenuff
(582 posts)is what they want you to believe.Oh,we would never ever use it against our own citizens...oh no...well..maybe if there were citizens who became enemy combatants....you know.
To even be having this discussion is unbelievable.
Jeff In Milwaukee
(13,992 posts)You can either send an infantry company on a mission, for which you're almost certain to have 1-2 dead and 3-5 severely wounded. Or you can blow the place to smithereens with a drone.
Unless there's a compelling reason to have boots on the ground, I would be hard put to send my guys into combat if I can meet my objective in other ways.
The downside, of course, is the drones become a no muss-no fuss way of engaging in offensive operations. Since none of our guys get killed, it's way too easy to start lobbing drones indiscriminately.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)That demon is out of the box and won't be put back in. Just like every other new and improved method of governments mass murdering people, drones will spread to all power grubbing, authoritarian, military types on the planet and they won't ever give them up.
The day will inevitably come when drone attacks will be launched against people and targets within the USA. That is guaranteed and there is nothing our fearless "leaders" can do to stop it.
Thanks again, MIC, you are real fucking geniuses.
Myrina
(12,296 posts).... how - according to some of the spy-guys - we could spot bin Laden in a horse caravan in Pakistan in <?> 2003 <?> and even 'read the time on the watch' one of his dudes was wearing, and not do a pinpoint strike to 'eliminate' specific targets rather than bunker bust entire cities full of people.
If we could utilize drones in that manner, and ONLY that manner, I would be ok with them - think of the troops lives it would save (not to mention MONEY).
On the other hand, if we have that ability, we have that ability. What's to stop us from using it anywhere to eliminate 'specific targets' that the present Admin (whoever it may be) didn't like?
Color me confused.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)FreeJoe
(1,039 posts)They serve a purpose for our national defense. In fact, I think the day when fighter pilots are replaced will happen in my lifetime. Am I happy with the way they are being used? Of course not.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)It does not matter to me where the pilot is seated. Just say no.
valiberal26
(41 posts)I don't believe that the United States should have drone technology, or should use it for any purpose whatsoever. Having the ability to wage war with no direct consequences only encourages armed conflict and military adventurism.