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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOnly 14, Bangladeshi girl charged with adultery was lashed to death
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/29/bangladesh.lashing.death/index.htmlDarbesh Khan and his wife, Aklima Begum, had to watch their youngest daughter being whipped until she dropped.
Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl.
Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public.
Hena dropped after 70.
Bloodied and bruised, she was taken to hospital, where she died a week later.
****
I literally have no words, just rage.
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mike_c
(36,281 posts)Terrrible.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)dominion over women, rape, and murder.
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)It's amazing how the drive for power can be so pathetic.
demwing
(16,916 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)Religion is part of culture. It's role in societies is complex. But to imagine that such things wouldn't happen if not for religion is absurd.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)Organized religion is corruption incarnate, creating stories control and empower the chosen few. There is nothing positive it can offer that people can't work out as well or better without the nonsense.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...to the power of patriarchal religious insanity.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)
lpbk2713
(42,759 posts)I swear, their calendar is about four centuries slow.
What a fuggen agonizing way to go. And a kid at that. OMFG
JI7
(89,252 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)The poor girl was raped. And then punished for being raped. This world can be so full of evil it turns my stomach.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)The victim of rape is more likely to be punished than the perpetrator
http://www.aina.org/news/20081117111817.htm
"Local Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minor girls and women by flogging and beating them with shoes.[1] Similar cases of punishing raped women are Mina v. the State, Bibi v. the State and Bahadur v. the State.[2] Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.[3]
You might think that such horrific barbarity cannot be the real Sharia law; that it is a misapplication of the law by ignorant clergy. Sadly, neither is true."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I can't say anything more.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...it was probably something she wore, or something she said or something she did. She asked to be raped. How dare she taunt and tease good, religious men. She is responsible for their actions.
misswizard1
(12 posts)More like she was raped by her husband's brother and they needed to preseve the family honor.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)We'd have to open our doors to literally tens of millions of women and girls. I'm game but it'll never happen.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)What scum to do this to her.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)These people disgust me.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Fuck Religious fundamentalists.
Why single out Islam? Well, it IS the biggest pain in the ass right now. But it alone is not the problem.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Pretending that Islam isn't a pretty uniquely shitty religious force in the world right now is an exercise in profound intellectual dishonesty.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Trying to inflict the magical balance fairy makes me want to vomit. The reality is that if this had happened in the US, the perp would probably get the death penalty rather than the respect for the iman title he no doubt enjoys.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Like I said....
pecwae
(8,021 posts)is about Islam, includes Islamic fundamentalists, fatwa.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Islam (or Hinduism) gives specific form to the problem but isn't the problem itself.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)A punto!
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)It doesn't matter which magical sky-daddy they pray to - the result is equally batshit. Religion poisons the mind and destroys rationality.
There are millions of fundie Christians over here who think the Handmaid's Tale is an instruction manual.
Initech
(100,081 posts)Look at the Christian Taliban here - people like Bryan Fischer, Bill Donahue, Pat Robertson, Fox & Friends, Fred Phelps, Todd Akin, Paul Ryan, I could name 1,00s more. They want to see that kind of anti woman brutality happen here. It's fucking disgusting. 
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)but they do not want to stone women to death for adultery, flog rape victims, condemn people to death for homosexuality, and behead those who draw cartoons they don't like.
Posts like yours are somewhat of a DU tradition, but Islamic fundamentalists are much, much more barbaric than Christian fundamentalists.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)...but her parents should have died trying to save her. It's a parent's most important and sacred responsibility. Oh, and FUCK the piece of shit imam, and fuck the entire piece of shit village.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)
Just makes my heart sick.
K&R for more eyes on the story.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)...the man gets whipped?
SwissTony
(2,560 posts)Her punishment under sharia or Islamic law was 101 lashes; his 201.
Mahbub Khan managed to escape after the first few lashes.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
How f'ing surprising!!!!!
Taverner
(55,476 posts)
whathehell
(29,067 posts)14 year old girls are NOT lashed to death on the basis of
any "religion" in the industrialized west and we all know this.
Let's forget being pc and get real instead, because this kind of ugly brutality
has not been a "religious" matter in the West for at least
four centuries -- It's Fundamentalist Islam and the
backward, misogynist culture in which it thrives.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)YEs, the culture is misogynistic - because they practice a misogynist religion.
It wasn't too long ago when women couldn't be ministers at most churches.
Cultures change, but the longer they cling to Bronze Age myths the slower they do it.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)As for blaming the misogynist culture on the misogynist religion,
I really don't think we know if the culture is the fault
of the religion, or the religion is the fault of the culture. It's kind of
a chicken and egg thing.
For what it's worth, Islam and Christianity originated much later than the
Bronze Age, but the more pertinent question might be why the Judaeo-
Christian West progressed beyond these brutal practices while the Islamic
East did not.
0rganism
(23,957 posts)It wasn't so long ago that hyper-religious people in the "Christian West" were doing some pretty awful things in the name of their god, too.
I'm hopeful that the prevalence of widespread global electronic communications will hasten Islam's progress toward general rejection of brutal and outdated customs by a century or two.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)the youngest of all, and one does not see them calling for
the lashing deaths of 14 year olds.
Fair as we may all want to be, sometimes you've just got
to call it as it is. Reality isn't always politically correct.
HomeboyHombre
(46 posts)that religion in general is not inherently evil, and can be a force for good just as the religious believe.
But your example here isn't the best. See this for example.
On Sept. 11, 1857, in a meadow in southwestern Utah, a militia of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons, attacked a wagon train of Arkansas families bound for California. After a five-day siege, the militia persuaded the families to surrender under a flag of truce and a pledge of safe passage. Then, in the worst butchery of white pioneers by other white pioneers in the entire colonization of America, approximately 140 men, women and children were slaughtered. Only 17 children under the age of 8 - the age of innocence in the Mormon faith - were spared.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon106.html
I hate to give the religion haters more ammo, but facts do matter.
We better stick to Quakers and Amish, heh.
0rganism
(23,957 posts)hence charting its religious origins back to 0AD with the rest of 'em. And, as was observed, there have been some fairly recent atrocities associated with the westward expansion, let alone the colonization of the Americas.
The "Christian West" was hunting witches into the 18th century, with all the misogynist brutality that entailed. I'll hold out hope for the "Muslim Middle East" to do better until the end of the 21st or my expiration date, whichever comes first, thank you very much.
* Despite what the fundamentalists may say -- hell, they discount Catholics too.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)Not, apparently, in Bangladesh. 
Taverner
(55,476 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)When it becomes anything that could remotely
be called "the Judeo-Christian West".
Taverner
(55,476 posts)That sounds pretty "western" to me
Besides, when it comes down to it, it's like we're arguing who is the nice guy: Charles Manson or Ted Bundy?
whathehell
(29,067 posts)The pc police should jump in and save you any moment now. 
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Ted Bundy, Mother Teresa, MLK Jr, St Francis, gay Christians AND homophobic Christians are all part of your club.
The sooner you do that instead of trying to define a "real" Christian, the sooner we can move foreward.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)not to mention St. Francis, gay Christians, MLK Jr, and our supposed "club" 
Beyond that, I'd suggest you might want to "admit" a few things yourself,
namely that:
A. Your attempts at "equivalence" are lame and ran out of steam two posts ago.
B. Logic and debate are not your strong suits.
C. Posting while drugged or drunk is rarely successful.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Is that really such a hard concept. Why can't I call the people in Bangladesh who obey the iman the uncivilized barbarians they are without running into the pc police. And really, comparing not being able to be a minister to what happened to this girl is really sickening.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and they get help from Americans in that regard. Are those American preachers who support this given a free pass? We have no problem calling those Christian preachers in Uganda the animals they are and nobody feels they have to throw in some Muslim examples to make the point. Barbarians are Barbarians and yet every single one of these threads brings out the moral relativists who insist one is as bad as the other. And the same way I wouldn't want to be gay in Uganda, I would blow my brains out before I'd live as woman in a Muslim country.
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)which is why this barbarity continues. In Islamic countries, Islam reinforces the resistance to change because the core belief is that Truth is static and unchanging.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)At least in Calvinist and Evangelical circles
snagglepuss
(12,704 posts)God was no longer I-am-what-I-am but Father. God was no longer a jealous and vengeful god but loving. God was no longer incomprehensible but became flesh and God was no longer a single mysterious entity but a trinity. Furthermore Jesus chose not to dictate his words which speaks volumes.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)At least that's what many (Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Calvinists, Mormons, etc..) would say
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Catholicism is but one example.
Personally, I think the batshittery that leads to barbarism is present in all religions - the only difference is that they're getting expressed more today in Islam. But that can change, in some cases very quickly. Hitler was able to use religion as one way to justify the Holocaust - he exploited religious hatred of those "Jesus-murdering" Jews...
d_r
(6,907 posts)Remember, Jesus came upon the mob following the Hebrew law to stone the adulterer's to death, and he said "let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone" and in essence threw that law out. So Christians by definition didn't kill adulterers. So Christians didn't "used to behave this way." I'm not arguing the misogynistic piece, just this specific example. The brutal murder of Hypatia wasn't a response to adultry it was the result of mob mentality during a time of political unrest (I'm not justifying that of course, just saying it isn't the same).
Taverner
(55,476 posts)The Soviet Union constitution guaranteed freedom of speech too...
d_r
(6,907 posts)if christians follow the teachings of Jesus, that is vwhat he taught. thats the key to christianity and the difference in abrahamic religions. do all christians follow. understand. believe i. the teachings of Jesus? clearly not of course. but one can not blame a philosophy for a behavior that the philosophy itself is cleary against. in this particular example chritianity clearly does not endorse murder of adulterers. not that the raped girl was an adulterer to any reasonable person but that was the rationaole behind vit. islam does not have Jesus to temper the abrahamic tradition. and honestly he was a pretty nice guy despite how somke of his followers may act.
mike_c
(36,281 posts)Religion = insanity.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)It's about ONE religion of which I'm aware and that's Fundamentalist Islam
You know and I know it. If you want to keep playing politically correct footsie,
fine, but don't expect the rest of us to play along with you. .
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)The girl in this story died because her beating was so severe that the breakdown of her muscles (the same process that occurs in meat tenderizing) overwhelmed her kidneys. Her sister barely survived. Their great sin? They weren't doing well at their spelling assignment.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)One quick Google search, just on the front page.
http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/SeanPaddock.html
http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2010/02/christian-parents-biblically-beat-child-to-death-for-mispronouncing-word/
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/dec/03/mother-stepfather-arrested-beating-death-7-year-ol/
whathehell
(29,067 posts)unlike in Islamic Fundamentalist countries, where it's "accepted" as "part of the culture"
and/or Sharia law.
aristocles
(594 posts)True for all religions, without exception.
ohiosmith
(24,262 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Child's Death Sheds Light on Biblical Disciplinary Teachings
That same year, 7-year-old Lydia Schatz of Paradise, Calif., was "whipped" to death with rubber tubing for mispronouncing a word during a homeschooling lesson. She died from severe tissue damage and her sister had to be hospitalized.
cali
(114,904 posts)and please read the entire horrifying article linked. The statistics are gruesome.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I was just pointing out that they sometimes do.
I knew how badly some Muslim women are treated back in the sixties, my mother had a book about the abusive treatment of women under Islam and I read it when I was about fourteen or so, this is hardly news to me.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)whether it's an anomaly or a pattern of the culture. Clearly
this is more common in Islam.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)how governments deal with it. Does the US government (or any western gov for that matter) turn the other way when stuff like this happens (the rare times it does) or do they punish the religious person involved? In this case, you can be sure the iman is still strutting around and making judgements; The difference is how the societies deal with it and we all know the very un-pc answer to that.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)and, no, of course they don't "turn the other way"...It's known
as 21st Century civilization, not 10th century barbarism.
I'm so tired of the pc bullshit.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)Hundreds of bystanders, including many children, watched and some took photographs of Wednesday's brutal slaying. Grisly pictures were published on the front pages of the country's biggest circulating newspapers, The National and Post-Courier, while the prime minister, police and diplomats condemned the killing.
In rural Papua New Guinea, witchcraft is often blamed for unexplained misfortunes. Sorcery has traditionally been countered by sorcery, but retaliations have become increasingly violent in recent years.
The death was the first sorcery-related murder in Papua New Guinea in a year, national police spokesman Dominic Kakas said.
Kepari Leniata, a 20-year-old mother, had been accused of sorcery by relatives of a 6-year-old boy who died in the hospital the day before.
She was tortured with a hot iron rod, bound, doused in gasoline, then set alight on a pile of car tires and trash in the Western Highlands provincial capital of Mount Hagen, Kakas said.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130208/NEWS07/130208011/Accused-witch-burned-alive-in-Papua-New-Guinea
whathehell
(29,067 posts)crowd are generalizing themselves into absurdity trying to avoid
the obvious. They're not comfortable hating on any religion but
Christianity, so this kind of thing throws them into a real
crisis of political correctness.
Response to whathehell (Reply #34)
AlbertCat This message was self-deleted by its author.
JI7
(89,252 posts)who brought up the china knife attack as reason to oppose any gun control.
HomeboyHombre
(46 posts)Libs have to be tolerant of all religions except the one most Americans (those who claim to be religious anyway) identify with.
WTF?
I think we can be tolerant of religion in general but attack the outrages done in the name of religion--like Christian gay bashers for instance. Yes, they should be called out, of course and with the strongest language, but the religion itself need not be held up to ridicule in the process.
It's like saying that all Catholics are part of the pedophilia scandal. It's an unfair overgeneralization.
Nevertheless, the abuse is outrageous and illegal and the guilty need to be held to account.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)to be emerging.
Welcome to DU, by the way.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts) AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)"The Supreme Court also outlawed fatwas a decade ago, but human rights monitors have documented more than 500 cases of women in those 10 years who were punished through a religious ruling. And few who have issued such rulings have been charged."
Well they aren't "legally whipping 14-year-olds to death all the time" in Bangladesh! It's illegal. And ~50 cases (not all lashing to death) a year, or less than 1 a week is maybe not "all the time".... but still 50 too many.
Just because rational people have forced Christians to pick and choose more and throw out their most awful crap doesn't mean that it ain't in there. Had rational sensible people not stepped in, we'd still be burning witches. Ask Christine O'Donnell.
cali
(114,904 posts)50 a year IS on a regular basis. And it is, to a significant degree, tolerated.
I don't think Christianity was so much forced to change as internal changes liberal schools of thought came, in time, to bring marked influence. Furthermore, the Enlightenment changed the trajectory of church and state.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that in your community. 1 girl a week getting beaten to death - I do consider that "all the time".
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)But it's still illegal.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)Some of us certainly, but not most of us.
cliffordu
(30,994 posts)THEY should all be beaten to death.
Some things are beyond the pale.
These 'adults' whipped a child to death.
They have no souls.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)way to launch them, I bet they would.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)What the hell is wrong with people. I gotta get away from DU for a while, I think, or trash more forums.
jsr
(7,712 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)This child was brutally raped and then punished for that by being murdered.
The article says Sharia is illegal in Bangladesh. The Imam fuckwad the rapist pig fuckwad and everyone else who took place in this grotesque business, need to be punished severely by the state. Yes, I said punished. A message needs to be sent by the state that this will not be tolerated.
from the linked article in the OP:
Many months later on a winter night, as Hena's sister Alya told it, Hena was walking from her room to an outdoor toilet when Mahbub Khan gagged her with cloth, forced her behind nearby shrubbery and beat and raped her.
Hena struggled to escape, Alya told CNN. Mahbub Khan's wife heard Hena's muffled screams and when she found Hena with her husband, she dragged the teenage girl back to her hut, beat her and trampled her on the floor.
The next day, the village elders met to discuss the case at Mahbub Khan's house, Alya said. The imam pronounced his fatwa. Khan and Hena were found guilty of an illicit relationship. Her punishment under sharia or Islamic law was 101 lashes; his 201.
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)is for the family to have the imam assassinated.
Drale
(7,932 posts)dragged into the village square, shaved (I'm assuming they follow the no shaving part as many Muslims not just crazy ones do) and banished into the wilds. Thats they way it needs to be done, death is not enough for evil men like this, they must be humiliated.
Bake
(21,977 posts)Banish him to the wilds and the beard will grow back. He might forage for food. He might survive.
Bake
Drale
(7,932 posts)and that the rest of his life in miserable. Death is to clean and to easy, living in the wilds naked with little to no training how to forage for food. Maybe brand him so others know he is an outcast.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...and force him to listen to endless hours of "The Village People."
LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)Do like the Indians would do. Or some I've heard. tie them naked to 4 stakes out in the desert with wet leather thongs. Do the same around his nutbag. Cover him with sticky sweet stuff all over him if there is anything out there that would be attracted and slowly kill him.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)RKP5637
(67,111 posts)
whathehell
(29,067 posts)Oh well..I guess not everyone's blessed with the stones to call out pc bullshit when they see it. 
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)Hulk Smash
(51 posts)yourout
(7,531 posts)
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)dared to harm her...
budkin
(6,703 posts)
polly7
(20,582 posts)I hope there's a hell so they can rot in it forever.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)They would be doing the same if given half the chance.
This guy probably got caught raping this girl and then proclaimed she was a temptress.
Mother Fucking back wards ass holes.
Bake
(21,977 posts)I know lots of fundie Christians. They would be horrified at this. I don't want them running the government as a theocracy, because I don't trust any theocracy. But your statement is a bit much.
Bake
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Fundamentalists are by nature intolerant of others, and throughout all of human history have no problem killing those that don't agree with them.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)Fundamentalism has always been able to tolerate people who don't toe the line 100% NOT!!!
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I take a back seat to nobody when it comes to my disdain for Christian fundamentalists and their attitudes on women. Unless you have some evidence of your ridiculous statement, I'll just chalk it up to the moral relativism that seems to keep some liberals from calling barbarians barbarians without making stupid untrue comparisons.
Bake
(21,977 posts)But that's okay on DU.
Bake
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)There are millions of right-wing fundies here in the U.S. who want to turn our country into their pet theocracy. Some of them want to bring back stoning of gay people, along with all the other Old Testament "justice."
Just watch some of Bryan Fischer's videos on YouTube and you'll see exactly what I mean. They're prevented from murdering people, but give them an inch and they'll become just as savage as those Islamic fundies.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)That was one of the best movie and book I have read. It energized my political nature after it went dormant back in the early 80's. The cynicism that I felt was kicked off and I became more liberal and more outspoken.
Gorp
(716 posts)In my view, that was a married man raping a child, assuming it even happened in the first place. Either way, she wasn't the culprit. He was. It's just disgusting.
JI7
(89,252 posts)
renate
(13,776 posts)I can't find anything online to update this story (it's from 2011). There are plenty of reports from when it happened, but I'm not having any luck finding out whether the rapist, or the imam, ever went to jail. I'm guessing that means the answer is no.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Impractical, but then so is the war on drugs.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)engaging in this kind of thing.
politicat
(9,808 posts)The Puritans had their less than stellar moments, as did the early Anglican Church. Though that was as much politics as faith.
rateyes
(17,438 posts)the perpetrators of this will be in the deepest, darkest part.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)hue
(4,949 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,736 posts)Can you imagine the horror of realizing she was given a death sentence.
Iggo
(47,558 posts)They're killing women.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)The Koran specifies that gays should be executed.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...and keep the prettier ones as sex slaves.
Just like the RC Church did right into the eighties.
Others (good Christians all (just ask them)) did and do it in house. Imprisoning "wayward" daughters, or throwing them to the predators on the street.
JI7
(89,252 posts)crap ?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)islam gets a pass here in a way no other religion does and considering the things done TODAY in the name of islam, it's pretty fucking sickening to watch it get treated like some child having a temper tantrum that just needs love and attention.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Remember the exorcism where some kid suffocated from having a "holy man" sit on her chest?
In that case, the parents helped,....to hold her down....
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)hatred toward women.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It's funny how they feel like EVERYONE somehow insulted God but their own brutality is fine.
raccoon
(31,111 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I guess he just kinda vanished.
cali
(114,904 posts)any town under quasi official auspices. I suggest you read the whole sad, linked article.
False comparisons are truly stupid and ugly.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It was inspired by the same sadistic hysteria that fire and brimstone preachers tap into.
Just look at this crap:
http://egregores.blogspot.com/2012/05/death-by-exorcism-american-style-more.html
People who are religious consider the laws of their god to be superior to the laws of mere mortals.
cali
(114,904 posts)If you read the article you know that.
False equivalency in pursuit of an agenda is so dimwitted and dishonest.
Furthermore, trying to compare the exorcism deaths that you cite, is more bullshit. The vast majority of those are individual and not collective crimes. Many of the perps are severely and persistently mentally ill. There is no quasi official civil/religious imprimatur.
And yes, we have our share of fundy nuts, but they don't have the kind of authority to institute punishments like this.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)When you are hyper-religious you consider the clergy to be the authority figure.
This act was NOT a government act.
Unlike in Saudi Arabia.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)this iman to have been arrested? You know, like he would be in this country?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)You have to remember, the media is going to point out this crap to beat the war drums.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to attack Bangladesh? Gee, I'm so sorry that you apparently feel that news about the treatment of women is only used as a war ploy (with a Democrat in the White House) and not to bring attention to a very, very real problem.
And it's two years later...nothing happened to the iman and the married man escaped after a few lashes. I'm sure they're combing the country looking for him.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)One is to stir up hate for Islam globally and the other is to accuse peacemakers of,...well,....you already know the rest....
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)To not report these stories because "some" people may use the info badly? Should we just ignore that these women live lives as virtual slaves because it makes you uncomfortable? Could you forget what happened to this child?
It's certainly not my fault that it was an iman who inflicted this punishment on a child - take it up with the religious leaders who think women are lesser beings who need to be forced into child marriages and who think holding hands is a death penalty offense.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They can't think their law is the final word.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Civil prosecution works in this country as these deeds are against the law and religious leaders are not given latitude to inflict their insanity on others. What do we do in this case - Bangladesh - where it's only against the law on paper and the imans feel free to ignore it and don't face any penalty whatsoever? You would think the people would rise up but that doesn't seem to be happening - perhaps as a result of women having no rights and many not being able to leave their homes.
But let's just forget all that cuz it makes you feel icky and doesn't allow you to use equivalence with Christians or Jews. We'll sweep it under the rug for all those liberals who just can't stand one religion's adherents being called out for their disgusting behavior....y'know, unless it's Christianity they can bash. Pathetic.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Like, "what if" the Yellowstone Super-volcano wiped out a big chunk of North America and triggered a new ice age and the Westboro Baptist Church used the event to set up shop in the absence of civil authority.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Our constitution forbids it. And really? Using a group of 10 lunatics to make your point when there are tens of millions of people who can get themselves in the same situation as this child did? Trying to use a distraction like this never-gonna-happen situation makes me think you really don't give a shit about what these girls and women go through every single day. In fact, it may be time to run through this thread and see if you even expressed something as minimal as dismay at what happened to this girl or whether you merely tried to change the subject.
Edited to add: As I suspected, not one word against what happened here. Just trying to excuse it by making the moronic claim that this happens all the time with other religions. This is me being totally not surprised.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I don't understand gibberish.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)from the Maldives about a 15 year old rape victim:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21595814
Shall we play "which religion supports this kind of punishment" or can we dispense with the suspense?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Nowhere did I say ALL Muslims. But be honest, would you have to even look up that this was an Islamic island? I sure didn't.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The media is filled with stories to keep the outrage level up.
It still doesn't change the point that this was not a state sponsored act.
It WOULD be in Saudi Arabia.
Then there is Iran where they hang homosexuals.
What I posted is about Christians in the US who have killed kids thinking they were possessed by demons.
We can thank religion for ALL of this death. Is it any wonder more and more people are deciding to turn away from religion?
INCLUDING in the Middle East.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I've long felt it would be a better world without any religion but that doesn't mean all religions are equally bad. My biggest beef is that whenever a story like this comes around this board, it gets swarmed by moral relativists who insist that Christianity is just as bad for women as Islam is and feel free to bring something totally unrelated into the thread in order to distract from the fact that fundamentalist Islam is a curse on women. This does not happen on threads that bash Christianity but I'll be on my guard now - I'll hit as many of those threads as I can in order to do the same thing and I'll continue to do it until the hypocrites cry uncle.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Just look at Punjab and the fundamentalist Sikhs. Parochial doctrine is enforced through fear and often brutality.
Not that Orthodox followers are "superior".
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)one person superior to another, not what they believe in. If you can see what these policies do to women, why do you...not so much defend it but try and distract from the fact that at this moment in history, with over 1 billion Muslims, that those women living under fundamentalist Islam are in the most trouble? We hear these stories daily and I simply don't believe it's because someone in a newsroom is beating the drums of war. Nobody is making this stuff up - 14 year old girls are getting beaten to death and it's something that should have all of us screaming from the rafters. The answer is not to ignore the problem because women are in trouble in other places - the answer is to scream louder.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)What does you knowing some Muslims have to do with anything? You think that's a good reason to ignore what is happening to Muslim women all over the place? Because your friends feel it's personal? That's a piss poor reason to cower under the table and pretend things are just dandy for women in Bangladesh (and other Muslim countries) - because your friends might get their feeling hurt.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)The people that did this are seen my most Muslims as a bunch of hicks. They don't condone it, nor do they think of it as a part of their religion any more than Christians believe Red Lobster serves an abomination.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Are you going to give me a good reason to ignore this is happening or just whine about your friend's hurt feelings? Because frankly, the choice between caring about 14 year olds getting beaten to death and caring about hurt feelings is a fucking no brainer for most people.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They are as outraged as we are. It's not a matter of excusing it out of a sense of tolerance.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That you would rather distract from what happened here than deal with the fact that fundamentalist Islam is a scourge for women? That you'd rather whine about hurt feelings than agree that there are entire countries that treat their women like shit? That you would rather talk about anything else than what is right in front of you? What exactly am I not getting?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Oh yeah,...that's right,....it was you....
Feel free to rave some more at me for doing what you think I'm doing,...if you find it therapeutic.
Keep in mind that this is three days now that you have been doing it.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)3 days. Did you not speak about your Muslim friends whose feelings are hurt because they don't agree with the imans and don't like getting lumped in with them (which nobody is doing)? Did you forget what you wrote so quickly? You know what, I'd like you to point to any post you have made on a thread bashing Christianity that it's not fair to lump all Christians in with the whackos. Then you may have a shred of credibility on this issue.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I never said their feeling are hurt. I said they were as outraged by this crap as much as we are. They are ALSO pissed off at these people because IDIOTS make the claim that this is part of their religion. It's not.
Got it? (probably not)
Reminder: Cassius Clay got out of serving in Vietnam because it was against his religion to kill even if the State orders you to during a time of war.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to me that the vast majority of Muslims don't adhere to sharia law. What you need to realize that with a billion people, even 1% of lunatics is an whole shitload of lunatics. And in some countries, they're actually voted into office. Asking Americans to turn a blind eye to that on top of the treatment of women in these countries is asking too much and I will scream it from the rafters every time there is a story such as the one that started this thread. Would you at least admit to the fact these stories are not isolated events and that far too many women are living lives of desperation in the name of Islam?
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Something that is not unique to Islam.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)bastardizes Christianity, these clowns bastardize Islam...but make no mistake, they are Muslims and they have a boatload of support. The same way I don't call all Catholics (or even priests) pedophiles, I don't call all Muslims women hating terrorists.
Why do you feel compelled to go on these kinds of threads and try and change the subject? I don't see you doing the same with Christian bashing threads. Nobody here has the authority to attack any country with military so I'm curious as to why you do what you do.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I'm an atheist and consider ALL of it to be as valid as belief in The Great Pumpkin.
I also see the media making an effort to portray Islam as being a faith of a bunch of primitive savages based on the acts of a fanatic minority that take things out of context.
Christianity could be equally portrayed as such by lifting select articles.
Let's face it. Before 9/11 a majority of Americans never heard of Islam. They were laughing over hypocritical TV preachers having affairs. Most were talking about the differences between Christians and Jews and even among the Christians there were the Baptists, the Catholics, the Evangelicals, the Presbyterians, the Greek Orthodox, etc....even the Amish.
Then 9/11 comes along and Americans discover there is a whole part of the world that is different. "Different" is "bad" by default so the right wing that has been infiltrating their churches for years fed into their fears and told them all kinds of lies about Muslims including the idea that America is a Christian Nation and the Islamic World had declared war on us.
Oh, and look how terrible they are to their women!!!
Meanwhile, things ARE getting better.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)every single day. And I disagree about Islam being a mystery before 9/11...at least not to women who were screaming about the taliban's treatment of women long before 9/11. And like I said, nobody here has the power to send the military anywhere so I truly don't understand the need to change the subject or insist other religions are just as bad.
Maybe it's because I'm a NYer and my city has been attacked twice by fanatical Islamists (and never by Christians), I had a neighbor die in 9/11 and for what? I'm in and surrounded by landmarks all freeking day and now I have to deal with the national guard everywhere, bomb sniffing dogs and cops in riot gear (especially around Jewish and Christian holidays). Our lives were changed forever by fanatics screaming about Allah.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)If that turns out to be true then all that hate towards that part of the world is misplaced.
Or maybe it's easier to keep that hate and just add another on top.
Then again, I guess Oklahoma could hate everyone from New York since Tim McVeigh came from there.
politicat
(9,808 posts)I am Quaker.
I am a feminist.
I am deeply involved in an international social justice project that aims to convince countries to grant political asylum to women and girls from places where they are systematically abused and to get the UN Women's Rights Treaty to be treated as binding.
Hena was not beaten because she's a Muslim. She was not raped because she's Muslim. Her imam did not order her beating because he's Muslim. She was raped and beaten and died because she lives in a culture that does not value women and girls. Her imam made that order because he knows nothing else. Her parents endured that order because they have no alternatives. Her rapist raped her because he knew he would get away with it, and her subjugation gave him a rush of power without significant consequences. Every faith on the planet has devalued women at some point in its history. We used to just endure it because there were no alternatives.
We now have alternatives.
I am deeply weary of half the planet being devalued for no reason other than fear and tradition. This can be changed and can be stopped because it has been done, but bending the arc of history towards justice requires that we care, that we who are comfortable are made less so. War will not bring justice -- it never does.
My pacifism doesn't mean I can stand by and allow these incidents to go unnoticed. If I fail to witness and call attention to injustice, I am equally responsible.
That's why I posted it.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)A place where women can flee a bad situation with the kids.
Imagine if that were available.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)and heartbreaking.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)Raster
(20,998 posts)Humanity's consolation is that if we as a race survive long enough, we will see the desert swallow it's creations and relegate them to the dustbin of history.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Can you really make a comparison between Islam vs Christianity and Judaism (without the dishonesty of going back hundreds of years) in the treatment of women? Where it's tolerated not only in the religious community but also ignored by their governments?
Raster
(20,998 posts)And it isn't just the treatment of women... or gays... or scientists... or heretics or anyone else that dare challenge the religious status quo. The lists are long, very long.
"Can you really make a comparison between Islam vs Christianity and Judaism (without the dishonesty of going back hundreds of years) in the treatment of women?"
Really? Where are the female priests? Where are the female rabbis? Where are the female imams? Where are the female prophets? Where are the female popes? Inherently in ALL of the abrahamic religions, women are second-class citizens, and have held such derided status for as long as those religions have dogged humanity. In every government influenced by those religions, traditionally women have not had the same weight or worth as men.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to compare not being able to be a priest (there are plenty of women rabbis - educate yourself) with what happened to this girl? Sentenced by a religious leader and beaten to death at 14? Seriously?
Raster
(20,998 posts)holders of the priesthood? Of course not. Educate yourself.
Don't look now, but your islamophobia may be showing just a tad. Not all followers of islam believe in or adhere to sharia law. There are moderate, modern, compassionate muslims, just as there are batshit crazy fanatical and archaic christians and jews.
And no, I am not going to seriously compare...it's apples to oranges. However they are all fruit of the same abrahamic tree.
You have a nice day. Shalom.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)that allows me to be disgusted by the treatment of women in places like Bangladesh, I'm totally good with that. And I thought we were past the "they USED to suck" part of the program and are concentrating on the present. Is that too difficult for you to face? That some cultures evolve and some don't and I'm NOT okay with that.
Edited to ask: Are you a woman?
struggle4progress
(118,295 posts)he had raped her, so she may have some issues. Shilpi interrupted Mehbub's rape of Hena -- and dragged Hena back to her house, where Shilpi (together with two of her female relatives, Morsheda and Jahanara) beat Hena until she was unable to walk. Hena's father finally retrieved her from the Khan house. Shilpi then organized a large group of people, all but two of them Shilpi's relatives, who met in Shilpi's house around midnight to sit in judgment. It was decided that Mehbub and Hena should be beaten with wet knotted cloth: Mehbub was to be beaten by his own father, and (miraculously!) Mehbub immediately escaped --whereas Hena was to be beaten by Shilpi's sister-in-law Monimala and (unsurprisingly) did not escape but was beaten with fatal results
Note that Shilpi and her family had decided to beat Hena, and had administered a first crippling beating, well before the midnight meeting at the Khan's house from which issued the so-called "fatwa"
cali
(114,904 posts)fact. duh.
There are lots of female priests in the Episcopal and Anglican Churches, albeit not in the RC, Greek Orthodox or Russian Orthodox Churches. In fact, the majority of Christian denominations ordain women.
Female Rabbis? Lots and lots of them. But you know this.
and no, in many denominations and in much of Judaism, women are not second class citizens. In fact, they are, in many, LESS second class citizens than in the culture as a whole.
Making shit up, as YOU are doing, is worthy of nothing but correction and contempt.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Islam has been a host to more violence and batshittery... today. The places could easily reverse over time.
Christianity could go batshit and Islam could chill out in as little as a couple decades.
There's nothing special about western religions such as Christianity and Judaism that makes them more civilized - it's still fairy tales about magical sky-daddies, just coming from a different Bronze Age book.
Religion is how Machiavellian bastards manipulate ordinary people into enabling and doing extraordinarily evil things.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)That's how you refer to the differences between Christianity and a religion that is used to be treat women like slaves, where rape victims are tortured, beaten and killed? A matter of degree? And considering both Christianity and Judaism were born in the same place as Islam, neither is a "western" religion and your prediction of religions going backwards is totally absurd. While you're apparently willing to sit back and wait for Islam to "chill", millions of women are getting abused - how lovely of you.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)There's the Quiverfull movement, there's the constant stream of shit coming out of the mouths of Christian fundies about how women must submit to their husbands, there's that whole anti-woman movement known as the pro-life movement. Don't tell me that Christianity is even slightly enlightened on this matter.
And don't even get started with that whole pedophile priest thing - the criminality goes all the way to the very top, to soon-to-be-ex Benedict.
The problem isn't merely with Islam. The problem is religion.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Are the quiverfull people FORCED into having all these babies, to marry these men? We have women in government on all levels, we have women doctors, lawyers, teachers, whatever the fuck they want. I sure didn't have to check with a male relative before I woke up in the apartment that I pay for, didn't have to check with anyone before I left the house to go to work - how many women in Bangladesh can say that?
I'm well aware of the problems in the Catholic church - do let me know when the church gets to hand down a punishment like torturing a child to death and have the local governments stand by and let it happen. Until that happens, your comparisons are ridiculous.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)except that the difference in "degree" is that between life and death,
sort of like that between a rumcake eater
and an alcoholic with the DTs.
Give it a rest. Christianity and Judaism OR the cultures
in which they are largely practiced ARE more "civilized" than to lash a 14 year old
to death on some bs "adultery" charge.
LeftyMom
(49,212 posts)Unless I've missed any stories about Muslims in New York neighborhoods demanding segregated buses or harassing women for riding bikes *gasp* astride *gasp* in shorts *gasp!*
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)who feels perfectly comfortable with comparing harassing women about clothes with BEATING A CHILD TO DEATH and getting away with it? Did the rabbis involved sentence these bicycle riding women to beatings and death? Another ridiculous comparison. In Israel women are welcome in the military in the universities, in any profession they wish. Is that true in Saudi Arabia, in Bangladesh? Stop with these ridiculous comparisons - they do nothing to further your argument.
After this thread, I'm now compelled to visit every single Christian/Jewish bashing thread and make sure I bring up the latest atrocity committed in the name of Islam - if I have to go back more than 3 days to find one, I'll be shocked. Because that's what happens on this board time and time again - these stories bring out every single moral relativist who insist Islam is just fine the way it is and by the way, look at how awful Christians/Jews are. The comparisons are ludicrous.
kdmorris
(5,649 posts)But there is no further information about the trials of the men who did this.
That poor girl...
sadbear
(4,340 posts)Nothing's going to change until they want it to change.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Not that this shouldn't be publicized or anything, just wondering.
politicat
(9,808 posts)I'd never heard of it, which is tragic. I watch these sorts of cases closely because they're datapoints for human rights demography. (Demographics are my thing.)
The fact that it didn't ping when it happened is a datapoint in and of itself. It means that two years ago, the world didn't care as much about how girls are treated. Now, there's awareness, and keeping these sorts of stories in the media and in consciousness keeps awareness and pressure on the UN, and us and the people who make decisions in other countries.
I posted it because it bothered me that the story slipped by us when it happened, and because it pinged and vanished, and because it's part of a larger pattern.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)And thank you for posting it.
HomeboyHombre
(46 posts)Sick, sick world.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)as posters try to one-up each other in anti-religion rhetoric about America.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts) 
Quantess
(27,630 posts)not hindu, not buddhism, not even christian.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)
RIP
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Anything close to "honor killing" is a legitimate outrage, but the 'pugs help perpetuate them by using "concern" about the issue as rhetoric to justify invasions and the arming of various crazyheads.
Nice work, guys.
The blood of this young girl is on YOUR hands too.
MelungeonWoman
(502 posts)Is there any other source for this story or any follow up? The Imam isn't named, a cursury Google search of the parents turn up nothing. Is this a bullshit story meant to foment anti-muslim sentiment?
politicat
(9,808 posts)BBC reported when the doctors who falsified the autopsy were disciplined:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12883165
So thanks for the concern, but that's on the first page on the google search.
Zax2me
(2,515 posts)Whenever there is a negative - as is obviously this case - Muslim story?
Yea - we get it - bad things happen in all religions.
The fact is however that no religion gets 'defended' with the broad religion brush like Islam.
I'm not sure why - maybe many oppose Christianity on such a level that they stretch to tie any religious negative story to Christianity. No matter how absurd the stretch may be.
It could be that some are just afraid Muslims will be stereo-typed.
Probably a combination of these and other factors.